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Conformism

Kleptin
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8/3/2009 10:36:53 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
An outgrowth of something that popped into my head responding to a debate about Hot Topic.

I personally feel that the worst type of Conformity is visible in the people who have a severe obsession with nonconformity. There are people who legitimately express themselves in original ways and then there are people who express themselves in ways that society has pre-recorded in their brains.

Wearing black, wearing leather, metal chains, metal studs and spikes, just to name a few things that irk me. And that's just clothing.

It's one thing to look around and see that people are buying into a trend. It's another to see people buying into a trend with the assumption that they are being original, thinking outside of the box, expressing their identities, so on and so forth, when they are really being sold mass-marketed nonconformity in the form of music and clothes >.>

I would rather conform than be one of these people. At least I wouldn't be delusional.

Responses?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Volkov
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8/3/2009 11:02:36 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
You're very right when you say that non-conformism is really just a subtle form of conformity, one that advertisers exploit to great effect. Most don't realize it because it is marketed as "different," due to the overabundance of what is considered "normal." I actually have the idea that advertisers purposely promote "normality" so much in order to enhance their "different" ideas.

But, the question is, why do humans do this? The easy answer is that individuals want to make a statement with what they wear, and since companies are the ones that provide the clothes in which you can make your statement, and because those clothes are mass-produced, your statement becomes the statement of many others. It is a subtle change form individualism to collectivism, without the individual realizing until much later.

But, the more complex answer is that our species is one that espouses individuality while at the same time promoting collective society.
For humans that are well-adjusted, being individual says that they can prove themselves to be above the fray, something that is important when looking for relationships or trying to gain leadership. But, if we're too different, then we'll be cut off from the rest of our species, something that does not help forward the cause of relationships or social support/safety.
So, what happens is that individuals will have their individual tricks, and they'll try their best to seem different, interesting, exciting - but they won't try to go too far, because they know they'll be shunned if they're too different.

So, by being "non-conformist," they're showing off their individuality while keeping in touch with society. It works out, at least until it becomes too popular, which is the case now with the old "goth" look - dark clothes, dark hair, etc. A good portion of teenagers now subscribe to this style, and it is starting to become less popular, as more and more people are trying new things to seem even different, like dying your hair pink, for instance (though that is becoming increasing popular as well).

It is just how our society moves on. We've done this since our species attained our complex social patterns.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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8/3/2009 11:06:43 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
A great scene I watched in house was this:

A guy goes to house for an interview. He claims n0n-conformity and house asks what is on his forearm. he shows him a Chinese tattoo.

House then explains how he is a conformist as pretty much every "rad" school kid has a Chinese tattoo, and that the real nonconformists are the Asian kids reading in the library and don't care what people say about them.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
patsox834
Posts: 406
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8/3/2009 11:54:38 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/3/2009 11:06:43 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
A great scene I watched in house was this:

A guy goes to house for an interview. He claims n0n-conformity and house asks what is on his forearm. he shows him a Chinese tattoo.

House then explains how he is a conformist as pretty much every "rad" school kid has a Chinese tattoo, and that the real nonconformists are the Asian kids reading in the library and don't care what people say about them.

Ha, yeah, he than goes on to say that the Asian kid is likely in the library because of parental pressure.

...I've watched a lot of House in my day.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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8/3/2009 12:02:34 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/3/2009 11:54:38 AM, patsox834 wrote:
At 8/3/2009 11:06:43 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
A great scene I watched in house was this:

A guy goes to house for an interview. He claims n0n-conformity and house asks what is on his forearm. he shows him a Chinese tattoo.

House then explains how he is a conformist as pretty much every "rad" school kid has a Chinese tattoo, and that the real nonconformists are the Asian kids reading in the library and don't care what people say about them.

Ha, yeah, he than goes on to say that the Asian kid is likely in the library because of parental pressure.

...I've watched a lot of House in my day.

Of course, respectable Asian kid, does the laundry.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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8/3/2009 12:05:30 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
"The Merchants of Cool" is a documentary that goes over exactly this topic. It's free and you can watch it online at http://www.pbs.org...

I just ignore conformism, and I show that to everyone I talk with. Are they talking about how they got the latest tickets to whatever concert? I stay silent. Are they talking about how they're being unconformist by wearing pink? I stay silent.

Are they talking about how it's a good idea to do X or Y?

Then I start a conversation. Everyone around me knows me as a debater - which is an unfortunate result of me taking two years of forensics and that any conflict is termed a "debate" - but in any case, I never have to deal with conformism/nonconformism.

Because it doesn't want to deal with me :D
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
MTGandP
Posts: 702
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8/3/2009 5:58:12 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/3/2009 12:05:30 PM, Rezzealaux wrote:
"The Merchants of Cool" is a documentary that goes over exactly this topic. It's free and you can watch it online at http://www.pbs.org...
Good movie.
I just ignore conformism, and I show that to everyone I talk with. Are they talking about how they got the latest tickets to whatever concert? I stay silent. Are they talking about how they're being unconformist by wearing pink? I stay silent.

Are they talking about how it's a good idea to do X or Y?

Then I start a conversation. Everyone around me knows me as a debater - which is an unfortunate result of me taking two years of forensics and that any conflict is termed a "debate" - but in any case, I never have to deal with conformism/nonconformism.

Because it doesn't want to deal with me :D

That's the problem with being a debater. No one wants to debate you. I try to bring up debates in real life and in almost never works. I dream of a day when people will have rich arguments about advanced topics instead of mere small talk.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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8/4/2009 12:11:33 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/3/2009 5:58:12 PM, MTGandP wrote:
At 8/3/2009 12:05:30 PM, Rezzealaux wrote:
"The Merchants of Cool" is a documentary that goes over exactly this topic. It's free and you can watch it online at http://www.pbs.org...
Good movie.
I just ignore conformism, and I show that to everyone I talk with. Are they talking about how they got the latest tickets to whatever concert? I stay silent. Are they talking about how they're being unconformist by wearing pink? I stay silent.

Are they talking about how it's a good idea to do X or Y?

Then I start a conversation. Everyone around me knows me as a debater - which is an unfortunate result of me taking two years of forensics and that any conflict is termed a "debate" - but in any case, I never have to deal with conformism/nonconformism.

Because it doesn't want to deal with me :D

That's the problem with being a debater. No one wants to debate you. I try to bring up debates in real life and in almost never works. I dream of a day when people will have rich arguments about advanced topics instead of mere small talk.

Exactly; either people think you're too smart and change the subject, or they know next to nothing about more in-depth topics; as a result of my debate career, I inadvertently end up correcting my friends' logic and arguing in nearly every conversation (though this is unintentional); I think that, because I'm a debater, every time I try to prove a point to one of my friends, they think that I'm just arguing for the fun of it, even when I'm trying to make a legitimate claim. Sad situation.
haley.debate20
Posts: 37
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8/4/2009 7:46:31 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I really hope this didn't start when I mentioned my friend being a conformist...it is just a big joke between my friend and I. Also South Park has a very funny show about the Goths and the Vamps being conformist....
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent."
USAPitBull63
Posts: 668
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8/4/2009 9:28:46 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
"The more things change, the more they stay the same."

That expression has been around longer than anyone on this web site.

I guess this is nothing new.
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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8/4/2009 9:34:15 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/4/2009 9:28:46 PM, USAPitBull63 wrote:
"The more things change, the more they stay the same."
Something only said by failures.

I'm sorry, that's just how things work. People who want to better their lives act to make their lives better, and they'll know when they have gotten some progress. Only people who care about change yet don't act or act in nonproductive ways see the world in that way.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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8/4/2009 9:41:01 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/4/2009 12:11:33 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 8/3/2009 5:58:12 PM, MTGandP wrote:
At 8/3/2009 12:05:30 PM, Rezzealaux wrote:
"The Merchants of Cool" is a documentary that goes over exactly this topic. It's free and you can watch it online at http://www.pbs.org...
Good movie.
I just ignore conformism, and I show that to everyone I talk with. Are they talking about how they got the latest tickets to whatever concert? I stay silent. Are they talking about how they're being unconformist by wearing pink? I stay silent.

Are they talking about how it's a good idea to do X or Y?

Then I start a conversation. Everyone around me knows me as a debater - which is an unfortunate result of me taking two years of forensics and that any conflict is termed a "debate" - but in any case, I never have to deal with conformism/nonconformism.

Because it doesn't want to deal with me :D

That's the problem with being a debater. No one wants to debate you. I try to bring up debates in real life and in almost never works. I dream of a day when people will have rich arguments about advanced topics instead of mere small talk.

Exactly; either people think you're too smart and change the subject, or they know next to nothing about more in-depth topics; as a result of my debate career, I inadvertently end up correcting my friends' logic and arguing in nearly every conversation (though this is unintentional); I think that, because I'm a debater, every time I try to prove a point to one of my friends, they think that I'm just arguing for the fun of it, even when I'm trying to make a legitimate claim. Sad situation.

Agreed. I remember one day at lunch in school this past year, a discussion/debate broke out about something on Barack Obama. There were 2 liberals, 2 conservatives, and me. Before they actually got into the argument, one of the liberal kids says to me: "You're not allowed to talk" or something like that. Everyone laughed, including me, and I just listened to the 4 kids debate. It's whatever though. The reason I came to this site is because the lack of debate in real life.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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8/5/2009 7:48:02 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I think that I'm just about the only person here who doesn't show his debating side in real life. I'm really big on avoiding conflict, agreeing with people, inflating other people's egos, etc.

There's a difference between being smart and being an intellectual. I'm all about the first and I play down the latter as much as I can. It's handy for making friends and being well-liked, I find o.o

People are such sheep XD
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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8/5/2009 7:52:03 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Conformism

Does anyone here actually believe in the conformism of anything: beliefs, genetics.... ?
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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8/5/2009 8:01:39 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
My Philosophy is to conform with those that nonconformers are most afraid of conforming with: parents and grandparents. I embrace my own culture with an unbridled passion, in a legitimate and non superficial way.

A lot of second generation Asians are keen on abandoning their culture because their minds are weak and they submit to the conformity of nonconformity very easily.

Other Asians who try to do what I do end up sucking in the bad stuff. Present-day Asian culture is not much better than American culture in terms of music, ethics, values, philosophy, etc.

I try to fight against both by immersing myself in the Chinese culture of generations ago, not the Chinese culture of today. I'd listen to Chinese opera and folk music as opposed to C-pop, Chinese poetry and art forms, historical and cultural things such as silk production, tea leaves, authentic cuisine, etc.

It doesn't stop there though. I like watching old American movies and musicals, and I thoroughly enjoy music from the 50's on back. Big band music and war era songs make me feel happy inside. Much more so than the whiny Indie crap that people worship today.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/5/2009 8:04:53 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 8:01:39 PM, Kleptin wrote:
My Philosophy is to conform with those that nonconformers are most afraid of conforming with: parents and grandparents. I embrace my own culture with an unbridled passion, in a legitimate and non superficial way.

A lot of second generation Asians are keen on abandoning their culture because their minds are weak and they submit to the conformity of nonconformity very easily.

Other Asians who try to do what I do end up sucking in the bad stuff. Present-day Asian culture is not much better than American culture in terms of music, ethics, values, philosophy, etc.

I try to fight against both by immersing myself in the Chinese culture of generations ago, not the Chinese culture of today. I'd listen to Chinese opera and folk music as opposed to C-pop, Chinese poetry and art forms, historical and cultural things such as silk production, tea leaves, authentic cuisine, etc.

It doesn't stop there though. I like watching old American movies and musicals, and I thoroughly enjoy music from the 50's on back. Big band music and war era songs make me feel happy inside. Much more so than the whiny Indie crap that people worship today.

You're conforming in your own way, you know. You just appeal more to maturity conformity. I almost expect you to start saying "damn hippies."
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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8/5/2009 8:10:23 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 8:04:53 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:01:39 PM, Kleptin wrote:
My Philosophy is to conform with those that nonconformers are most afraid of conforming with: parents and grandparents. I embrace my own culture with an unbridled passion, in a legitimate and non superficial way.

A lot of second generation Asians are keen on abandoning their culture because their minds are weak and they submit to the conformity of nonconformity very easily.

Other Asians who try to do what I do end up sucking in the bad stuff. Present-day Asian culture is not much better than American culture in terms of music, ethics, values, philosophy, etc.

I try to fight against both by immersing myself in the Chinese culture of generations ago, not the Chinese culture of today. I'd listen to Chinese opera and folk music as opposed to C-pop, Chinese poetry and art forms, historical and cultural things such as silk production, tea leaves, authentic cuisine, etc.

It doesn't stop there though. I like watching old American movies and musicals, and I thoroughly enjoy music from the 50's on back. Big band music and war era songs make me feel happy inside. Much more so than the whiny Indie crap that people worship today.

You're conforming in your own way, you know. You just appeal more to maturity conformity. I almost expect you to start saying "damn hippies."

In my opinion, it doesn't matter if what you wear, say, do, think is shared by 1% or 100% of society, I don't consider it conformism so long as you are doing what you WANT to be doing, not what you think you SHOULD be doing. I do consider myself something of a non-conformist, but it is not by choice. I have no desire to change anything about myself due to external pressures, and I think that's the most important thing, not how much of society agrees or disagrees with you.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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8/5/2009 8:11:02 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 8:04:53 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:01:39 PM, Kleptin wrote:
My Philosophy is to conform with those that nonconformers are most afraid of conforming with: parents and grandparents. I embrace my own culture with an unbridled passion, in a legitimate and non superficial way.

A lot of second generation Asians are keen on abandoning their culture because their minds are weak and they submit to the conformity of nonconformity very easily.

Other Asians who try to do what I do end up sucking in the bad stuff. Present-day Asian culture is not much better than American culture in terms of music, ethics, values, philosophy, etc.

I try to fight against both by immersing myself in the Chinese culture of generations ago, not the Chinese culture of today. I'd listen to Chinese opera and folk music as opposed to C-pop, Chinese poetry and art forms, historical and cultural things such as silk production, tea leaves, authentic cuisine, etc.

It doesn't stop there though. I like watching old American movies and musicals, and I thoroughly enjoy music from the 50's on back. Big band music and war era songs make me feel happy inside. Much more so than the whiny Indie crap that people worship today.

You're conforming in your own way, you know. You just appeal more to maturity conformity. I almost expect you to start saying "damn hippies."

Of course its conformism. I've come to the conclusion that unless you are clinically insane to the point where you are dangerous to society, you always conform. I'm just fulfilling my conformity requirements in what I view to be the most responsible way possible.

But of course, in a country founded on rebellion and independence, we readily sacrifice the old for the new, regardless of the consequences and without prior planning, then put the foul results up on a pedestal for the world to see, like a toddler proudly displaying its first toilet-products to his elders.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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8/5/2009 8:15:01 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 8:10:23 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:04:53 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:01:39 PM, Kleptin wrote:
My Philosophy is to conform with those that nonconformers are most afraid of conforming with: parents and grandparents. I embrace my own culture with an unbridled passion, in a legitimate and non superficial way.

A lot of second generation Asians are keen on abandoning their culture because their minds are weak and they submit to the conformity of nonconformity very easily.

Other Asians who try to do what I do end up sucking in the bad stuff. Present-day Asian culture is not much better than American culture in terms of music, ethics, values, philosophy, etc.

I try to fight against both by immersing myself in the Chinese culture of generations ago, not the Chinese culture of today. I'd listen to Chinese opera and folk music as opposed to C-pop, Chinese poetry and art forms, historical and cultural things such as silk production, tea leaves, authentic cuisine, etc.

It doesn't stop there though. I like watching old American movies and musicals, and I thoroughly enjoy music from the 50's on back. Big band music and war era songs make me feel happy inside. Much more so than the whiny Indie crap that people worship today.

You're conforming in your own way, you know. You just appeal more to maturity conformity. I almost expect you to start saying "damn hippies."

In my opinion, it doesn't matter if what you wear, say, do, think is shared by 1% or 100% of society, I don't consider it conformism so long as you are doing what you WANT to be doing, not what you think you SHOULD be doing. I do consider myself something of a non-conformist, but it is not by choice. I have no desire to change anything about myself due to external pressures, and I think that's the most important thing, not how much of society agrees or disagrees with you.

I agree with this guy.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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8/5/2009 8:48:28 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
But how do you know? A lot of people "like" stuff just because mainstream media makes it such that society rewards you for doing some things and punishes you for doing others. You end up liking the things that society likes. We like what is familiar, and we can pretty much be exposed to everything. Having your likes and dislikes so heavily forged by society is a thought that scares me. I like being able to know exactly why I like a particular thing.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/6/2009 9:09:57 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 8:48:28 PM, Kleptin wrote:
But how do you know? A lot of people "like" stuff just because mainstream media makes it such that society rewards you for doing some things and punishes you for doing others. You end up liking the things that society likes. We like what is familiar, and we can pretty much be exposed to everything. Having your likes and dislikes so heavily forged by society is a thought that scares me. I like being able to know exactly why I like a particular thing.

Well, I guess I really don't know, at least professionally. I put this all together in my head.

But I think of it this way. Our personalities, while individually having our own traits, are influenced by those around us and those we are inclined to like.

For example; those that are mature or intelligent for their age usually tend to be the ones that don't have a terrible amount of social interaction. They're considered "mature" because they haven't gone along the same process of societal fads as others have. Note that "mature" is a very subjective word.

What other group is not into the younger societal fads, as well as being "mature" and reasonable intelligent? Adults.

It, to me, seems natural for those types of individuals to drift towards hanging around older groups of individuals, usually in more mature settings. And because the individual will feel more comfortable, even happy with this older group, they will take on their likes, their dislikes, and etc., just as they would if they hung around with a younger group, more influenced by society.

This is how humans operate, at least as I've seen. No matter what, we will take on the personalities of those we admire. We wish to emulate them because we feel comfortable and safe in such situations, and we feel more apart of the group. Our individual likes and dislikes are the things that will keep us from becoming clones, but emulation is an important part of human progress.

So, for you, watching older movies and listening to big bands comes to you because you know others do, or maybe your perception is that others do. I do the same thing; my grandfather, a geologist, loves nature and rocks; I love nature and I actually like rocks as well, because I've gotten those ideas from him.

But, that is how I know.
patsox834
Posts: 406
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8/6/2009 10:18:02 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 8:11:02 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:04:53 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:01:39 PM, Kleptin wrote:
My Philosophy is to conform with those that nonconformers are most afraid of conforming with: parents and grandparents. I embrace my own culture with an unbridled passion, in a legitimate and non superficial way.

A lot of second generation Asians are keen on abandoning their culture because their minds are weak and they submit to the conformity of nonconformity very easily.

Other Asians who try to do what I do end up sucking in the bad stuff. Present-day Asian culture is not much better than American culture in terms of music, ethics, values, philosophy, etc.

I try to fight against both by immersing myself in the Chinese culture of generations ago, not the Chinese culture of today. I'd listen to Chinese opera and folk music as opposed to C-pop, Chinese poetry and art forms, historical and cultural things such as silk production, tea leaves, authentic cuisine, etc.

It doesn't stop there though. I like watching old American movies and musicals, and I thoroughly enjoy music from the 50's on back. Big band music and war era songs make me feel happy inside. Much more so than the whiny Indie crap that people worship today.

You're conforming in your own way, you know. You just appeal more to maturity conformity. I almost expect you to start saying "damn hippies."

Of course its conformism. I've come to the conclusion that unless you are clinically insane to the point where you are dangerous to society, you always conform. I'm just fulfilling my conformity requirements in what I view to be the most responsible way possible.

But of course, in a country founded on rebellion and independence, we readily sacrifice the old for the new, regardless of the consequences and without prior planning, then put the foul results up on a pedestal for the world to see, like a toddler proudly displaying its first toilet-products to his elders.

Well, I don't know about you, nor anybody else here, but I can say with 100% certainty that I always act like myself, regardless of what other people think and say -- and that, to me, is "non-conformity." I don't care if something is "trendy," or if it's deemed "weird"; if I conclude that I like something, then that's what matters.

Now, you can easily pass this off as me conforming to my own ideas and principles...well, I'm fine with that -- the bad thing, to me, is when people decide to comply to others' standards.

Wanna be a non-conformist? I think it's as easy as being yourself and *thinking* for yourself. Though perhaps that's not so easy to most people, but meh.
USAPitBull63
Posts: 668
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8/6/2009 11:46:56 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/4/2009 9:34:15 PM, Rezzealaux wrote:
At 8/4/2009 9:28:46 PM, USAPitBull63 wrote:
"The more things change, the more they stay the same."
Something only said by failures.

I'm sorry, that's just how things work. People who want to better their lives act to make their lives better, and they'll know when they have gotten some progress. Only people who care about change yet don't act or act in nonproductive ways see the world in that way.

When people have similar ideas, similar motivations, commit similar actions for similar reasons as others have before---all the while, thinking it's new, innovative, revolutionary, or creative for themselves---that's another time people say this line. (Often with much success.)

Let's face it: It's common for (typically youthful) people to try so hard not conform---that they just tend to conform to that branch of idealism.

Always remember that you are unique, individual, and one-of-a-kind.

Just like everybody else.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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8/10/2009 10:54:30 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/6/2009 9:09:57 AM, Volkov wrote:
Well, I guess I really don't know, at least professionally. I put this all together in my head.

But I think of it this way. Our personalities, while individually having our own traits, are influenced by those around us and those we are inclined to like.

For example; those that are mature or intelligent for their age usually tend to be the ones that don't have a terrible amount of social interaction. They're considered "mature" because they haven't gone along the same process of societal fads as others have. Note that "mature" is a very subjective word.

What other group is not into the younger societal fads, as well as being "mature" and reasonable intelligent? Adults.

It, to me, seems natural for those types of individuals to drift towards hanging around older groups of individuals, usually in more mature settings. And because the individual will feel more comfortable, even happy with this older group, they will take on their likes, their dislikes, and etc., just as they would if they hung around with a younger group, more influenced by society.

This is how humans operate, at least as I've seen. No matter what, we will take on the personalities of those we admire. We wish to emulate them because we feel comfortable and safe in such situations, and we feel more apart of the group. Our individual likes and dislikes are the things that will keep us from becoming clones, but emulation is an important part of human progress.

So, for you, watching older movies and listening to big bands comes to you because you know others do, or maybe your perception is that others do. I do the same thing; my grandfather, a geologist, loves nature and rocks; I love nature and I actually like rocks as well, because I've gotten those ideas from him.

But, that is how I know.

Yeah, that's pretty much on the money, Volkov. In my search for an identity and my fear of having my likes and dislikes dominated by the trends of pop culture, I decided to express my "individualism" by fostering a love for things in prior generations. As for the maturity/adult thing though, I'm not sure where to go from there.

I was popular in the small pond of my elementary school because I was the class clown. The problem was though, that I was extremely slow to mature and that is what actually led to the years of social isolation for me. I was still watching cartoons when everyone else was watching wrestling or sports. I'm still extraordinarily childish at heart and save for this debate site and the movies and music, I can't really be classified as mature in any way, shape, or form XD

Deep down though, I know that my love for those things was artificial, I made a conscious effort to instill those things within myself. The pleasure I get from experiencing them is legitimate, but it is very confusing to know that I get pleasure from liking things that I arbitrarily decided to like.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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8/10/2009 11:04:10 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/6/2009 10:18:02 AM, patsox834 wrote:
Well, I don't know about you, nor anybody else here, but I can say with 100% certainty that I always act like myself, regardless of what other people think and say -- and that, to me, is "non-conformity." I don't care if something is "trendy," or if it's deemed "weird"; if I conclude that I like something, then that's what matters.

The next question to ask would be how you come to the conclusion that you like something. Using myself as a guinea pig, I've already proven (at least to myself) that a person's likes and dislikes can be artificially developed and don't develop as a result of individual personality.

Now, you can easily pass this off as me conforming to my own ideas and principles...well, I'm fine with that -- the bad thing, to me, is when people decide to comply to others' standards.

That's going back to the main question. Are you so sure that your ideas an principles are not the same as the standards of others? Many of the things that we "know" to be right or wrong are learned. It's just that our participation in society makes it ingrained.

Wanna be a non-conformist? I think it's as easy as being yourself and *thinking* for yourself. Though perhaps that's not so easy to most people, but meh.

Agreed. I don't think its easy at all. In fact, I think it's almost impossible.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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8/11/2009 4:16:47 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I think Kleptin, that all you're describing is that rebellion has become just another commodity and that purchasing this commodity only makes one a good member of a capitalist society rather than an actual rebel..
Born again Christians are the ONLY TRUE rebels on this planet.. Because we follow, and have the Spirit of, the ONE TRUE Rebel: Jesus Christ.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/11/2009 10:55:01 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/11/2009 4:16:47 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
I think Kleptin, that all you're describing is that rebellion has become just another commodity and that purchasing this commodity only makes one a good member of a capitalist society rather than an actual rebel..
Born again Christians are the ONLY TRUE rebels on this planet.. Because we follow, and have the Spirit of, the ONE TRUE Rebel: Jesus Christ.

Technically if Jesus and God are 'Lord,' you're not rebelling. You're moving with authority. That is almost the exact opposite of rebelling.