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Suicide: Escape or Punishment?

tulle
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10/14/2012 6:14:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm sure by now you've heard of Amanda Todd, a Canadian teen who was bullied to the point of suicide. http://www.thestar.com...

Every once in a while we'll hear a new story of someone killing themselves because of bullies. It seems the onus is placed solely on the bullies, thus providing people with a means of punishing their bullies through death. Should there be more accountability placed on the actions of the person who killed himself/herself? Do you believe suicide from bullying is glorified? What do you think the cultural impact of the feedback to Amanda's death and the deaths of other bullied teens (negative and positive) is?
yang.
darkkermit
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10/14/2012 6:35:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Do you think bullies get too much blame for someone's suicide? I think its kind of absurd to blame someone's suicide on bullies. There are so many factors that cause someone to commit suicide, not just bullying, and in the end, the person is consciously doing the act, not the bullies .
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Zaradi
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10/14/2012 6:35:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Suicide from bullying is a bit overly glorified. Sure, bullying is a bit of a problem. Sure, suicide does suck. But it's called sucking it up and moving on. This is coming from a person who knows what it's like to be bulled and has been bullied as far back as he can care remember. We shouldn't be giving these people martyrdom once they commit suicide, since it only encourages those who are dealing with bullying that suicide is a viable way out since they end the suffering and they can know that those who were causing their suffering would get punished as driving him to suicide.
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tulle
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10/14/2012 6:41:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 6:35:35 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Do you think bullies get too much blame for someone's suicide?

Yes. Ever heard the saying "Other people can't make you angry, anger is something you choose to feel"? That's what I think about every emotion. Yes, bullying is bad, but people need to be held more accountable to their own emotions and thoughts.

I think its kind of absurd to blame someone's suicide on bullies. There are so many factors that cause someone to commit suicide, not just bullying, and in the end, the person is consciously doing the act, not the bullies .

Exactly. What bothers me is these Facebook pages where no one is placing any sort of accountability on the person who chose to end their life. Yes, what happened is a tragedy and yes, it's a shame that it happened. But the response only shows teens who are bullied that a good way to get back at their bully is to kill themselves and make them feel guilty. The suicide becomes less about escape and more about punishment, like "See what you made me do? I hope you're happy now!" And I think that's a problem.
yang.
OberHerr
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10/14/2012 6:42:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Suicide IMO is too easily blamed on outside force. Often its people being cowardly, and not facing life and moving on. I know that sounds harsh, but from what I know, its true. People who commit suicide are rarely thinking of anyone but themselves, and are being cowards.

And, yes I think suicide in general is over glorified.
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tvellalott
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10/14/2012 6:43:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 6:14:33 PM, tulle wrote:
I'm sure by now you've heard of Amanda Todd, a Canadian teen who was bullied to the point of suicide. http://www.thestar.com...

Every once in a while we'll hear a new story of someone killing themselves because of bullies. It seems the onus is placed solely on the bullies, thus providing people with a means of punishing their bullies through death. Should there be more accountability placed on the actions of the person who killed himself/herself? Do you believe suicide from bullying is glorified? What do you think the cultural impact of the feedback to Amanda's death and the deaths of other bullied teens (negative and positive) is?

I do believe that suicide from bullying is glorified, especially by our fvcked up media and political correctness obsessed society. I wish for once we could see the real impact; apathy and even pleasure from those who caused it (because lets be realistic, most bullies are fvcked up individuals or they wouldn't be bullies) and agony from those who actually cared. I've always thought that suicide was an extremely short-sighted, blindly weak and selfish, typical stupid teenage thing to do; that being treated like a piece of sh!t in High School is so hard that you can't live another day on this Earth and that when you kill yourself everyone will finally acknowledge your existence. Puh-lease.
I wouldn't be surprised if most people on DDO got/get treated like sh!t in High School (I know I did). Physically bullied by other boys and teased relentlessly by girls. High School was sh!t until Year 10 when the "stop giving a fvck" switch was flicked.
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CrazyPerson
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10/14/2012 6:44:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The only way someone is to blame for another's suicide is when it is situationally forced, at which point i think it is or should be considered murder.
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tulle
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10/14/2012 6:45:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 6:35:37 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Suicide from bullying is a bit overly glorified. Sure, bullying is a bit of a problem. Sure, suicide does suck. But it's called sucking it up and moving on. This is coming from a person who knows what it's like to be bulled and has been bullied as far back as he can care remember. We shouldn't be giving these people martyrdom once they commit suicide, since it only encourages those who are dealing with bullying that suicide is a viable way out since they end the suffering and they can know that those who were causing their suffering would get punished as driving him to suicide.

I think the word "martyrdom" pretty much sums it up. However, I wouldn't minimize the problem that bullying is and I do believe that the behaviour of bullies (for example, in Amanda Todd's case) is absolutely disgusting.
yang.
darkkermit
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10/14/2012 6:46:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 6:41:41 PM, tulle wrote:
At 10/14/2012 6:35:35 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Do you think bullies get too much blame for someone's suicide?

Yes. Ever heard the saying "Other people can't make you angry, anger is something you choose to feel"? That's what I think about every emotion. Yes, bullying is bad, but people need to be held more accountable to their own emotions and thoughts.

I think its kind of absurd to blame someone's suicide on bullies. There are so many factors that cause someone to commit suicide, not just bullying, and in the end, the person is consciously doing the act, not the bullies .

Exactly. What bothers me is these Facebook pages where no one is placing any sort of accountability on the person who chose to end their life. Yes, what happened is a tragedy and yes, it's a shame that it happened. But the response only shows teens who are bullied that a good way to get back at their bully is to kill themselves and make them feel guilty. The suicide becomes less about escape and more about punishment, like "See what you made me do? I hope you're happy now!" And I think that's a problem.

Somehow I doubt that these pages reinforce suicide behavior. I don't see how a person should be "accountable" for their decision. I'm not saying that suicide is something you should do, but I don't see how we should be stating that suicide is something you shouldn't do either. In the end, its the individuals choice.
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darkkermit
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10/14/2012 6:48:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Most people don't commit suicide as a form of "revenge". They usually do it as the only means they have left to escape their situation.
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OberHerr
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10/14/2012 6:49:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 6:48:12 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Most people don't commit suicide as a form of "revenge". They usually do it as the only means they have left to escape their situation.

Rarely are they out of options, especially if its in a firs-world country. Most of the time its an escape from facing life.
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tvellalott
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10/14/2012 6:52:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 6:48:12 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Most people don't commit suicide as a form of "revenge". They usually do it as the only means they have left to escape their situation.

The OP specifically mentioned "suicide due to bullying".
What I said above certainly doesn't apply to all suicides and probably only to a minority.
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tulle
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10/14/2012 6:52:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 6:46:52 PM, darkkermit wrote:

Somehow I doubt that these pages reinforce suicide behavior. I don't see how a person should be "accountable" for their decision. I'm not saying that suicide is something you should do, but I don't see how we should be stating that suicide is something you shouldn't do either. In the end, its the individuals choice.

Past exposure to suicide is actually a risk factor for a person committing suicide. That includes people directly in your life, and public figures (eg. celebrities and people who are all over the news, such as Amanda Todd).

Why shouldn't a person be accountable for the own action? As it stands, the bullies are held accountable for the person killing himself/herself. As you stated, in the end, it is the individual's choice, and yet the bullies are being blamed. I'm not suggesting "blame" should be placed anywhere. Just accountability.
yang.
tulle
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10/14/2012 6:54:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 6:48:12 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Most people don't commit suicide as a form of "revenge". They usually do it as the only means they have left to escape their situation.

Right. But suicide due to bullying may be becoming a form of revenge, in addition to escape.
yang.
darkkermit
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10/14/2012 6:55:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 6:49:33 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 10/14/2012 6:48:12 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Most people don't commit suicide as a form of "revenge". They usually do it as the only means they have left to escape their situation.

Rarely are they out of options, especially if its in a firs-world country. Most of the time its an escape from facing life.

Oh come on, you think that just because someone lives in a first world nation that automatically means they should be happy. There was actually an interesting video of some refuge camp people who came to live in ameirca. They actually expressed quite a bit of problems from living in America and one guy had a mental breakdown.
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darkkermit
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10/14/2012 6:56:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 6:52:59 PM, tulle wrote:
At 10/14/2012 6:46:52 PM, darkkermit wrote:

Somehow I doubt that these pages reinforce suicide behavior. I don't see how a person should be "accountable" for their decision. I'm not saying that suicide is something you should do, but I don't see how we should be stating that suicide is something you shouldn't do either. In the end, its the individuals choice.

Past exposure to suicide is actually a risk factor for a person committing suicide. That includes people directly in your life, and public figures (eg. celebrities and people who are all over the news, such as Amanda Todd).

Why shouldn't a person be accountable for the own action? As it stands, the bullies are held accountable for the person killing himself/herself. As you stated, in the end, it is the individual's choice, and yet the bullies are being blamed. I'm not suggesting "blame" should be placed anywhere. Just accountability.

I don't think either person should be accountable. It just is. Sh1t happens.
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darkkermit
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10/14/2012 6:59:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 6:52:59 PM, tulle wrote:
At 10/14/2012 6:46:52 PM, darkkermit wrote:

Somehow I doubt that these pages reinforce suicide behavior. I don't see how a person should be "accountable" for their decision. I'm not saying that suicide is something you should do, but I don't see how we should be stating that suicide is something you shouldn't do either. In the end, its the individuals choice.

Past exposure to suicide is actually a risk factor for a person committing suicide. That includes people directly in your life, and public figures (eg. celebrities and people who are all over the news, such as Amanda Todd).

fair enough.

Also, I doubt Amanda Todd would be in the news if she wasn't an attractive female. My two cents. There was actually someone in my high school that I knew pretty well who committed suicide from bullying, so I have some personal experience with the situation.
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tulle
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10/14/2012 7:01:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 6:59:08 PM, darkkermit wrote:

fair enough.

Also, I doubt Amanda Todd would be in the news if she wasn't an attractive female. My two cents. There was actually someone in my high school that I knew pretty well who committed suicide from bullying, so I have some personal experience with the situation.

That's another thing that's sort of frustrating. People saying things like "It's such a shame, she was so beautiful" as though attractiveness makes it any more or less of a tragedy. Sometimes I hate society.
yang.
darkkermit
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10/14/2012 7:06:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
For the person in my school who did commit suicide, there was no "glorifying of it". In fact, quite the opposite, it seemed that most people didn't care much about it at all. There were 2 other people in my hs that died, and the school held a public memorial for these 2 people. The school basically shut down for the day and their open wakes consisted of probably a thousand people attending. I hate to wait 3 hours to just pass through the wake, and for the guy who committed suicide, I just walked in and was able to get a seat and stay.
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tulle
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10/14/2012 7:07:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 6:56:55 PM, darkkermit wrote:

I don't think either person should be accountable. It just is. Sh1t happens.

But our society's focus is suicide prevention, so we do need to discern the root problems of the behaviour in order to reduce it.

If you look at physically health you could also say "sh!t happens" and leave it at that. But rather, we look for causes in order to see what we need to change or do to improve our physical health. We hold things accountable for certain physical diseases and ailments even though sh!t happens. I don't see how this is different.
yang.
darkkermit
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10/14/2012 7:08:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 7:01:44 PM, tulle wrote:
At 10/14/2012 6:59:08 PM, darkkermit wrote:

fair enough.

Also, I doubt Amanda Todd would be in the news if she wasn't an attractive female. My two cents. There was actually someone in my high school that I knew pretty well who committed suicide from bullying, so I have some personal experience with the situation.

That's another thing that's sort of frustrating. People saying things like "It's such a shame, she was so beautiful" as though attractiveness makes it any more or less of a tragedy. Sometimes I hate society.

Lol. I just go with these kinds of things now. I just taken as a given.
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tulle
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10/14/2012 7:12:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 7:06:17 PM, darkkermit wrote:
For the person in my school who did commit suicide, there was no "glorifying of it". In fact, quite the opposite, it seemed that most people didn't care much about it at all. There were 2 other people in my hs that died, and the school held a public memorial for these 2 people. The school basically shut down for the day and their open wakes consisted of probably a thousand people attending. I hate to wait 3 hours to just pass through the wake, and for the guy who committed suicide, I just walked in and was able to get a seat and stay.

That sucks, man (for the guy who killed himself and no one cared). I only heard of one girl from my high school who killed herself and, by then, she had already dropped out so nothing really happened after that.

Things have changed a lot since we were in high school though lol and with Social Media, I think the anti-bullying message is being spread more. Doesn't seem to be as much focus on suicide prevention though.
yang.
darkkermit
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10/14/2012 7:13:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 7:07:06 PM, tulle wrote:
At 10/14/2012 6:56:55 PM, darkkermit wrote:

I don't think either person should be accountable. It just is. Sh1t happens.

But our society's focus is suicide prevention, so we do need to discern the root problems of the behaviour in order to reduce it.

I don't believe that we should focus on suicide prevention as an ends to themselves. I think what's more important is the sadness and depression that caused them to commit suicide. But it shouldn't be "Oh we should guilt people to not commit suicide, so that way they can live out their lives in misery and despair"

If you look at physically health you could also say "sh!t happens" and leave it at that. But rather, we look for causes in order to see what we need to change or do to improve our physical health. We hold things accountable for certain physical diseases and ailments even though sh!t happens. I don't see how this is different.

But the problem changes once its about someone's voluntary actions.
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tulle
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10/14/2012 7:15:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 7:13:07 PM, darkkermit wrote:

I don't believe that we should focus on suicide prevention as an ends to themselves. I think what's more important is the sadness and depression that caused them to commit suicide. But it shouldn't be "Oh we should guilt people to not commit suicide, so that way they can live out their lives in misery and despair"


I agree.


If you look at physically health you could also say "sh!t happens" and leave it at that. But rather, we look for causes in order to see what we need to change or do to improve our physical health. We hold things accountable for certain physical diseases and ailments even though sh!t happens. I don't see how this is different.

But the problem changes once its about someone's voluntary actions.

What do you mean? If someone voluntarily smokes, we can hold him accountable if and when he gets lung cancer. Sure, sh!t happens, but you choose to live your life how you want. You also choose to end it.
yang.
darkkermit
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10/14/2012 7:19:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 7:12:05 PM, tulle wrote:
At 10/14/2012 7:06:17 PM, darkkermit wrote:
For the person in my school who did commit suicide, there was no "glorifying of it". In fact, quite the opposite, it seemed that most people didn't care much about it at all. There were 2 other people in my hs that died, and the school held a public memorial for these 2 people. The school basically shut down for the day and their open wakes consisted of probably a thousand people attending. I hate to wait 3 hours to just pass through the wake, and for the guy who committed suicide, I just walked in and was able to get a seat and stay.

That sucks, man (for the guy who killed himself and no one cared). I only heard of one girl from my high school who killed herself and, by then, she had already dropped out so nothing really happened after that.

Things have changed a lot since we were in high school though lol and with Social Media, I think the anti-bullying message is being spread more. Doesn't seem to be as much focus on suicide prevention though.

I don't think so. The media will pick up a story and make it "their story", but this doesn't work on a case to case basis. A lot of people commit suicide and only a few of them get to be news stories.

Interesting enough, people would defend the school's action of not hosting a memorial service for the suicide because it was a suicide and not an accident. But really, the honest truth was that the guy wasn't that popular, so less people weren't as sad as when the more popular people died in my high school. Either that, or people just felt kind of guilty so blocked it out. Could've been a combination of both.
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tulle
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10/14/2012 7:22:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/14/2012 7:19:05 PM, darkkermit wrote:

I don't think so. The media will pick up a story and make it "their story", but this doesn't work on a case to case basis. A lot of people commit suicide and only a few of them get to be news stories.


Fair enough.

Interesting enough, people would defend the school's action of not hosting a memorial service for the suicide because it was a suicide and not an accident. But really, the honest truth was that the guy wasn't that popular, so less people weren't as sad as when the more popular people died in my high school. Either that, or people just felt kind of guilty so blocked it out. Could've been a combination of both.

Possibly.
yang.