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phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/12/2012 10:38:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
After watching and reading various videos and articles, I have to say I am disgusted at the American system of food production. The happy-animal-farm-yard picture Americans often have is far far from reality for the vast majority of food production. Cows stand cramped up standing knee deep in their own crap. Chickens get their beaks chopped off so they don't peck each others eyes out in their cramped up spaces. They're average size is also way larger than it used to be since they're stuffed with drugs and steroids that they can barely take two steps without falling over from their weight. Pigs and poultry never see the light of day. Corporations run farming businesses to the ground by finding legal ways to sue them if they don't comply with their interests. They also basically own the ones that are under them since the farmers are under such debt and get such little pay. And they can't just pay off their debt because the corporations require them to keep buying new equipment. One farmer lost her business because she refused the request to house her chickens in a way which would allow them to get zero sunlight. Something like 75% of all meat comes from one corporation. There are only a few major meat corporations and they make up almost the entire supply in America. Unfortunately the only way to produce such a large amount of meat is to use unethical methods or as one farmer said "It's hard to keep your soul if you're producing for a large amount of consumers." There are farms who operate under ethical standards but they can't satisfy a large need because they are simply unable to be both successful and ethical. Those farms actually feed grass to their cattle. The other factories give them corn, something that their evolved bodies aren't fitted for. And unlike if they were fed grass and lived in non-cramped fields, all the crap that comes out the other end has to be shoveled out and gotten rid of, resulting in pollution that the tax payers often half to pay for. What's worse is that we have an oversupply of meat. We don't need all this meat that's being produced and much of it gets wasted. Moreover health industries have largely overrated the health benefits of meat resulting in the false impression that we require it. In fact it's getting less healthy since animals are fed antibiotics all the time to keep them alive resulting in allergic reactions or our growing immune to the drugs. Plus drugs are simply not healthy to take on a regular basis and if we eat what experienced that, it's not good for us. The politics that's involved is also disgusting. People like Clarence Thomas also have roles with food corporations so that their political moves are motivated by what's in the best interest of the food industry. In fact that's one reason why under the Clinton and Bush administrations certain regulations and bills were not passed that absolutely should have. The food industry is corrupted and immoral.

/End rant

God, I'm feeling like one of those environmentally fed-up liberals.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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11/13/2012 3:24:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't know man, I just eat baked potatoes.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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11/13/2012 3:28:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 3:15:11 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
If you care about cows why don't you care about insects? What about fleas and ants. If not, your a hypocrite.

Insects don't feel pain.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/13/2012 3:35:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 3:15:11 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
If you care about cows why don't you care about insects? What about fleas and ants. If not, your a hypocrite.

If you care about humans why don't you care about animals? If you don't than you're a hypocrite. Not really. Just pointing out your flawed logic.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/13/2012 3:36:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 3:13:17 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
1. See block of text.
2. Attempt to scan.
3. Brain freezes up.
4. Leave thread.

Not sure why I didn't put it in paragraphs.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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11/13/2012 4:05:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 3:15:11 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
If you care about cows why don't you care about insects? What about fleas and ants. If not, your a hypocrite.

If you don't care about cows, why do you care about humans?
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/13/2012 4:07:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 3:53:30 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
So do you think we should reform the system? Or should we become vegans? Whats the alternative?

I think almost any average American would want to reform it since it's unhealthy, produces lower quality food and is harmful to the environment. Those who care about the ethical treatment of animals would also want to reform it because it goes past the point of cruelty. I'm not saying you should be vegan or vegetarian. If I bought my own food though, I would definitely be more vegetarian and also research places to buy food from. And why not anyway? Wouldn't you rather eat a burger that's from a cow who lived a nourished life outdoors, eating grass and not pumped with drugs, fed almost just corn which isn't natural for them, and entered the slaughter house caked in it's own manure?

I advocate reform but I'd also advocate individuals to change their habits as well. Walmart started doing business with organic farmers for the precise reason that their reputation was ruined and it's what consumers want. The consumers control the supply to a degree.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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11/13/2012 4:14:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 4:07:23 PM, phantom wrote:
At 11/13/2012 3:53:30 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
So do you think we should reform the system? Or should we become vegans? Whats the alternative?

I think almost any average American would want to reform it since it's unhealthy, produces lower quality food and is harmful to the environment. Those who care about the ethical treatment of animals would also want to reform it because it goes past the point of cruelty. I'm not saying you should be vegan or vegetarian. If I bought my own food though, I would definitely be more vegetarian and also research places to buy food from. And why not anyway? Wouldn't you rather eat a burger that's from a cow who lived a nourished life outdoors, eating grass and not pumped with drugs, fed almost just corn which isn't natural for them, and entered the slaughter house caked in it's own manure?

I advocate reform but I'd also advocate individuals to change their habits as well. Walmart started doing business with organic farmers for the precise reason that their reputation was ruined and it's what consumers want. The consumers control the supply to a degree.

But didnt you say in the OP that its difficult to be successful AND ethical? So how would reform be possible without sustaining a profit loss? Organic food is a more expensive than processed (which sucks). Or are you saying the corporations should say "F it" and reform anyway?
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/13/2012 8:57:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 4:14:55 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 11/13/2012 4:07:23 PM, phantom wrote:
At 11/13/2012 3:53:30 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
So do you think we should reform the system? Or should we become vegans? Whats the alternative?

I think almost any average American would want to reform it since it's unhealthy, produces lower quality food and is harmful to the environment. Those who care about the ethical treatment of animals would also want to reform it because it goes past the point of cruelty. I'm not saying you should be vegan or vegetarian. If I bought my own food though, I would definitely be more vegetarian and also research places to buy food from. And why not anyway? Wouldn't you rather eat a burger that's from a cow who lived a nourished life outdoors, eating grass and not pumped with drugs, fed almost just corn which isn't natural for them, and entered the slaughter house caked in it's own manure?

I advocate reform but I'd also advocate individuals to change their habits as well. Walmart started doing business with organic farmers for the precise reason that their reputation was ruined and it's what consumers want. The consumers control the supply to a degree.

But didnt you say in the OP that its difficult to be successful AND ethical? So how would reform be possible without sustaining a profit loss? Organic food is a more expensive than processed (which sucks). Or are you saying the corporations should say "F it" and reform anyway?

Small farm system is one answer. The vast majority of meat comes only from a few places. It used to not be like that. Food used to come from all over. One company now accounts for something like 75% of the meat distributed in America and claims they'll soon be 100%. Corporations will never do it by themselves. They make too much money. It has to be government imposed. It's impossible to compete unless you become big yourself and most organic isn't even as organic as you'd think. So the majority of food has to come from these unethical factories under the current system just because they're the ones who can compete.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/13/2012 8:59:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Oh and they would sustain a profit loss, but fvck them.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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11/13/2012 9:27:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 8:59:39 PM, phantom wrote:
Oh and they would sustain a profit loss, but fvck them.

And you support Gary Johnson? Tsk tsk.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/13/2012 9:41:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 9:27:54 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/13/2012 8:59:39 PM, phantom wrote:
Oh and they would sustain a profit loss, but fvck them.

And you support Gary Johnson? Tsk tsk.

Better than the other options. I have problems with them all. I often lean libertarian except for issues such as these.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/13/2012 9:43:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 9:41:14 PM, phantom wrote:
At 11/13/2012 9:27:54 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/13/2012 8:59:39 PM, phantom wrote:
Oh and they would sustain a profit loss, but fvck them.

And you support Gary Johnson? Tsk tsk.

Better than the other options. I have problems with them all. I often lean libertarian except for issues such as these.

And also I ideally support a liberal system but wouldn't mind a libertarian at all currently.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)