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Abortion opinions

tmar19652
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12/31/2012 12:32:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I posted this on a debate, and I was told it was a good question for a forum, so here it is.

Why do people feel like they have to force abortion views on someone else? If you don't agree with abortion don't have one, don't take away the woman's right to have one. Also, why are men going against abortion, we don't have the experience of being pregnant, nor are we affected by abortion.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
Chuz-Life
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12/31/2012 4:07:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 12:32:45 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
I posted this on a debate, and I was told it was a good question for a forum, so here it is.

Why do people feel like they have to force abortion views on someone else? If you don't agree with abortion don't have one, don't take away the woman's right to have one. Also, why are men going against abortion, we don't have the experience of being pregnant, nor are we affected by abortion.

Tmar... could you explain how people expressing their views against legalized abortion amounts to what you call 'force?'

In your view, are the people who are fighting for more restrictions on guns 'forcing their views onto others' as well?
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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tulle
Posts: 4,445
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12/31/2012 4:32:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The problem with that is people who are against abortion generally are so because they believe it is murder. In their eyes, that would be akin to saying "if you don't like murder, don't murder someone."
yang.
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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12/31/2012 4:36:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 4:07:58 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
At 12/31/2012 12:32:45 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
I posted this on a debate, and I was told it was a good question for a forum, so here it is.

Why do people feel like they have to force abortion views on someone else? If you don't agree with abortion don't have one, don't take away the woman's right to have one. Also, why are men going against abortion, we don't have the experience of being pregnant, nor are we affected by abortion.

Tmar... could you explain how people expressing their views against legalized abortion amounts to what you call 'force?'

In your view, are the people who are fighting for more restrictions on guns 'forcing their views onto others' as well?

Force-advocating for laws banning abortion, or advocating for roe v wade to be overturned
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
quarterexchange
Posts: 1,549
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12/31/2012 10:31:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 12:32:45 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
I posted this on a debate, and I was told it was a good question for a forum, so here it is.

Why do people feel like they have to force abortion views on someone else?

For the pro-life view, they believe abortion is murder. If they are correct and abortion is murder, it most certainly would be okay to impose bans on murder on other people.

If you don't agree with abortion don't have one, don't take away the woman's right to have one.

See above

Also, why are men going against abortion, we don't have the experience of being pregnant, nor are we affected by abortion.

Again, assuming the pro-life position is correct and abortion is murder, it doesn't matter if it directly affects them for it to be justified to prohibit abortions.

I personally don't know where I stand on the issue. I frankly don't feel comfortable with the implications of any of the sides being correct, whether they be Pro-Life, Pro-Choice, or people who draw a line somewhere else during the pregnancy.
I don't discriminate....I hate everybody.
tmar19652
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12/31/2012 10:39:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I also find it hard to make up my mind about abortion, but I feel that neither side has proven killing a fetus is or is not murder, and therefore we should not restrict the right to have an abortion.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
Chuz-Life
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1/1/2013 12:10:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 4:32:20 PM, tulle wrote:
The problem with that is people who are against abortion generally are so because they believe it is murder. In their eyes, that would be akin to saying "if you don't like murder, don't murder someone."

Nailed it ^^
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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Chuz-Life
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1/1/2013 12:14:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 10:39:29 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
I also find it hard to make up my mind about abortion, but I feel that neither side has proven killing a fetus is or is not murder, and therefore we should not restrict the right to have an abortion.

So, when someone like me TRIES to argue against abortion and maybe convince you that an abortion is murder... your response if to claim I should (as a man) 'mind my own business' and 'stop trying to force my views' onto others?

Yeah, that makes sense. Especially on a site where DEBATING the (expletive omitted) issues are what we are (another expletive omitted) here for.
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

http://www.debate.org...
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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1/1/2013 1:11:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'll stop when we make murder legal, k?
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EvanK
Posts: 599
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1/1/2013 5:35:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 12:32:45 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
I posted this on a debate, and I was told it was a good question for a forum, so here it is.

Why do people feel like they have to force abortion views on someone else? If you don't agree with abortion don't have one, don't take away the woman's right to have one. Also, why are men going against abortion, we don't have the experience of being pregnant, nor are we affected by abortion.

I believe a fetus is human, because it possesses the DNA of a human being. I also believe murder is wrong. Ergo, I am against abortion.

Why do I feel the need to "force my views" on women? Well, first, I'm arguing against abortion, not "forcing my views". I'm not standing outside abortion facilities trying to interfere. Secondly, why even have laws? Why can't I murder? Because you think it's wrong? Well you're forcing your views on me. Why can't I smoke cigarettes, despite being only 3 months below legal age? Because you're forcing your views on me? Why can't I drink before being 21? Why can't I steal? Why can't I work without a permit? Because other people are forcing their opinions on me.

Yes, laws are necessary, however, don't go spouting off the whole "you're forcing your views on women" spiel, because the whole idea of laws, is exactly that. They are preventing me from: smoking, drinking, and working (without getting involved with tax payer funded paper pushers) before I reach a certain age. They are forcing their views on me. Why is weed illegal? Crack? Heroin? Because some people feel the need to force their views on others. Whether it's right or wrong is beside the point right now. The fact is, "view pushing" is what our entire legal system is centered around.

Something I don't understand, though, is if I got a girl pregnant, with her consent (we both chose to "do it", choosing to use no contraceptives) but she decides she doesn't want the child, but I do, she can still get an abortion without me having any say so. But if I decide I don't want the child, and she does, she can sue me for child support. In other words, I have to use my body for 18 years to provide money for her, despite me not wanting to use my body that way. :P

In other words, she gets all the choice, I don't. It's my child just as much as it is hers, and so it is both our responsibilities.

So yeah, despite being a man, I will have an opinion.
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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1/1/2013 5:48:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm guessing this attracted a pro-life crowd.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
EvanK
Posts: 599
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1/1/2013 5:49:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 5:48:17 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
I'm guessing this attracted a pro-life crowd.

You asked...
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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1/1/2013 6:07:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 5:49:54 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 1/1/2013 5:48:17 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
I'm guessing this attracted a pro-life crowd.

You asked...

My bad
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
EvanK
Posts: 599
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1/1/2013 6:12:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 6:07:41 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 1/1/2013 5:49:54 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 1/1/2013 5:48:17 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
I'm guessing this attracted a pro-life crowd.

You asked...

My bad

As usual, no refutes, rebutals, or anything of the sort. If you want to post on a debate site, it helps to, umm....I don't know....debate! Not simply post an opinion, and regret having posted said opinion because there are people who disagree with you, and you don't know how to back up your own arguments. Either show me and the other pro life people why we're wrong, or simply stop posting about the matter.
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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1/1/2013 7:16:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 6:12:38 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 1/1/2013 6:07:41 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 1/1/2013 5:49:54 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 1/1/2013 5:48:17 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
I'm guessing this attracted a pro-life crowd.

You asked...

My bad

As usual, no refutes, rebutals, or anything of the sort. If you want to post on a debate site, it helps to, umm....I don't know....debate! Not simply post an opinion, and regret having posted said opinion because there are people who disagree with you, and you don't know how to back up your own arguments. Either show me and the other pro life people why we're wrong, or simply stop posting about the matter.

Here is a debate, if I scratch my skin and kill 1000 cells is it murder? Those cells have human dna. And what is a fetus, a ball of cells.

Humans are characterized by having a large brain relative to body size, with a particularly well developed neocortex, prefrontal cortex and temporal lobes, making them capable of abstract reasoning, language, introspection, problem solving and culture through social learning. This mental capability, combined with an adaptation to bipedal locomotion that frees the hands for manipulating objects, has allowed humans to make far greater use of tools than any other living species on Earth. Humans are the only extant species known to build fires and cook their food, as well as the only known species to clothe themselves and create and use numerous other technologies and arts. The study of humans is the scientific discipline of anthropology. Does a fetus have those characteristics, no it doesn't.

Can a fetus live outside of the body? No, I'm pro-choice up until it can live outside of the body. But only when it can live outside of the womb is it a human, or murder.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
EvanK
Posts: 599
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1/1/2013 7:27:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 7:16:51 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 1/1/2013 6:12:38 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 1/1/2013 6:07:41 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 1/1/2013 5:49:54 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 1/1/2013 5:48:17 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
I'm guessing this attracted a pro-life crowd.

You asked...

My bad

As usual, no refutes, rebutals, or anything of the sort. If you want to post on a debate site, it helps to, umm....I don't know....debate! Not simply post an opinion, and regret having posted said opinion because there are people who disagree with you, and you don't know how to back up your own arguments. Either show me and the other pro life people why we're wrong, or simply stop posting about the matter.

Here is a debate, if I scratch my skin and kill 1000 cells is it murder? Those cells have human dna. And what is a fetus, a ball of cells.

That is because skin cells are skin cells, and not human beings. Tell me, at what point does the "ball of cells" scientifically become a homo sapien?


Humans are characterized by having a large brain relative to body size, with a particularly well developed neocortex, prefrontal cortex and temporal lobes, making them capable of abstract reasoning, language, introspection, problem solving and culture through social learning. This mental capability, combined with an adaptation to bipedal locomotion that frees the hands for manipulating objects, has allowed humans to make far greater use of tools than any other living species on Earth. Humans are the only extant species known to build fires and cook their food, as well as the only known species to clothe themselves and create and use numerous other technologies and arts. The study of humans is the scientific discipline of anthropology. Does a fetus have those characteristics, no it doesn't.

It is at a different stage of developement. Are you saying that humans who aren't capable of doing such things, ie the mentally disabled, subject to laws that allow their extermination? What if I had a kid who was born with a mental disability? Should I be allowed to kill it? A fetus is simply at a different stage of developement from you or I, or a baby, or an elderly person, or a toddler, etc. It is still a homo sapien fetus.


Can a fetus live outside of the body? No, I'm pro-choice up until it can live outside of the body. But only when it can live outside of the womb is it a human, or murder.

When exactly is that? There have been fetuses who survive outside of the womb long before the 40th week of gestation. There have also been those who didn't make it. So when exactly, does the fetus become human? I prefer to follow the science, and believe that it is human from conception. Just becase it doesn't look like you or I, doesn't mean it isn't a human. It simply isn't as developed as you or I.

And again, why can't I smoke weed, since it is my body, and my choice?
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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1/1/2013 7:41:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Your science has never proved a fetus is a human. My science has never proven a fetus is not a human. I feel that because of that you cannot ban abortion because it has not been proven to be murder, nor has it proven to not be murder.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
EvanK
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1/1/2013 7:47:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 7:41:20 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
Your science has never proved a fetus is a human. My science has never proven a fetus is not a human. I feel that because of that you cannot ban abortion because it has not been proven to be murder, nor has it proven to not be murder.

You still haven't answered my questions.
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
EvanK
Posts: 599
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1/1/2013 7:55:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 7:41:20 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
Your science has never proved a fetus is a human. My science has never proven a fetus is not a human. I feel that because of that you cannot ban abortion because it has not been proven to be murder, nor has it proven to not be murder.

Oh, and my science, is simply science. Not backed by any politics or religion. Again, tell me exactly when does a "ball of cells" becomes a homo sapien.
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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1/1/2013 7:57:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 7:55:53 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 1/1/2013 7:41:20 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
Your science has never proved a fetus is a human. My science has never proven a fetus is not a human. I feel that because of that you cannot ban abortion because it has not been proven to be murder, nor has it proven to not be murder.

Oh, and my science, is simply science. Not backed by any politics or religion. Again, tell me exactly when does a "ball of cells" becomes a homo sapien.

There is certainly bias in science. And it becomes a homo sapien when it does not live in another homo sapien.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
EvanK
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1/1/2013 8:29:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 7:57:39 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 1/1/2013 7:55:53 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 1/1/2013 7:41:20 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
Your science has never proved a fetus is a human. My science has never proven a fetus is not a human. I feel that because of that you cannot ban abortion because it has not been proven to be murder, nor has it proven to not be murder.

Oh, and my science, is simply science. Not backed by any politics or religion. Again, tell me exactly when does a "ball of cells" becomes a homo sapien.

There is certainly bias in science. And it becomes a homo sapien when it does not live in another homo sapien.
Again, that is subjective. First off, it contains the DNA and genetic make up of a homo sapien. It is simply at an earlier stage in developement. Secondly, some fetuses can live outside the womb earlier than others. At what point are they officially homo sapiens? And does the bolded quote of yours mean you support the abortion of a fetus at, lets say, 35 weeks gestation? Again, when does it officially become a homo sapien?
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
Chuz-Life
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1/1/2013 9:05:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 7:41:20 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
Your science has never proved a fetus is a human. My science has never proven a fetus is not a human. I feel that because of that you cannot ban abortion because it has not been proven to be murder, nor has it proven to not be murder.

Nevermind the fact that we already HAVE laws which make the unjust killing of a child in the womb a CRIME of MURDER.

Right?
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

http://www.debate.org...
tulle
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1/1/2013 9:53:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 9:05:43 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
At 1/1/2013 7:41:20 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
Your science has never proved a fetus is a human. My science has never proven a fetus is not a human. I feel that because of that you cannot ban abortion because it has not been proven to be murder, nor has it proven to not be murder.

Nevermind the fact that we already HAVE laws which make the unjust killing of a child in the womb a CRIME of MURDER.

Right?

Well, fetuses have sentimental value to those that want them? If you were in a coma and I came along and unplugged you, that would be murder. If your family chose to end your life support, it would be their choice.
yang.
Chuz-Life
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1/1/2013 11:26:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 9:53:52 PM, tulle wrote:
At 1/1/2013 9:05:43 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
At 1/1/2013 7:41:20 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
Your science has never proved a fetus is a human. My science has never proven a fetus is not a human. I feel that because of that you cannot ban abortion because it has not been proven to be murder, nor has it proven to not be murder.

Nevermind the fact that we already HAVE laws which make the unjust killing of a child in the womb a CRIME of MURDER.

Right?

Well, fetuses have sentimental value to those that want them? If you were in a coma and I came along and unplugged you, that would be murder. If your family chose to end your life support, it would be their choice.

Tulle, the question is "can you be charged with murder for killing anything other than another human being/ person?"

The answer is; No

And the conclusion is that because you can be charged with murder for killing a child in the womb, that is proof positive that they are already legally being considered as 'persons' whether abortion remains legal or not.
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

http://www.debate.org...
DudeWithoutTheE
Posts: 53
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1/2/2013 12:40:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 11:26:52 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
And the conclusion is that because you can be charged with murder for killing a child in the womb, that is proof positive that they are already legally being considered as 'persons' whether abortion remains legal or not.

That proves that the legal system is inconsistent on the issue, it doesn't prove that either side is right. As the blurb in my profile states, this is deontology vs consequentialism. On a deontological model, killing people is wrong. On a consequentialist calculus, if you can kill the baby without making it suffer, or only slightly suffer, and prevent the obvious harms of unwanted pregnancy and motherhood, that is morally required in the situation when these harms are sufficiently greater than the benefits of motherhood (and the woman herself is the obvious person to weigh said costs). Since philosophers have been arguing those exact issues in the abstract for hundreds of years and not proven it conclusively either way, neither conception of morality is strictly preferable to the other.

What this means in practice is that I'm still not sure what I think on the issue itself, but that it's a very easy topic on which to strawman and unfairly write the opposition off as bad people. Most pro-life people do not hate women. Most pro-choice people do not think killing people is good.

At 12/31/2012 10:39:29 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
I also find it hard to make up my mind about abortion, but I feel that neither side has proven killing a fetus is or is not murder, and therefore we should not restrict the right to have an abortion.

This isn't a valid syllogism. 'We should lean on the side of not restricting an abortion' does not logically have to follow from 'We don't know whether it's murder or not.' It's a perfectly reasonable position to take that if something might be murder, it should be banned, if we believe that murder is really, really bad. (To argue from analogy, consider whether the question of whether we should ban pornography that features performers that are neither clearly of age nor clearly underage).
1Devilsadvocate
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1/2/2013 1:13:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 4:07:58 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
At 12/31/2012 12:32:45 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
I posted this on a debate, and I was told it was a good question for a forum, so here it is.

Why do people feel like they have to force abortion views on someone else? If you don't agree with abortion don't have one, don't take away the woman's right to have one. Also, why are men going against abortion, we don't have the experience of being pregnant, nor are we affected by abortion.

Tmar... could you explain how people expressing their views against legalized abortion amounts to what you call 'force?'

I presume that he's talking about those who want to make it illegal.
In your view, are the people who are fighting for more restrictions on guns 'forcing their views onto others' as well?
There is a difference, in that abortion doesn't affect everyone else, guns do.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

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1Devilsadvocate
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1/2/2013 1:20:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/1/2013 7:57:39 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 1/1/2013 7:55:53 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 1/1/2013 7:41:20 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
Your science has never proved a fetus is a human. My science has never proven a fetus is not a human. I feel that because of that you cannot ban abortion because it has not been proven to be murder, nor has it proven to not be murder.

Oh, and my science, is simply science. Not backed by any politics or religion. Again, tell me exactly when does a "ball of cells" becomes a homo sapien.

There is certainly bias in science. And it becomes a homo sapien when it does not live in another homo sapien.

does not, or cannot
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
Chuz-Life
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1/2/2013 2:19:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/2/2013 1:13:12 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 12/31/2012 4:07:58 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
At 12/31/2012 12:32:45 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
I posted this on a debate, and I was told it was a good question for a forum, so here it is.

Why do people feel like they have to force abortion views on someone else? If you don't agree with abortion don't have one, don't take away the woman's right to have one. Also, why are men going against abortion, we don't have the experience of being pregnant, nor are we affected by abortion.

Tmar... could you explain how people expressing their views against legalized abortion amounts to what you call 'force?'

I presume that he's talking about those who want to make it illegal.
In your view, are the people who are fighting for more restrictions on guns 'forcing their views onto others' as well?
There is a difference, in that abortion doesn't affect everyone else, guns do.

Would you like to see some pictures of some human beings adversely 'affected' by abortion?
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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Chuz-Life
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1/2/2013 2:22:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/2/2013 12:40:47 PM, DudeWithoutTheE wrote:
At 1/1/2013 11:26:52 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
And the conclusion is that because you can be charged with murder for killing a child in the womb, that is proof positive that they are already legally being considered as 'persons' whether abortion remains legal or not.

That proves that the legal system is inconsistent on the issue, it doesn't prove that either side is right...

And then I changed the channel.
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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PinkSparkles
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1/3/2013 3:39:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Men have just as much right as women to be part of the abortion debate. Women do not make babies on their own. A man should have a say in what happens to his child, especially if he can be forced to pay child support for it.
As for the whole "its my body" argument, a baby doesnt just force itself into a woman's body. The woman engages in an act that puts the baby there. She has intercourse knowing that babies are made from sex. She is essentially giving that baby permission to use her body when she engages in intercourse.
(This doesnt apply to cases of rape)