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# Abolish Big Numbers

 Posts: 21,057 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/20/2013 8:03:31 PMPosted: 4 years agoActually a serious thread. Something I thought about the other day.What is the point of using ten different numerals? It's so clunky. A number like nine is actually pretty hard for the brain to deal with. Most people can't just look at a group of nine pebbles and automatically know how many there are. Unless it's organized in a pattern that the brain has already come to associate with nine.Sure, we have ten fingers. So I guess that makes sense for a base-ten. But we could just as easily base it on 5, for just one hand.Or we could go all the way down to this:http://en.wikipedia.org...That's probably the most practical counting system, really. Any calculation could be done in your head with ease.With base ten there's like....a ton of different combinations to remember. With this one that eliminates all the numbers above two, it only leaves 6 to remember. And only one of them is different from normal.0x0=0, 0x1=0, 0x2=2, 1x1=1, 1x2=2, 2x2=11GRAND POOBAH OF DDO fnord
 Posts: 5,818 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/20/2013 8:08:31 PMPosted: 4 years agonow you see that's not practical now b/c we have used the 10 based number system for so long that it would be difficult for everyone to change, so sorry, but I have to disagree with youEpsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
 Posts: 21,057 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/20/2013 8:11:01 PMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/20/2013 8:08:31 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:now you see that's not practical now b/c we have used the 10 based number system for so long that it would be difficult for everyone to change, so sorry, but I have to disagree with youWe went a long time without electricity. That's completely irrelevant to it's practicality.GRAND POOBAH OF DDO fnord
 Posts: 21,057 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/20/2013 8:12:46 PMPosted: 4 years agoThis is completely impractical for normal uses but it's still really interesting that someone thought of it:http://en.wikipedia.org...GRAND POOBAH OF DDO fnord
 Posts: 3,080 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/20/2013 8:13:53 PMPosted: 4 years agoI, myself, am partial to base-12. I just can't get a grip on ternary counting.If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
 Posts: 21,057 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/20/2013 8:15:09 PMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/20/2013 8:13:53 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:I, myself, am partial to base-12. I just can't get a grip on ternary counting.How is base-12 easier?GRAND POOBAH OF DDO fnord
 Posts: 3,080 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/20/2013 8:22:03 PMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/20/2013 8:15:09 PM, FREEDO wrote:At 3/20/2013 8:13:53 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:I, myself, am partial to base-12. I just can't get a grip on ternary counting.How is base-12 easier?If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
 Posts: 21,057 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/20/2013 8:39:19 PMPosted: 4 years agoThank you for introducing me to that channel.GRAND POOBAH OF DDO fnord
 Posts: 14,152 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/20/2013 8:45:44 PMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/20/2013 8:39:19 PM, FREEDO wrote:Thank you for introducing me to that channel.It's a good one."I love that you dress in repp ties, tweed jackets and khakis." ~ YYW #StandWithZarro #UnbanTheMadman "Some will sell their dreams for small desires Or lose the race to rats Get caught in ticking traps And start to dream of somewhere To relax their restless flight Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..." ~ Rush
 Posts: 3,080 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/20/2013 9:31:42 PMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/20/2013 8:39:19 PM, FREEDO wrote:Thank you for introducing me to that channel.No problem =)If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
 Posts: 2,855 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/21/2013 4:06:24 AMPosted: 4 years agoBase 3 is actually the most efficient system for what the OP is trying to accomplish.Any numbering system that is a base which is divisible by 4 (4, 8, 12, 16...) seems to make mathematics simpler.War is over, if you want it. Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
 Posts: 21,057 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/21/2013 4:31:11 AMPosted: 4 years agoIn what way is Base-8-Pi translated into music for that video? Does it work with any bit of random numbers or is it special?GRAND POOBAH OF DDO fnord
 Posts: 2,781 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/21/2013 5:11:30 AMPosted: 4 years agoI'm a base 2 man myself. But that comes naturally with being in the computer business."Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
 Posts: 21,057 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/21/2013 5:12:59 AMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/21/2013 5:11:30 AM, muzebreak wrote:I'm a base 2 man myself. But that comes naturally with being in the computer business.That would be the simplest. But it would just make numbers ridiculously long.GRAND POOBAH OF DDO fnord
 Posts: 2,781 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/21/2013 5:28:05 AMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/21/2013 5:12:59 AM, FREEDO wrote:At 3/21/2013 5:11:30 AM, muzebreak wrote:I'm a base 2 man myself. But that comes naturally with being in the computer business.That would be the simplest. But it would just make numbers ridiculously long.Indeed. Makes me wonder what pi might look like in binary.11.001001000011111101101010100010001000010110100011000010001101001100010011000110011000101000101110000000110111000001110011010001001010010000001001001110000010001000101001100111110011000111010000000010000010111011111010100110001110110001001110011011001000100101000101001010000010000111100110001110001101000000010011011101111011111001010100011001101100111100110100111010010000110001101100110000001010110000101001101101111100100101111100010100001101110100111111100001001101010110110101101101010100011100001001000101111001001000010110110101011101100110001001011110011111101100011011110100010011000100001011101001101001100011011111101101011010110000101111111111010111001011011011110100000001101011011111101101111011100011100001101011111110110101101010001001100111111010010110101110100111110010010000010001011111000100101100011111111001100100100100101000011001100101000111101100111001000101101100111101110000100000000001111100101110001010000101100011101111110000010110011000110110100100100000110110000111000101010111010011100110100110100100010110001111111010100011111101001001001100111101011111100000110110010101011101001000111101110010100011101011011001011000011100011000101111001101010110001000001000010101010010101110111001111011010101001010010000011101110000100101101001011001101101011001110000110000110101010011100100101010111100100110000000010011110001011101000110110000001000110010100001100000100001011111000011001010010000010111100100011000101110001101101100111000111011111000111001111001110111001011000001100000001110100001100000001110011011001001111000001110100010111011000000011110100010100011111011010111000101010111011111000001101111010011000101001011001001110111100010101111001011111101101001010101011000000101110001100000111001100101010100100101111100111010101001010101101010111001010001010111010010001001100001100010011000111110100000010100010000000101010111001010001110010110101000101010101010110001000010110110101101001100110001011100001101000001000101000001111010001100111010100001010101001000011010101111011111000111001011101001100100111011001111101110000101000001000101100011011011111011110000101010001010111010100111000101010111010111010000011000001100011111011011001110010111000011111000010110100110111000011110010011000111101010111111010110101110100011001101101100001001001100111101011100011110100011001001010011100000010010100010010101100001100111011100111011100011110100100010011000011010110100101110111001101011111100010010111111111010000001101101100110001010000010000110010011011000011101100000001001110011001111101100100001101010011001000101001000011111001010110001100000010111011110110010000000001100101110111110000100010111010101110111101001100001010111010110110001110111000010011000100011000000101110101101100101000110111000100000100011100010010011111010000001110100111001011010101100110001010000111101101101011011111111001110000011111101000100001000111001001011100000101101000100100000101010010010000100001000000000010001101001110010001111000001001010100111100001111110011011010111100010000111000110011010000100001011110110111010010110110010011010011001110000110010011100011000011010101111010011100010001111000001101010010100011010000011010010110110000101010000101111011010001001011000001111101001110010100010101011010100010011001110100011011011101110111100001011011011000001001101111"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
 Posts: 2,855 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/21/2013 10:46:44 AMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/21/2013 4:31:11 AM, FREEDO wrote:In what way is Base-8-Pi translated into music for that video? Does it work with any bit of random numbers or is it special?8 notes on the scale...War is over, if you want it. Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
 Posts: 11,196 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/21/2013 11:18:18 AMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/20/2013 8:22:03 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:At 3/20/2013 8:15:09 PM, FREEDO wrote:At 3/20/2013 8:13:53 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:I, myself, am partial to base-12. I just can't get a grip on ternary counting.How is base-12 easier?At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote: If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
 Posts: 1,518 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/21/2013 3:28:05 PMPosted: 4 years agoThere is a civilization today that has 3 "#"s: zero, a little, a lot.Other civilizations have used other bases60 - Babylonians20 - Mayans8 - Native Americans2 - Aborigines & Vikings12 (aka duodecimal or dozenal) - Many places including areas in; Nigeria, Nimbia, Nepal, India.There are many things that are associated with base 12:Twelve signs of the zodiac, twelve months in a year, Babylonians had twelve hours in a day, now we have 12 at day & 12 at night, traditional Chinese calendars, clocks, and compasses are based on the twelve Branches, 12 inches in a foot, 12 ounces in a troy pound, 12 old British pence in a shilling, eggs are sold by the dozen, gross=144=12^2, great gross=1728=12^3, etc.10 - Many civilizations, including ancient Egyptians, & ancient Hebrews.Using low bases is not so simple especially if you have to chisel out each digit, or write with rare commodities like ink & parchment.Aside from that, doing mathematics with lower bases would take longer, & be harder to do mentally (particularly important when ink & parchment were rare. On the other hand, using higher bases would require more memorization.10 was probably based on the fact that we have 10 fingers.I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like." "Albert Einstein http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
 Posts: 3,080 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/21/2013 3:37:19 PMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/21/2013 3:28:05 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:There is a civilization today that has 3 "#"s: zero, a little, a lot.Other civilizations have used other bases60 - Babylonians 20 - Mayans8 - Native Americans2 - Aborigines & Vikings12 (aka duodecimal or dozenal) - Many places including areas in; Nigeria, Nimbia, Nepal, India.There are many things that are associated with base 12:Twelve signs of the zodiac, twelve months in a year, Babylonians had twelve hours in a day, now we have 12 at day & 12 at night, traditional Chinese calendars, clocks, and compasses are based on the twelve Branches, 12 inches in a foot, 12 ounces in a troy pound, 12 old British pence in a shilling, eggs are sold by the dozen, gross=144=12^2, great gross=1728=12^3, etc.10 - Many civilizations, including ancient Egyptians, & ancient Hebrews.Using low bases is not so simple especially if you have to chisel out each digit, or write with rare commodities like ink & parchment.Aside from that, doing mathematics with lower bases would take longer, & be harder to do mentally (particularly important when ink & parchment were rare. On the other hand, using higher bases would require more memorization.10 was probably based on the fact that we have 10 fingers.That's... excessive.If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
 Posts: 1,518 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/21/2013 3:49:09 PMPosted: 4 years agoI find it much harder to understand where the 7 day week came from, & why it is dominate today.It originated with the ancient Hebrews & Babylonians, but what made them come up with it?Month year & day are based on the sun & moon, but where did the idea of weeks come from? & if they wanted to make a division it should have been 5, 6, 10, or 15?& why have all other systems (such as the Chinese Han Dynasty which used five-day and ten-day cycles), & all attempts to change it (France discontinued the seven-day week for a ten-day week with the introduction of the republican calendar, the USSR discontinued the seven-day week for a five-day week, then a six-day week, in both countries, it lasted for about 10 years), have all failed.I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like." "Albert Einstein http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
 Posts: 12,028 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/21/2013 3:55:20 PMPosted: 4 years agoI always heard that base 6 was good for doing math... http://en.wikipedia.org...and, after glancing at wikipedia it shows a Handy way to count with Base-6 ;)Goes up to 36 using just your two hands! much better than 10!"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already." Metaphysics: "The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
 Posts: 12,028 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/21/2013 3:56:37 PMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/21/2013 3:55:20 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:I always heard that base 6 was good for doing math... http://en.wikipedia.org...and, after glancing at wikipedia it shows a Handy way to count with Base-6 ;)Goes up to 36 using just your two hands! much better than 10!up, sorry.. make that 55.. Apparently I can't count :)"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already." Metaphysics: "The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
 Posts: 12,028 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/21/2013 3:58:31 PMPosted: 4 years agoupp... nope, sorry again..can count up to the traditional, base-ten # of 35... my bad."He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already." Metaphysics: "The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
 Posts: 12,028 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/21/2013 4:30:08 PMPosted: 4 years agohttp://en.wikipedia.org...Wikipedia Said:Finger counting systems still in use in many regions of Asia allow the counting to 12 by using a single hand. The thumb acts as a pointer touching the three finger bones of each finger in turn, starting with the outermost bone of the little finger. One hand is used to count numbers up to 12. The other hand is used to display the number of completed base-12s. This continues until twelve dozen is reached, therefore 144 is counted.[4][Note 3][5]Now That's Handy :)"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already." Metaphysics: "The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
 Posts: 21,057 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/21/2013 4:54:44 PMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/21/2013 3:49:09 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:I find it much harder to understand where the 7 day week came from, & why it is dominate today.It originated with the ancient Hebrews & Babylonians, but what made them come up with it?Month year & day are based on the sun & moon, but where did the idea of weeks come from? & if they wanted to make a division it should have been 5, 6, 10, or 15?& why have all other systems (such as the Chinese Han Dynasty which used five-day and ten-day cycles), & all attempts to change it (France discontinued the seven-day week for a ten-day week with the introduction of the republican calendar, the USSR discontinued the seven-day week for a five-day week, then a six-day week, in both countries, it lasted for about 10 years), have all failed.I think the Bible is mainly at fault. 7 day creation.GRAND POOBAH OF DDO fnord
 Posts: 21,057 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/21/2013 4:59:48 PMPosted: 4 years agoThis Discordian calender with 5 day weeks and 5 months is far superior.GRAND POOBAH OF DDO fnord
 Posts: 2,855 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/22/2013 2:54:28 AMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/21/2013 3:37:19 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:At 3/21/2013 3:28:05 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:There is a civilization today that has 3 "#"s: zero, a little, a lot.Other civilizations have used other bases60 - Babylonians 20 - Mayans8 - Native Americans2 - Aborigines & Vikings12 (aka duodecimal or dozenal) - Many places including areas in; Nigeria, Nimbia, Nepal, India.There are many things that are associated with base 12:Twelve signs of the zodiac, twelve months in a year, Babylonians had twelve hours in a day, now we have 12 at day & 12 at night, traditional Chinese calendars, clocks, and compasses are based on the twelve Branches, 12 inches in a foot, 12 ounces in a troy pound, 12 old British pence in a shilling, eggs are sold by the dozen, gross=144=12^2, great gross=1728=12^3, etc.10 - Many civilizations, including ancient Egyptians, & ancient Hebrews.Using low bases is not so simple especially if you have to chisel out each digit, or write with rare commodities like ink & parchment.Aside from that, doing mathematics with lower bases would take longer, & be harder to do mentally (particularly important when ink & parchment were rare. On the other hand, using higher bases would require more memorization.10 was probably based on the fact that we have 10 fingers.That's... excessive.No sh!t...Greeks used 12 (which is why so many things come in 12s...they kinda ruled the world around the time those things were conceived), and Arabs/Romans used 10.base 3 is the most efficient.base 16 is used by computers.undecillion is the coolest name for a number (1 with 33 zeros after it, or 11 sets of 3 zeros, thus uni + deca), and a million makes no sense given a billion, trillion, quadrillion, etc.It doesn't fit the sequence (I guess it was the biggest number the Greeks thought they would ever need...probably why they lost out to Rome...)War is over, if you want it. Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...