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America the republic

16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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5/19/2012 6:09:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
**Note I am posting this here because Dan T posted like 100 political forums so it is full, and I dont want to clog it up more**

The federalist paper refute america being a democracy: "The true distinction between these forms was also adverted to on a former occasion. It is, that in a democracy, the people meet and exercise the government in person; in a republic, they assemble and administer it by their representatives and agents. A democracy, consequently, will be confined to a small spot. A republic may be extended over a large region."[1]

By doing this he shows we are a republic, the distinctons are huge, and we sound more like a republic based on this. It may be argued he did this to show we where a republic, but this is unlikely because they hate democracies. [2]

[1] Federalist No. 14
[2] http://users.law.capital.edu...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/19/2012 6:15:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Federalists were only half the people who shaped the nation. The more authoritarian side, too.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
16kadams
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5/19/2012 6:19:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 6:15:17 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The Federalists were only half the people who shaped the nation. The more authoritarian side, too.

You also forget all the founders hated democracy as they observed history, too....
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/19/2012 6:21:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 6:19:23 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 5/19/2012 6:15:17 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The Federalists were only half the people who shaped the nation. The more authoritarian side, too.

You also forget all the founders hated democracy as they observed history, too....

*cough*Thomas Paine*cough*
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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5/19/2012 6:22:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The US government is better described as an overly complex and incompetently run pyramid scheme consisting of a bunch of senile old farts who get off on taking in the rear by the businesses that pay them to play model united nations.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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5/19/2012 6:23:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 6:21:56 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/19/2012 6:19:23 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 5/19/2012 6:15:17 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The Federalists were only half the people who shaped the nation. The more authoritarian side, too.

You also forget all the founders hated democracy as they observed history, too....

*cough*Thomas Paine*cough*

That's one name. Also, the CIA lists us as a constitutional republic lol.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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5/19/2012 6:25:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 6:23:45 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 5/19/2012 6:21:56 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/19/2012 6:19:23 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 5/19/2012 6:15:17 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The Federalists were only half the people who shaped the nation. The more authoritarian side, too.

You also forget all the founders hated democracy as they observed history, too....

*cough*Thomas Paine*cough*

That's one name. Also, the CIA lists us as a constitutional republic lol.

also: http://en.wikipedia.org...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/19/2012 6:44:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 6:25:23 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 5/19/2012 6:23:45 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 5/19/2012 6:21:56 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/19/2012 6:19:23 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 5/19/2012 6:15:17 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The Federalists were only half the people who shaped the nation. The more authoritarian side, too.

You also forget all the founders hated democracy as they observed history, too....

*cough*Thomas Paine*cough*

That's one name. Also, the CIA lists us as a constitutional republic lol.

also: http://en.wikipedia.org...

Yeah, there's no way I would claim that we ARE a democracy. But the question of what was intended is not a this-or-that. And the relevance of the answer to that to what should be is null.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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5/21/2012 10:30:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 6:09:33 PM, 16kadams wrote:
**Note I am posting this here because Dan T posted like 100 political forums so it is full, and I dont want to clog it up more**

The federalist paper refute america being a democracy: "The true distinction between these forms was also adverted to on a former occasion. It is, that in a democracy, the people meet and exercise the government in person; in a republic, they assemble and administer it by their representatives and agents. A democracy, consequently, will be confined to a small spot. A republic may be extended over a large region."[1]

By doing this he shows we are a republic, the distinctons are huge, and we sound more like a republic based on this. It may be argued he did this to show we where a republic, but this is unlikely because they hate democracies. [2]


[1] Federalist No. 14
[2] http://users.law.capital.edu...

I always knew that we were a republic. The "democracy" nonsense is just rhetoric :p
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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5/21/2012 10:31:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Founders got to decide because they used violence. People like Paine, as Freedo mentioned, also had some influence, and they did not like Republics. Neither did people like Patric Henry.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/21/2012 11:00:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/21/2012 10:31:19 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
The Founders got to decide because they used violence. People like Paine, as Freedo mentioned, also had some influence, and they did not like Republics. Neither did people like Patric Henry.

Do you have any evidence?
Not liking federalization (the anti-federalists were in fact the "federalists" in the sense of wanting to decentralize, i.e. the sense the term has been used in all contexts except partisan identification)=/= not liking republics.
It equals liking one's republics to be geographically smaller.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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5/21/2012 11:28:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Is there some debate over it? I always assumed that was common, unopposed knowledge.
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K.GKevinGeary
Posts: 32
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5/22/2012 11:06:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
yea note also in the "pledge of allegiance" ..."to the republic..."

And even with a republic there is so many flaws in this.

Look at Big Buss and Big Govs uniting- that can point to fascism.

Then the constitutional rights that get violated daily.- Patriot act- that is still occuring.

But there is so much on this topic that can even refute the republic or at least poke holes in the idea.

Take a look at the Florida election where Bush one- Did the people really vote for him to be an elected official?

But briefly on democracy- the founding fathers did not think that the people could actually handle living in a true democracy- hence in short the republic ensued.