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Is America about to fall?

R0b1Billion
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1/18/2013 9:41:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Or not?
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malcolmxy
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1/18/2013 10:17:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
America is falling. We are an empire on the decline in our reign over the world, and we are also watching the next empire emerge in the east.

It's not the fall that's the issue. It's the fact that we refuse to believe we're falling such that when we are inches from terra firma, we won't be prepared for the landing (which England, as our predecessor, did quite gracefully, all things considered).

As they say, it ain't the fall that'll kill ya -it's the abrupt end to your outer momentum without that same abrupt stop, initially, to your internal momentum..or something like that.
War is over, if you want it.

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OberHerr
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1/18/2013 11:18:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/18/2013 10:17:01 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
America is falling. We are an empire on the decline in our reign over the world, and we are also watching the next empire emerge in the east.

It's not the fall that's the issue. It's the fact that we refuse to believe we're falling such that when we are inches from terra firma, we won't be prepared for the landing (which England, as our predecessor, did quite gracefully, all things considered).

As they say, it ain't the fall that'll kill ya -it's the abrupt end to your outer momentum without that same abrupt stop, initially, to your internal momentum..or something like that.

I was unaware that we were an empire.
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imabench
Posts: 21,229
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1/18/2013 11:30:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
In love? Yes......

America will soon fall in love with.........

Canada
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Buddamoose
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1/18/2013 11:37:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/18/2013 11:30:29 PM, imabench wrote:
In love? Yes......

America will soon fall in love with.........

Canada

And they will have a beautiul love child admired throughout the world for itsls splendor and magnificence :D
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Oryus
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1/19/2013 12:24:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/18/2013 11:18:22 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/18/2013 10:17:01 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
America is falling. We are an empire on the decline in our reign over the world, and we are also watching the next empire emerge in the east.

It's not the fall that's the issue. It's the fact that we refuse to believe we're falling such that when we are inches from terra firma, we won't be prepared for the landing (which England, as our predecessor, did quite gracefully, all things considered).

As they say, it ain't the fall that'll kill ya -it's the abrupt end to your outer momentum without that same abrupt stop, initially, to your internal momentum..or something like that.

I was unaware that we were an empire.

Yeah, we pretty much are.

But not necessarily "empire" like, "empire" *wiggles fingers ominously*
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
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: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
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OberHerr
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1/19/2013 12:27:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/18/2013 11:37:45 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 1/18/2013 11:30:29 PM, imabench wrote:
In love? Yes......

America will soon fall in love with.........

Canada

And they will have a beautiul love child admired throughout the world for itsls splendor and magnificence :D

Canerica? US Canada? Ameranda?
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OberHerr
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1/19/2013 12:30:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2013 12:24:15 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 1/18/2013 11:18:22 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/18/2013 10:17:01 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
America is falling. We are an empire on the decline in our reign over the world, and we are also watching the next empire emerge in the east.

It's not the fall that's the issue. It's the fact that we refuse to believe we're falling such that when we are inches from terra firma, we won't be prepared for the landing (which England, as our predecessor, did quite gracefully, all things considered).

As they say, it ain't the fall that'll kill ya -it's the abrupt end to your outer momentum without that same abrupt stop, initially, to your internal momentum..or something like that.

I was unaware that we were an empire.

Yeah, we pretty much are.

But not necessarily "empire" like, "empire" *wiggles fingers ominously*

So....what are we? I thought we were a republic.

Cause, we haven't really expanded much....
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Oryus
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1/19/2013 12:34:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2013 12:30:06 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/19/2013 12:24:15 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 1/18/2013 11:18:22 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/18/2013 10:17:01 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
America is falling. We are an empire on the decline in our reign over the world, and we are also watching the next empire emerge in the east.

It's not the fall that's the issue. It's the fact that we refuse to believe we're falling such that when we are inches from terra firma, we won't be prepared for the landing (which England, as our predecessor, did quite gracefully, all things considered).

As they say, it ain't the fall that'll kill ya -it's the abrupt end to your outer momentum without that same abrupt stop, initially, to your internal momentum..or something like that.

I was unaware that we were an empire.

Yeah, we pretty much are.

But not necessarily "empire" like, "empire" *wiggles fingers ominously*

So....what are we? I thought we were a republic.

Cause, we haven't really expanded much....

lolwut? We are a republic. And sure we have. We control a bunch of cute little nooks of the world. Anyway, it's not the technical way to explain it since we don't, as a matter of fact, have an "emperor." But still, we are pretty imperialistic. "Empire" is pretty much a misnomer all around these days as there are no true blue "empires" anymore.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
imabench
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1/19/2013 12:41:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2013 12:27:49 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/18/2013 11:37:45 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 1/18/2013 11:30:29 PM, imabench wrote:
In love? Yes......

America will soon fall in love with.........

Canada

And they will have a beautiul love child admired throughout the world for itsls splendor and magnificence :D

Canerica? US Canada? Ameranda?

Her name will be Amanda (America + Canada) And she will be the hottest babe the world has ever seen.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
OberHerr
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1/19/2013 12:42:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2013 12:34:53 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 1/19/2013 12:30:06 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/19/2013 12:24:15 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 1/18/2013 11:18:22 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/18/2013 10:17:01 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
America is falling. We are an empire on the decline in our reign over the world, and we are also watching the next empire emerge in the east.

It's not the fall that's the issue. It's the fact that we refuse to believe we're falling such that when we are inches from terra firma, we won't be prepared for the landing (which England, as our predecessor, did quite gracefully, all things considered).

As they say, it ain't the fall that'll kill ya -it's the abrupt end to your outer momentum without that same abrupt stop, initially, to your internal momentum..or something like that.

I was unaware that we were an empire.

Yeah, we pretty much are.

But not necessarily "empire" like, "empire" *wiggles fingers ominously*

So....what are we? I thought we were a republic.

Cause, we haven't really expanded much....

lolwut? We are a republic. And sure we have. We control a bunch of cute little nooks of the world.

That we bought legally. Not conquered. Or got through treaties or whatever. Empire implies that we are still trying to get more area, which we aren't really, though if we could somehow get some I'm sure we'd try.

Anyway, it's not the technical way to explain it since we don't, as a matter of fact, have an "emperor." But still, we are pretty imperialistic. "Empire" is pretty much a misnomer all around these days as there are no true blue "empires" anymore.

See, I get how back in the day, around say TR's presidency and back, we were pretty imperialistic. Everyone was, not that that's an excuse. But we don't actually go out and try to actively conquer countries, get land, ect. The few major additions we've made are either be the populace of that area wanting to be part of us(Hawaii), or by us buying the area(Alaska).

Puerto Rico is another potential example of the populace wanting to be part of us.

We don't conquer, though we do our best to stack the cards in our favor.
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OberHerr
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1/19/2013 12:44:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2013 12:41:16 AM, imabench wrote:
At 1/19/2013 12:27:49 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/18/2013 11:37:45 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 1/18/2013 11:30:29 PM, imabench wrote:
In love? Yes......

America will soon fall in love with.........

Canada

And they will have a beautiul love child admired throughout the world for itsls splendor and magnificence :D

Canerica? US Canada? Ameranda?

Her name will be Amanda (America + Canada) And she will be the hottest babe the world has ever seen.

Bleh, lame. Canerica sounds cool. Could have a bad@$$ canary on their flag, have the canary be their national bird.

Imagine the national anthem "OOOOOO CANERICA! THY NATIONAL BIRD IS A BAD@$$ CANARY!"

And imagine the version of "Canerica, fvck yeah!".
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Oryus
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1/19/2013 12:45:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2013 12:42:08 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/19/2013 12:34:53 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 1/19/2013 12:30:06 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/19/2013 12:24:15 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 1/18/2013 11:18:22 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/18/2013 10:17:01 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
America is falling. We are an empire on the decline in our reign over the world, and we are also watching the next empire emerge in the east.

It's not the fall that's the issue. It's the fact that we refuse to believe we're falling such that when we are inches from terra firma, we won't be prepared for the landing (which England, as our predecessor, did quite gracefully, all things considered).

As they say, it ain't the fall that'll kill ya -it's the abrupt end to your outer momentum without that same abrupt stop, initially, to your internal momentum..or something like that.

I was unaware that we were an empire.

Yeah, we pretty much are.

But not necessarily "empire" like, "empire" *wiggles fingers ominously*

So....what are we? I thought we were a republic.

Cause, we haven't really expanded much....

lolwut? We are a republic. And sure we have. We control a bunch of cute little nooks of the world.

That we bought legally. Not conquered. Or got through treaties or whatever. Empire implies that we are still trying to get more area, which we aren't really, though if we could somehow get some I'm sure we'd try.

Haha oh we could.. fairly easily and almost any country.. But would it benefit us and could we rationalize it to our citizens? meh probably not. But expansion is not always the best thing for a country anyway....
Anyway, it's not the technical way to explain it since we don't, as a matter of fact, have an "emperor." But still, we are pretty imperialistic. "Empire" is pretty much a misnomer all around these days as there are no true blue "empires" anymore.

See, I get how back in the day, around say TR's presidency and back, we were pretty imperialistic. Everyone was, not that that's an excuse. But we don't actually go out and try to actively conquer countries, get land, ect. The few major additions we've made are either be the populace of that area wanting to be part of us(Hawaii), or by us buying the area(Alaska).

Puerto Rico is another potential example of the populace wanting to be part of us.

We don't conquer, though we do our best to stack the cards in our favor.

haha... yeah... that's an understatement
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
bossyburrito
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1/19/2013 12:48:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"That we bought legally. Not conquered. Or got through treaties or whatever. Empire implies that we are still trying to get more area, which we aren't really, though if we could somehow get some I'm sure we'd try."
*Cough cough Mexico cough cough*
*Cough cough 1776 cough cough*
#UnbanTheMadman

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Or lose the race to rats
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To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

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OberHerr
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1/19/2013 12:51:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2013 12:45:30 AM, Oryus wrote:
Haha oh we could.. fairly easily and almost any country.. But would it benefit us and could we rationalize it to our citizens? meh probably not. But expansion is not always the best thing for a country anyway....

Depends on what your expanding onto(TWSS).

I can think of a couple areas that would benefit us greatly.

haha... yeah... that's an understatement

I know, I know. We('ve) do(ne) a lot of bad sh!t. Still doesn't make us imperialistic. Which is one thing that bugs me when people call us imperialistic. To be imperiialistic basically requires you to actively try to conquer land that would benefit you. I can think of a certain area of the world *cough* Middle East, that would be very beneficial for us to own. And no, damn it, we dont own Iraq.
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OberHerr
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1/19/2013 12:53:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2013 12:48:00 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
"That we bought legally. Not conquered. Or got through treaties or whatever. Empire implies that we are still trying to get more area, which we aren't really, though if we could somehow get some I'm sure we'd try."
*Cough cough Mexico cough cough*
*Cough cough 1776 cough cough*

We were discussing the "nooks and crannies" we own around the world.

And, I mean, hell, why not bring up the whole issue of those Indians that lied here before us? I'm pretty sure they didn't just give us their land.
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OberHerr
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1/19/2013 12:54:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2013 12:53:32 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/19/2013 12:48:00 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
"That we bought legally. Not conquered. Or got through treaties or whatever. Empire implies that we are still trying to get more area, which we aren't really, though if we could somehow get some I'm sure we'd try."
*Cough cough Mexico cough cough*
*Cough cough 1776 cough cough*

We were discussing the "nooks and crannies" we own around the world.


And, I mean, hell, why not bring up the whole issue of those Indians that lived here before us? I'm pretty sure they didn't just give us their land.

Fix'd.
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bossyburrito
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1/19/2013 12:55:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2013 12:54:00 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/19/2013 12:53:32 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/19/2013 12:48:00 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
"That we bought legally. Not conquered. Or got through treaties or whatever. Empire implies that we are still trying to get more area, which we aren't really, though if we could somehow get some I'm sure we'd try."
*Cough cough Mexico cough cough*
*Cough cough 1776 cough cough*

We were discussing the "nooks and crannies" we own around the world.


And, I mean, hell, why not bring up the whole issue of those Indians that lived here before us? I'm pretty sure they didn't just give us their land.

Fix'd.

That too.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
OberHerr
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1/19/2013 1:08:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2013 12:55:18 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 1/19/2013 12:54:00 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/19/2013 12:53:32 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/19/2013 12:48:00 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
"That we bought legally. Not conquered. Or got through treaties or whatever. Empire implies that we are still trying to get more area, which we aren't really, though if we could somehow get some I'm sure we'd try."
*Cough cough Mexico cough cough*
*Cough cough 1776 cough cough*

We were discussing the "nooks and crannies" we own around the world.


And, I mean, hell, why not bring up the whole issue of those Indians that lived here before us? I'm pretty sure they didn't just give us their land.

Fix'd.

That too.

My point was we were talking about land we've gotten in the last, 70-50 years.
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malcolmxy
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1/19/2013 3:27:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
First off, there is no Republic, in the history of that form of government, which hasn't devolved into a dictatorship, and when that dictatorship is in control of the largest economy and most powerful fighting force in the world, that is, by definition, an empire.

I do not believe President Obama is a dictator, nor do I believe President Bush was a dictator.

Or, that is to say, I believe that ANY president is now in a dictatorial position, because presidents can now wage war without first going to Congress (the people's branch of government, and the only one we truly elect) and ASKING TO DECLARE WAR.

Heck, they don't even go through the motions anymore. Need to bomb a sovereign country? Have you known that you likely would for months? Well, heck, just procrastinate and then when the time comes say it was an emergency and that you had to bomb that country back into the stone age for TEN DAYS before Congress was privy to any more than the news reports we all were.

That is tyrannical, dictatorial empiric behavior.

And, if you don't believe that Manifest Destiny was a conquering situation, then you have no clue how we got all the land from the west side of the 13 colonies through to the Pacific Ocean Coastline.

The only reason we didn't have overseas colonies was because we were too poor to go get 'em and secure 'em.
War is over, if you want it.

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malcolmxy
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1/19/2013 3:30:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
When did we "legally purchase" Hawaii? (and, we may have...I didn't look it up, but I don't think we did. We came, we saw naked island women, and we conquered, as far as I know)
War is over, if you want it.

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OberHerr
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1/19/2013 3:44:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2013 3:30:11 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
When did we "legally purchase" Hawaii? (and, we may have...I didn't look it up, but I don't think we did. We came, we saw naked island women, and we conquered, as far as I know)

We didn't, they were a democracy of some sort I believe, opted to join us, and I guess we said yes. Similar to what may happen in Puerto Rico.
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OberHerr
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1/19/2013 3:49:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
And I'm not denying that we were imperialistic. I'm just saying we aren't today.

And regardless of what Obama or Bush have done, they still aren't tyrants. Tyrants, are much worse. We have the luxury of not knowing what a real tyrant is.
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malcolmxy
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1/19/2013 4:59:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2013 3:49:12 AM, OberHerr wrote:
And I'm not denying that we were imperialistic. I'm just saying we aren't today.

And regardless of what Obama or Bush have done, they still aren't tyrants. Tyrants, are much worse. We have the luxury of not knowing what a real tyrant is.

This is magnitude of tyrannical behavior.

Imprison citizens without due process and sentence them to prison terms without a trial?

Yep

Assassinate citizens, including a 16-year-old boy?

Yep

List of other people who are both citizens and who there is some will to assassinate (meaning it could happen, and could be more likely than not to happen)?

Yep

Torture of citizens?

Yep

Erosion of the 1st and 2nd Amendments (the parts of the 2nd that matter, or the weapons that do, handguns NOT being among them)

Yep (free speech zones? The way I read the contract, the whole joint is supposed to be a free speech zone)

War without end? (we are at war with Oceania. we have always been at war with Oceania)

Yep (seriously, we are in a constant state of undeclared war and with the exception of the Carter and Ford administrations, we pretty much have been since WWII's end when the Dept of War switched to the Dept of Defense)

I am NOT trying to compare anyone to Hitler, but Hitler started slow before the invasion of Poland as well (he went a little gangbusters after that, though).

This is it, Madge...tyranny - you're soaking in it.


Is it the smooth feel on your skin that has you missing it? It's not happening on a wide scale yet, but as we continue to accept it, it will.
War is over, if you want it.

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lannan13
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1/19/2013 9:02:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/18/2013 10:17:01 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
America is falling. We are an empire on the decline in our reign over the world, and we are also watching the next empire emerge in the east.

It's not the fall that's the issue. It's the fact that we refuse to believe we're falling such that when we are inches from terra firma, we won't be prepared for the landing (which England, as our predecessor, did quite gracefully, all things considered).

As they say, it ain't the fall that'll kill ya -it's the abrupt end to your outer momentum without that same abrupt stop, initially, to your internal momentum..or something like that.

We said 25 years ago that Japan was going to over take the US and their wheels fell off the same thing is happening to CHina.
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Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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1/19/2013 7:39:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2013 3:44:24 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/19/2013 3:30:11 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
When did we "legally purchase" Hawaii? (and, we may have...I didn't look it up, but I don't think we did. We came, we saw naked island women, and we conquered, as far as I know)

We didn't, they were a democracy of some sort I believe, opted to join us, and I guess we said yes. Similar to what may happen in Puerto Rico.

Lolwut.

America: that's some might nice sugar you got ther.
Hawaii: what?
America: you know we like sugar
Hawaii: what?
America: maybe you become a territory maybe you keep yer kneecaps

Basically, sugar was in short supply and Hawaii had a shat ton of it. American corporate interests found Hawaii as an American territory convenient because it enabled them to bypass normal immigration statutes that come along with statehood.

Also, native Hawaiians were mostly split in regards to American annexation (http://libweb.hawaii.edu...). Over 20,000 signatures of an anti-annexation petition when the entire native-Hawaiian population at the time was around 40,000 (http://www.hawaiianencyclopedia.com...) says something about who decided what what.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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1/19/2013 8:00:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
America is a wonderful country that I wish the best for. It is weakening, but there's time for repair.

China can disrupt American influence around the world -- particularly in Asia. This is a threat, but there's a long while until China reaches the level of America in terms of global economic and military might. Secessionist movements can have a negative impact on Chinese internal politics in the future. One way America can slow China's development is by covert operations that strengthen these kind of movements.

What weakens America the most right now is its internal politics. If the economic gets back on the track, the military stays strong, education improves significantly, adding a few more things to the list -- America will grow more powerful.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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1/19/2013 8:08:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2013 7:39:06 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 1/19/2013 3:44:24 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/19/2013 3:30:11 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
When did we "legally purchase" Hawaii? (and, we may have...I didn't look it up, but I don't think we did. We came, we saw naked island women, and we conquered, as far as I know)

We didn't, they were a democracy of some sort I believe, opted to join us, and I guess we said yes. Similar to what may happen in Puerto Rico.

Lolwut.

America: that's some might nice sugar you got ther.
Hawaii: what?
America: you know we like sugar
Hawaii: what?
America: maybe you become a territory maybe you keep yer kneecaps

Basically, sugar was in short supply and Hawaii had a shat ton of it. American corporate interests found Hawaii as an American territory convenient because it enabled them to bypass normal immigration statutes that come along with statehood.

Also, native Hawaiians were mostly split in regards to American annexation (http://libweb.hawaii.edu...). Over 20,000 signatures of an anti-annexation petition when the entire native-Hawaiian population at the time was around 40,000 (http://www.hawaiianencyclopedia.com...) says something about who decided what what.

I am laughing so hard right now.
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