Total Posts:112|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

What's wrong with incest or polygamy?

MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 6:57:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Many SMM supporters point out that there are important differences between these cases and same-sex unions. Incest, for example, can produce children with health problems and may involve child abuse. But then, assuming for the moment that the state's interest in avoiding such bad outcomes trumps what SSM supporters tend to describe as a fundamental right, why not allow incestuous marriages between adult infertile or same-sex couples?
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 10:56:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think this is another case of people first thinking that it's icky, THEN coming up with a rationalization as to why it shouldn't be allowed.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 11:06:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 10:56:26 AM, Kleptin wrote:
I think this is another case of people first thinking that it's icky, THEN coming up with a rationalization as to why it shouldn't be allowed.

But incest and polygamy are just intrinsically wrong! I'm not just rephrasing my squicky feelings into fancy philosophical words to make them seem justified.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 11:08:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 10:56:26 AM, Kleptin wrote:
I think this is another case of people first thinking that it's icky, THEN coming up with a rationalization as to why it shouldn't be allowed.

No, it is based on the belief that same-sex marriage will lead to other non-traditional forms of marriage. A lot of SSM supporters claim that allowing homosexuals to marry would not lead to this, so my post was a refutation of that argument.

And why is it only the traditional marriage supporters that seek to affirm preexisting biases? Don't SSM supporters do the same thing for their idea that "anyone should be able to love each other?"

Unless you were referring to incestuous or polygamous marriages in the first place, in which case you are a very creepy person.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 11:08:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
What's your definition of intrinsically right or intrinsically wrong?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Jon1
Posts: 314
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 12:53:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 10:56:26 AM, Kleptin wrote:
I think this is another case of people first thinking that it's icky, THEN coming up with a rationalization as to why it shouldn't be allowed.

It is icky. Also, what is wrong with "THEN" coming up with an argument? Are not all arguments created with a pinch of bias?
YYW
Posts: 36,249
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 1:09:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 1:00:46 PM, drafterman wrote:
Because all I have are brothers.

And if you had a sister?
Tsar of DDO
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 1:17:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 1:09:30 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/3/2012 1:00:46 PM, drafterman wrote:
Because all I have are brothers.

And if you had a sister?

Is she hot?
YYW
Posts: 36,249
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 1:27:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 1:17:26 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 6/3/2012 1:09:30 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/3/2012 1:00:46 PM, drafterman wrote:
Because all I have are brothers.

And if you had a sister?

Is she hot?

She's your sister. I wouldn't know. But let's say, theoretically, that you had a hot sister.
Tsar of DDO
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 1:32:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 6:57:24 AM, MouthWash wrote:
Many SMM supporters point out that there are important differences between these cases and same-sex unions.
SMM? Same-mama-marriage? how is that different from incest?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 1:33:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 11:06:48 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 6/3/2012 10:56:26 AM, Kleptin wrote:
I think this is another case of people first thinking that it's icky, THEN coming up with a rationalization as to why it shouldn't be allowed.

But incest and polygamy are just intrinsically wrong! I'm not just rephrasing my squicky feelings into fancy philosophical words to make them seem justified.

Failure to adhere to some principle when pointing a gun at someone is wrong.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 1:34:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 11:08:11 AM, Kleptin wrote:
What's your definition of intrinsically right or intrinsically wrong?

Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I don't think intrinsic value exists.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 1:37:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 11:08:08 AM, MouthWash wrote:
Unless you were referring to incestuous or polygamous marriages in the first place, in which case you are a very creepy person.

That is what he was referring to. And the emotionally loaded 'creepy' really just proves his point.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 1:41:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 10:56:26 AM, Kleptin wrote:
I think this is another case of people first thinking that it's icky, THEN coming up with a rationalization as to why it shouldn't be allowed.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 1:45:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 1:27:21 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/3/2012 1:17:26 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 6/3/2012 1:09:30 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/3/2012 1:00:46 PM, drafterman wrote:
Because all I have are brothers.

And if you had a sister?

Is she hot?

She's your sister. I wouldn't know. But let's say, theoretically, that you had a hot sister.

Does she prefer Star Wars or Star Trek?
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 1:47:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 1:41:32 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 6/3/2012 10:56:26 AM, Kleptin wrote:
I think this is another case of people first thinking that it's icky, THEN coming up with a rationalization as to why it shouldn't be allowed.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 2:43:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 1:37:35 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 6/3/2012 11:08:08 AM, MouthWash wrote:
Unless you were referring to incestuous or polygamous marriages in the first place, in which case you are a very creepy person.

That is what he was referring to. And the emotionally loaded 'creepy' really just proves his point.

Emotionally loaded? You realize that was just satire, right?
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 2:46:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I further note that not one person has responded to my actual argument.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 2:53:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 2:46:14 PM, MouthWash wrote:
I further note that not one person has responded to my actual argument.

That seems to be because most of us are fine with incest and polygamy between consenting adults.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 2:53:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
And the rest are too dumb to respond of course ^_6
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 2:54:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 2:53:14 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/3/2012 2:46:14 PM, MouthWash wrote:
I further note that not one person has responded to my actual argument.

That seems to be because most of us are fine with incest and polygamy between consenting adults.

I am directing this at SSM supporters who claim that legalizing gay marriage will not lead to incestuous or polygamous marriage.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Ren
Posts: 7,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 2:56:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
in terms of polygamy, it's counterintuitive to our current social arrangement.

In terms of incest -- much like homosexuality, many people do it, and there's nothing you can do about it. It happens so often by mistake, it's outright unenforceable unless it's flagrant -- like, say, siblings.

Although there's an increased likelihood for inherent genetic anomalies to manifest, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the increased likelihood of transcription errors is actually pretty small, unless we're talking about siblings or parents-children. Those transcription errors come from repeats of largely the same genome. But, as soon as you have a single degree of separation (cousins), that goes out the window. Actually, let me try to find something on it...

http://archives.cnn.com...

Ah, there it is.

I mean, clearly, there are many prominent people that have married their kin, such as Albert Einstein, Charles Darwin, and FDR.

I mean, I really don't know... it seems interestingly taboo. As many people that will claim it's hideous and disgusting, will admit that it's pretty hot to even think or talk about in private.

Would I do it? Well, I'm not very close to my family, so I wouldn't know. The thought of sleeping with my mother sure repulses me, though. Nonetheless, I'm pretty sure not everyone is like that, and although I have absolutely nothing against homosexuality, the thought of fvcking a dude up the butt repulses me, too.

Going back to polygamy, there's one other issue that I have with it, and that's the concept of cheating and whatnot. To polygamists, all people of the opposite sex are fair game, whether or not they're married or already with someone. That alone sounds dubious to me. It seems quite reminiscent of a time when people had servants that they were expected to sleep with, and families they were expected to marry into, even if its back into your own.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 2:57:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 2:54:58 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 6/3/2012 2:53:14 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/3/2012 2:46:14 PM, MouthWash wrote:
I further note that not one person has responded to my actual argument.

That seems to be because most of us are fine with incest and polygamy between consenting adults.

I am directing this at SSM supporters who claim that legalizing gay marriage will not lead to incestuous or polygamous marriage.

I don't know of anyone on DDO who would say that. It seems like an unnecessary point considering there's nothing morally wrong with either.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Apollo.11
Posts: 3,478
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 3:00:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
How does homosexual marriage lead to incest any more than heterosexual marriages? In fact, you would need a heterosexual....couple? to have incest. Same with polygamy and polyandry. These stem from heterosexual relationships.
Sapere Aude!
Ren
Posts: 7,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 3:02:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 3:00:43 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
How does homosexual marriage lead to incest any more than heterosexual marriages? In fact, you would need a heterosexual....couple? to have incest. Same with polygamy and polyandry. These stem from heterosexual relationships.

Slippery slope fallacy.
Apollo.11
Posts: 3,478
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 3:07:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 3:02:05 PM, Ren wrote:
At 6/3/2012 3:00:43 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
How does homosexual marriage lead to incest any more than heterosexual marriages? In fact, you would need a heterosexual....couple? to have incest. Same with polygamy and polyandry. These stem from heterosexual relationships.

Slippery slope fallacy.

Nope. I'm not asserting that heterosexual relationships lead to incest and polygamy. I am negating the premise that homosexual marriage does and can lead to invest, polygamy, grand larceny, etc.

Homosexual relationships, cannot by their very definition, lead to incest or polygamy.
Sapere Aude!
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 3:10:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 3:07:26 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 6/3/2012 3:02:05 PM, Ren wrote:
At 6/3/2012 3:00:43 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
How does homosexual marriage lead to incest any more than heterosexual marriages? In fact, you would need a heterosexual....couple? to have incest. Same with polygamy and polyandry. These stem from heterosexual relationships.

Slippery slope fallacy.

Nope. I'm not asserting that heterosexual relationships lead to incest and polygamy. I am negating the premise that homosexual marriage does and can lead to invest, polygamy, grand larceny, etc.

Homosexual relationships, cannot by their very definition, lead to incest or polygamy.

I see you didn't bother to actually read it. I was talking about redefining marriage. Nothing to do with relationships.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 3:16:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 2:56:56 PM, Ren wrote:
In terms of incest -- much like homosexuality, many people do it, and there's nothing you can do about it. It happens so often by mistake, it's outright unenforceable unless it's flagrant -- like, say, siblings.

I was talking about marriage.

But, as soon as you have a single degree of separation (cousins), that goes out the window.

I read the opposite. Certain royal families used to have incredibly physically and mentally abnormal offspring due to their tradition of marrying cousins.

I mean, clearly, there are many prominent people that have married their kin, such as Albert Einstein, Charles Darwin, and FDR.

Appeal to authority?

I mean, I really don't know... it seems interestingly taboo. As many people that will claim it's hideous and disgusting, will admit that it's pretty hot to even think or talk about in private.

I do not wish to have these insights into your sexual fantasies, interesting as they may be.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Ren
Posts: 7,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2012 3:18:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 3:07:26 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 6/3/2012 3:02:05 PM, Ren wrote:
At 6/3/2012 3:00:43 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
How does homosexual marriage lead to incest any more than heterosexual marriages? In fact, you would need a heterosexual....couple? to have incest. Same with polygamy and polyandry. These stem from heterosexual relationships.

Slippery slope fallacy.

Nope. I'm not asserting that heterosexual relationships lead to incest and polygamy. I am negating the premise that homosexual marriage does and can lead to invest, polygamy, grand larceny, etc.

Homosexual relationships, cannot by their very definition, lead to incest or polygamy.

That wasn't an accusation; I was just answering your question.

That's how people arrive to those conclusions. Through applying a slippery slope fallacy. Making a casual connection where there is none, because "one thing (inexplicably) leads to another."