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List(2) of Anti-Abortion Arguments

elvroin_vonn_trazem
Posts: 99
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6/30/2012 3:32:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Twelve new items have been added. People who made suggestions should be able to recognize them after the editing I did. If anyone, on either side of the abortion debate, knows of an anti-abortion argument that is not on this list, please post it. Thanks in advance!

1. "All life is special. It is unfortunate that we have to kill other things to survive, but killing any other thing at any other time should be avoided."

2. "Native American culture mandates that if you kill it, you must eat it. Therefore abortion should be forbidden."

3. "There is such a thing as a 'right to life', and unborn humans have it."

4. "Human life is special."

5. "Human life is intrinsically valuable."

6. "Each human life is unique."

7. "Raping women into pregnancy, or tricking them into pregnancy, and then running away to continue to 'sow wild oats' far and wide, leaving lots of women with the task of raising offspring that carry the valuable and special and unique genes of the perpetrators, is a reason for said perpetrators to oppose abortion."

8. "Personhood obviously begins at conception because, if you consider the question, 'When did your life begin?', then where would you be if it had been aborted?"

9. "Unborn humans are persons, generically."

10. "Personhood is an innate characteristic of the human species; therefore unborn humans are persons."

11. "An unborn human is a person because there is no way to determine that it is not a person."

12. "Personhood is associated with the human body, and since unborn humans have human bodies, they are persons."

13. "Abortion might kill an Einstein."

14. "Human minds are special, so when brain activity begins, that is when personhood begins."

15. "Unborn humans have capacities that ordinary animals lack."

16. "Unborn humans are equivalent to ordinary humans who might be asleep or in a coma, because eventually they can wake up and act like persons."

17. "Unborn humans are human beings."

18. "Any uncertainty regarding the personhood of an unborn human means that we should err on the side of assuming that it has it."

19. "Facts that disqualify unborn humans from personhood also disqualify newborns from personhood, and therefore infanticide should be moral."

20. "Abortion is immoral."

21. "The Biblical Sixth Commandment forbids murder, and thereby also forbids abortion."

22. "Children are a gift from God."

23. "Unborn humans are persons because God gives them souls at conception."

24. "Abortion is dangerous."

25. "Abortion encourages discrimination against handicapped unborn humans."

26. "Terms such as 'embryo' and 'fetus' are de-humanizing."

27. "Unborn humans are innocent."

28. "Personhood and right-to-life can be associated with a particular kind of entity, and one of the characteristics of that kind is the ability to actively develop itself the point of qualifying for personhood. From the moment of conception, unborn humans are that kind of entity, and therefore abortion should be forbidden."

29. "There is no significant difference between an unborn human just prior to birth, and a newborn human."

30. "In cultures that subscribe to the idea that souls can 'reincarnate', abortion interferes with the long-term growth of a soul."

31. "Abortion is unethical."

32. "Abortion gives a woman bad karma."

33. "A woman may have the right to decide what happens to her body, but it is not her body that gets aborted."

34. "An unborn human is a baby or a child."

35. "Because it is not permissible to refuse temporary accommodation for a guest, to protect them from physical harm (per, for example, an ice storm), it is not permissible to refuse the temporary accommodation which is a pregnancy."

36. "Sex causes pregnancy, which forces responsibilities upon the participants."

37. "The primary purpose of sex is reproduction, so, whenever people have sex and pregnancy results, abortion must be prohibited."

38. "Since sex is voluntary, and is often accompanied with some risk that pregnancy will result, it follows that by choosing to take the risk and engage in sex, the participants are voluntarily accepting the consequences, regardless of how undesirable they might be. Therefore pregnancies should be carried to term, and not aborted."

39. "Abortion denies choice to a man who wants to be a father."

40. "It was absurd to link a Constitutional right to privacy with legalization of abortion."

41. "Modern technology allows premature babies to survive (be 'viable'); therefore abortions should be prohibited for unborn humans that become viable per technical means, since they could be forcibly born and thereby acquire legal person status."

42. "Government should have the power to force women to carry unwanted pregnancies to term."

43. "In killing ordinary animals we attempt to do so in a painless manner, but abortion subjects the unborn human to extreme pain."

44. "Abortion increases the chance of a future miscarriage."

45. "The Hippocratic Oath forbids a doctor from performing an abortion."

46. "The U.S. Declaration of Independence specifies a Right to Life, which therefore forbids abortion."

47. "Abortion is a poor substitute for birth control."

48. "Behind the scenes of the abortion-legalization movement are those who would profit from it, such as abortion doctors."

49. "Abortion is usually demanded by selfish people. Since selfishness is bad, abortion should be prohibited."

50. "Abortion in America is preferentially (genocidally) being used to abort blacks over whites."

51. "Abortion is being used to kill more girls than boys in certain countries."

52. "Abortion causes psychological harm to the formerly pregnant woman."

53. "Abortion increases the chance of breast cancer."

54. "If abortions were as available as some people want, then humanity would eventually go extinct! Therefore abortions must be prevented!"

55. "The world needs more people."

56. "God wants us to be fruitful and multiply, even to the extent that sperm should not be wasted upon the ground; therefore abortion should be banned."

57. "Ban abortion and kill old people instead. Most of them are no better than babies --or even unborn humans-- at contributing anything to society, while most babies will grow up and become contributors to society. This also solves the Medicare and Social Security problems."

58. "Abortion is wrong because it results in the loss of a future of value."

59. "Abortion makes it more difficult for childless people to adopt a baby."
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Stephen_Hawkins
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6/30/2012 8:20:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I am using number 2 all the time now.
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16kadams
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6/30/2012 8:46:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 8:20:25 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
I am using number 2 all the time now.

Lol
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DetectableNinja
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6/30/2012 9:06:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 3:32:47 AM, elvroin_vonn_trazem wrote:
Twelve new items have been added. People who made suggestions should be able to recognize them after the editing I did. If anyone, on either side of the abortion debate, knows of an anti-abortion argument that is not on this list, please post it. Thanks in advance!

1. "All life is special. It is unfortunate that we have to kill other things to survive, but killing any other thing at any other time should be avoided."

2. "Native American culture mandates that if you kill it, you must eat it. Therefore abortion should be forbidden."

3. "There is such a thing as a 'right to life', and unborn humans have it."

4. "Human life is special."

5. "Human life is intrinsically valuable."

6. "Each human life is unique."

7. "Raping women into pregnancy, or tricking them into pregnancy, and then running away to continue to 'sow wild oats' far and wide, leaving lots of women with the task of raising offspring that carry the valuable and special and unique genes of the perpetrators, is a reason for said perpetrators to oppose abortion."

8. "Personhood obviously begins at conception because, if you consider the question, 'When did your life begin?', then where would you be if it had been aborted?"

9. "Unborn humans are persons, generically."

10. "Personhood is an innate characteristic of the human species; therefore unborn humans are persons."

11. "An unborn human is a person because there is no way to determine that it is not a person."

12. "Personhood is associated with the human body, and since unborn humans have human bodies, they are persons."

13. "Abortion might kill an Einstein."

14. "Human minds are special, so when brain activity begins, that is when personhood begins."

15. "Unborn humans have capacities that ordinary animals lack."

16. "Unborn humans are equivalent to ordinary humans who might be asleep or in a coma, because eventually they can wake up and act like persons."

17. "Unborn humans are human beings."

18. "Any uncertainty regarding the personhood of an unborn human means that we should err on the side of assuming that it has it."

19. "Facts that disqualify unborn humans from personhood also disqualify newborns from personhood, and therefore infanticide should be moral."

20. "Abortion is immoral."

21. "The Biblical Sixth Commandment forbids murder, and thereby also forbids abortion."

22. "Children are a gift from God."

23. "Unborn humans are persons because God gives them souls at conception."

24. "Abortion is dangerous."

25. "Abortion encourages discrimination against handicapped unborn humans."

26. "Terms such as 'embryo' and 'fetus' are de-humanizing."

27. "Unborn humans are innocent."

28. "Personhood and right-to-life can be associated with a particular kind of entity, and one of the characteristics of that kind is the ability to actively develop itself the point of qualifying for personhood. From the moment of conception, unborn humans are that kind of entity, and therefore abortion should be forbidden."

29. "There is no significant difference between an unborn human just prior to birth, and a newborn human."

30. "In cultures that subscribe to the idea that souls can 'reincarnate', abortion interferes with the long-term growth of a soul."

31. "Abortion is unethical."

32. "Abortion gives a woman bad karma."

33. "A woman may have the right to decide what happens to her body, but it is not her body that gets aborted."

34. "An unborn human is a baby or a child."

35. "Because it is not permissible to refuse temporary accommodation for a guest, to protect them from physical harm (per, for example, an ice storm), it is not permissible to refuse the temporary accommodation which is a pregnancy."

36. "Sex causes pregnancy, which forces responsibilities upon the participants."

37. "The primary purpose of sex is reproduction, so, whenever people have sex and pregnancy results, abortion must be prohibited."

38. "Since sex is voluntary, and is often accompanied with some risk that pregnancy will result, it follows that by choosing to take the risk and engage in sex, the participants are voluntarily accepting the consequences, regardless of how undesirable they might be. Therefore pregnancies should be carried to term, and not aborted."

39. "Abortion denies choice to a man who wants to be a father."

40. "It was absurd to link a Constitutional right to privacy with legalization of abortion."

41. "Modern technology allows premature babies to survive (be 'viable'); therefore abortions should be prohibited for unborn humans that become viable per technical means, since they could be forcibly born and thereby acquire legal person status."

42. "Government should have the power to force women to carry unwanted pregnancies to term."

43. "In killing ordinary animals we attempt to do so in a painless manner, but abortion subjects the unborn human to extreme pain."

44. "Abortion increases the chance of a future miscarriage."

45. "The Hippocratic Oath forbids a doctor from performing an abortion."

46. "The U.S. Declaration of Independence specifies a Right to Life, which therefore forbids abortion."

47. "Abortion is a poor substitute for birth control."

48. "Behind the scenes of the abortion-legalization movement are those who would profit from it, such as abortion doctors."

49. "Abortion is usually demanded by selfish people. Since selfishness is bad, abortion should be prohibited."

50. "Abortion in America is preferentially (genocidally) being used to abort blacks over whites."

51. "Abortion is being used to kill more girls than boys in certain countries."

52. "Abortion causes psychological harm to the formerly pregnant woman."

53. "Abortion increases the chance of breast cancer."

54. "If abortions were as available as some people want, then humanity would eventually go extinct! Therefore abortions must be prevented!"

55. "The world needs more people."

56. "God wants us to be fruitful and multiply, even to the extent that sperm should not be wasted upon the ground; therefore abortion should be banned."

57. "Ban abortion and kill old people instead. Most of them are no better than babies --or even unborn humans-- at contributing anything to society, while most babies will grow up and become contributors to society. This also solves the Medicare and Social Security problems."

58. "Abortion is wrong because it results in the loss of a future of value."

59. "Abortion makes it more difficult for childless people to adopt a baby."

You know what else makes it harder fr childless people to adopt a baby? Antigay politics.
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Lordknukle
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6/30/2012 3:11:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Please delete 3/4 of these.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
elvroin_vonn_trazem
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7/1/2012 4:37:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/30/2012 5:47:15 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
So why was another one of these created?

Simple. Elsewhere on this site I've stated that every single anti-abortion argument is fatally flawed (or words to that effect). Well, how can I prove it if I don't have a list of all anti-abortion arguments?
Don't tell me God is smart, and then describe to me the actions of a moron. A truly smart God is not going to do things that way!
Lordknukle
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7/1/2012 2:38:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/1/2012 4:37:48 AM, elvroin_vonn_trazem wrote:
At 6/30/2012 5:47:15 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
So why was another one of these created?

Simple. Elsewhere on this site I've stated that every single anti-abortion argument is fatally flawed (or words to that effect). Well, how can I prove it if I don't have a list of all anti-abortion arguments?

You are making up ridiculous reasons for why anti-abortion advocates don't support the practices. You are purposefully trying to demonize the other position.

Please remove at least 3/4 of them (because you just made them up), and then we'll talk.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
elvroin_vonn_trazem
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7/1/2012 3:14:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/1/2012 2:38:09 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
You are making up ridiculous reasons for why anti-abortion advocates don't support the practices. You are purposefully trying to demonize the other position.

Please remove at least 3/4 of them (because you just made them up), and then we'll talk.

As far as I am concerned, practically all anti-abortion arguments are ridiculous. I've placed them in that order mostly so that things proved in one can be used later on, without overly repeating myself.

One of your own favorite arguments appears to be this one (and the "property" argument isn't needed to refute it):

39. "Since sex is voluntary, and is often accompanied with some risk that pregnancy will result, it follows that by choosing to take the risk and engage in sex, the participants are voluntarily accepting the consequences, regardless of how undesirable they might be. Therefore pregnancies should be carried to term, and not aborted." FALSE, because there are plenty of other situations in which humans choose to do things, and refuse to accept the consequences. In an earthquake zone or a flood plain, for example, people buy insurance so that someone else will have to deal with the consequences! Also, humans will do things like build dikes in a flood plain, or irrigation canals in a desert, in response to (and refusing to accept) the consequences of having moved there. Then there are people who drink lots of alcohol and ruin their livers, but they can also obtain liver transplants. So, with all that precedent (and much more could be listed), why should sex-and-pregnancy be any different, especially when the unborn human is just an animal, and not a person?

Prior to #39 I tackle the unborn-human-is-a-person claim, multiple different ways (another reason for including so many anti-abortion arguments). I plan on posting the entire refutation of all the arguments tonight, after I get back from work.
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Lordknukle
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7/1/2012 5:20:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
LOL!

At 7/1/2012 3:14:34 PM, elvroin_vonn_trazem wrote:
At 7/1/2012 2:38:09 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
You are making up ridiculous reasons for why anti-abortion advocates don't support the practices. You are purposefully trying to demonize the other position.

Please remove at least 3/4 of them (because you just made them up), and then we'll talk.

As far as I am concerned, practically all anti-abortion arguments are ridiculous. I've placed them in that order mostly so that things proved in one can be used later on, without overly repeating myself.

One of your own favorite arguments appears to be this one (and the "property" argument isn't needed to refute it):

39. "Since sex is voluntary, and is often accompanied with some risk that pregnancy will result, it follows that by choosing to take the risk and engage in sex, the participants are voluntarily accepting the consequences, regardless of how undesirable they might be. Therefore pregnancies should be carried to term, and not aborted."

FALSE, because there are plenty of other situations in which humans choose to do things, and refuse to accept the consequences. In an earthquake zone or a flood plain, for example, people buy insurance so that someone else will have to deal with the consequences! Also, humans will do things like build dikes in a flood plain, or irrigation canals in a desert, in response to (and refusing to accept) the consequences of having moved there. Then there are people who drink lots of alcohol and ruin their livers, but they can also obtain liver transplants. So, with all that precedent (and much more could be listed), why should sex-and-pregnancy be any different, especially when the unborn human is just an animal, and not a person?

Like with all people, you seem to misinterpret my arguments into something that you can refute.

My original argument had very little to do with accepting consequences and was instead:

"By engaging in a voluntary activity (sex), you cannot say that the activity was "not your fault" or that "it violates your rights" because by just engaging in the act, you are allowing the fetus residence in your body as a result of your permissibility. In other words, its violation of property is justified because of your consent."

In essence, you are engaging in consensual sex, you are letting the fetus residence in your body because you accept the risk that the sex can result in the pregnancy.

However, the reason why you cannot abort it when you have given permissibility to it, is because it has a right to life and no rights are capable of violating this. This is obviously the major point of disagreement between the two sides.

Your analogies fail because even though you accept this risk of living in an earthquake prone area by living in it, getting help during an earthquake does not violate anybody else's right to life. In other words, the right to life and getting rid of this risk are not mutual. On the other hand, abortion requires that these two be completely mutual.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
tvellalott
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7/1/2012 7:19:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I understand the pro-life argument, accept its legitimacy but still reject it on the basis that an adults right to choose whether to have a baby or not outweighs the rights of a fetus.

Then there's the whole Cody Franklin "you're just making up rights and they're not really real" position... Which I also find to be valid (he puts it much more eloquently).
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elvroin_vonn_trazem
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7/2/2012 12:02:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/1/2012 5:20:08 PM, Lordknukle wrote:

At 7/1/2012 3:14:34 PM, elvroin_vonn_trazem wrote:

... humans will do things like build dikes in a flood plain, or irrigation canals in a desert, in response to (and refusing to accept) the consequences of having moved there. So, with all that precedent (and much more could be listed), why should sex-and-pregnancy be any different, especially when the unborn human is just an animal, and not a person?

Like with all people, you seem to misinterpret my arguments into something that you can refute.

My original argument had very little to do with accepting consequences and was instead:

"By engaging in a voluntary activity (sex), you cannot say that the activity was "not your fault" or that "it violates your rights" because by just engaging in the act, you are allowing the fetus residence in your body as a result of your permissibility. In other words, its violation of property is justified because of your consent."

In essence, you are engaging in consensual sex, you are letting the fetus residence in your body because you accept the risk that the sex can result in the pregnancy.

However, the reason why you cannot abort it when you have given permissibility to it, is because it has a right to life and no rights are capable of violating this. This is obviously the major point of disagreement between the two sides.

Your analogies fail because even though you accept this risk of living in an earthquake prone area by living in it, getting help during an earthquake does not violate anybody else's right to life. In other words, the right to life and getting rid of this risk are not mutual. On the other hand, abortion requires that these two be completely mutual.

I understand your argument QUITE well. It depends on the unstated claim that an unborn human is a person, since if it wasn't a person, it can't have an automatic right to life. (By the way, I suggest you look up what a "hydatidiform mole" is, because it also is a possible consequence of voluntary sex.) So, if that particular unstated claim (unborn is person) happens to NOT be true, then your argument collapses. It is that simple.
Don't tell me God is smart, and then describe to me the actions of a moron. A truly smart God is not going to do things that way!