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Abolish Big Numbers

FREEDO
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3/20/2013 8:03:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Actually a serious thread. Something I thought about the other day.

What is the point of using ten different numerals? It's so clunky. A number like nine is actually pretty hard for the brain to deal with. Most people can't just look at a group of nine pebbles and automatically know how many there are. Unless it's organized in a pattern that the brain has already come to associate with nine.

Sure, we have ten fingers. So I guess that makes sense for a base-ten. But we could just as easily base it on 5, for just one hand.

Or we could go all the way down to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

That's probably the most practical counting system, really. Any calculation could be done in your head with ease.

With base ten there's like....a ton of different combinations to remember. With this one that eliminates all the numbers above two, it only leaves 6 to remember. And only one of them is different from normal.

0x0=0, 0x1=0, 0x2=2, 1x1=1, 1x2=2, 2x2=11
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fnord
cybertron1998
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3/20/2013 8:08:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
now you see that's not practical now b/c we have used the 10 based number system for so long that it would be difficult for everyone to change, so sorry, but I have to disagree with you
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
FREEDO
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3/20/2013 8:11:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/20/2013 8:08:31 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
now you see that's not practical now b/c we have used the 10 based number system for so long that it would be difficult for everyone to change, so sorry, but I have to disagree with you

We went a long time without electricity. That's completely irrelevant to it's practicality.
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fnord
RyuuKyuzo
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3/20/2013 8:13:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I, myself, am partial to base-12. I just can't get a grip on ternary counting.
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FREEDO
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3/20/2013 8:15:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/20/2013 8:13:53 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I, myself, am partial to base-12. I just can't get a grip on ternary counting.

How is base-12 easier?
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fnord
RyuuKyuzo
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3/20/2013 8:22:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/20/2013 8:15:09 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/20/2013 8:13:53 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I, myself, am partial to base-12. I just can't get a grip on ternary counting.

How is base-12 easier?
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
bossyburrito
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3/20/2013 8:45:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/20/2013 8:39:19 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Thank you for introducing me to that channel.

It's a good one.
#UnbanTheMadman

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Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
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To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

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RyuuKyuzo
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3/20/2013 9:31:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/20/2013 8:39:19 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Thank you for introducing me to that channel.

No problem =)
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malcolmxy
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3/21/2013 4:06:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Base 3 is actually the most efficient system for what the OP is trying to accomplish.

Any numbering system that is a base which is divisible by 4 (4, 8, 12, 16...) seems to make mathematics simpler.
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FREEDO
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3/21/2013 4:31:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
In what way is Base-8-Pi translated into music for that video? Does it work with any bit of random numbers or is it special?
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fnord
muzebreak
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3/21/2013 5:11:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm a base 2 man myself. But that comes naturally with being in the computer business.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
FREEDO
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3/21/2013 5:12:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 5:11:30 AM, muzebreak wrote:
I'm a base 2 man myself. But that comes naturally with being in the computer business.

That would be the simplest. But it would just make numbers ridiculously long.
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fnord
muzebreak
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3/21/2013 5:28:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 5:12:59 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/21/2013 5:11:30 AM, muzebreak wrote:
I'm a base 2 man myself. But that comes naturally with being in the computer business.

That would be the simplest. But it would just make numbers ridiculously long.

Indeed. Makes me wonder what pi might look like in binary.

11.001001000011111101101010100010001000010110100011000010001101001100010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"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
malcolmxy
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3/21/2013 10:46:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 4:31:11 AM, FREEDO wrote:
In what way is Base-8-Pi translated into music for that video? Does it work with any bit of random numbers or is it special?

8 notes on the scale...
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
wrichcirw
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3/21/2013 11:18:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/20/2013 8:22:03 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
At 3/20/2013 8:15:09 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/20/2013 8:13:53 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I, myself, am partial to base-12. I just can't get a grip on ternary counting.

How is base-12 easier?

At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
1Devilsadvocate
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3/21/2013 3:28:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
There is a civilization today that has 3 "#"s: zero, a little, a lot.

Other civilizations have used other bases

60 - Babylonians
20 - Mayans
8 - Native Americans
2 - Aborigines & Vikings
12 (aka duodecimal or dozenal) - Many places including areas in; Nigeria, Nimbia, Nepal, India.
There are many things that are associated with base 12:
Twelve signs of the zodiac, twelve months in a year, Babylonians had twelve hours in a day, now we have 12 at day & 12 at night, traditional Chinese calendars, clocks, and compasses are based on the twelve Branches, 12 inches in a foot, 12 ounces in a troy pound, 12 old British pence in a shilling, eggs are sold by the dozen, gross=144=12^2, great gross=1728=12^3, etc.

10 - Many civilizations, including ancient Egyptians, & ancient Hebrews.

Using low bases is not so simple especially if you have to chisel out each digit, or write with rare commodities like ink & parchment.
Aside from that, doing mathematics with lower bases would take longer, & be harder to do mentally (particularly important when ink & parchment were rare. On the other hand, using higher bases would require more memorization.
10 was probably based on the fact that we have 10 fingers.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
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http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
RyuuKyuzo
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3/21/2013 3:37:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 3:28:05 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
There is a civilization today that has 3 "#"s: zero, a little, a lot.

Other civilizations have used other bases

60 - Babylonians
20 - Mayans
8 - Native Americans
2 - Aborigines & Vikings
12 (aka duodecimal or dozenal) - Many places including areas in; Nigeria, Nimbia, Nepal, India.
There are many things that are associated with base 12:
Twelve signs of the zodiac, twelve months in a year, Babylonians had twelve hours in a day, now we have 12 at day & 12 at night, traditional Chinese calendars, clocks, and compasses are based on the twelve Branches, 12 inches in a foot, 12 ounces in a troy pound, 12 old British pence in a shilling, eggs are sold by the dozen, gross=144=12^2, great gross=1728=12^3, etc.

10 - Many civilizations, including ancient Egyptians, & ancient Hebrews.

Using low bases is not so simple especially if you have to chisel out each digit, or write with rare commodities like ink & parchment.
Aside from that, doing mathematics with lower bases would take longer, & be harder to do mentally (particularly important when ink & parchment were rare. On the other hand, using higher bases would require more memorization.
10 was probably based on the fact that we have 10 fingers.

That's... excessive.
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
1Devilsadvocate
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3/21/2013 3:49:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I find it much harder to understand where the 7 day week came from, & why it is dominate today.
It originated with the ancient Hebrews & Babylonians, but what made them come up with it?
Month year & day are based on the sun & moon, but where did the idea of weeks come from? & if they wanted to make a division it should have been 5, 6, 10, or 15?

& why have all other systems (such as the Chinese Han Dynasty which used five-day and ten-day cycles), & all attempts to change it (France discontinued the seven-day week for a ten-day week with the introduction of the republican calendar, the USSR discontinued the seven-day week for a five-day week, then a six-day week, in both countries, it lasted for about 10 years), have all failed.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
mattrodstrom
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3/21/2013 3:55:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I always heard that base 6 was good for doing math... http://en.wikipedia.org...
and, after glancing at wikipedia it shows a Handy way to count with Base-6 ;)

Goes up to 36 using just your two hands! much better than 10!
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
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mattrodstrom
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3/21/2013 3:56:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 3:55:20 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
I always heard that base 6 was good for doing math... http://en.wikipedia.org...
and, after glancing at wikipedia it shows a Handy way to count with Base-6 ;)

Goes up to 36 using just your two hands! much better than 10!

up, sorry.. make that 55.. Apparently I can't count :)
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
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3/21/2013 3:58:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
upp... nope, sorry again..

can count up to the traditional, base-ten # of 35... my bad.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
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3/21/2013 4:30:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Wikipedia Said:
Finger counting systems still in use in many regions of Asia allow the counting to 12 by using a single hand. The thumb acts as a pointer touching the three finger bones of each finger in turn, starting with the outermost bone of the little finger. One hand is used to count numbers up to 12. The other hand is used to display the number of completed base-12s. This continues until twelve dozen is reached, therefore 144 is counted.[4][Note 3][5]

Now That's Handy :)
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
FREEDO
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3/21/2013 4:54:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 3:49:09 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
I find it much harder to understand where the 7 day week came from, & why it is dominate today.
It originated with the ancient Hebrews & Babylonians, but what made them come up with it?
Month year & day are based on the sun & moon, but where did the idea of weeks come from? & if they wanted to make a division it should have been 5, 6, 10, or 15?

& why have all other systems (such as the Chinese Han Dynasty which used five-day and ten-day cycles), & all attempts to change it (France discontinued the seven-day week for a ten-day week with the introduction of the republican calendar, the USSR discontinued the seven-day week for a five-day week, then a six-day week, in both countries, it lasted for about 10 years), have all failed.

I think the Bible is mainly at fault. 7 day creation.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
malcolmxy
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3/22/2013 2:54:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/21/2013 3:37:19 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
At 3/21/2013 3:28:05 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
There is a civilization today that has 3 "#"s: zero, a little, a lot.

Other civilizations have used other bases

60 - Babylonians
20 - Mayans
8 - Native Americans
2 - Aborigines & Vikings
12 (aka duodecimal or dozenal) - Many places including areas in; Nigeria, Nimbia, Nepal, India.
There are many things that are associated with base 12:
Twelve signs of the zodiac, twelve months in a year, Babylonians had twelve hours in a day, now we have 12 at day & 12 at night, traditional Chinese calendars, clocks, and compasses are based on the twelve Branches, 12 inches in a foot, 12 ounces in a troy pound, 12 old British pence in a shilling, eggs are sold by the dozen, gross=144=12^2, great gross=1728=12^3, etc.

10 - Many civilizations, including ancient Egyptians, & ancient Hebrews.

Using low bases is not so simple especially if you have to chisel out each digit, or write with rare commodities like ink & parchment.
Aside from that, doing mathematics with lower bases would take longer, & be harder to do mentally (particularly important when ink & parchment were rare. On the other hand, using higher bases would require more memorization.
10 was probably based on the fact that we have 10 fingers.

That's... excessive.

No sh!t...

Greeks used 12 (which is why so many things come in 12s...they kinda ruled the world around the time those things were conceived), and Arabs/Romans used 10.

base 3 is the most efficient.

base 16 is used by computers.

undecillion is the coolest name for a number (1 with 33 zeros after it, or 11 sets of 3 zeros, thus uni + deca), and a million makes no sense given a billion, trillion, quadrillion, etc.

It doesn't fit the sequence (I guess it was the biggest number the Greeks thought they would ever need...probably why they lost out to Rome...)
War is over, if you want it.

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