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Transgenders and Drag Queens

studentathletechristian8
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8/5/2009 8:27:51 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
How do people on this website feel about transgenders and drag queens? On several television shows, I have seen both transgenders and drag queens who not only show themselves on the screen, but also flaunt themselves and take great pride in their "fixed" appearances. America's Got Talent, a widely popular talent competition that many families watch, displays transgenders and drag queens doing their "talent." I do not believe it is acceptable for children to be viewing transgenders and drag queens.
In the news, I also saw "The man who got pregnant." That is another display of sexuality that children and the general public should not be notified with. Does anyone have a certain opinion about transgenders and drag queens? I do not mean to come off mean or spiteful, but I am conservative when it comes to what is right or wrong for the general public to view and accept.

*P.S. I do not discriminate against transgenders and drag queens, I simply disagree with the lifestyle choice.*
leet4A1
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8/5/2009 8:30:53 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 8:27:51 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
How do people on this website feel about transgenders and drag queens? On several television shows, I have seen both transgenders and drag queens who not only show themselves on the screen, but also flaunt themselves and take great pride in their "fixed" appearances. America's Got Talent, a widely popular talent competition that many families watch, displays transgenders and drag queens doing their "talent." I do not believe it is acceptable for children to be viewing transgenders and drag queens.
In the news, I also saw "The man who got pregnant." That is another display of sexuality that children and the general public should not be notified with. Does anyone have a certain opinion about transgenders and drag queens? I do not mean to come off mean or spiteful, but I am conservative when it comes to what is right or wrong for the general public to view and accept.

*P.S. I do not discriminate against transgenders and drag queens, I simply disagree with the lifestyle choice.*

Who cares, man? How do drag queens affect your life? How could they ever? Life's too short to be worrying about a bunch of people doing what they want (and not hurting a soul in the process). Chances are you'll probably never even come across one, so who really cares?
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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8/5/2009 8:33:20 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 8:30:53 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:27:51 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
How do people on this website feel about transgenders and drag queens? On several television shows, I have seen both transgenders and drag queens who not only show themselves on the screen, but also flaunt themselves and take great pride in their "fixed" appearances. America's Got Talent, a widely popular talent competition that many families watch, displays transgenders and drag queens doing their "talent." I do not believe it is acceptable for children to be viewing transgenders and drag queens.
In the news, I also saw "The man who got pregnant." That is another display of sexuality that children and the general public should not be notified with. Does anyone have a certain opinion about transgenders and drag queens? I do not mean to come off mean or spiteful, but I am conservative when it comes to what is right or wrong for the general public to view and accept.

*P.S. I do not discriminate against transgenders and drag queens, I simply disagree with the lifestyle choice.*

Who cares, man? How do drag queens affect your life? How could they ever? Life's too short to be worrying about a bunch of people doing what they want (and not hurting a soul in the process). Chances are you'll probably never even come across one, so who really cares?

I'm simply expressing my viewpoint. I apologize.
Cody_Franklin
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8/5/2009 8:35:24 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 8:30:53 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:27:51 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
How do people on this website feel about transgenders and drag queens? On several television shows, I have seen both transgenders and drag queens who not only show themselves on the screen, but also flaunt themselves and take great pride in their "fixed" appearances. America's Got Talent, a widely popular talent competition that many families watch, displays transgenders and drag queens doing their "talent." I do not believe it is acceptable for children to be viewing transgenders and drag queens.
In the news, I also saw "The man who got pregnant." That is another display of sexuality that children and the general public should not be notified with. Does anyone have a certain opinion about transgenders and drag queens? I do not mean to come off mean or spiteful, but I am conservative when it comes to what is right or wrong for the general public to view and accept.

*P.S. I do not discriminate against transgenders and drag queens, I simply disagree with the lifestyle choice.*

Who cares, man? How do drag queens affect your life? How could they ever? Life's too short to be worrying about a bunch of people doing what they want (and not hurting a soul in the process). Chances are you'll probably never even come across one, so who really cares?

I hate when people make the statement "It doesn't affect you, so don't worry about it." Just because something doesn't physically affect you doesn't mean that something should just be disregarded. Obviously the fact that he brought it up shows that it affected him in some way.
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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8/5/2009 8:35:42 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 8:33:20 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:30:53 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:27:51 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
How do people on this website feel about transgenders and drag queens? On several television shows, I have seen both transgenders and drag queens who not only show themselves on the screen, but also flaunt themselves and take great pride in their "fixed" appearances. America's Got Talent, a widely popular talent competition that many families watch, displays transgenders and drag queens doing their "talent." I do not believe it is acceptable for children to be viewing transgenders and drag queens.
In the news, I also saw "The man who got pregnant." That is another display of sexuality that children and the general public should not be notified with. Does anyone have a certain opinion about transgenders and drag queens? I do not mean to come off mean or spiteful, but I am conservative when it comes to what is right or wrong for the general public to view and accept.

*P.S. I do not discriminate against transgenders and drag queens, I simply disagree with the lifestyle choice.*

Who cares, man? How do drag queens affect your life? How could they ever? Life's too short to be worrying about a bunch of people doing what they want (and not hurting a soul in the process). Chances are you'll probably never even come across one, so who really cares?

I'm simply expressing my viewpoint. I apologize.

No please don't apologize dude, I'm sorry if that sounded as though I expected one. I suppose I'm just wondering, out of curiousity, what it is that irks you about them so much.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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8/5/2009 8:38:47 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 8:35:24 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:30:53 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:27:51 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
How do people on this website feel about transgenders and drag queens? On several television shows, I have seen both transgenders and drag queens who not only show themselves on the screen, but also flaunt themselves and take great pride in their "fixed" appearances. America's Got Talent, a widely popular talent competition that many families watch, displays transgenders and drag queens doing their "talent." I do not believe it is acceptable for children to be viewing transgenders and drag queens.
In the news, I also saw "The man who got pregnant." That is another display of sexuality that children and the general public should not be notified with. Does anyone have a certain opinion about transgenders and drag queens? I do not mean to come off mean or spiteful, but I am conservative when it comes to what is right or wrong for the general public to view and accept.

*P.S. I do not discriminate against transgenders and drag queens, I simply disagree with the lifestyle choice.*

Who cares, man? How do drag queens affect your life? How could they ever? Life's too short to be worrying about a bunch of people doing what they want (and not hurting a soul in the process). Chances are you'll probably never even come across one, so who really cares?

I hate when people make the statement "It doesn't affect you, so don't worry about it."

Oh, I wouldn't want to annoy you Cody. Can we still be BFFs?

Just because something doesn't physically affect you doesn't mean that something should just be disregarded.

It was a piece of advice, which can obviously be discounted at will. Life is extremely short and unique, and what a waste it is worrying about what clothes people you don't even know are wearing.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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8/5/2009 8:41:11 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 8:35:42 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:33:20 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:30:53 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:27:51 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
How do people on this website feel about transgenders and drag queens? On several television shows, I have seen both transgenders and drag queens who not only show themselves on the screen, but also flaunt themselves and take great pride in their "fixed" appearances. America's Got Talent, a widely popular talent competition that many families watch, displays transgenders and drag queens doing their "talent." I do not believe it is acceptable for children to be viewing transgenders and drag queens.
In the news, I also saw "The man who got pregnant." That is another display of sexuality that children and the general public should not be notified with. Does anyone have a certain opinion about transgenders and drag queens? I do not mean to come off mean or spiteful, but I am conservative when it comes to what is right or wrong for the general public to view and accept.

*P.S. I do not discriminate against transgenders and drag queens, I simply disagree with the lifestyle choice.*

Who cares, man? How do drag queens affect your life? How could they ever? Life's too short to be worrying about a bunch of people doing what they want (and not hurting a soul in the process). Chances are you'll probably never even come across one, so who really cares?

I'm simply expressing my viewpoint. I apologize.

No please don't apologize dude, I'm sorry if that sounded as though I expected one. I suppose I'm just wondering, out of curiousity, what it is that irks you about them so much.

I will explain. I understand if someone feels the overwhelming need to become a transgender or drag queen- I don't have a problem because that is their choice. But when the transgenders and drag queens that take great pride in the fact that they are "newly fixed," I do not feel it is appropriate. My whole point is that I do not think transgenders or drag queens should be revealed to children as acceptable lifestyle choices. On America's Got Talent, they were being rooted for by the judges outrageously just because they were transgenders or drag queens. I do not want to witness the negative impacts it may have.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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8/5/2009 8:57:38 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I don't have an issue with transgenders if they truly have either a psychological or biological reason for their decision.

Drag Queens and people who do all that "pride" stuff really irk me. I think it's just another form of attention whoring. "Look at me! I'm different! I'm not conforming to social restrictions! Liberty! Rebellion!"

NOBODY CARES! If you have a legitimate psychological need, then do it, but do it quietly. Men dress like men and they don't make a big deal about it. Women dress like women and they don't make a big deal about it. If you're a man and want to dress like a woman, do so, but why make a big fuss?

It's the same with the Gay pride thing. That's very nice and all, but seriously, it's getting old. We know you're here, we know you're queer, and we're already used to it. We know that we're used to it because mainstream media is already capitalizing off of you, dear gay people. So please, stop with the parades. Really, what the hell do you have to be proud of? What next, Male pride parades? Female pride parades? Human pride parades?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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8/5/2009 8:59:41 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 8:38:47 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:35:24 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:30:53 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:27:51 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
How do people on this website feel about transgenders and drag queens? On several television shows, I have seen both transgenders and drag queens who not only show themselves on the screen, but also flaunt themselves and take great pride in their "fixed" appearances. America's Got Talent, a widely popular talent competition that many families watch, displays transgenders and drag queens doing their "talent." I do not believe it is acceptable for children to be viewing transgenders and drag queens.
In the news, I also saw "The man who got pregnant." That is another display of sexuality that children and the general public should not be notified with. Does anyone have a certain opinion about transgenders and drag queens? I do not mean to come off mean or spiteful, but I am conservative when it comes to what is right or wrong for the general public to view and accept.

*P.S. I do not discriminate against transgenders and drag queens, I simply disagree with the lifestyle choice.*

Who cares, man? How do drag queens affect your life? How could they ever? Life's too short to be worrying about a bunch of people doing what they want (and not hurting a soul in the process). Chances are you'll probably never even come across one, so who really cares?

I hate when people make the statement "It doesn't affect you, so don't worry about it."

Oh, I wouldn't want to annoy you Cody. Can we still be BFFs?

Well, I can hate the statement, but I may as well get along with the person making it, right? :D

Just because something doesn't physically affect you doesn't mean that something should just be disregarded.

It was a piece of advice, which can obviously be discounted at will. Life is extremely short and unique, and what a waste it is worrying about what clothes people you don't even know are wearing.

Really, I think that the problem can't be oversimplified; it's not so much people putting on the opposite sex's clothes people worry about so much as the many possible reasons and motivations behind doing it, and I suppose the actual idea of transsexuals and drag queens.
Cody_Franklin
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8/5/2009 9:01:36 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 8:57:38 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I don't have an issue with transgenders if they truly have either a psychological or biological reason for their decision.

Drag Queens and people who do all that "pride" stuff really irk me. I think it's just another form of attention whoring. "Look at me! I'm different! I'm not conforming to social restrictions! Liberty! Rebellion!"

NOBODY CARES! If you have a legitimate psychological need, then do it, but do it quietly. Men dress like men and they don't make a big deal about it. Women dress like women and they don't make a big deal about it. If you're a man and want to dress like a woman, do so, but why make a big fuss?

It's the same with the Gay pride thing. That's very nice and all, but seriously, it's getting old. We know you're here, we know you're queer, and we're already used to it. We know that we're used to it because mainstream media is already capitalizing off of you, dear gay people. So please, stop with the parades. Really, what the hell do you have to be proud of? What next, Male pride parades? Female pride parades? Human pride parades?

This might be one of my favorite posts that I've read on here. I've always wanted to have a "Straight pride" parade and see how many hate letters I get, or how many times I get insulted.
studentathletechristian8
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8/5/2009 9:04:13 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 9:01:36 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:57:38 PM, Kleptin wrote:

This might be one of my favorite posts that I've read on here. I've always wanted to have a "Straight pride" parade and see how many hate letters I get, or how many times I get insulted.

I've had the exact same idea ha. I just don't appreciate large displays of abnormity and the pride of flaunting it.
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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8/5/2009 9:06:04 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 8:27:51 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
How do people on this website feel about transgenders
I will never date one, but other than that, I am fine with them.

and drag queens?
If they can fool me that they're a woman, then hell, they're talented. I generally don't like people messing around with my sense of things, but as I don't particularly pay attention to them, it does not bother me.

On several television shows, I have seen both transgenders and drag queens who not only show themselves on the screen, but also flaunt themselves and take great pride in their "fixed" appearances. America's Got Talent, a widely popular talent competition that many families watch, displays transgenders and drag queens doing their "talent." I do not believe it is acceptable for children to be viewing transgenders and drag queens.
I'm sorry, you are not the parent of every child in the world. If you do not like other people, or parents who let their kids watch that stuff, or kids who watch that stuff, then it is completely your choice to not associate with them. If you don't like the company that broadcasts that stuff, stop supporting them. If you don't want your kids to watch that stuff, don't let them. But you do not have the right to control what other people are or aren't able to do. That is how things work.

In the news, I also saw "The man who got pregnant." That is another display of sexuality that children and the general public should not be notified with. Does anyone have a certain opinion about transgenders and drag queens? I do not mean to come off mean or spiteful, but I am conservative when it comes to what is right or wrong for the general public to view and accept.
When I first heard about "the man who got pregnant", I was like "Umm that's not possible, stop being retarded plzkthx" - and when I found out about it, my initial reaction was "yuck, who would want to...", but it's not my place to let or not let the media report on it. Apply what I said previously here - if you don't like it and you don't want your children to learn about it, then censor it for them. Don't let them watch it, teach your conservative values and beliefs and whatever. (Personally I think children have freedoms and rights to some extent too, but that's a different discussion, let's assume they don't for the time being) However, you can't censor them for everyone else. They are not your property. You cannot just do what you want with them.

*P.S. I do not discriminate against transgenders and drag queens, I simply disagree with the lifestyle choice.*
Then don't become a transgender or a drag queen. If you don't want them to exist period though or don't want them to be shown on TV by anyone, then obviously, you don't "simply disagree with the lifestyle choice", you want everyone to satisfy your own desires.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Kleptin
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8/5/2009 9:10:27 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 9:04:13 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 8/5/2009 9:01:36 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:57:38 PM, Kleptin wrote:

This might be one of my favorite posts that I've read on here. I've always wanted to have a "Straight pride" parade and see how many hate letters I get, or how many times I get insulted.

I've had the exact same idea ha. I just don't appreciate large displays of abnormity and the pride of flaunting it.

For me, its the exact opposite. I like large displays of abnormality. I perform large displays of abnormality every day. I'm a loud, boisterous, obnoxiously eccentric person.

I dislike large displays of something boring and common as if though it were abnormal and novel. That's why I dislike the Gay Pride movement, crossdressers, and so on and so forth. Growing up in NYC does stuff to a person.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Volkov
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8/6/2009 9:37:49 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I don't find anything wrong with transgenders or drag queens, because I don't see why I should care. They are who they are, and if they feel like they're the opposite sex, then that is who they are.

Should children be able to view it? Sure, why not? Children are allowed to view pastors calling 9/11 'divine retribution,' so why not transgenders? Why not LGBT entirely?

The only standard that applies is the decency standard that applies to everyone else; try not to let your kids see people naked, or torturing others, and etc., as that probably isn't good for them.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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8/6/2009 9:40:38 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 8:57:38 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I don't have an issue with transgenders if they truly have either a psychological or biological reason for their decision.

Drag Queens and people who do all that "pride" stuff really irk me. I think it's just another form of attention whoring. "Look at me! I'm different! I'm not conforming to social restrictions! Liberty! Rebellion!"

NOBODY CARES! If you have a legitimate psychological need, then do it, but do it quietly. Men dress like men and they don't make a big deal about it. Women dress like women and they don't make a big deal about it. If you're a man and want to dress like a woman, do so, but why make a big fuss?

It's the same with the Gay pride thing. That's very nice and all, but seriously, it's getting old. We know you're here, we know you're queer, and we're already used to it. We know that we're used to it because mainstream media is already capitalizing off of you, dear gay people. So please, stop with the parades. Really, what the hell do you have to be proud of? What next, Male pride parades? Female pride parades? Human pride parades?

Ditto. Completely agreed. Well put.
Volkov
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8/6/2009 9:52:04 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/6/2009 9:40:38 AM, Nags wrote:
At 8/5/2009 8:57:38 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I don't have an issue with transgenders if they truly have either a psychological or biological reason for their decision.

Drag Queens and people who do all that "pride" stuff really irk me. I think it's just another form of attention whoring. "Look at me! I'm different! I'm not conforming to social restrictions! Liberty! Rebellion!"

NOBODY CARES! If you have a legitimate psychological need, then do it, but do it quietly. Men dress like men and they don't make a big deal about it. Women dress like women and they don't make a big deal about it. If you're a man and want to dress like a woman, do so, but why make a big fuss?

It's the same with the Gay pride thing. That's very nice and all, but seriously, it's getting old. We know you're here, we know you're queer, and we're already used to it. We know that we're used to it because mainstream media is already capitalizing off of you, dear gay people. So please, stop with the parades. Really, what the hell do you have to be proud of? What next, Male pride parades? Female pride parades? Human pride parades?

Ditto. Completely agreed. Well put.

I disagree, slightly.

Ones that go for the attention seeking reasons are ones that well, need attention. They like being in the limelight.

But gay pride is different. By your reasoning, and for all I know it very well could be, any parade or celebration that celebrates anything is pointless. July 4th, Victoria Day, Christmas, New Years - pointless, because they're just celebrations of things people already know about. We already know about Santa Claus, stop attention seeking Chris Cringle! Martin Luther King Day? Who the hell cares, he's attention seeking!

Parades and celebrations aren't about personal attention seeking, just for the hell of it. They're celebrating the ideas, struggles and acts of the past that brought about the situation in the present. They're important for cultural identity, for community cohesiveness and for a general reminder of the history that had happened, and the situations we have to confront in the present.

To chastise celebrations as "attention seeking" is to discard our progress.
Xer
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8/6/2009 9:55:19 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Volkov-

All the events you mentioned have a very important historical meaning. They are celebrations of wonderful events in history.

Gay pride does not celebrate anything that is of historical importance. It is a fact, nothing more.
Volkov
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8/6/2009 10:00:17 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/6/2009 9:55:19 AM, Nags wrote:
Volkov-

All the events you mentioned have a very important historical meaning. They are celebrations of wonderful events in history.

Gay pride does not celebrate anything that is of historical importance. It is a fact, nothing more.

Nothing of "historical importance?" I assume that you believe homosexuals have always had rights, and that there was never laws against homosexuality, and that today there are no countries anywhere that do not execute homosexuals just for existing.

Historically important events for the gay community and others happen all the time. Canada's landmark 2005 legalization of same-sex marriage. Decriminalization of homosexuality in the latter part of the 20th Century. I could go on, and on.

Just because it isn't important to you, doesn't mean it is not important for others, and that there was no struggle and that everything before was happy-go lucky fun.

Never forget that these parades are huge sources of tourist income, cultural celebration including art and entertainment... what is the issue with such events?
Xer
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8/6/2009 10:15:11 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
You don't see BLACK PRIDE Parades or WOMEN PRIDE magazines nearly as much as GAY PRIDE and they had to overcome more than the gays.

You also don't see PRO-ABORTION ROE VS. WADE PRIDE Parade. And on and on and on:

ANTI-PROHIBITION PRIDE.

PRO-CONFEDORATE PRIDE.

PRO-SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE PRIDE.

PRO-FLAG BURNING PRIDE.

Everyone had to overcome adversity Volkov. No need to flaunt it. No need to make everyone know about it. No need to dress up half-naked.

Let me make it clearer for you- The events you listed are of historical importance for pretty much, the whole country, not a small subset.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/6/2009 10:22:28 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
My 'issue' with transgenders is that I do not understand if the problem of being 'born the wrong gender' is
a) a biological condition
b) a psychological condition
c) a combination of both
d) dependent on a case by case situation.

However there exists extreme treatment for the 'condition' in the form of surgery.

So there is a surgical solution for a medical condition that has not yet been properly diagnosed and classified.

For instance, some people have gone to hospital and claimed that part of their anatomy is 'alien' to them. That they can not stand say their left hand. They have asked for it to be removed. Such people are assumed to have not a biological condition but a psychological one, they are given counselling and only if this fails and they become suicidal are they given surgery. (No its actually true).

One recent case that disturbed some people was that of a 16 year German boy, who has recently become a girl. Is that too young to make such a major decision?

I am more disturbed by the case of the pregnant 'man', but that is because I don't understand him/her. If she identifies with the male gender, why is she insisting on being a mother, or does she regard herself as being a 'third gender'? Do I have the right to even express an opinion about her gender identity?

For what it is worth I am not opposed to transgender people, just confused and wary about their situation and the best solutions for them. I appreciate that to feel that you are the wrong gender, and to feel this so strongly that you are willing to undergo such a major procedure must be a terrible situation and I respect them and wish them all the best of luck.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
patsox834
Posts: 406
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8/6/2009 10:32:13 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 8:57:38 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I don't have an issue with transgenders if they truly have either a psychological or biological reason for their decision.

Drag Queens and people who do all that "pride" stuff really irk me. I think it's just another form of attention whoring. "Look at me! I'm different! I'm not conforming to social restrictions! Liberty! Rebellion!"

NOBODY CARES! If you have a legitimate psychological need, then do it, but do it quietly. Men dress like men and they don't make a big deal about it. Women dress like women and they don't make a big deal about it. If you're a man and want to dress like a woman, do so, but why make a big fuss?

It's the same with the Gay pride thing. That's very nice and all, but seriously, it's getting old. We know you're here, we know you're queer, and we're already used to it. We know that we're used to it because mainstream media is already capitalizing off of you, dear gay people. So please, stop with the parades. Really, what the hell do you have to be proud of? What next, Male pride parades? Female pride parades? Human pride parades?

Wow, I agree with you 100%.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/6/2009 10:37:54 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/6/2009 10:15:11 AM, Nags wrote:
You don't see BLACK PRIDE Parades

http://en.wikipedia.org...

That can be constituted as a "day of celebration" for the African American community, no?

or WOMEN PRIDE magazines

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Those kinds of magazines were unheard of only 50 years ago.

nearly as much as GAY PRIDE and they had to overcome more than the gays.

You don't think overcoming criminalization and automatic execution is a substantial thing to get by?

Besides, who are you to say whether they went through "more" or less?

You also don't see PRO-ABORTION ROE VS. WADE PRIDE Parade.

http://www.foxnews.com...
http://www.ewtn.com...

The numerous rallies for pro-abortion stances are signs of celebration, discourse and movement. You should know that just because it isn't an annual celebration, or that it doesn't have "pride" at the end of it, doesn't mean it isn't a movement or celebration of rights attained.

ANTI-PROHIBITION PRIDE.

I'd think frat parties and the numerous drunks that bounce around are signs of anti-prohibition pride.

PRO-CONFEDORATE PRIDE.

http://www.confederateamericanpride.com...

PRO-SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE PRIDE.

http://www.au.org...

PRO-FLAG BURNING PRIDE.

http://marchforfreeexpression.blogspot.com...

Everyone had to overcome adversity Volkov. No need to flaunt it. No need to make everyone know about it. No need to dress up half-naked.

No need to have something called the "Conservative Political Action Conference" either, but I'm sure you would support it.

Let me make it clearer for you- The events you listed are of historical importance for pretty much, the whole country, not a small subset.

So you would deny people the right to have their celebrations, just because they're a "small subset?"
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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8/6/2009 10:44:58 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I meant to say women pride PARADES, not magazines

----------

Lol @ all your sources and rebuttals.

Because they clearly happen in the same frequency as GAY PRIDE Parades. Right?

And I didn't say I would deny them right to parade. They simply annoy me. And if I was a voter in California who had to watch these GAY PRIDE Parades all the time, they would just piss me off. They would piss me off so much that I would vote against them in Prop. 8 as punishment.
Volkov
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8/6/2009 10:52:32 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/6/2009 10:44:58 AM, Nags wrote:
Because they clearly happen in the same frequency as GAY PRIDE Parades. Right?

Do you know how often there is pro-abortion rallies, and conservative party rallies, and etc.?

And I didn't say I would deny them right to parade. They simply annoy me. And if I was a voter in California who had to watch these GAY PRIDE Parades all the time, they would just piss me off. They would piss me off so much that I would vote against them in Prop. 8 as punishment.

That is a very shallow idea, and I would fight tooth and nail to make sure opinions like that don't run over the rights of others.

The point is that you don't think they should have parades simply because you don't like it. Who cares what you think? They can do it, because they have the right under law to do it. They bring it money, they bring in tourists, and they celebrate their culture.

Live with it. Or stage an anti-gay rally. I don't care what you do, but don't imply that homosexuals have had the easy ride in history, and that the freedoms the fought for amount to nothing.
USAPitBull63
Posts: 668
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8/6/2009 11:29:18 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I saw a transvestite at LAX airport last month. (Pretty common out there, actually.) It was kinda funny b/c (s)he was asking for directions from a security guard, and when (s)he left, the looks on the guards' faces were hilarious. I just shrugged it off and kinda laughed.

I think of it like tattoos, only much more expensive.

But I agree with your point, stu. You seem pretty reasonable about this. And there IS a difference between someone making the independent decision to have the operation/lifestyle change---and suddenly projecting an image of it not only being tolerable, but that it should be widely accepted, popular, and celebrated.

The latter is agenda-driven. And just because you feel it may be inappropriate for children to see that, and to have that agenda implicitly shoved down their throats (no jokes), it does not make you closed-minded.

In fact, I'd argue that your viewpoint here makes you a lot more open-minded than those who just knee-jerk cheer or jeer, either way.
Nik
Posts: 552
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8/6/2009 11:46:45 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I was once flicking through the channels on on my tv, just chilling out with a few of my mates. Saw that a programme called sexcetera was on. I though hang on, any thing with the word sex in it is gonna be good right?

Well started watching it, and there were some fine looking ladies on the screen, topless of course parading about talking about some photoshoot or something like that. We weren't really listening, if ya know what I mean! There were a few course comments laughed between us, about how we would bang them and what we would do to their breasts as such forth, just some lads being crude on a late friday evening, completely normal right?

well me and my friends are very liberal people so to speak, we have gay friends, we are completely cool about transvestites and drag queens, nothing too wrong with that. But when one of these stunning ladies on the screen whipped out his dick for a photoshoot, well.....lets just say (and this is a true story by the way) that I was cleaning vomit up the next morning.

I have never looked at a transvestite the same way since.
"If you could tell the world but one truth, I could convince it of a thousand lies"
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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8/6/2009 12:24:19 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Volkov-

I have the right to live in peace. I'm fully supportive of gay marriage and civil unions and whatnot. I'm not gunna yell in gay peoples' faces "STRAIGHT PRIDE STRAIGHT PRIDE." I expect the gays to do the same. But nope. Some of them, especially in California, want to make the whole world know. This annoys me to the nth power. As their punishment for always demanding attention, I would vote against them. This only further the stigma that gay people are flamboyant wackjobs. If they wanna calm down and stop being attentions whors, I'd gladly vote for them to do whateva. But, until they stop acting like abnoxious 3-year olds, I'll punish them with my vote. As a politician though, I'd just let them have what they want no matter how childish they act.
Volkov
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8/6/2009 5:37:00 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/6/2009 12:24:19 PM, Nags wrote:
Volkov-

I have the right to live in peace.

Stay indoors. Public space means the public can do what the public wants, within the law.

I'm fully supportive of gay marriage and civil unions and whatnot. I'm not gunna yell in gay peoples' faces "STRAIGHT PRIDE STRAIGHT PRIDE." I expect the gays to do the same. But nope. Some of them, especially in California, want to make the whole world know. This annoys me to the nth power. As their punishment for always demanding attention, I would vote against them.

Because a few act like asses, you must punish them all?

This only further the stigma that gay people are flamboyant wackjobs.

Voting against legislation because of a few whackjobs who in no way represent every homosexual also promotes stigma.

If they wanna calm down and stop being attentions whors, I'd gladly vote for them to do whateva. But, until they stop acting like abnoxious 3-year olds, I'll punish them with my vote.

That I find, very, very wrong.

As a politician though, I'd just let them have what they want no matter how childish they act.

This may be why I seem to understand a politician more than some others in society. Reasonable people act reasonably.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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8/10/2009 10:26:30 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
@Volkov

Being gay is not a national hobby. In your list, everything listed is a celebration for widescale, national events that apply to nearly the entire population (with the exception of MLK day, which I believe makes it unfair to the countless number of greater men than he)

Like it or not, the strides for Gay rights really don't matter much in comparison to July 4th or Christmas. Christmas has been secularized to incorporate nearly every citizen. Gay pride is something that a straight person tends not to have.

As for the celebration part, The question is whether or not the parade or the celebration actually has legitimate meaning. For the most part, the gay pride demonstrations that irk me are not the ones where they dress plainly, wave rainbow flags, and pass out petitions for legalizing gay marriage.

The ones that irk me are the ones where the entire purpose is shock appeal/in-your-face-ness. Which tends to be every single Gay pride parade.

If they want to celebrate their triumphs, they can do that in a less flamboyant and obnoxious way. There is nothing that objectively ties homosexuality to the type of attention-hogging shock-appeal that they do in stark contrast to any other parade. Floats where gay firefighters or policemen representing their presence are acceptable. Half-naked men covered in paint, makeup, and glitter, dancing and soliciting bystanders is not.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Volkov
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8/10/2009 11:13:30 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
@Kleptin

It may not be a "national hobby," but it is a cultural/societal one, similar to how Carribana or Cinco de Mayo is celebrated in the US or Canada. I believe those types of celebrations are important for the identity of small minorities, swimming in a sea of a majority - homosexuals fit that description.

So while yes, they may have attention seeking idiocy coming from some individuals, the majority of it is a legit celebration, at least to me, and I see no reason to attack them for it.