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Spanking

FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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12/4/2012 1:30:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
So I was just having this conversation with my girlfriend. She favors spanking (talking about child-rearing here). This is a problem for me. I know what the evidence says about it's effectiveness. I would also personally feel completely uncomfortable with it.
What are your thoughts?

http://www.lsa.umich.edu...
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fnord
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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12/4/2012 1:37:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yes, please.

Anyway, I had a similar situation. My fiancee favored spanking, having been spanked herself as a kid, and I was against it, having never been hit in any way ever lol. We also both thought our position was obviously the more reasonable and that the other was ridiculous and detrimental.

It was an issue (not a big one) for years, actually, but she was a student of psychology and sociology and found that most of the research favored my side. Eventually she agreed that we wouldn't physically punish the kids so long as we found other methods that were reasonably effective. Also, I had to agree to let her pick their names.
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FREEDO
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12/4/2012 1:41:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 1:37:14 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Yes, please.

Anyway, I had a similar situation. My fiancee favored spanking, having been spanked herself as a kid, and I was against it, having never been hit in any way ever lol. We also both thought our position was obviously the more reasonable and that the other was ridiculous and detrimental.

It was an issue (not a big one) for years, actually, but she was a student of psychology and sociology and found that most of the research favored my side. Eventually she agreed that we wouldn't physically punish the kids so long as we found other methods that were reasonably effective. Also, I had to agree to let her pick their names.

Wait. I thought I saw you mention that you were beaten in that thread where we were getting a sort of score on how healthy of childhoods we had or something. I forget where it is.
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fnord
Maikuru
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12/4/2012 1:44:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 1:41:06 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/4/2012 1:37:14 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Yes, please.

Anyway, I had a similar situation. My fiancee favored spanking, having been spanked herself as a kid, and I was against it, having never been hit in any way ever lol. We also both thought our position was obviously the more reasonable and that the other was ridiculous and detrimental.

It was an issue (not a big one) for years, actually, but she was a student of psychology and sociology and found that most of the research favored my side. Eventually she agreed that we wouldn't physically punish the kids so long as we found other methods that were reasonably effective. Also, I had to agree to let her pick their names.

Wait. I thought I saw you mention that you were beaten in that thread where we were getting a sort of score on how healthy of childhoods we had or something. I forget where it is.

You might be thinking of wallstreet. I gave my score but didn't go into details. I grew up with my mom and the worst thing she ever did was throw a slipper at me lol.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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FREEDO
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12/4/2012 1:46:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Neither was I.

Similarly, my girlfriend was and feels somehow that that validates her position.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Maikuru
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12/4/2012 1:56:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
LOL yeah, some spanking might have set you straight. My girl liked to say that since I wasn't beaten, I really don't have a working perspective on it. I mean, that's true, but I know what pain and fear feel like lol.

Child raising issues are big deals and it's cool that you guys are discussing that. Whether or not to beat is a hard one to compromise on, though, and just throwing info at her will probably be met with "but I turned out fine." Your best bet is to keep reminding yourselves that you both just want to give the kids the best possible parenting structure with as little damage, mental and physical, as possible, and try finding methods purely from that objective position. From there, it will probably flow naturally that spanking should only happen after other methods are tried first.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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BlackVoid
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12/4/2012 1:56:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Lol, I was spanked a few times until I was around 8. I don't have any of the problems the study described. But thats just me. It wasn't very often, so maybe the "secret" is just to not do it too frequently.

I can't remember how old I was, probably 7 or something, but one time I stole like $12 worth of coins from my stepbrother. My dad found out and spanked me pretty bad. Lol, its funny looking back. but one thing's for damn sure, i didn't steal anything for a long long time after that.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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12/4/2012 2:41:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 1:56:33 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
Lol, I was spanked a few times until I was around 8. I don't have any of the problems the study described. But thats just me. It wasn't very often, so maybe the "secret" is just to not do it too frequently.

I can't remember how old I was, probably 7 or something, but one time I stole like $12 worth of coins from my stepbrother. My dad found out and spanked me pretty bad. Lol, its funny looking back. but one thing's for damn sure, i didn't steal anything for a long long time after that.

Hmm, just as Maikuru predicted: The "I was spanked but turned out fine" argument. I could argue that I wasn't spanked but turned out fine. I guess it is a null tell at best. To find out if it is effective, a broader domain needs to be considered and the averages evaluated.

I'd be interested in debating this topic after the 17th of December or so if you (or anyone else who is interested and is good) want to debate it.
BlackVoid
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12/4/2012 2:47:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 2:41:00 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 12/4/2012 1:56:33 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
Lol, I was spanked a few times until I was around 8. I don't have any of the problems the study described. But thats just me. It wasn't very often, so maybe the "secret" is just to not do it too frequently.

I can't remember how old I was, probably 7 or something, but one time I stole like $12 worth of coins from my stepbrother. My dad found out and spanked me pretty bad. Lol, its funny looking back. but one thing's for damn sure, i didn't steal anything for a long long time after that.

Hmm, just as Maikuru predicted: The "I was spanked but turned out fine" argument. I could argue that I wasn't spanked but turned out fine. I guess it is a null tell at best. To find out if it is effective, a broader domain needs to be considered and the averages evaluated.

I didn't make that argument at all. Thats why I said "but thats just me".

I was just giving a personal experience. I'm not passionate about the topic either way.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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12/4/2012 3:33:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 1:30:39 AM, FREEDO wrote:
So I was just having this conversation with my girlfriend. She favors spanking (talking about child-rearing here). This is a problem for me. I know what the evidence says about it's effectiveness. I would also personally feel completely uncomfortable with it.
What are your thoughts?

http://www.lsa.umich.edu...

Beatings, beatings, beatings. Who cares about effectiveness. Sometimes children just need a good old fashioned whacking to keep them in line.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Koopin
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12/4/2012 6:14:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
In my case (and my family) it worked. My mother would spank us when we did something bad and we learned quickly how the punishment worked. People were always asking my mother how she got such great kids.
kfc
iamnotwhoiam
Posts: 171
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12/4/2012 6:45:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I was spanked once and I'm completely messed up.

More pity my mother for losing her temper. I think I've forgiven her now though.

My daughter was never spanked and she turned out lovely. I think spanking is completely unnecessary.
FREEDO
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12/4/2012 2:53:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 6:45:37 AM, iamnotwhoiam wrote:
I was spanked once and I'm completely messed up.

lol
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fnord
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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12/4/2012 3:53:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I used to be spanked. I don't think I got any psychological side effects but I don't see much benefit from it. Sure it disciplined me but other non-violent methods could have done so just as well. And considering I was a bit of a wus when I was young, I don't think it toughened me up. I used to be a scardy when I played air-soft and cried multiple times. Now when I play, I'll run right past 5 people shooting me, one with a high power machine gun, without surrendering no problem. I think that just happened with maturity though.

I wasn't spanked much though and not too hard. I had one friend whose dad spanked him till his butt was blue once. He used to be extremely naughty but grew to be really mature. I don't know if the spanking helped or if there were any psychological side effects. Didn't seem like it.

I don't think I would spank my kids. You don't really know what effect it can have on them until latter when it's too late. It's better to be safe and deter them by other methods. If you want them to be tough, make them play paint-ball/sports.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Deathbeforedishonour
Posts: 1,058
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12/4/2012 3:58:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 1:30:39 AM, FREEDO wrote:
So I was just having this conversation with my girlfriend. She favors spanking (talking about child-rearing here). This is a problem for me. I know what the evidence says about it's effectiveness. I would also personally feel completely uncomfortable with it.
What are your thoughts?

http://www.lsa.umich.edu...

I was spanked as a child, and I turned out just fine.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~ John 1:1

Matthew 10:22- "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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12/4/2012 4:05:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 3:58:01 PM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 12/4/2012 1:30:39 AM, FREEDO wrote:
So I was just having this conversation with my girlfriend. She favors spanking (talking about child-rearing here). This is a problem for me. I know what the evidence says about it's effectiveness. I would also personally feel completely uncomfortable with it.
What are your thoughts?

http://www.lsa.umich.edu...

I was spanked as a child, and I turned out just fine.

I agree with deathfordishonour, don't spank your children.
Open borders debate:
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lewis20
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12/4/2012 5:33:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I always assumed everyone was spanked as a kid.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

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YYW
Posts: 36,391
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12/4/2012 5:34:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 1:30:39 AM, FREEDO wrote:
So I was just having this conversation with my girlfriend. She favors spanking (talking about child-rearing here). This is a problem for me. I know what the evidence says about it's effectiveness. I would also personally feel completely uncomfortable with it.
What are your thoughts?

http://www.lsa.umich.edu...

Back when I was a freshman in college, I dated a girl (surprise!) who liked nothing more than to be spanked. I know this is probably too kinky to put on DDO, but I have speculated immensely on why she had that "fetish." (There were other things too, but those I KNOW are too far off for DDO.) Daddy issues? Self image issues? Self worth issues? Probably all of the above, but when we talked about it she revealed to me that she was spanked as a child, and it was primarily her father who did the spanking. I mean, I'm all for people doing what they like, but there is a point at which I have to question the value of extracting physical pain as a consequence for misbehavior in childhood. Might it lead to fvcked up sexual relations in adulthood? Perhaps. But psychosexual issues aside, there is a principle involved. Hitting a kid is a figure of authority telling a subject that suffering is an appropriate consequence for -generally- irritating but non-serious offenses. It is also telling the kid that it's ok for big people to hit smaller people with impunity. That's bullsh!t in and of itself. And to the "I was spanked but I turned out ok" argument... fvck off. Think of how much better you could have been... (Sorry, this is my inner European coming out.)
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Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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12/4/2012 5:42:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I tend to take a stance where spanking should be something that's used only when it's absolutely necessary and a complete last resort.

For example, my goddaughter, when she was 3-4 years old, had a nasty habit of running into the middle of the street. You could only reason with her so much. It was difficult to explain to her that she could DIE if one of those big shiny things hits her body. So yeah, after a few frightening incidents, we all agreed that spanking was something she would understand. She didn't have to get spanked more than twice to get the picture and from then on the mere threat of being "swat" was sufficient when she wouldn't listen to reason (as small children are often wont to do...). She's 7 now and doesn't get spanked. She just gets sent to her room and "grounded."
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
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phantom
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12/4/2012 6:14:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 5:42:51 PM, Oryus wrote:
I tend to take a stance where spanking should be something that's used only when it's absolutely necessary and a complete last resort.

For example, my goddaughter, when she was 3-4 years old, had a nasty habit of running into the middle of the street. You could only reason with her so much. It was difficult to explain to her that she could DIE if one of those big shiny things hits her body. So yeah, after a few frightening incidents, we all agreed that spanking was something she would understand. She didn't have to get spanked more than twice to get the picture and from then on the mere threat of being "swat" was sufficient when she wouldn't listen to reason (as small children are often wont to do...). She's 7 now and doesn't get spanked. She just gets sent to her room and "grounded."

Good point.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
thett3
Posts: 14,378
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12/4/2012 6:24:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net...

"When I was a kid and I screwed up, my parents beat my asss. We didn't have a conversation about it. I didn't have a "time out." In fact, I've never even once been grounded in my life. What's the point? Send your kid to his room and make him play video games and read comic books all day?"
DDO Vice President

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#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
Posts: 14,378
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12/4/2012 6:27:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 6:24:21 PM, thett3 wrote:
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net...

"When I was a kid and I screwed up, my parents beat my asss. We didn't have a conversation about it. I didn't have a "time out." In fact, I've never even once been grounded in my life. What's the point? Send your kid to his room and make him play video games and read comic books all day?"

" Don't listen to these asssholes on TV with their bullshiit hippy psycho babble; if they had it their way, every child would be raised in a pastel colored room with Philip Glass pumped through the speakers 24 hours a day. Then again, it might not be all that bad because it will make your kids complacent, so it won't be as hard for them to swallow when they realize that they'll be spending the rest of their lives chained to a desk in a cubicle writing reports to make someone else rich."
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/4/2012 6:41:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't care what the justification is. Children can't defend themselves. It isn't right for someone to impose violence on another who has no means of appeal.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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12/4/2012 6:44:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 6:41:14 PM, 000ike wrote:
I don't care what the justification is. Children can't defend themselves. It isn't right for someone to impose violence on another who has no means of appeal.

Says the moral nihilist.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
YYW
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12/4/2012 6:48:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 6:44:12 PM, phantom wrote:
At 12/4/2012 6:41:14 PM, 000ike wrote:
I don't care what the justification is. Children can't defend themselves. It isn't right for someone to impose violence on another who has no means of appeal.

Says the moral nihilist.

IRONY!

*lolz*
Tsar of DDO
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/4/2012 6:57:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 6:44:12 PM, phantom wrote:
At 12/4/2012 6:41:14 PM, 000ike wrote:
I don't care what the justification is. Children can't defend themselves. It isn't right for someone to impose violence on another who has no means of appeal.

Says the moral nihilist.

subjectivist. I will always admit the raw irrationality of all ethics, but in the end I am still a human being, and I can still be disgusted with people and I can still be outraged by unfairness, and things that simply don't seem right. I understand that such bias has no place in rational debate, but rationality is not all that governs human society, and in my opinion, nor should it be.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
phantom
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12/4/2012 6:59:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 6:57:04 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/4/2012 6:44:12 PM, phantom wrote:
At 12/4/2012 6:41:14 PM, 000ike wrote:
I don't care what the justification is. Children can't defend themselves. It isn't right for someone to impose violence on another who has no means of appeal.

Says the moral nihilist.

subjectivist. I will always admit the raw irrationality of all ethics, but in the end I am still a human being, and I can still be disgusted with people and I can still be outraged by unfairness, and things that simply don't seem right. I understand that such bias has no place in rational debate, but rationality is not all that governs human society, and in my opinion, nor should it be.

In the other thread you said debating values is meaningless.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
thett3
Posts: 14,378
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12/4/2012 6:59:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/4/2012 6:41:14 PM, 000ike wrote:
I don't care what the justification is. Children can't defend themselves. It isn't right for someone to impose violence on another who has no means of appeal.

"Don't listen to these asssholes on TV with their bullshiit hippy psycho babble; if they had it their way, every child would be raised in a pastel colored room with Philip Glass pumped through the speakers 24 hours a day. Then again, it might not be all that bad because it will make your kids complacent, so it won't be as hard for them to swallow when they realize that they'll be spending the rest of their lives chained to a desk in a cubicle writing reports to make someone else rich."
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right