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Alcohol is the real Gateway Drug.

mark.marrocco
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7/22/2012 3:21:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
According to this study: http://www.rawstory.com...

And according to this study, it's also the most harmful to society: http://www.bbc.co.uk...

Also noteworthy in the second study, is the fact that amphetamine (which we prescribe to children for "attentional issues") is rated as more harmful to individuals than cannabis, which is federally illegal for cancer-patients, neurological patients, and others who may benefit to take as medicine.

My question is, I suppose, how are we so irrational as a species and a society?
"Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence."
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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7/22/2012 6:33:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/22/2012 3:21:27 PM, mark.marrocco wrote:
According to this study: http://www.rawstory.com...

And according to this study, it's also the most harmful to society: http://www.bbc.co.uk...

Also noteworthy in the second study, is the fact that amphetamine (which we prescribe to children for "attentional issues") is rated as more harmful to individuals than cannabis, which is federally illegal for cancer-patients, neurological patients, and others who may benefit to take as medicine.

My question is, I suppose, how are we so irrational as a species and a society?

The answer is morality. With the privilege of intelligence comes the responsibility to use that intelligence selflessly. Selfishness is not generally recognized as negative; in fact we are trending even farther away from this. When's the last time you heard someone talk down about ambition? The bass-ackwardness you are seeing is a direct result of our failure to recognize morality for what it is. Greed is promoted for the false goals of growth and "progress." Responsibility is falsely attributed to making more money and more widgets as opposed to where it should be getting aimed at.

Why is morality being trampled upon? Why are we heading backwards as a species as time goes on? That's a tough question. Perhaps religion is mis-directing us; religious people are usually the most highly moral amongst us and religion does have a disarming effect on them. U.S. conservatives somehow team bible-thumpers up with military supporters and xenophobes. I can talk about how big business and advertising keeps us chasing that dollar but it's hard to figure out where the root cause is. I like to blame capitalism but it's a complex argument to make and the big problem becomes "what should replace it then?" The only sensible thing I can come up with is that each and every one of us needs to learn that selfishness is not in our best interest.
Rob
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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7/22/2012 6:36:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Alcohol does poison the moral person to the effect that it does an immoral one. Immoral people get drunk and have nothing to stop them from doing just about anything. If you understand the effects of anger, selfishness, lust, etc., however, alcohol is not half as damaging to your decision-making process.
Rob
bossyburrito
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7/22/2012 7:33:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The whole "Alcohol is worse than weed so weed should be legal" is sooo fvcking dumb. I read a post somewhere that was about how a mom was smoking weed and compared the effects to Wine. I don't care that wine is worse in terms of how it affects parenting, weed still shouldn't be used. Ideally, nothing should be needed to enhance your parenting skills. If you rely on something like weed, you are not fit to be a parent.

I support legalization, but not in a situation where a child is involved.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
mark.marrocco
Posts: 236
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7/22/2012 7:42:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/22/2012 7:33:02 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
The whole "Alcohol is worse than weed so weed should be legal" is sooo fvcking dumb. I read a post somewhere that was about how a mom was smoking weed and compared the effects to Wine. I don't care that wine is worse in terms of how it affects parenting, weed still shouldn't be used. Ideally, nothing should be needed to enhance your parenting skills. If you rely on something like weed, you are not fit to be a parent.

I support legalization, but not in a situation where a child is involved

I don't know where you got either the parental angle or the alcohol-is -bad -so -weed -should -be -legal angle from out of what I posted.

I think cannabis should be legal because it was made illegal on the basis of fearful prejudice and gross misconceptions, thus if it was made legal we could actually learn something about it and its effects on consciousness and health through scientific study.

Alcohol on the other hand has proven itself to be generally useless. I still don't think it should necessarily be made illegal (although universal car-breathalyzers I could support.)

I too would want parents to generally be responsible. Never said I didn't.
"Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence."
mark.marrocco
Posts: 236
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7/22/2012 7:47:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/22/2012 6:33:31 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 7/22/2012 3:21:27 PM, mark.marrocco wrote:
According to this study: http://www.rawstory.com...

And according to this study, it's also the most harmful to society: http://www.bbc.co.uk...

Also noteworthy in the second study, is the fact that amphetamine (which we prescribe to children for "attentional issues") is rated as more harmful to individuals than cannabis, which is federally illegal for cancer-patients, neurological patients, and others who may benefit to take as medicine.

My question is, I suppose, how are we so irrational as a species and a society?

The answer is morality. With the privilege of intelligence comes the responsibility to use that intelligence selflessly. Selfishness is not generally recognized as negative; in fact we are trending even farther away from this. When's the last time you heard someone talk down about ambition? The bass-ackwardness you are seeing is a direct result of our failure to recognize morality for what it is. Greed is promoted for the false goals of growth and "progress." Responsibility is falsely attributed to making more money and more widgets as opposed to where it should be getting aimed at.

Why is morality being trampled upon? Why are we heading backwards as a species as time goes on? That's a tough question. Perhaps religion is mis-directing us; religious people are usually the most highly moral amongst us and religion does have a disarming effect on them. U.S. conservatives somehow team bible-thumpers up with military supporters and xenophobes. I can talk about how big business and advertising keeps us chasing that dollar but it's hard to figure out where the root cause is. I like to blame capitalism but it's a complex argument to make and the big problem becomes "what should replace it then?" The only sensible thing I can come up with is that each and every one of us needs to learn that selfishness is not in our best interest.

Your view reflects my own quite a bit.

As for capitalism. I think money was the single worst invention in human history.

The most useful solution I've heard of, although admittedly idealistic: http://www.thevenusproject.com...
"Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence."
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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7/22/2012 8:00:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/22/2012 7:42:45 PM, mark.marrocco wrote:
At 7/22/2012 7:33:02 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
The whole "Alcohol is worse than weed so weed should be legal" is sooo fvcking dumb. I read a post somewhere that was about how a mom was smoking weed and compared the effects to Wine. I don't care that wine is worse in terms of how it affects parenting, weed still shouldn't be used. Ideally, nothing should be needed to enhance your parenting skills. If you rely on something like weed, you are not fit to be a parent.

I support legalization, but not in a situation where a child is involved

I don't know where you got either the parental angle or the alcohol-is -bad -so -weed -should -be -legal angle from out of what I posted.

I think cannabis should be legal because it was made illegal on the basis of fearful prejudice and gross misconceptions, thus if it was made legal we could actually learn something about it and its effects on consciousness and health through scientific study.

Alcohol on the other hand has proven itself to be generally useless. I still don't think it should necessarily be made illegal (although universal car-breathalyzers I could support.)

I too would want parents to generally be responsible. Never said I didn't.

I know you didn't, it's just that this is a common point that some people use often.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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7/22/2012 8:17:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Nearly 100% of people in the USA have tried alcohol. Most people don't try hard drugs. People should be given the freedom to choose to drink if they wish. Many people enjoy alcohol, and do not experience harmful effects. It makes sense that people will abuse lesser drugs (alcohol), before moving on to harder drugs. However, many people just do alcohol and do not move on to hard drugs.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,042
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7/22/2012 8:25:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What's irrational is prohibiting any drug at all.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
mark.marrocco
Posts: 236
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7/22/2012 8:50:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/22/2012 8:25:15 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
What's irrational is prohibiting any drug at all.

This.
"Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence."
mark.marrocco
Posts: 236
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7/22/2012 8:55:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/22/2012 8:17:31 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Nearly 100% of people in the USA have tried alcohol. Most people don't try hard drugs. People should be given the freedom to choose to drink if they wish. Many people enjoy alcohol, and do not experience harmful effects. It makes sense that people will abuse lesser drugs (alcohol), before moving on to harder drugs. However, many people just do alcohol and do not move on to hard drugs.

And I wasn't arguing for the illegalization of alcohol. I merely enjoy sharing new information, especially when it thoroughly destroys long-held social misconceptions.

That being said, nobody could use it long term without adverse health effects, unless they really moderated their use and exercised and ate healthfully and abstained from smoking tobacco. So, essentially, very few Americans could go long term without adverse health effects.
"Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence."
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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7/22/2012 9:30:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/22/2012 7:33:02 PM, bossyburrito wrote:

I support legalization, but not in a situation where a child is involved.

Trying to figure out exactly what you mean by this. We should lift prohibition, then reinstate it for people who have kids? That's a huge chunk of the population and I don't think it would make a whole lot of difference from where we are now. I don't even want to think of the conflicts of interest this starts creating for parents either...
Rob
twocupcakes
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7/22/2012 9:50:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago

And I wasn't arguing for the illegalization of alcohol. I merely enjoy sharing new information, especially when it thoroughly destroys long-held social misconceptions.

That being said, nobody could use it long term without adverse health effects, unless they really moderated their use and exercised and ate healthfully and abstained from smoking tobacco. So, essentially, very few Americans could go long term without adverse health effects.

Yes, if you get drunk everyday, clearly that cannot be healthy. However, studies do show that a glass of wine a day, or 1 beer a day can be part of a very healthy diet. Seeing as how more people use alcohol than hard drugs, it makes sense that alcohol is more harmful to society as a whole. Is there any general point you are trying to make, or just putting this info up for discussion?
mark.marrocco
Posts: 236
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7/22/2012 10:09:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/22/2012 9:50:26 PM, twocupcakes wrote:

And I wasn't arguing for the illegalization of alcohol. I merely enjoy sharing new information, especially when it thoroughly destroys long-held social misconceptions.

That being said, nobody could use it long term without adverse health effects, unless they really moderated their use and exercised and ate healthfully and abstained from smoking tobacco. So, essentially, very few Americans could go long term without adverse health effects.

Yes, if you get drunk everyday, clearly that cannot be healthy. However, studies do show that a glass of wine a day, or 1 beer a day can be part of a very healthy diet. Seeing as how more people use alcohol than hard drugs, it makes sense that alcohol is more harmful to society as a whole. Is there any general point you are trying to make, or just putting this info up for discussion?

I originally put the links up for discussion, because they show that a popular belief that has been held for decades is demonstrably false.

I just said that before. Other than that, no point. I'm aware of the benefits of moderate alcohol use, but they immediately reverse themselves once you hit between 2 and 5 drinks. So if I were to have a point now, it's that nobody could get away with drinking more than that on a regular basis without some adverse health effects. I guess my final point is don't try to out do me on health issues, because it's futile. (;
"Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence."
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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7/22/2012 11:04:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Fool: Of course it is.. any drug can be. Its not really falsibiable.

The question really boils down to you should you do any or nothing. It also depends on you experiences.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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7/22/2012 11:06:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/22/2012 7:33:02 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
The whole "Alcohol is worse than weed so weed should be legal" is sooo fvcking dumb. I read a post somewhere that was about how a mom was smoking weed and compared the effects to Wine. I don't care that wine is worse in terms of how it affects parenting, weed still shouldn't be used. Ideally, nothing should be needed to enhance your parenting skills. If you rely on something like weed, you are not fit to be a parent.

I support legalization, but not in a situation where a child is involved.

The Fool: we don;t even have an official Law against weed. They may just take it away. at most a small fine. But trafficing is a really serious charge.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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7/22/2012 11:11:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/22/2012 3:21:27 PM, mark.marrocco wrote:
According to this study: http://www.rawstory.com...

And according to this study, it's also the most harmful to society: http://www.bbc.co.uk...

Also noteworthy in the second study, is the fact that amphetamine (which we prescribe to children for "attentional issues") is rated as more harmful to individuals than cannabis, which is federally illegal for cancer-patients, neurological patients, and others who may benefit to take as medicine.

The Fool: You have to watch the lanuage. Its not harmfull to kids. only adults because of addiction potential. But its no harmfull at all under regular dose. Its hard on adult because they 'KNOW' if they take alot they can get high. Its only upon those conditions that it can get harmfull. Children dont' know that, so it doesn't harm them in regular doses / So you have to becarefi;; of the bais of the article. They use children to persua people. You guys have it Bad in America. It sounds like there is so much deception.

My question is, I suppose, how are we so irrational as a species and a society?
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
bossyburrito
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7/23/2012 3:30:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/22/2012 9:30:05 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 7/22/2012 7:33:02 PM, bossyburrito wrote:

I support legalization, but not in a situation where a child is involved.

Trying to figure out exactly what you mean by this. We should lift prohibition, then reinstate it for people who have kids? That's a huge chunk of the population and I don't think it would make a whole lot of difference from where we are now. I don't even want to think of the conflicts of interest this starts creating for parents either...

I believe that becoming a parent is one of the most selfless things you can do, because you are essentially dedicating a long portion of your life to a child's well-being. If something you do is bad for the child, it should be stopped.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
kogline
Posts: 134
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7/24/2012 11:20:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/22/2012 7:42:45 PM, mark.marrocco wrote:
At 7/22/2012 7:33:02 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
The whole "Alcohol is worse than weed so weed should be legal" is sooo fvcking dumb. I read a post somewhere that was about how a mom was smoking weed and compared the effects to Wine. I don't care that wine is worse in terms of how it affects parenting, weed still shouldn't be used. Ideally, nothing should be needed to enhance your parenting skills. If you rely on something like weed, you are not fit to be a parent.

I support legalization, but not in a situation where a child is involved

I don't know where you got either the parental angle or the alcohol-is -bad -so -weed -should -be -legal angle from out of what I posted.

I think cannabis should be legal because it was made illegal on the basis of fearful prejudice and gross misconceptions, thus if it was made legal we could actually learn something about it and its effects on consciousness and health through scientific study.

then why bring up alcohol? ^ this is reasonable and has nothing to do with alcohol, maybe you didnt explicitly say it but your post certainly had those overtones.

Alcohol on the other hand has proven itself to be generally useless. I still don't think it should necessarily be made illegal (although universal car-breathalyzers I could support.)

its fine if you dont like it, alot of other people do and would very much disagree with "useless"

I too would want parents to generally be responsible. Never said I didn't.

Ive had weed and ive had alcohol. alcohol is better. (my version of something some senator or someone said)

kidding aside i get angry too when potheads point out that alcohol is bad for you so weed should be legal. what happens when instead of legalizing weed they illegalize alcohol? probably a longshot thankfully but it still is a horrible reason to legalize something.

potheads know firsthand how much it sucks when their drug of choice is illegal, what do they have to gain by ruining it for someone else? work with the alcoholics and pill poppers they are gonna be the easiest to convert compared to the puritan sects of the two major parties.
if state farm has perfected teleportation technology why do they still sell car insurance?
kogline
Posts: 134
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7/24/2012 11:30:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
now that i actually read the rest of the posts i agree with the fool and lasagna(i agree with his question? i guess i just mean he brings up a good point to bossy)

also what common social myth are you talking about? that alcohol abuse is good for you? this has been widely known as false by almost all societies for all of recorded history.

also have you guys seen the new dutch study

http://reason.com...

they called moderate drinking during pregnancy like 2-8 drinks per week. no significant harmful effects documented.

even the category that was only like >8 drinks per week found a weak connection to add.
if state farm has perfected teleportation technology why do they still sell car insurance?
kogline
Posts: 134
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7/24/2012 11:38:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
lol i was just reading the other thread about why incest is wrong and it reminded me of another thing that bothers me.

1)the pothead who thinks alcohol should be illegal

2) gay rights activist who thinks making fun of gays should be a hate crime and then makes fun of people in the south fvcking their sisters.

i see a very similar hypocrisy in both these types of people. again im not accusing you op of being one of these, but you did start your thread with the inflammatory title "alcohol is the real gate way drug"
if state farm has perfected teleportation technology why do they still sell car insurance?
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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7/26/2012 1:41:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/24/2012 11:38:45 PM, kogline wrote:
lol i was just reading the other thread about why incest is wrong and it reminded me of another thing that bothers me.

1)the pothead who thinks alcohol should be illegal

2) gay rights activist who thinks making fun of gays should be a hate crime and then makes fun of people in the south fvcking their sisters.

i see a very similar hypocrisy in both these types of people. again im not accusing you op of being one of these, but you did start your thread with the inflammatory title "alcohol is the real gate way drug"

Cannabis-supporters often attack alcohol, but I don't think any of them really want it prohibited. This is a common tactic simply to use alcohol as leverage to justify ending prohibition of cannabis. Since alcoholic-prohibition was lifted in the '20s, it has gained a firm hold in our culture and there probably will never again be a threat to its legality, so by attacking it as far worse than cannabis, we are essentially creating the paradigm that cannabis is far safer than something that is perfectly legal and acceptable. Indeed this is one of the biggest problems for the main-stream, because alcohol is so acutely damaging in so many respects. It is common for the anti-drug crowd to circumvent these arguments with phrases like "it can't be tested for while operating a motor vehicle," or "it's a gate-way to hard-drugs," but clearly these complaints in and of themselves are not grounds enough for prohibition. The aggravating thing is that logic has never been on the anti-drug crowd's side at all, however there's such a cultural bias against it that the main-stream politicians will not touch it with a ten-foot pole. The general idea, I believe, is that if it were legalized it would be legitimized and more people would start using it. I don't believe this is the case at all because those who wish to use it already do and those who don't want to use it aren't going to start just because they aren't going to be arrested for it. Either you like it or you don't. Just like cigarettes, coffee, and many other things, it either agrees with you or it doesn't.

I think that another big reason why people don't generally support lifting prohibition is because of how it might affect the workplace. It's generally considered immoral to be high at work, even if you don't do something that is particularly useful or carries great responsibility (e.g., driving). It is contrary to a good "work ethic" and people nowadays are so concerned with things like unemployment (because they mistakenly believe that our economic woes are a result of people not working hard enough) that letting people get high is the last thing they want. I would say this is at the very heart of why prohibition remains.
Rob
mark.marrocco
Posts: 236
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7/26/2012 12:09:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/24/2012 11:30:40 PM, kogline wrote:
now that i actually read the rest of the posts i agree with the fool and lasagna(i agree with his question? i guess i just mean he brings up a good point to bossy)

also what common social myth are you talking about? that alcohol abuse is good for you? this has been widely known as false by almost all societies for all of recorded history.

also have you guys seen the new dutch study

http://reason.com...

they called moderate drinking during pregnancy like 2-8 drinks per week. no significant harmful effects documented.

even the category that was only like >8 drinks per week found a weak connection to add.

I highly doubt that one study conclusively disproves that alcohol is harmful to the development during pregnancy. It depends a lot on which timeframe during the pregnancy the alcohol is used, and obviously on how much alcohol. The brain develops in very different stages during pregnancy, and drinking during at least one of them has already been proven to cause serious problems. This is all irrelevant to my point, though.

The social misconception I was addressing was that marijuana is the "gateway drug" when it clearly is not. This study suggests that licit substances such as alcohol and cigarettes actually act as the gateway drugs to illicit substances, such as marijuana and the rest.
"Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence."
mark.marrocco
Posts: 236
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7/26/2012 12:18:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/24/2012 11:20:53 PM, kogline wrote:
At 7/22/2012 7:42:45 PM, mark.marrocco wrote:
At 7/22/2012 7:33:02 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
The whole "Alcohol is worse than weed so weed should be legal" is sooo fvcking dumb. I read a post somewhere that was about how a mom was smoking weed and compared the effects to Wine. I don't care that wine is worse in terms of how it affects parenting, weed still shouldn't be used. Ideally, nothing should be needed to enhance your parenting skills. If you rely on something like weed, you are not fit to be a parent.

I support legalization, but not in a situation where a child is involved

I don't know where you got either the parental angle or the alcohol-is -bad -so -weed -should -be -legal angle from out of what I posted.

I think cannabis should be legal because it was made illegal on the basis of fearful prejudice and gross misconceptions, thus if it was made legal we could actually learn something about it and its effects on consciousness and health through scientific study.

then why bring up alcohol? ^ this is reasonable and has nothing to do with alcohol, maybe you didnt explicitly say it but your post certainly had those overtones.

No it didn't have those overtones. I will explicitly say I don't think any drug should be illegal at all, at all. You misinterpreted the study, if you read it. The only reason alcohol is prominent in this discussion is because it is the most widely used legal drug that actually acts as the gateway drug to illegal drugs, as the study suggests.

Alcohol on the other hand has proven itself to be generally useless. I still don't think it should necessarily be made illegal (although universal car-breathalyzers I could support.)

its fine if you dont like it, alot of other people do and would very much disagree with "useless"

Just my opinion, I guess. I could make a strong case that in the utilitarian sense, however, that its impact is negative overall.

I too would want parents to generally be responsible. Never said I didn't.



Ive had weed and ive had alcohol. alcohol is better. (my version of something some senator or someone said)

Your opinion. Mine differs. lol

kidding aside i get angry too when potheads point out that alcohol is bad for you so weed should be legal. what happens when instead of legalizing weed they illegalize alcohol? probably a longshot thankfully but it still is a horrible reason to legalize something.

potheads know firsthand how much it sucks when their drug of choice is illegal, what do they have to gain by ruining it for someone else? work with the alcoholics and pill poppers they are gonna be the easiest to convert compared to the puritan sects of the two major parties.

This was never my position. I'm an equal-opportunity drug supporter. Even the immediately harmful ones would have their negative impacts greatly reduced by being decriminalized (to get rid of drug violence, and unnecessary prison populations, etc.), legalized for scientific study, and regulated for consumption for whoever might want to do such a thing, but at least they would then have scientifically-informed educational resources to help them influence their decisions, and to help them make their habits safer and more efficient.
"Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence."
mark.marrocco
Posts: 236
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7/26/2012 12:22:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/24/2012 11:38:45 PM, kogline wrote:
lol i was just reading the other thread about why incest is wrong and it reminded me of another thing that bothers me.

1)the pothead who thinks alcohol should be illegal

2) gay rights activist who thinks making fun of gays should be a hate crime and then makes fun of people in the south fvcking their sisters.

i see a very similar hypocrisy in both these types of people. again im not accusing you op of being one of these, but you did start your thread with the inflammatory title "alcohol is the real gate way drug"

LOL what?

1) I'm probably biased toward pot, but I'm aware that's my subjective preference, and I have no desire to see alcohol made illegal.

2) I don't see how this is relevant at all. I didn't use this logic in any place, am not gay, nor did I make any anti-incest statements. I don't even support the idea of "hate crimes" necessarily.

Inflammatory title? That was the title of the study, more or less. And its methodology makes a fairly strong case to support it, unlike the crap that passed as science for decades to support the notion that it was marijuana, or that marijuana was overtly harmful.
"Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence."
kogline
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7/28/2012 12:49:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago

This was never my position. I'm an equal-opportunity drug supporter. Even the immediately harmful ones would have their negative impacts greatly reduced by being decriminalized (to get rid of drug violence, and unnecessary prison populations, etc.), legalized for scientific study, and regulated for consumption for whoever might want to do such a thing, but at least they would then have scientifically-informed educational resources to help them influence their decisions, and to help them make their habits safer and more efficient.

including all prescription ones? i like everything you said here, also the above post was just some things ive heard that irritate me. i said in it that it wasnt aimed at you.

lasagna you're probably right but i still dont like the argument. maybe its neccessary to make progress on legalization but it feels wrong.
heres four other ones that bother me as well

http://www.cracked.com...

it also mentions one of the reasons why i personally dont use marijuana, ive got some anxiety disorders and it puts them on overdrive.
if state farm has perfected teleportation technology why do they still sell car insurance?
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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7/29/2012 11:22:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What the Fool knows. Or claims. That crazy guy. Thinks he knows everything.

During pregancy:

Cigarettes increase in likley hood of children with ADD and burn premature. AKA slows down development having a permant impact.

Alchohol: Devastating effect on brain development.

Weed: strong effect then cigarrets. Exposed children need to use more cognitive resources to solve the same problems of other.

Smoking Weed at a young age has the same effect on brain resources. That is the brain doesn't fully complete development untill, 18 to 20. People who have smoked alot before. Show and increased use of brain resources on MRI then those you did'nt. This suggest that its harder for those to solve the same intellectual problem then those who didn't.. I learned this from Neuroscience, class. There have been no substantial test on later users.

I would say drugs in general destroy attention span(ability to concentrate. especially on abstract thinking.) over time.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
mark.marrocco
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8/3/2012 4:46:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/28/2012 12:49:26 PM, kogline wrote:

This was never my position. I'm an equal-opportunity drug supporter. Even the immediately harmful ones would have their negative impacts greatly reduced by being decriminalized (to get rid of drug violence, and unnecessary prison populations, etc.), legalized for scientific study, and regulated for consumption for whoever might want to do such a thing, but at least they would then have scientifically-informed educational resources to help them influence their decisions, and to help them make their habits safer and more efficient.

including all prescription ones? i like everything you said here, also the above post was just some things ive heard that irritate me. i said in it that it wasnt aimed at you.


I'm not sure I understand the prescription drug question. Do I support them too? I don't think they should necessarily be illegal, like any drugs, but I think they are more harmful overall than illegal drugs, because they're intentionally designed and marketed to make profits first, and treat illness second. They're overused to an incredible degree as well. Most of them should never be created, let alone mass-marketed, in the first place. The big pharma companies push them through research trials much too fast to be certain of their safety. Tylenol, for instance, is now being shown to do tremendous liver damage. Not good.

lasagna you're probably right but i still dont like the argument. maybe its neccessary to make progress on legalization but it feels wrong.
heres four other ones that bother me as well

http://www.cracked.com...

it also mentions one of the reasons why i personally dont use marijuana, ive got some anxiety disorders and it puts them on overdrive.

^ Yeah that happens, like I said it's personal preference for different reasons, this is one of them for many people. Just another reason the choice shouldn't be dictated by law.
"Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence."
CrazyPerson
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8/3/2012 4:53:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/22/2012 3:21:27 PM, mark.marrocco wrote:
According to this study: http://www.rawstory.com...

The first drug i ever tried was inhalants, then marijuana, then adderall and hydrocodone, and later everything else. The gateway for me personally was the anti-drug videos we watched and classes we took in middle school and high school.

And according to this study, it's also the most harmful to society: http://www.bbc.co.uk...

I would agree with that without even reading the article.

Also noteworthy in the second study, is the fact that amphetamine (which we prescribe to children for "attentional issues") is rated as more harmful to individuals than cannabis, which is federally illegal for cancer-patients, neurological patients, and others who may benefit to take as medicine.

This is common knowledge i think. Hard stimulants are extremely toxic to the brain and neurological system as well as terrible on the cardiovascular system, whereas marijuana isn't harsh on anything.

My question is, I suppose, how are we so irrational as a species and a society?

We aren't really, it's just the greed and selfishness of the pharmaceutical companies that leads to widespread misinformation about medicine and drugs.
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
- - - Watts
CrazyPerson
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8/3/2012 4:59:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/22/2012 8:17:31 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Nearly 100% of people in the USA have tried alcohol. Most people don't try hard drugs. People should be given the freedom to choose to drink if they wish. Many people enjoy alcohol, and do not experience harmful effects. It makes sense that people will abuse lesser drugs (alcohol), before moving on to harder drugs. However, many people just do alcohol and do not move on to hard drugs.

Alcohol is just as hard of a drug as heroin (opiates) or cocaine (stimulants), with an even stronger addictive complex and even more severe acute intoxication. Alcohol is in no way a 'lesser' drug, and is responsible for more health complications than all other drugs combined. I believe that anyone who responsibly uses alcohol could also responsibly use any other drug, just the same that any alcoholic would most likely turn into an addict should he or she try a hard drug.
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
- - - Watts