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innomen
Posts: 10,052
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2/7/2013 12:54:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
We all do it. There are those who rail against it, but do it all the time. There is nothing wrong with generalizing as a tool, in fact we must generalize to make sense of the world around us. Generalizations are essentially recognizing patterns, and then making some predictions based on those patterns. The thing is they can really bother some people, like Asian women are really terrible drivers. Now this is based on my own experience, and I recognize patterns that are real. Now, we all know that not ALL Asian women are terrible drivers, but my best guess is they are on the whole worse drivers than say a middle aged white male.

I also understand the dangers involved, where we can end up using terms like inferior and superior, which can be problematic. However, it can also be problematic to remove generalizations. They are necessary to daily life, and allow us to make good judgments in life. Agree?
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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2/7/2013 1:12:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yes. The best we can note is that these generalizations are formulated on the basis of patterns recognized for a majority/great deal of observed phenomena; they will inevitably have exceptions, whose existence, however, do not discredit, but only qualify, them.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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2/7/2013 1:15:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/7/2013 12:54:13 PM, innomen wrote:
We all do it. There are those who rail against it, but do it all the time. There is nothing wrong with generalizing as a tool, in fact we must generalize to make sense of the world around us. Generalizations are essentially recognizing patterns, and then making some predictions based on those patterns. The thing is they can really bother some people, like Asian women are really terrible drivers. Now this is based on my own experience, and I recognize patterns that are real. Now, we all know that not ALL Asian women are terrible drivers, but my best guess is they are on the whole worse drivers than say a middle aged white male.

I also understand the dangers involved, where we can end up using terms like inferior and superior, which can be problematic. However, it can also be problematic to remove generalizations. They are necessary to daily life, and allow us to make good judgments in life. Agree?

Generalizing in general can allow us to make good judgments in life, yes. I took three classes with this professor and I didn't like any of them- I probably shouldn't take any more classes with them. I've gone into this business five times and they messed up my order each time- I probably shouldn't give them my money anymore.

Another issue with generalizing groups of people is that those individuals are affected psychologically by that generalization and thus the generalization can become a self-fulfilling prophecy or an unwarranted "norm" that people actually literally aspire to be.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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2/7/2013 1:31:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/7/2013 1:15:18 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 2/7/2013 12:54:13 PM, innomen wrote:
We all do it. There are those who rail against it, but do it all the time. There is nothing wrong with generalizing as a tool, in fact we must generalize to make sense of the world around us. Generalizations are essentially recognizing patterns, and then making some predictions based on those patterns. The thing is they can really bother some people, like Asian women are really terrible drivers. Now this is based on my own experience, and I recognize patterns that are real. Now, we all know that not ALL Asian women are terrible drivers, but my best guess is they are on the whole worse drivers than say a middle aged white male.

I also understand the dangers involved, where we can end up using terms like inferior and superior, which can be problematic. However, it can also be problematic to remove generalizations. They are necessary to daily life, and allow us to make good judgments in life. Agree?

Generalizing in general can allow us to make good judgments in life, yes. I took three classes with this professor and I didn't like any of them- I probably shouldn't take any more classes with them. I've gone into this business five times and they messed up my order each time- I probably shouldn't give them my money anymore.

Another issue with generalizing groups of people is that those individuals are affected psychologically by that generalization and thus the generalization can become a self-fulfilling prophecy or an unwarranted "norm" that people actually literally aspire to be.

I don't entirely disagree with you that there are hazzards to this, as I pointed out in the problems in having a "Black History Month", but you seemed okay with that.

I don't disagree that there are problems with this, and that I am often a victim of my own understanding of generalities, but they are inevitable. Some of the biggest anti - generalities people are the ones who are apt to paint a Tea-Party person, or a Republican in a certain way. It is inevitable.
Polaris
Posts: 1,120
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2/7/2013 3:37:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/7/2013 12:54:13 PM, innomen wrote:
We all do it. There are those who rail against it, but do it all the time. There is nothing wrong with generalizing as a tool, in fact we must generalize to make sense of the world around us. Generalizations are essentially recognizing patterns, and then making some predictions based on those patterns. The thing is they can really bother some people, like Asian women are really terrible drivers. Now this is based on my own experience, and I recognize patterns that are real. Now, we all know that not ALL Asian women are terrible drivers, but my best guess is they are on the whole worse drivers than say a middle aged white male.

I also understand the dangers involved, where we can end up using terms like inferior and superior, which can be problematic. However, it can also be problematic to remove generalizations. They are necessary to daily life, and allow us to make good judgments in life. Agree?

Inductive reasoning necessarily results in generalizations, but they are understood as being true to varying degrees of certainty based upon the strength of the inference. The problem with stereotypes is that they are often overstated and neglect variation amongst individuals.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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2/7/2013 9:02:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/7/2013 1:31:42 PM, innomen wrote:
At 2/7/2013 1:15:18 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 2/7/2013 12:54:13 PM, innomen wrote:
We all do it. There are those who rail against it, but do it all the time. There is nothing wrong with generalizing as a tool, in fact we must generalize to make sense of the world around us. Generalizations are essentially recognizing patterns, and then making some predictions based on those patterns. The thing is they can really bother some people, like Asian women are really terrible drivers. Now this is based on my own experience, and I recognize patterns that are real. Now, we all know that not ALL Asian women are terrible drivers, but my best guess is they are on the whole worse drivers than say a middle aged white male.

I also understand the dangers involved, where we can end up using terms like inferior and superior, which can be problematic. However, it can also be problematic to remove generalizations. They are necessary to daily life, and allow us to make good judgments in life. Agree?

Generalizing in general can allow us to make good judgments in life, yes. I took three classes with this professor and I didn't like any of them- I probably shouldn't take any more classes with them. I've gone into this business five times and they messed up my order each time- I probably shouldn't give them my money anymore.

Another issue with generalizing groups of people is that those individuals are affected psychologically by that generalization and thus the generalization can become a self-fulfilling prophecy or an unwarranted "norm" that people actually literally aspire to be.

I don't entirely disagree with you that there are hazzards to this, as I pointed out in the problems in having a "Black History Month", but you seemed okay with that.

I don't disagree that there are problems with this, and that I am often a victim of my own understanding of generalities, but they are inevitable. Some of the biggest anti - generalities people are the ones who are apt to paint a Tea-Party person, or a Republican in a certain way. It is inevitable.

Now you're just generalizing generalizers >:(
Just kidding lol

Anyway, I did recognize that you see problems with it. I was just pointing out another one.

What did I seem okay with?
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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2/7/2013 9:29:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/7/2013 1:09:00 PM, Mirza wrote:
It is correct to place stereotypes on people or generalize them in many cases. It doesn't have to be negative.

I have a huge c0ck. All my people do.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
Franz_Reynard
Posts: 1,227
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2/7/2013 9:34:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/7/2013 12:54:13 PM, innomen wrote:
We all do it. There are those who rail against it, but do it all the time. There is nothing wrong with generalizing as a tool, in fact we must generalize to make sense of the world around us. Generalizations are essentially recognizing patterns, and then making some predictions based on those patterns. The thing is they can really bother some people, like Asian women are really terrible drivers. Now this is based on my own experience, and I recognize patterns that are real. Now, we all know that not ALL Asian women are terrible drivers, but my best guess is they are on the whole worse drivers than say a middle aged white male.

I also understand the dangers involved, where we can end up using terms like inferior and superior, which can be problematic. However, it can also be problematic to remove generalizations. They are necessary to daily life, and allow us to make good judgments in life. Agree?

Nah, I disagree.

My opinion (and readings in philosophy and mathematics has confirmed this) is that the greater the generalization, the less truth it contains. Generalizations aren't actually recognizing patterns. They are, instead, noticing a given set of values that perceptively follow a pattern, then fallaciously extrapolating those values to define other potentially irrelevant things with similar, though irrelevant characteristics.

Let me give you an example.

I have been in two car accidents in my life, and neither were my fault (I was struck in both occasions). The first was a mid-thirties white woman with children in her obnoxiously large vehicle (she sped up as I merged into her lane as an act of hostility and ran over the entire hood of my Daewoo).

The second was a middle-aged white man who slammed into me in a snowstorm at an intersection. I was stopped.

If I were to generalize, I would say that white people are the worst drivers. But, that's because I'm taking an irrelevant characteristic that the people who struck me shared, and extrapolating something I dislike about those people I experienced to everyone who shares that characteristic, which is fallacious.

It has absolutely no utility in life. All it does is create social discord and misinterpretations.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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2/8/2013 3:11:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/7/2013 9:34:35 PM, Franz_Reynard wrote:
At 2/7/2013 12:54:13 PM, innomen wrote:
We all do it. There are those who rail against it, but do it all the time. There is nothing wrong with generalizing as a tool, in fact we must generalize to make sense of the world around us. Generalizations are essentially recognizing patterns, and then making some predictions based on those patterns. The thing is they can really bother some people, like Asian women are really terrible drivers. Now this is based on my own experience, and I recognize patterns that are real. Now, we all know that not ALL Asian women are terrible drivers, but my best guess is they are on the whole worse drivers than say a middle aged white male.

I also understand the dangers involved, where we can end up using terms like inferior and superior, which can be problematic. However, it can also be problematic to remove generalizations. They are necessary to daily life, and allow us to make good judgments in life. Agree?

Nah, I disagree.

My opinion (and readings in philosophy and mathematics has confirmed this) is that the greater the generalization, the less truth it contains. Generalizations aren't actually recognizing patterns. They are, instead, noticing a given set of values that perceptively follow a pattern, then fallaciously extrapolating those values to define other potentially irrelevant things with similar, though irrelevant characteristics.


That is not an exercise of generalities, but an application of prejudice, or a need to justify pre-existing, and often baseless, conclusions. It's backward to generalizations.

Let me give you an example.

I have been in two car accidents in my life, and neither were my fault (I was struck in both occasions). The first was a mid-thirties white woman with children in her obnoxiously large vehicle (she sped up as I merged into her lane as an act of hostility and ran over the entire hood of my Daewoo).

The second was a middle-aged white man who slammed into me in a snowstorm at an intersection. I was stopped.

If I were to generalize, I would say that white people are the worst drivers. But, that's because I'm taking an irrelevant characteristic that the people who struck me shared, and extrapolating something I dislike about those people I experienced to everyone who shares that characteristic, which is fallacious.

It has absolutely no utility in life. All it does is create social discord and misinterpretations.

Yet you drive now? If you drive, you are generalizing that other drivers will not ram into you. You cannot base this on anything else but generalities, where you base your assumption that you will be able to drive safely today.

Sociologists rely heavily on generalizations to draw conclusions, indeed most sciences draw a hypothesis on observational generalities before they begin to work toward proof.

If you did not generalize, that is recognize the patterns and live by correlating responses to those generalities, you would not be able to make sense of the world.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,291
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2/18/2013 2:03:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 3:11:30 AM, innomen wrote:
At 2/7/2013 9:34:35 PM, Franz_Reynard wrote:
At 2/7/2013 12:54:13 PM, innomen wrote:
We all do it. There are those who rail against it, but do it all the time. There is nothing wrong with generalizing as a tool, in fact we must generalize to make sense of the world around us. Generalizations are essentially recognizing patterns, and then making some predictions based on those patterns. The thing is they can really bother some people, like Asian women are really terrible drivers. Now this is based on my own experience, and I recognize patterns that are real. Now, we all know that not ALL Asian women are terrible drivers, but my best guess is they are on the whole worse drivers than say a middle aged white male.

I also understand the dangers involved, where we can end up using terms like inferior and superior, which can be problematic. However, it can also be problematic to remove generalizations. They are necessary to daily life, and allow us to make good judgments in life. Agree?

Nah, I disagree.

My opinion (and readings in philosophy and mathematics has confirmed this) is that the greater the generalization, the less truth it contains. Generalizations aren't actually recognizing patterns. They are, instead, noticing a given set of values that perceptively follow a pattern, then fallaciously extrapolating those values to define other potentially irrelevant things with similar, though irrelevant characteristics.


That is not an exercise of generalities, but an application of prejudice, or a need to justify pre-existing, and often baseless, conclusions. It's backward to generalizations.

Let me give you an example.

I have been in two car accidents in my life, and neither were my fault (I was struck in both occasions). The first was a mid-thirties white woman with children in her obnoxiously large vehicle (she sped up as I merged into her lane as an act of hostility and ran over the entire hood of my Daewoo).

The second was a middle-aged white man who slammed into me in a snowstorm at an intersection. I was stopped.

If I were to generalize, I would say that white people are the worst drivers. But, that's because I'm taking an irrelevant characteristic that the people who struck me shared, and extrapolating something I dislike about those people I experienced to everyone who shares that characteristic, which is fallacious.

It has absolutely no utility in life. All it does is create social discord and misinterpretations.

Yet you drive now? If you drive, you are generalizing that other drivers will not ram into you. You cannot base this on anything else but generalities, where you base your assumption that you will be able to drive safely today.

Sociologists rely heavily on generalizations to draw conclusions, indeed most sciences draw a hypothesis on observational generalities before they begin to work toward proof.

If you did not generalize, that is recognize the patterns and live by correlating responses to those generalities, you would not be able to make sense of the world.

So you equate stereotypes with risk-management? Interesting.

What about the people that stereotype all people to be children of God?
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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2/19/2013 6:49:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/7/2013 12:54:13 PM, innomen wrote:
We all do it. There are those who rail against it, but do it all the time. There is nothing wrong with generalizing as a tool, in fact we must generalize to make sense of the world around us. Generalizations are essentially recognizing patterns, and then making some predictions based on those patterns. The thing is they can really bother some people, like Asian women are really terrible drivers. Now this is based on my own experience, and I recognize patterns that are real. Now, we all know that not ALL Asian women are terrible drivers, but my best guess is they are on the whole worse drivers than say a middle aged white male.

I also understand the dangers involved, where we can end up using terms like inferior and superior, which can be problematic. However, it can also be problematic to remove generalizations. They are necessary to daily life, and allow us to make good judgments in life. Agree?

It's certainly a fundamental cognitive tendency of human beings to fit everything under the sun into categories, i.e., to generalize. This is evolutionarily beneficial as it's conducive to an ability to respond more readily and efficiently to the things and conditions that we encounter in our environment than would be possible if we had to analyze and assess everything on an individual basis. Mm-hmm, if one had to reinvent his attitudinal wheel, as it were, for every specimen or instantiation of a type of thing, this would indeed be quite inefficient and not in the best interest of his survival or flourishing. That is, it's a good thing to be able to categorize stuff and not a trait that we can or should aspire to purge from of our mental nature. However, it's also a trait that's at the root of prejudice, discrimination, and racialism. Therefore although it's a necessary and good trait it's not all good. This needs to be recognized too, and if we don't wish to fall into the contemptible error of racialist thinking, well, then we have to make a conscientious effort to rein in our cognitive penchant for categorization and cease and desist from such rubbish as stereotyping female Asian motorists just so we can pride ourselves on being daringly politically incorrect.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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2/20/2013 3:30:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/19/2013 6:49:37 PM, Charles wrote:
At 2/7/2013 12:54:13 PM, innomen wrote:
We all do it. There are those who rail against it, but do it all the time. There is nothing wrong with generalizing as a tool, in fact we must generalize to make sense of the world around us. Generalizations are essentially recognizing patterns, and then making some predictions based on those patterns. The thing is they can really bother some people, like Asian women are really terrible drivers. Now this is based on my own experience, and I recognize patterns that are real. Now, we all know that not ALL Asian women are terrible drivers, but my best guess is they are on the whole worse drivers than say a middle aged white male.

I also understand the dangers involved, where we can end up using terms like inferior and superior, which can be problematic. However, it can also be problematic to remove generalizations. They are necessary to daily life, and allow us to make good judgments in life. Agree?

It's certainly a fundamental cognitive tendency of human beings to fit everything under the sun into categories, i.e., to generalize. This is evolutionarily beneficial as it's conducive to an ability to respond more readily and efficiently to the things and conditions that we encounter in our environment than would be possible if we had to analyze and assess everything on an individual basis. Mm-hmm, if one had to reinvent his attitudinal wheel, as it were, for every specimen or instantiation of a type of thing, this would indeed be quite inefficient and not in the best interest of his survival or flourishing. That is, it's a good thing to be able to categorize stuff and not a trait that we can or should aspire to purge from of our mental nature. However, it's also a trait that's at the root of prejudice, discrimination, and racialism. Therefore although it's a necessary and good trait it's not all good. This needs to be recognized too, and if we don't wish to fall into the contemptible error of racialist thinking, well, then we have to make a conscientious effort to rein in our cognitive penchant for categorization and cease and desist from such rubbish as stereotyping female Asian motorists just so we can pride ourselves on being daringly politically incorrect.

For everything wonderful, there is always a negative, often of equal value. If I generalize about Asian female drivers, it also correlates that I am able to drive because I am generalizing that everyone else has reasonable competence and won't slam into me in a frontal collision. I don't think it's being all that daringly politically incorrect to say that I generalize on Asian women drivers, that to me is incredibly tame. The problem with demonizing generalizations is you avoid the obvious conclusions that are important in helping to understand our lives and our society, and walk away from commonsense and wisdom.