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On the hook for Child Support

Chuz-Life
Posts: 1,789
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12/10/2012 2:43:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
There was not enough room in the subject line to title this discussion the way that I wanted to. "What makes your biological father your biological father?"

This question is directed at those who are proponents of abortion on demand. Those who deny that an individual's life begins at conception and to those who deny that an abortion kills a child.

Any takers?
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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12/10/2012 2:54:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2012 2:43:45 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
There was not enough room in the subject line to title this discussion the way that I wanted to. "What makes your biological father your biological father?"

I have half his genetic code.


This question is directed at those who are proponents of abortion on demand. Those who deny that an individual's life begins at conception and to those who deny that an abortion kills a child.

Any takers?
Chuz-Life
Posts: 1,789
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12/10/2012 2:56:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2012 2:53:00 PM, badger wrote:
he fvcked my mother... biologically?

The chances are that more than one man has slept with your mother, Badger. Yet only one of them is your biological father. Correct?
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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badger
Posts: 11,793
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12/10/2012 2:59:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2012 2:56:12 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
At 12/10/2012 2:53:00 PM, badger wrote:
he fvcked my mother... biologically?

The chances are that more than one man has slept with your mother, Badger. Yet only one of them is your biological father. Correct?

okay, he fvcked my mother biologically to result in my being conceived. yes, correct.
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Chuz-Life
Posts: 1,789
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12/10/2012 3:01:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2012 2:54:13 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/10/2012 2:43:45 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
There was not enough room in the subject line to title this discussion the way that I wanted to. "What makes your biological father your biological father?"

I have half his genetic code.


This question is directed at those who are proponents of abortion on demand. Those who deny that an individual's life begins at conception and to those who deny that an abortion kills a child.

Any takers?

Correct. Drafterman..

So, the follow up (should be obvious) questions are;

1. When (if not at conception) did that take place?
2. How does that not support the notion that your life began at that point?
3. Isn't that also the moment that made your biological mother your biological mother?
4. How can they be your biological parents at that moment if you were not 'you?'
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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12/10/2012 3:02:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The point of child support is that the mother shouldn't be left to have to pay for the child on her own. Who else to charge but the father? You could make it a government program.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Chuz-Life
Posts: 1,789
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12/10/2012 3:03:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2012 2:59:36 PM, badger wrote:
At 12/10/2012 2:56:12 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
At 12/10/2012 2:53:00 PM, badger wrote:
he fvcked my mother... biologically?

The chances are that more than one man has slept with your mother, Badger. Yet only one of them is your biological father. Correct?

okay, he fvcked my mother biologically to result in my being conceived. yes, correct.

Thanks. Please see my response to Drafterman.
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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badger
Posts: 11,793
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12/10/2012 3:03:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
to be serious though, i'm not a proponent of abortion on demand... or... well, you're never gonna see me out waving a banner in the air chanting "let me kill my fetus". seems kinda fvcked up...
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Chuz-Life
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12/10/2012 3:04:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2012 3:02:10 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The point of child support is that the mother shouldn't be left to have to pay for the child on her own. Who else to charge but the father? You could make it a government program.

That's a great answer to a question I didn't ask, Freedo.
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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Chuz-Life
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12/10/2012 3:07:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2012 3:04:46 PM, badger wrote:
why did i think this was an abortion topic??

You shouldn't have really. Because it's not. Though I will admit it is a very closely related topic.
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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badger
Posts: 11,793
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12/10/2012 3:07:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
oooh!!

dude, i've been a proponent of that if women should be allowed have abortions that men should then be allowed to opt out of child support for ages!! lol...

jokingly though... i'd feel lousy bringing something into the world just to have it suffer, regardless of whether its mother could've ended its life before it began pretty much
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FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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12/10/2012 3:09:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2012 3:04:01 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
At 12/10/2012 3:02:10 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The point of child support is that the mother shouldn't be left to have to pay for the child on her own. Who else to charge but the father? You could make it a government program.

That's a great answer to a question I didn't ask, Freedo.

Alright then. I apologize for wasting the light that enters your eyeballs.

Your question seemed to be one that had a different question behind it, which is the one I usually answer. But I guess I misinterpreted what that was.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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12/10/2012 3:11:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The best argument for abortion rights is simply that people have the right to deny others the resources they need to survive. Does that mean that child support does not have to be paid? Sure, but I think a great solution would be to stamp a label about this on every person, male or female, who does not pay child support and give fair warning to new spouses when he or she applies for a state-issued marriage license.
YYW
Posts: 36,345
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12/10/2012 3:12:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2012 2:43:45 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
There was not enough room in the subject line to title this discussion the way that I wanted to. "What makes your biological father your biological father?"

This question is directed at those who are proponents of abortion on demand. Those who deny that an individual's life begins at conception and to those who deny that an abortion kills a child.

Any takers?

You can still say that life begins at conception, but support the moral permissibility of abortion up to the point of viability, that is the point at which the child/fetus can survive on its own. Why? Before viability, the child/fetus could not sustain life without the mother. After viability, the child is meritorious of being considered a person, because to be a person means to stain life independently of a life-bearer.
Tsar of DDO
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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12/10/2012 3:13:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Child support is starting to become less necessary since males are losing their power over their families as more females enter the workplace.
YYW
Posts: 36,345
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12/10/2012 3:13:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2012 3:11:08 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
The best argument for abortion rights is simply that people have the right to deny others the resources they need to survive. Does that mean that child support does not have to be paid? Sure, but I think a great solution would be to stamp a label about this on every person, male or female, who does not pay child support and give fair warning to new spouses when he or she applies for a state-issued marriage license.

The government can -and should- subsidize unwed child birth, but universal access to free birth control -and women's health education- is a more preferable option.
Tsar of DDO
Chuz-Life
Posts: 1,789
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12/10/2012 3:18:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So many understandable comments are missing the initial point that I am trying to make with this thread. "Your conception is what makes your biological father your father and that is proof positive that your life began at your conception."
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

http://www.debate.org...
YYW
Posts: 36,345
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12/10/2012 3:18:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2012 3:15:07 PM, badger wrote:
the world is a really fvcked up place.

Blame democracy and democratic action.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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12/10/2012 3:19:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2012 3:18:14 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
So many understandable comments are missing the initial point that I am trying to make with this thread. "Your conception is what makes your biological father your father and that is proof positive that your life began at your conception."

Arguing against the rule has the same effect as arguing against the case. And no, your argument does nothing to establish that life begins at conception. Be careful now, before I have to deconstruct the meaning of life.
Tsar of DDO
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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12/10/2012 3:21:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2012 3:18:14 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
So many understandable comments are missing the initial point that I am trying to make with this thread. "Your conception is what makes your biological father your father and that is proof positive that your life began at your conception."

I don't think anybody has ever said that fetuses are not living things. The questions that people pose are as follows:

1. Are they sentient?

2. Are they rational enough to deserve rights given that animals with more intelligence than infants are slaughtered and enslaved on a daily basis?

3. Do I have an obligation to care for them (is the right to life positive or is it negative?)?

Even sperm cells are alive. Life technically begins prior to conception.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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12/10/2012 3:24:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2012 3:18:16 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/10/2012 3:15:07 PM, badger wrote:
the world is a really fvcked up place.

Blame democracy and democratic action.

i don't.
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YYW
Posts: 36,345
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12/10/2012 3:25:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2012 3:21:42 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 12/10/2012 3:18:14 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
So many understandable comments are missing the initial point that I am trying to make with this thread. "Your conception is what makes your biological father your father and that is proof positive that your life began at your conception."

I don't think anybody has ever said that fetuses are not living things. The questions that people pose are as follows:

1. Are they sentient?

You have been reading too much Peter Singer.

2. Are they rational enough to deserve rights given that animals with more intelligence than infants are slaughtered and enslaved on a daily basis?

So reason is what gives someone the right to have rights?

Again, too much Singer.

3. Do I have an obligation to care for them (is the right to life positive or is it negative?)?

False dilemma.

Even sperm cells are alive. Life technically begins prior to conception.

Masturbation = murder.

ROFL
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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12/10/2012 3:25:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2012 3:24:13 PM, badger wrote:
At 12/10/2012 3:18:16 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/10/2012 3:15:07 PM, badger wrote:
the world is a really fvcked up place.

Blame democracy and democratic action.

i don't.

Oh, well then who do you blame? People like me?
Tsar of DDO
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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12/10/2012 3:26:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2012 3:21:42 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 12/10/2012 3:18:14 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
So many understandable comments are missing the initial point that I am trying to make with this thread. "Your conception is what makes your biological father your father and that is proof positive that your life began at your conception."

I don't think anybody has ever said that fetuses are not living things. The questions that people pose are as follows:

1. Are they sentient?

Are people under amnesia sentient?

2. Are they rational enough to deserve rights given that animals with more intelligence than infants are slaughtered and enslaved on a daily basis?

No, but they have the capacity for intelligence as part of their nature.

3. Do I have an obligation to care for them (is the right to life positive or is it negative?)?

Yes. Unless you're saying that it's OK to kill someone if they're in your belly.

Even sperm cells are alive. Life technically begins prior to conception.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
badger
Posts: 11,793
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12/10/2012 3:30:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2012 3:25:34 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/10/2012 3:24:13 PM, badger wrote:
At 12/10/2012 3:18:16 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/10/2012 3:15:07 PM, badger wrote:
the world is a really fvcked up place.

Blame democracy and democratic action.

i don't.

Oh, well then who do you blame? People like me?

yeah.
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