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Dying and fighting for America

sadolite
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10/8/2009 4:49:35 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Is it even worth it anymore for a Christian to die for and Defend America anymore.

The Govt sh#ts all over us by putting covers over our war memorials that bear a cross on them. The history and culture of this country has been completely rewritten to depict America as a disease and a blight on all human kind. Our leadership goes to other countries and apologizes for and belittles our country. While third world countries steam ahead and prosper our govt saddles the people and business with more endless regulation and taxes that make us more and more uncompetitive and worthless in the world.
Our govt has grown so corrupt and so large and so in debt that my children have no possible hope of even having even close to the standard of living I have enjoyed all these years. You tell me, is this worth fighting and dying for. I am married to a Swedish women and considering moving there because I can't bear to watch this country die before my eyes. At least Sweden has a culture and is proud of it and doesn't apologize for it and rewrite it. The America I once knew was worth fighting for. I cant see anything worth fighting for anymore. Is there any reason I should stay here anymore? I am sure I will get alot of don't let the door slam me in the a## comments. The more I get the easier it will be to decide.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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10/8/2009 5:00:03 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/8/2009 4:49:35 PM, sadolite wrote:
Is it even worth it anymore for a Christian to die for and Defend America anymore.

The Govt sh#ts all over us by putting covers over our war memorials that bear a cross on them. The history and culture of this country has been completely rewritten to depict America as a disease and a blight on all human kind. Our leadership goes to other countries and apologizes for and belittles our country. While third world countries steam ahead and prosper our govt saddles the people and business with more endless regulation and taxes that make us more and more uncompetitive and worthless in the world.
Our govt has grown so corrupt and so large and so in debt that my children have no possible hope of even having even close to the standard of living I have enjoyed all these years. You tell me, is this worth fighting and dying for. I am married to a Swedish women and considering moving there because I can't bear to watch this country die before my eyes. At least Sweden has a culture and is proud of it and doesn't apologize for it and rewrite it. The America I once knew was worth fighting for. I cant see anything worth fighting for anymore. Is there any reason I should stay here anymore? I am sure I will get alot of don't let the door slam me in the a## comments. The more I get the easier it will be to decide.

1. Haha!
2. What does any of this have to do with Christianity?
3. Was it ever "worth it" to die "for your country", whatever that means.
4. Don't let the door...
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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10/8/2009 5:12:35 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/8/2009 5:00:03 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
1. Haha!
2. What does any of this have to do with Christianity?
3. Was it ever "worth it" to die "for your country", whatever that means.
4. Don't let the door...

My sentiments exactly.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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10/8/2009 5:23:58 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Gotta ask how you think Sweden is somehow a better option than the US is, sadolite. They have publicly-funded health care there, you know.
sadolite
Posts: 8,836
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10/8/2009 5:59:09 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/8/2009 5:23:58 PM, Volkov wrote:
Gotta ask how you think Sweden is somehow a better option than the US is, sadolite. They have publicly-funded health care there, you know.

For one thing like I stated before it isn't ashamed of it's history and hasn't rewritten it. I have been to Sweden and it has many other things about it that make it tolerable such as looser pays civil court system. Professional criminal jury system that doesn't put up with or listen to whining and excuses as defenses to crime. It's economic system is almost all export very little finished goods are imported to Sweden. It's population has remained static at around 9 to 10 million for the last 30 yrs. which allows it to have a socialized medical system that is fairly efficient. And the fact that it has a 5 to 1 export import trade surplus means that it has outside money coming in to pay for it's entitlement programs without having to sell debt to the rest of the world. And last but not least it balances it's budget on a regular bases.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
sadolite
Posts: 8,836
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10/8/2009 6:06:18 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/8/2009 5:00:03 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 10/8/2009 4:49:35 PM, sadolite wrote:
Is it even worth it anymore for a Christian to die for and Defend America anymore.

The Govt sh#ts all over us by putting covers over our war memorials that bear a cross on them. The history and culture of this country has been completely rewritten to depict America as a disease and a blight on all human kind. Our leadership goes to other countries and apologizes for and belittles our country. While third world countries steam ahead and prosper our govt saddles the people and business with more endless regulation and taxes that make us more and more uncompetitive and worthless in the world.
Our govt has grown so corrupt and so large and so in debt that my children have no possible hope of even having even close to the standard of living I have enjoyed all these years. You tell me, is this worth fighting and dying for. I am married to a Swedish women and considering moving there because I can't bear to watch this country die before my eyes. At least Sweden has a culture and is proud of it and doesn't apologize for it and rewrite it. The America I once knew was worth fighting for. I cant see anything worth fighting for anymore. Is there any reason I should stay here anymore? I am sure I will get alot of don't let the door slam me in the a## comments. The more I get the easier it will be to decide.

1. Haha!
2. What does any of this have to do with Christianity?
3. Was it ever "worth it" to die "for your country", whatever that means.
4. Don't let the door...

You are young and have been taught the new version of the history of America. That's why you would say "What does Chrisianity have to do with it" It's not your fault. You havn't even a clue what this nation used to be like and how great it used to be.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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10/8/2009 6:09:02 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/8/2009 6:06:18 PM, sadolite wrote:
You are young and have been taught the new version of the history of America. That's why you would say "What does Chrisianity have to do with it" It's not your fault. You havn't even a clue what this nation used to be like and how great it used to be.

*Awaits argument/ any reasons whatsoever.*
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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10/8/2009 6:10:49 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/8/2009 6:06:18 PM, sadolite wrote:

You are young and have been taught the new version of the history of America. That's why you would say "What does Chrisianity have to do with it" It's not your fault. You havn't even a clue what this nation used to be like and how great it used to be.

Just to inject myself into the discussion, how can we be sure that what you learned wasn't also just rewritten garbage? How would you know the difference if that's all you heard?
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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10/8/2009 6:29:27 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/8/2009 6:06:18 PM, sadolite wrote:
You are young and have been taught the new version of the history of America. That's why you would say "What does Chrisianity have to do with it" It's not your fault. You havn't even a clue what this nation used to be like and how great it used to be.

Unless you're about 230 years old, this statement is bullsh*t.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
sadolite
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10/8/2009 6:33:21 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/8/2009 6:10:49 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 10/8/2009 6:06:18 PM, sadolite wrote:

You are young and have been taught the new version of the history of America. That's why you would say "What does Christianity have to do with it" It's not your fault. You haven't even a clue what this nation used to be like and how great it used to be.

Just to inject myself into the discussion, how can we be sure that what you learned wasn't also just rewritten garbage? How would you know the difference if that's all you heard?

Well, my parents understanding of American history and the principals on which it was founded on matches my understanding exactly and my parents parents taught my parents the same thing. The new history says America was founded on secular non religious rule of law according to what my children are being taught in public school so I have to correct them and tell them that this nation was founded on Christian beliefs and that nearly all of the founding fathers were Christians and that those that were not did not have a problem with the idea that all peoples rights in this country are given to them by god and not govt.
I can understand why so many people today wounder what Chritianity has to do with America
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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10/8/2009 6:38:34 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/8/2009 6:33:21 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 10/8/2009 6:10:49 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 10/8/2009 6:06:18 PM, sadolite wrote:

You are young and have been taught the new version of the history of America. That's why you would say "What does Christianity have to do with it" It's not your fault. You haven't even a clue what this nation used to be like and how great it used to be.

Just to inject myself into the discussion, how can we be sure that what you learned wasn't also just rewritten garbage? How would you know the difference if that's all you heard?

Well, my parents understanding of American history and the principals on which it was founded on matches my understanding exactly and my parents parents taught my parents the same thing. The new history says America was founded on secular non religious rule of law according to what my children are being taught in public school so I have to correct them and tell them that this nation was founded on Christian beliefs and that nearly all of the founding fathers were Christians and that those that were not did not have a problem with the idea that all peoples rights in this country are given to them by god and not govt.
I can understand why so many people today wounder what Chritianity has to do with America

1) Genetic fallacy.
2) The founding fathers tended to be deist, not Christian.
3) Seperation of church and state. (See: 1st Amenment)
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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10/8/2009 6:58:04 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/8/2009 5:59:09 PM, sadolite wrote:
For one thing like I stated before it isn't ashamed of it's history and hasn't rewritten it. I have been to Sweden and it has many other things about it that make it tolerable such as looser pays civil court system. Professional criminal jury system that doesn't put up with or listen to whining and excuses as defenses to crime. It's economic system is almost all export very little finished goods are imported to Sweden. It's population has remained static at around 9 to 10 million for the last 30 yrs. which allows it to have a socialized medical system that is fairly efficient. And the fact that it has a 5 to 1 export import trade surplus means that it has outside money coming in to pay for it's entitlement programs without having to sell debt to the rest of the world. And last but not least it balances it's budget on a regular bases.

So, you would rather go to a country that apparently has all those perceived benefits, even ones you've come out against in the past, rather than stay and fight for them in the country you've grown up in?

That seems a little bit like a cop out to me. But hey, whatever you want.
sadolite
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10/8/2009 8:24:47 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/8/2009 6:58:04 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 10/8/2009 5:59:09 PM, sadolite wrote:
For one thing like I stated before it isn't ashamed of it's history and hasn't rewritten it. I have been to Sweden and it has many other things about it that make it tolerable such as looser pays civil court system. Professional criminal jury system that doesn't put up with or listen to whining and excuses as defenses to crime. It's economic system is almost all export very little finished goods are imported to Sweden. It's population has remained static at around 9 to 10 million for the last 30 yrs. which allows it to have a socialized medical system that is fairly efficient. And the fact that it has a 5 to 1 export import trade surplus means that it has outside money coming in to pay for it's entitlement programs without having to sell debt to the rest of the world. And last but not least it balances it's budget on a regular bases.

So, you would rather go to a country that apparently has all those perceived benefits, even ones you've come out against in the past, rather than stay and fight for them in the country you've grown up in?

That seems a little bit like a cop out to me. But hey, whatever you want.

I have yet to hear anybody give a reason to fight for or preserve America.

America will soon have all the things that I have been against anyway. The only difference is, America does not enforce it's immigration laws and it's population will just keep growing unchecked. It will also continue to have a negative trade imbalance and have to tax more and more and barrow more and more and print more and more worthless money to fund all of it's already unfunded entitlement programs in addition to the litany of new ones it will create in the next two years. Sweden is leaving socialism and moving to capitalism whereas America is embracing and expanding socialism. No one can just become a citizen of Sweden. you have to prove you wont be a burden on society and have proof that you will have a place to live and a source of income. Sweden enforces it's immigration laws to the letter. There is no such thing as illegal immigration in Sweden. Furthermore as I stated before Sweden's population remains static and has a higher per ca pita income than the US pretty impressive if you ask me for a population of only 9 million. The Sweden of today is far more like America used to be than what America has become. I am contemplating this for my children's future not for me. I so no financial future for America, just endless bad debt and the eventual collapse of the dollar when the world oil markets cease to use the dollar to buy oil in 2018. People will say it wont happen. The fact that it is even being discussed and that a date has been attached to it means it is already a done deal. 2018 that is my prediction for the fall of the American dollar and the country cannibalizing itself from with in.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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10/8/2009 8:39:13 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/8/2009 8:24:47 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 10/8/2009 6:58:04 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 10/8/2009 5:59:09 PM, sadolite wrote:
For one thing like I stated before it isn't ashamed of it's history and hasn't rewritten it. I have been to Sweden and it has many other things about it that make it tolerable such as looser pays civil court system. Professional criminal jury system that doesn't put up with or listen to whining and excuses as defenses to crime. It's economic system is almost all export very little finished goods are imported to Sweden. It's population has remained static at around 9 to 10 million for the last 30 yrs. which allows it to have a socialized medical system that is fairly efficient. And the fact that it has a 5 to 1 export import trade surplus means that it has outside money coming in to pay for it's entitlement programs without having to sell debt to the rest of the world. And last but not least it balances it's budget on a regular bases.

So, you would rather go to a country that apparently has all those perceived benefits, even ones you've come out against in the past, rather than stay and fight for them in the country you've grown up in?

That seems a little bit like a cop out to me. But hey, whatever you want.

I have yet to hear anybody give a reason to fight for or preserve America.

So when are you leaving? Get in now for those cheap flights.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
Maikuru
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10/8/2009 11:21:55 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/8/2009 4:49:35 PM, sadolite wrote:
Is it even worth it anymore for a Christian to die for and Defend America anymore.

I sure hope so. Maybe it's Bible-based blood lust or some desire to cross the pearly gates sooner rather than later, but those boys just love to fight. Seeing as I have no interest in dying, it's a win-win really.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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sadolite
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10/9/2009 11:09:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/8/2009 11:21:55 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 10/8/2009 4:49:35 PM, sadolite wrote:
Is it even worth it anymore for a Christian to die for and Defend America anymore.

I sure hope so. Maybe it's Bible-based blood lust or some desire to cross the pearly gates sooner rather than later, but those boys just love to fight. Seeing as I have no interest in dying, it's a win-win really.

Imagine a military totaly comprised secualar agnostics and atheists. What a clown show that would be.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Volkov
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10/9/2009 11:11:43 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/9/2009 11:09:33 PM, sadolite wrote:
Imagine a military totaly comprised secualar agnostics and atheists. What a clown show that would be.

Why would it be any different from a military comprised of the religious? I fail to see the connection here.
PervRat
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10/9/2009 11:33:18 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/9/2009 11:11:43 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 10/9/2009 11:09:33 PM, sadolite wrote:
Imagine a military totaly comprised secualar agnostics and atheists. What a clown show that would be.

Why would it be any different from a military comprised of the religious? I fail to see the connection here.

Psst, it wouldn't so readily accept a 21st century Christian-on-Muslim holy war.
Volkov
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10/9/2009 11:35:55 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/9/2009 11:33:18 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 10/9/2009 11:11:43 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 10/9/2009 11:09:33 PM, sadolite wrote:
Imagine a military totaly comprised secualar agnostics and atheists. What a clown show that would be.

Why would it be any different from a military comprised of the religious? I fail to see the connection here.

Psst, it wouldn't so readily accept a 21st century Christian-on-Muslim holy war.

They can always hire Blackwater.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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10/9/2009 11:40:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/8/2009 5:23:58 PM, Volkov wrote:
Gotta ask how you think Sweden is somehow a better option than the US is, sadolite. They have publicly-funded health care there, you know.

As do all civilised western states.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
sadolite
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10/10/2009 8:42:58 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/9/2009 11:11:43 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 10/9/2009 11:09:33 PM, sadolite wrote:
Imagine a military totaly comprised secualar agnostics and atheists. What a clown show that would be.

Why would it be any different from a military comprised of the religious? I fail to see the connection here.

First of all you couldn't find enough secular agnostics and atheists to even build a standing military force big enough to defend or fight anything. It is my opinion most don't think anything is worth fighting and dying for and then you would have to convince them all to fight for the same reason, which would be nearly impossible with that "morality is all relative" logic process they use.

They don't know the difference between good and evil and can't identify their enemies. They would eventually kill each other.

Why do you think 80% to 95% of all soldiers in the US military are Christians. That number soars to 99.99% during the heat of battle. Especially when they are pinned down in a fox hole with bullets whizzing over their heads with no escape in the foreseeable future.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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10/10/2009 9:18:16 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/10/2009 8:42:58 AM, sadolite wrote:
First of all you couldn't find enough secular agnostics and atheists to even build a standing military force big enough to defend or fight anything. It is my opinion most don't think anything is worth fighting and dying for and then you would have to convince them all to fight for the same reason, which would be nearly impossible with that "morality is all relative" logic process they use.

Even though this is actually irrelevant, I'll address it anyways.

I'll be using Canada as an example, since I know the statistics. But, I digress:

In Canada, there are close to 3.4 million people that say they have "No Religion." And yes, the status "No Religion" applies to people that responded they were atheist, humanist, agnostic, etc., on their census forms. I'll be generous to you though, and say that 40% of them are actually convinced of their beliefs. That leaves 1.3 million.

If you somehow believe that you can't get enough numbers to build an army with that, you're pretty odd. Considering Canada's military only has about 60,000 active personnel, you won't be hard pressed to get the numbers. The US has what, maybe 500,000 active personnel? Little tougher, but still, well within the bounds of reality.

Now, addressing your idea of a lack of, I guess, "conviction" in the belief of the necessity of going to war, I'd question your knowledge of any secular humanist/atheist/agnostic. To say someone has nothing to fight or die for is akin to saying that these people have no families, live no lives, and have no happiness, which is clearly wrong. If 12% of the population of Canada is this way, we're a very depressed country, and should be one of the highest users of anti-depressants (we're not, by the way - Lebanon, a country fractured along three different religious lines, has the most users of anti-depressants relative to their population). So, I don't think I need to go here.

About this "moral relativity" stuff - yes. Morality is relative to the individual. But that doesn't make morality any less of a driving factor. Atheists are driven constantly to defend against the perceived injustices of religious belief - moral relativism, sure, but still a force that drives them to fight. So this is also a moot point.

And, I have no idea why you think you would need to convince them to fight for the same reason all around - people fight for the reasons they see fit, whether nor not they're religious. If you're claiming that for atheists, etc., then you should be claiming it for Christians, Muslims, Francophones, New Yorkers, Inuit, etc.

Now, on to the rest of this, er, logic.

They don't know the difference between good and evil and can't identify their enemies. They would eventually kill each other.

Lol. That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

War isn't about "good vs. evil," sadolite. It is about you versus the other guy, and you can identify your enemy easily - he's the one trying to kill you. How do you think atheists cannot recognize when someone is trying to kill them? I'd certainly recognize it.

Why do you think 80% to 95% of all soldiers in the US military are Christians. That number soars to 99.99% during the heat of battle. Especially when they are pinned down in a fox hole with bullets whizzing over their heads with no escape in the foreseeable future.

This is a common misconception. Here are the actual demographics of the United States Military, at least as of 2001:

Protestant: 35%
Catholic/Orthodox: 22%
Other Christian: 11%
Atheist/No Religion: 21%
etc.

Need a link to this? http://www.prb.org... - look for Table 5, I don't have time to create a screen capture for you.

But that is hardly 80-95%, so you may want to rethink that.

And that old "You're not an atheist in a fox hole" is a silly defense mechanism for Christians to convince themselves they're right. There isn't any proof of such contentions.

Besides, why would you be worried about God during the heat of battle? If anything, God isn't anywhere near you during that kind of pandemonium. In fact, God seemed to abandon almost 5000 American soldiers, most of them believers, in the heat of battle. Clearly, something isn't working.

And I'll admit, I could care less what you believe during the heat of battle as long as you've got my back. I'm sure most of these soldiers feel the same way.
Kleptin
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10/10/2009 9:23:02 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/10/2009 8:42:58 AM, sadolite wrote:
Especially when they are pinned down in a fox hole with bullets whizzing over their heads with no escape in the foreseeable future.

If we take Mumbabwe Orembawu from some obscure African Tribe, who has never even heard of Christianity, and stick him into the heat of warfare, I wonder if he'll pray to the Christian God, or if he'll pray to his own.

Atheist-in-the-foxhole argument is a failure because people are reduced down to their irrational fears and beliefs and basic instincts. We were raised in a Christian-oriented society, so upon the breakdown of our rational selves, we will perform cultural acts relating to Christianity.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Ragnar_Rahl
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10/10/2009 9:41:03 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
It's easy to deal with a military that wants to die for its country. All you have to do is accommodate them.

A useful military instead plans to KILL for its country, and does what it can to minimize the lost investment represented by dying for it.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Harlan
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10/10/2009 9:51:22 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/9/2009 11:09:33 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 10/8/2009 11:21:55 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 10/8/2009 4:49:35 PM, sadolite wrote:
Is it even worth it anymore for a Christian to die for and Defend America anymore.

I sure hope so. Maybe it's Bible-based blood lust or some desire to cross the pearly gates sooner rather than later, but those boys just love to fight. Seeing as I have no interest in dying, it's a win-win really.

Imagine a military totaly comprised secualar agnostics and atheists. What a clown show that would be.

This is a good article about this subject, that I would strongly recommend reading:

http://www.harpers.org...
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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10/10/2009 10:00:42 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/9/2009 11:09:33 PM, sadolite wrote:
Imagine a military totaly comprised secualar agnostics and atheists. What a clown show that would be.

You mean, the scientists and engineers who fashion the weapons and technology? Those are the secular agnostics and atheists' contributions. Worthless bible thumpers are really only good as meat shields.

Like Ragnar said, it's useless to passionately want to die for your country. It's another to passionately want to kill for your country. Let the bible thumpers work on the dying, and the scientists and engineers work on the killing.
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Volkov
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10/10/2009 10:09:03 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Kleptin and Ragnar, you're probably taking it a bit too literally.

When someone uses the phrase, "are you prepared to die for your country?", they're not actually wanting them to go out and die - they're asking if these troops are loyal enough to take on the risk for the sake of the country, its ideals, etc.

Obviously they want to kill the other guy before they ever get killed. It isn't a question of, "will you be meat and die for us?" It is a question of "are you prepared to take on this risk of death?"
I-am-a-panda
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10/10/2009 1:56:24 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
1) The Victors write History. I could go on for hours about American and British war crimes, and how America wasn't responsible for World War 2 being won, so message me if you want that.

2) Belittling America by apologising? Do you think Europeans (Such as me) revere America more for saying it has done some wrong than standing proud draped in the Stars and Stripes saying they're always morally superior?

3) America wasn't founded on Christianity, read your own damn constitution, the first amendment. Sure, the majority of the founding fathers were Christian but it doesn't mean they wanted a Theocracy.
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Ragnar_Rahl
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10/10/2009 4:26:24 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Countries don't have ideals. Individuals do, and governments do, but countries do not.

Incidentally those a government does have are probably more likely to match a less-religious individual's than a more-religious individual's, given that a government is an earthly institution with earthly goals.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
leet4A1
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10/10/2009 4:32:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/10/2009 8:42:58 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 10/9/2009 11:11:43 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 10/9/2009 11:09:33 PM, sadolite wrote:
Imagine a military totaly comprised secualar agnostics and atheists. What a clown show that would be.

Why would it be any different from a military comprised of the religious? I fail to see the connection here.

First of all you couldn't find enough secular agnostics and atheists to even build a standing military force big enough to defend or fight anything. It is my opinion most don't think anything is worth fighting and dying for and then you would have to convince them all to fight for the same reason, which would be nearly impossible with that "morality is all relative" logic process they use.

They don't know the difference between good and evil and can't identify their enemies. They would eventually kill each other.

Why do you think 80% to 95% of all soldiers in the US military are Christians. That number soars to 99.99% during the heat of battle. Especially when they are pinned down in a fox hole with bullets whizzing over their heads with no escape in the foreseeable future.

So.... when are you leaving?
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