Total Posts:69|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Racial Double Standard?

inferno
Posts: 10,628
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/29/2012 4:18:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/29/2012 3:27:11 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I found this story and wrote up a blog post about it.

I want you to read it and discuss.

The Trayvon Martin case has shown a clear racial standard in America...

http://conservativepolitico.blogspot.com...

Yes there is. It comes from the unresolved issues from days past. We keep sweeping this under the rug. Just like we did when Obama was elected.
Racism is over ! Yaaaaay. Not even close.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/29/2012 4:30:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/29/2012 4:18:51 PM, inferno wrote:
At 3/29/2012 3:27:11 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I found this story and wrote up a blog post about it.

I want you to read it and discuss.

The Trayvon Martin case has shown a clear racial standard in America...

http://conservativepolitico.blogspot.com...

Yes there is. It comes from the unresolved issues from days past.

It's not even days past, our govt. perpetuates racism as a tool in warfare.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
inferno
Posts: 10,628
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/29/2012 4:31:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/29/2012 4:30:25 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/29/2012 4:18:51 PM, inferno wrote:
At 3/29/2012 3:27:11 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I found this story and wrote up a blog post about it.

I want you to read it and discuss.

The Trayvon Martin case has shown a clear racial standard in America...

http://conservativepolitico.blogspot.com...

Yes there is. It comes from the unresolved issues from days past.

It's not even days past, our govt. perpetuates racism as a tool in warfare.

That is why we are being bombarded with non stop images in the media about this case. It is about dividing us and conquering humanity to death.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/29/2012 7:19:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
So, let me get this straight.

Based on some random case you pulled out of the sea of similar cases over the last decade, which include the full color spectrum of cultures and ethnicities, you're averring that this country is actually racist against hispanic men, and in general support of black youth.

Amirite?
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/29/2012 8:18:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
All races are rasist. People who consider thenselves an individual are not. I consider my self an individual. No one speaks for me except me. All people who identify themselves as being part of a race are by the very definition a racist. Because only certain people can be part of their race. An individual on the other hand allows anyone to be an indivdual.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/29/2012 8:19:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yeah, there is a double standard....one group is part of the majority and in charge of societies power structure, while the other is an minority who were enslaved until around 150 years ago, gained civil rights rights less than 60 years ago and had little to no access to high-skilled professions (when competing with whites) until thirty or forty years ago.

We KNOW there's been racial discrimination in the police and political system in the past. It's been declining, but unless you're one of those "Obama means we're equal" sorts, it sure as heck isn't gone.

It's also pretty well documented the media coverage of minorities are disproportionately negative compared to

I'm always amazed at this whole "my god, why aren't they treating us majority members like they treat the minority members. Where's our "white pride" student group, our "rich person scholarship," or "Christian appreciation month?""

I'd be ecstatic if tomorrow Americans stopped acknowledging race exists and all forms of discrimination, conscious or subliminally influence. I'd love it if we lived in a world where being black has no negative social consequences compared to whites (Freakonomics has a good example where employers, given the same resume with different names, overwhelmingly reject "black" names (Latisha, Jamal, etc) versus "white" names (John, David, Robert).)

But that isn't the case. While that doesn't mean we need something like affirmative action, it DOES mean we have to acknowledge that the double standard is a reflection of real social consequences.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/29/2012 8:31:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/29/2012 3:27:11 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I found this story and wrote up a blog post about it.

I want you to read it and discuss.

The Trayvon Martin case has shown a clear racial standard in America...

http://conservativepolitico.blogspot.com...

The Fool:
I completely agree that there is a huge double standard when it comes to minority and hate or hate crimes. They seem to get away with murder. ;) Metaphorically speaking. But they can be hate full and openly slanderous. And it nothing is even mention.

But alas this case you have here, it a hasty generalization, because there is nothing that indicates that it is more than just a typical general crime. Just because the victims and criminal are different race doesn't mean it was based on race. E.g. O.J. murdered his wife who was white but it was a crime of passion not because of her colour. This article is completely raciest towards blacks. I can even believe that they call the killer black and yet they call the victims British. WTF? British isn' t a race. They don't even mention if the victims where even white or any colour for that matter. Its Racist intention is exposed by shameless presupposition that if you are black you are not a Briton. That's like saying black people in America are not American because they are Black, or black from any nation other than Africa. I mean you have to be racist to not even notice the huge problem. There is no way a non-racist is going to let that slip by. It is aimed at a Racist audience.

The fool looks at conservative politico :o

Lastly, the mention of black panthers is so ridiculous, out-dated and completely unrelated. And then they mention Obama, out of nowhere!!??? With obviously the only intent is to give a sense of connection by association. (Which is logical fallacy by the way) Its target is obvious, the Ignorant and racist reader. Not even a smart racist would agree with that connection.

Come on ConservativePolitico your better than that. This is bullsh!t!
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/29/2012 10:24:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yeah, the black perp is in jail for life and the one who killed a black person is still walking free. There is the double standard you were talking about.

http://www.cbsnews.com...

http://www.cbsnews.com...

http://www.tampabay.com...
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/29/2012 10:59:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/29/2012 10:24:54 PM, Oryus wrote:
Yeah, the black perp is in jail for life and the one who killed a black person is still walking free. There is the double standard you were talking about.

http://www.cbsnews.com...

http://www.cbsnews.com...

http://www.tampabay.com...

The Fool: out of all people, who talk about anicdotal incedences. ;)
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/29/2012 11:02:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/29/2012 10:59:49 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 3/29/2012 10:24:54 PM, Oryus wrote:
Yeah, the black perp is in jail for life and the one who killed a black person is still walking free. There is the double standard you were talking about.

http://www.cbsnews.com...

http://www.cbsnews.com...

http://www.tampabay.com...

The Fool: must be a race wide conspiricy to get the power relations. Love em
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/30/2012 1:43:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/29/2012 10:59:49 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 3/29/2012 10:24:54 PM, Oryus wrote:
Yeah, the black perp is in jail for life and the one who killed a black person is still walking free. There is the double standard you were talking about.

http://www.cbsnews.com...

http://www.cbsnews.com...

http://www.tampabay.com...

The Fool: out of all people, who talk about anicdotal incedences. ;)

Indeed, this whole thread is anecdotal. Point?
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/30/2012 1:47:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/29/2012 11:02:29 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 3/29/2012 10:59:49 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 3/29/2012 10:24:54 PM, Oryus wrote:
Yeah, the black perp is in jail for life and the one who killed a black person is still walking free. There is the double standard you were talking about.

http://www.cbsnews.com...

http://www.cbsnews.com...

http://www.tampabay.com...

The Fool: must be a race wide conspiricy to get the power relations. Love em

The fool would say that.

AND I KNOW! Every phenomena is actually just the tip of the iceberg of a huge planned secret conspiracy. There could be no reasonable explanation whatsoever.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/30/2012 1:51:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/29/2012 11:02:29 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 3/29/2012 10:59:49 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 3/29/2012 10:24:54 PM, Oryus wrote:
Yeah, the black perp is in jail for life and the one who killed a black person is still walking free. There is the double standard you were talking about.

http://www.cbsnews.com...

http://www.cbsnews.com...

http://www.tampabay.com...

The Fool: must be a race wide conspiricy to get the power relations. Love em

I also want to express how incredibly threatened I am by your astute observations. There are absolutely no holes in your theory at all. There is almost no way you could be wrong. Truly frightening. I'm shaking in my little feminist combat boots.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/30/2012 3:07:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/29/2012 8:18:46 PM, sadolite wrote:
All races are rasist. People who consider thenselves an individual are not. I consider my self an individual. No one speaks for me except me. All people who identify themselves as being part of a race are by the very definition a racist. Because only certain people can be part of their race. An individual on the other hand allows anyone to be an indivdual.

One's tribal identity, i.e., one's race or nationality, are indeed small and divisive identities that prevent us from intuitively apprehending and optimally actualizing the social and spiritual solidarity of our society, as well as our ecological solidarity, as it were, with the rest of the life on our planet. However, the word "racism" connotes more that merely being ensconced in a tribal identity; rather, it refers to an attitude of racial conceit, racial jingoism, and an antipathy to the members of other ethnic groups. But more penetratingly, critical-minded social thinkers recognize that racism is the structured-into-society socioeconomic imbalance of power favoring and amounting to the hegemony of one racial group over another. Racism as an attitude and belief is in large part just a socio-psychological byproduct of and an attempt to rationalize such a race-based power differential.

Well, in short, not everyone who hews to a racial identity suffers from mental attitudes of superiority and hatred that rise to the level of racism. And certainly those who harbor some righteous racial resentment, i.e., people of color who've been the victims of racial injustice, are not in a privileged position to pay racism back with racism, i.e., to visit racial dominance on anyone. In other words, the reverse racism that angry middle-aged white men whine about is largely a figment of their disgruntled, scapegoating minds. Racism is still predominantly a sin of the dominant demographic, i.e., folks of the Caucasian persuasion, and of the inherent power dynamics and structure of our society. To assert that all races are racist is simply a facile and faux-broad-minded way of trying to mitigate the responsibility of whites for the racial issues that our society still suffers from.

As for individualism, well, to think of oneself as an atomized individual is also not too conducive to a larger and spiritual concept of one's identity that makes for a deep sense of human solidarity and community. No, egoism is as divisive as racism and certainly not the ticket to a happy holistic society. The ticket, rather, is for us all to cultivate and grow in a consciousness of the fundamental interdependence of life and existence. A consciousness that leaves behind both racism and egoism on the dustbin of benighted mentalities. Only this will usher in a new zeitgeist of togetherness.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/30/2012 3:10:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
A typo correction, the underlined word below should of course be "than".

"... However, the word "racism" connotes more that merely being ensconced in a tribal identity; ..."
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/1/2012 6:17:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well, I'm glad to see that apparently no one here disagrees with my above-posted thoughts.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/1/2012 8:29:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
We could argue for a while on whether or not race-based affirmative action is justified. I believe that race shouldn't be considered at all in employment or college admissions. If you want to help the needy, look at socioeconomic status, not race. Why favor middle-class or upper-class black kids over poor white kids, or even poor black kids over poor white kids, or middle-class black kids over middle-class white kids?
The_Fool_on-The-Hill
Posts: 15
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/1/2012 9:08:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/30/2012 1:51:19 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 3/29/2012 11:02:29 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 3/29/2012 10:59:49 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 3/29/2012 10:24:54 PM, Oryus wrote:
Yeah, the black perp is in jail for life and the one who killed a black person is still walking free. There is the double standard you were talking about.

http://www.cbsnews.com...

http://www.cbsnews.com...

http://www.tampabay.com...

The Fool: must be a race wide conspiricy to get the power relations. Love em

I also want to express how incredibly threatened I am by your astute observations. There are absolutely no holes in your theory at all. There is almost no way you could be wrong. Truly frightening. I'm shaking in my little feminist combat boots.

no I wasn't going that far with it.. Why are you even saying that?
The_Fool_on-The-Hill
Posts: 15
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/1/2012 9:09:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/1/2012 9:08:31 PM, The_Fool_on-The-Hill wrote:
At 3/30/2012 1:51:19 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 3/29/2012 11:02:29 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 3/29/2012 10:59:49 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 3/29/2012 10:24:54 PM, Oryus wrote:
Yeah, the black perp is in jail for life and the one who killed a black person is still walking free. There is the double standard you were talking about.

http://www.cbsnews.com...

http://www.cbsnews.com...

http://www.tampabay.com...

The Fool: must be a race wide conspiricy to get the power relations. Love em

I also want to express how incredibly threatened I am by your astute observations. There are absolutely no holes in your theory at all. There is almost no way you could be wrong. Truly frightening. I'm shaking in my little feminist combat boots.

no I wasn't going that far with it.. Why are you even saying that?

How did you go from race to feminism?
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2012 6:08:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/1/2012 9:09:37 PM, The_Fool_on-The-Hill wrote:
At 4/1/2012 9:08:31 PM, The_Fool_on-The-Hill wrote:
At 3/30/2012 1:51:19 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 3/29/2012 11:02:29 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 3/29/2012 10:59:49 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 3/29/2012 10:24:54 PM, Oryus wrote:
Yeah, the black perp is in jail for life and the one who killed a black person is still walking free. There is the double standard you were talking about.

http://www.cbsnews.com...

http://www.cbsnews.com...

http://www.tampabay.com...

The Fool: must be a race wide conspiricy to get the power relations. Love em

I also want to express how incredibly threatened I am by your astute observations. There are absolutely no holes in your theory at all. There is almost no way you could be wrong. Truly frightening. I'm shaking in my little feminist combat boots.

no I wasn't going that far with it.. Why are you even saying that?

How did you go from race to feminism?

Because sarcasm is fun. And also, you are extending the straw man "YOU BELIEVE IN A MASS CONSPIRACY" to this thread. But I don't. On either front.

Question: How did you see the basic sentiment- "there is a problem here which has to do with racism" but read it as: "THERE IS A MASS FVCKING CONSPIRACY HAVING TO DO WITH POWER RELATIONS." Stop it. It's stupid and it's annoying. And you have a similar point to make about feminism. You see the sentiment "There is a problem here that has to do with sexism" but you read it as: "THERE IS A MASS FVCKING CONSPIRACY, OMG GUYZ." The only person I've seen on DDO who honestly says that they believe in a conspiracy theory is inferno. Recognize.

On a serious note, if you would like to actually discuss feminism OR the representation of black convicts and victims in the media as well as their treatment by the American court system without making snide "CONSPIRACY THEORISTS" accusations and spouting buzz phrases like "power relations" and the like, that would be just fine. If not, you will continue to hear sarcasm from me when you reply to my comments in this way. So don't be so shocked next time. Nobody gets to be a smarta$$ without the potential consequence of retaliation- that includes The Fool.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2012 6:09:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/1/2012 9:10:14 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
*clicks on link*
*sees "Is Obama really American?" title*
*closes out of tab*

*like*
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/3/2012 5:57:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/1/2012 8:21:53 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
The first two paragraphs are incorrect, but the last paragraph seems quite accurate.

Would you perhaps care to identify the specific statements in the first two paragraphs that you deem to be "incorrect", and share your reasons for pronouncing such a categorically condemnatory verdict upon them?
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/3/2012 6:36:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/1/2012 8:29:20 PM, mongeese wrote:
We could argue for a while on whether or not race-based affirmative action is justified. I believe that race shouldn't be considered at all in employment or college admissions. If you want to help the needy, look at socioeconomic status, not race. Why favor middle-class or upper-class black kids over poor white kids, or even poor black kids over poor white kids, or middle-class black kids over middle-class white kids?

Thanks to the reality of a capitalist socioeconomic power structure with a predominantly Caucasoid ruling class that trickles down privilege and power to whites, well, blacks and other people of color are never truly competing on a level playing field for job and educational opportunities in our society. Ergo, race-based affirmative action laws and programs are most certainly justified and necessary to countervail against the endemic racial injustice, i.e., the color-unblind socioeconomic injustice of our capitalist system. Sorry, but your superficially rational argument designed to keep one's head stuck ostrich-fashion in the sand about racism founders upon the quite manifest and tangible actuality that the socioeconomic power asymmetry of our societal status quo naturally translates into a racial power asymmetry that of course unfairly favors whites and disenfranchises minorities. My advice to you is to tear yourself away from the writings of von Mises and Hayek, and better acquaint yourself with the egregious empirical reality of our capitalist society.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/3/2012 11:41:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/3/2012 6:36:25 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 4/1/2012 8:29:20 PM, mongeese wrote:
We could argue for a while on whether or not race-based affirmative action is justified. I believe that race shouldn't be considered at all in employment or college admissions. If you want to help the needy, look at socioeconomic status, not race. Why favor middle-class or upper-class black kids over poor white kids, or even poor black kids over poor white kids, or middle-class black kids over middle-class white kids?

Thanks to the reality of a capitalist socioeconomic power structure with a predominantly Caucasoid ruling class that trickles down privilege and power to whites, well, blacks and other people of color are never truly competing on a level playing field for job and educational opportunities in our society.

Why do you group people by race? I would think class would be more important in this case. You can't generalize that all "blacks and other people of color" are doing poorer than all whites. I would think that Barack Obama, Herman Cain, Oprah Winfrey, and others are doing better off than 99% of Americans, and yet you think they aren't on an even playing field? The "Caucasoid" ruling class doesn't benefit all Caucasoids; it benefits all memers of the ruling class. Race doesn't play a part in it, period.

Ergo, race-based affirmative action laws and programs are most certainly justified and necessary to countervail against the endemic racial injustice, i.e., the color-unblind socioeconomic injustice of our capitalist system.

The economy does not discriminate by race. A poor white man is no better off than a poor black man. A rich white man is no better off than a rich black man. If two kids, one white and one black, both grow up in the same ghetto, why should the black kid receive preferential treatment?

Sorry, but your superficially rational argument designed to keep one's head stuck ostrich-fashion in the sand about racism founders upon the quite manifest and tangible actuality that the socioeconomic power asymmetry of our societal status quo naturally translates into a racial power asymmetry that of course unfairly favors whites and disenfranchises minorities.

I am ignorant of nothing. I simply see people as individuals, not racial groups. What difference does it make if you share a race with the majority of any given socioeconomic class? It doesn't harm or benefit you in any way.

My advice to you is to tear yourself away from the writings of von Mises and Hayek, and better acquaint yourself with the egregious empirical reality of our capitalist society.

I don't recall ever reading anything about affirmative action from them. Most of my reading on affirmative action was by Thomas Sowell.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/5/2012 2:23:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/3/2012 11:41:49 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 4/3/2012 6:36:25 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 4/1/2012 8:29:20 PM, mongeese wrote:
We could argue for a while on whether or not race-based affirmative action is justified. I believe that race shouldn't be considered at all in employment or college admissions. If you want to help the needy, look at socioeconomic status, not race. Why favor middle-class or upper-class black kids over poor white kids, or even poor black kids over poor white kids, or middle-class black kids over middle-class white kids?

Thanks to the reality of a capitalist socioeconomic power structure with a predominantly Caucasoid ruling class that trickles down privilege and power to whites, well, blacks and other people of color are never truly competing on a level playing field for job and educational opportunities in our society.

Why do you group people by race?

Because our society by and large and the Oprahs and Herman Cains notwithstancing treats people differently according to their race.

I would think class would be more important in this case. You can't generalize that all "blacks and other people of color" are doing poorer than all whites. I would think that Barack Obama, Herman Cain, Oprah Winfrey, and others are doing better off than 99% of Americans, and yet you think they aren't on an even playing field? The "Caucasoid" ruling class doesn't benefit all Caucasoids; it benefits all memers of the ruling class. Race doesn't play a part in it, period.

Racism is a still highly relevant reality of our capitalist socioeconomic system, and certainly ties in with the inherent socioeconomic inequities of capitalism, ergo we must think not only in terms of class, but in terms of racial demographics and disparities.


Ergo, race-based affirmative action laws and programs are most certainly justified and necessary to countervail against the endemic racial injustice, i.e., the color-unblind socioeconomic injustice of our capitalist system.

The economy does not discriminate by race. A poor white man is no better off than a poor black man. A rich white man is no better off than a rich black man. If two kids, one white and one black, both grow up in the same ghetto, why should the black kid receive preferential treatment?

A black man is much more likely to be poor and unemployed, ergo our socioeconomic system clearly is geared to discriminate and people of color legitimately require affirmative action to countervail against the system's pronounced discriminatory tendencies.

Sorry, but your superficially rational argument designed to keep one's head stuck ostrich-fashion in the sand about racism founders upon the quite manifest and tangible actuality that the socioeconomic power asymmetry of our societal status quo naturally translates into a racial power asymmetry that of course unfairly favors whites and disenfranchises minorities.

I am ignorant of nothing. I simply see people as individuals, not racial groups. What difference does it make if you share a race with the majority of any given socioeconomic class? It doesn't harm or benefit you in any way.

I see people as human beings, not racial groups, but I also recognize that not everyone is so enlightened and inclined, and that our system is not so enlightened and inclined, and that many African Americans, Hispanics, and other minorities are victims of prejudice and xenophobia, and that we all, individually and as a society, have a moral obligation to acknowledge and redress this reprehensible reality. Denial makes us criminally complicit, morally speaking.

My advice to you is to tear yourself away from the writings of von Mises and Hayek, and better acquaint yourself with the egregious empirical reality of our capitalist society.

I don't recall ever reading anything about affirmative action from them. Most of my reading on affirmative action was by Thomas Sowell.

You're a smart fellow, so I must conclude that you're simply being willfully dense here.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/6/2012 12:58:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 2:23:38 AM, charleslb wrote:
At 4/3/2012 11:41:49 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 4/3/2012 6:36:25 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 4/1/2012 8:29:20 PM, mongeese wrote:
We could argue for a while on whether or not race-based affirmative action is justified. I believe that race shouldn't be considered at all in employment or college admissions. If you want to help the needy, look at socioeconomic status, not race. Why favor middle-class or upper-class black kids over poor white kids, or even poor black kids over poor white kids, or middle-class black kids over middle-class white kids?

Thanks to the reality of a capitalist socioeconomic power structure with a predominantly Caucasoid ruling class that trickles down privilege and power to whites, well, blacks and other people of color are never truly competing on a level playing field for job and educational opportunities in our society.

Why do you group people by race?

Because our society by and large and the Oprahs and Herman Cains notwithstancing treats people differently according to their race.

By and large? Seriously? What percentage of Americans do you think will discriminate in hiring or college acceptance decisions based on race? Wait, no, how many do you think will discriminate against minorities? Discrimination in favor of minorities is apparently okay no matter how much discrimination said minority actually received in his or her life.

I would think class would be more important in this case. You can't generalize that all "blacks and other people of color" are doing poorer than all whites. I would think that Barack Obama, Herman Cain, Oprah Winfrey, and others are doing better off than 99% of Americans, and yet you think they aren't on an even playing field? The "Caucasoid" ruling class doesn't benefit all Caucasoids; it benefits all memers of the ruling class. Race doesn't play a part in it, period.

Racism is a still highly relevant reality of our capitalist socioeconomic system, and certainly ties in with the inherent socioeconomic inequities of capitalism, ergo we must think not only in terms of class, but in terms of racial demographics and disparities.

You forget that our socioeconomic system strives for profit, which inherently outweighs racism. Recall that it wasn't business who implemented racism in America; in fact, most businesses opposed having to discriminate against customers and actively fought Jim Crow laws in the court system.

Ergo, race-based affirmative action laws and programs are most certainly justified and necessary to countervail against the endemic racial injustice, i.e., the color-unblind socioeconomic injustice of our capitalist system.

The economy does not discriminate by race. A poor white man is no better off than a poor black man. A rich white man is no better off than a rich black man. If two kids, one white and one black, both grow up in the same ghetto, why should the black kid receive preferential treatment?

A black man is much more likely to be poor and unemployed, ergo our socioeconomic system clearly is geared to discriminate and people of color legitimately require affirmative action to countervail against the system's pronounced discriminatory tendencies.

I recall the brilliant opening of "Racial Facts and Fallacies," a chapter in Sowell's book Economic Facts and Fallacies. He pointed out the vast differences in the backgrounds of different racial groups in America from around the world, and their different cultural experiences, and realized that the real questions is, why would we expect every group to be the same?

Also, just because a black man is more likely to be unemployed than a white man in today's world doesn't mean that the unemployed black man deserves any more pity than he unemployed white man. They're in the same situation; you'd think we'd be able to look past skin color by now.

Sorry, but your superficially rational argument designed to keep one's head stuck ostrich-fashion in the sand about racism founders upon the quite manifest and tangible actuality that the socioeconomic power asymmetry of our societal status quo naturally translates into a racial power asymmetry that of course unfairly favors whites and disenfranchises minorities.

I am ignorant of nothing. I simply see people as individuals, not racial groups. What difference does it make if you share a race with the majority of any given socioeconomic class? It doesn't harm or benefit you in any way.

I see people as human beings, not racial groups, but I also recognize that not everyone is so enlightened and inclined, and that our system is not so enlightened and inclined, and that many African Americans, Hispanics, and other minorities are victims of prejudice and xenophobia, and that we all, individually and as a society, have a moral obligation to acknowledge and redress this reprehensible reality. Denial makes us criminally complicit, morally speaking.

You exaggerate the problem, and in doing so create new problems.

My advice to you is to tear yourself away from the writings of von Mises and Hayek, and better acquaint yourself with the egregious empirical reality of our capitalist society.

I don't recall ever reading anything about affirmative action from them. Most of my reading on affirmative action was by Thomas Sowell.

You're a smart fellow, so I must conclude that you're simply being willfully dense here.

Is Sowell willfully dense, then, or what?
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/6/2012 10:26:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Discrimination against minorities is still occurring. As an Indian, I had to defeat my Caucasian peers by approximately 200 SAT points just be admitted into the same Ivy League school.