Total Posts:33|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Why is this not racist?

Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2009 4:37:43 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Cartoonized stereotype Asian talking about noodles.

This of course, is absolutely fine.

However, if someone makes an advertisement showing a cartoon black guy hocking microwaveable fried chicken, suddenly, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are up in arms, and the company will be expected to make some sort of public apology.

Why, DDO? Why?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2009 4:39:14 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/10/2009 4:37:43 PM, Kleptin wrote:


Cartoonized stereotype Asian talking about noodles.

This of course, is absolutely fine.

However, if someone makes an advertisement showing a cartoon black guy hocking microwaveable fried chicken, suddenly, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are up in arms, and the company will be expected to make some sort of public apology.

Why, DDO? Why?

Because society is not only full of double-standards, it is largely (and blissfully) unaware that such double-standards exist. That would be my guess.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2009 5:11:53 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/10/2009 5:04:56 PM, wonderwoman wrote:
1) It is humorous

2) it is stereotypical not racist

Lots of racist things are humorous. That doesn't make them less racist. Also, stereotyping is the act of associating a trait with a group of people. Stereotyping based on sex is sexist, stereotyping based on socioeconomic class is classist, stereotyping based on race is racist.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2009 5:13:22 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
And you didn't answer my question. Compare this commercial with the hypothetical one about black people and fried chicken. Fit that into your response. Either explain to me why that hypothetical commercial is OK, or explain why the hypothetical commercial is different from this one.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2009 5:18:49 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
The noodle advert presents a crude stereotype but it's not really racist. I would say the same about this chicken advert from the 80s.

I think people are naturally less resistant to being stereotyped and less likely to be offended if it is positive attributes that are being represented, eg. athleticism for black people or wisdom for Asian people.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2009 5:21:38 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
It is racist. Most people just don't care about it, except for those that will make some hulabaloo over it, whether it is civil rights group, or whomever.

I mean, lets be honest here - the only reason people aren't making the big raucous that Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton may make is because there isn't enough of a movement to bother. Cultural sensitivity also isn't as tuned in to such stereotypes as well, not only because the history there isn't substantial enough, but because I think most are mature enough to reasonably ask for some sensitivity.

But, who cares? Your point is lost Kleptin because almost everyone here will agree with you - its just that they will sit and complain about it, then do nothing, because they realize it is just ingrained in the population and will stay that way until the generation that exploited this cultural weakness dies off, which will be fairly soon.
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2009 5:30:10 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
The creators of the commercial can get away with this crap because advocacy and lobbying groups for Asian rights are virtually non-existent. What do you say, Kleptin? Wanna start our own?
Television Rot: http://tvrot.com...
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2009 5:34:28 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I want to live to see the day where the racially hypersensitive are viewed in as much a negative light as the racists of today.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2009 5:36:48 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/10/2009 5:30:10 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
The creators of the commercial can get away with this crap because advocacy and lobbying groups for Asian rights are virtually non-existent. What do you say, Kleptin? Wanna start our own?

I used to be part of a few. Then I just stopped caring. Didn't have enough time to study.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2009 5:52:55 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/10/2009 5:11:53 PM, Kleptin wrote:

Lots of racist things are humorous. That doesn't make them less racist.
Agreed.

Also, stereotyping is the act of associating a trait with a group of people. Stereotyping based on sex is sexist, stereotyping based on socioeconomic class is classist, stereotyping based on race is racist.

I see where you're coming from but most definitions of racism (and sexism) include the notion of superiority, which stereotyping doesn't necesarilly do. http://www.google.co.uk...

Although I do feel it is generally a negative thing, I don't think all racIAL stereotyping is automatically racIST.

I've addressed you, Lwerd and other users for making generalisations based on race before but I haven't accused you of racism.

I want to live to see the day where the racially hypersensitive are viewed in as much a negative light as the racists of today.

I'm not sure what you mean here.

Are you referring to anyone in particular?

Do you think that the noodle advert is racist yourself or would that be hypersensitivity?
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2009 6:40:22 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/10/2009 5:52:55 PM, feverish wrote:
Do you think that the noodle advert is racist yourself or would that be hypersensitivity?

I don't find this commercial to be particularly bad, and it doesn't kick up a lot of dust. For some reason, there is a high tolerance for Asian stereotyping in the media, but a hypersensitivity to racism for other minorities elsewhere.

Walgreens recently pulled the Chia Obama off the shelves because some people protested that when the Chia head grew, it resembled a green afro. CostCo was pressured to pull a "Cuddle with me" doll because the African-American version of the doll was packaged with a stuffed monkey. There are countless examples of these really far-fetched examples of racial hypersensitivity and frankly, I find it odd that people take the time to connect these obscure dots when blatant stereotyping of Asians is right on their television sets.

And lately, there are some fried chicken places that have changed their name to "Obama fried chicken", and they're getting press coverage.

Seriously? Seriously??
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2009 6:51:24 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/10/2009 5:36:48 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 11/10/2009 5:30:10 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
The creators of the commercial can get away with this crap because advocacy and lobbying groups for Asian rights are virtually non-existent. What do you say, Kleptin? Wanna start our own?

I used to be part of a few. Then I just stopped caring. Didn't have enough time to study.

Do tell. I can't find any that aren't small, what-essentially-are social clubs.

Not that I want to join any. Just curious is all.
Television Rot: http://tvrot.com...
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2009 7:11:08 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/10/2009 6:40:22 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 11/10/2009 5:52:55 PM, feverish wrote:
Do you think that the noodle advert is racist yourself or would that be hypersensitivity?

I don't find this commercial to be particularly bad, and it doesn't kick up a lot of dust. For some reason, there is a high tolerance for Asian stereotyping in the media, but a hypersensitivity to racism for other minorities elsewhere.

Walgreens recently pulled the Chia Obama off the shelves because some people protested that when the Chia head grew, it resembled a green afro.

Lol, that's the only reason why such a thing was ever thought of in the first place.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2009 9:15:54 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Noodles are healthier than fried chicken. People do not want to be stereotyped clogging their arteries.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
wonderwoman
Posts: 744
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2009 9:18:11 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/10/2009 9:15:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Noodles are healthier than fried chicken. People do not want to be stereotyped clogging their arteries.

literally made me laugh out loud
LeafRod
Posts: 1,548
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2009 9:53:18 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
It's not really a negative stereotype, I don't think. It also has some (although twisted) roots in Chinese culture. A black guy eating fried chicken would be neither.
LeafRod
Posts: 1,548
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2009 9:54:35 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/10/2009 9:15:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Noodles are healthier than fried chicken. People do not want to be stereotyped clogging their arteries.

Exactly.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2009 11:02:43 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Agree with PJ. Asians don't care enough to protest such frivolousness anyway. They laugh their slanted-eyed selves all the way to the bank when they become Dr. Chin or Professor Chang.
President of DDO
USAPitBull63
Posts: 668
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/12/2009 2:57:10 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/10/2009 5:34:28 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I want to live to see the day where the racially hypersensitive are viewed in as much a negative light as the racists of today.

I already see them that way. Congrats, you're alive.

Also, Aunt Jemima commercials still exist, although her voice has changed over the years from "Mammy" to very proper (grammatically) and no trace of a southern accent. Not exactly Lil' Sambo, but still more stereotype than archetype.

Lastly, the reason more of an uproar wasn't made about this commercial is because the Asian community doesn't have attention-you-know-whats like Sharpton or Jackson to cause a ruckus.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/12/2009 8:28:51 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I posted this in another thread once. I'm 100% Italian-American and let me just say... the men in my family are very good looking and aren't as wimpy or creepy as this guy lol.

I think people make a fuss over things when they WANT something. What are Asians asking for? What are Italians asking for? We don't expect anything so we don't make a huge deal about every little racist thing. We understand that it's an unfortunate reality for EVERY culture. On the other hand, a lot of black leaders want something or want something for the people they represent. The only way to get it is to draw attention to every minor thing that they feel would advance their cause.
President of DDO
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/8/2009 10:34:16 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
-Because nobody watching this will take the commercial seriously and base what they know about Asians solely on this commercial and subsequently treat Asians in a negative way based on the stereotypes of this commercial
-Secondly--have you WATCHED Family Guy? There are racist jokes all over the place and many of them ARE geared toward black people. And when people laugh, it comes with the undertone that "it's soo true". That's the difference.
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/8/2009 10:44:01 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/10/2009 6:40:22 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 11/10/2009 5:52:55 PM, feverish wrote:
Do you think that the noodle advert is racist yourself or would that be hypersensitivity?

I don't find this commercial to be particularly bad, and it doesn't kick up a lot of dust. For some reason, there is a high tolerance for Asian stereotyping in the media, but a hypersensitivity to racism for other minorities elsewhere.


Asians also get the stereotype of being super intelligent. The reason black people get so offended is when do we ever get positive stereotypes? Everybody stereotypes, whether it's intentional or not. When black people get stereotyped negatively, it gets believed because we don't HAVE positive stereotypes to counteract them. When most people (at least where I'm from) think of a "Typical Asian", they don't think of the little cartoon man in that commercial, they think of a rich well-dressed Schulich School of Business attending genius. You could stereotype a white male in a TV show as being a thieving dictator but at the end of the day people will still look to him with respect. And on television alone, it is disgusting how little black people are viewed in a positive light. I can't remember the last time I watched a show about black people that was just about PEOPLE and had nothing to do with race. What happened to shows like the Cosby Show that just portrayed a FAMILY, and not a BLACK FAMILY with BLACK ISSUES. Why are so many black characters portrayed as cheaters or golddiggers or poor or ghetto or unintelligent or TOKEN?

/end rant
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/10/2009 8:40:34 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 12/8/2009 10:44:01 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:
At 11/10/2009 6:40:22 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 11/10/2009 5:52:55 PM, feverish wrote:
Do you think that the noodle advert is racist yourself or would that be hypersensitivity?

I don't find this commercial to be particularly bad, and it doesn't kick up a lot of dust. For some reason, there is a high tolerance for Asian stereotyping in the media, but a hypersensitivity to racism for other minorities elsewhere.



Asians also get the stereotype of being super intelligent. The reason black people get so offended is when do we ever get positive stereotypes? Everybody stereotypes, whether it's intentional or not. When black people get stereotyped negatively, it gets believed because we don't HAVE positive stereotypes to counteract them. When most people (at least where I'm from) think of a "Typical Asian", they don't think of the little cartoon man in that commercial, they think of a rich well-dressed Schulich School of Business attending genius. You could stereotype a white male in a TV show as being a thieving dictator but at the end of the day people will still look to him with respect. And on television alone, it is disgusting how little black people are viewed in a positive light. I can't remember the last time I watched a show about black people that was just about PEOPLE and had nothing to do with race. What happened to shows like the Cosby Show that just portrayed a FAMILY, and not a BLACK FAMILY with BLACK ISSUES. Why are so many black characters portrayed as cheaters or golddiggers or poor or ghetto or unintelligent or TOKEN?

/end rant

I realize that my personal experience is severely limited, and that my community is not necessarily representative of many other places, but I don't know one white person who watches stereotypically black people sitcoms, and I don't find them funny.

The only such program I watch with a TOKEN is southpark, and he seems one of balanced characters on the show.
(except for the comedy talk shows, like the daily show/ conan &the like which are quite unapologetic in presenting "Tokens")

From my severely limited perspective, I think those shows are predominantly geared towards a black audience.
This may encourage,/ be a part of, a circular process of cultural reinforcement, which is, in my opinion, a big issue in itself.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/11/2009 4:27:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/10/2009 8:40:34 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
From my severely limited perspective, I think those shows are predominantly geared towards a black audience.
This may encourage,/ be a part of, a circular process of cultural reinforcement, which is, in my opinion, a big issue in itself.

I present to you Philippe Dauman, the owner of Viacom (as far as I know), the company that runs BET.

http://www.adweek.com...

And it's not just shows geared toward black people. It's everything. I know it's a joke now, but why exactly is it that the black person always gets killed first in horror movies? I watched One Missed Call in theatres and rolled my eyes severely when Meagan Good died before the opening credits, like come on. How about the new 90210, the one black character is an adopted kid from the ghetto with a poor family who never knew when their next meal was going to be, oh yes of course and how could I forget Gossip Girl, a show that takes place in NYC, supposedly one of the most multicultural cities in the U.S. and there has yet to be a black person with any significant lines... Or hmm how about Friends, one of the most popular shows of all time, also taking place in NYC and took only about 8 seasons to feature their first black character.

Or why don't we take a look at TMZ or any of those gossip shows, why is it that there are black artists and actors that barely (and in most cases, never) get any screen time unless they're having some sort of embarrassing drama, but there's pictures everywhere of these random white girls in Uggs who actually have no talent but for some reason everybody knows their names?

Why is it that when the police are looking for someone it's "A black man with black hair and a hoodie" but when it's a white person the race tends to be omitted "A man with green eyes are dark brown hair" why is it that black people are always described in terms of their race? Harry Potter is one of my favourite books but why is it that it is never mentioned when characters are white, it is described in detailed their eyes and hair and facial features... but Kingsley Shacklebolt is "bald and black" and Angelina Johnson is "a black girl with braids" why does race always have to define the course of our identity? As though "White" is the default colour and anyone other is a deviation.

Don't let me even get started on Disney. Yes, everybody gets stereotyped negatively, I'd be a fool to argue otherwise. But it becomes offensive when people have become so desensitized to this negative stereotype that it becomes MY identity. When people think, because I am black, I have so-and-so list of qualities.

Similarly, if you were to watch a commercial where WOMEN constantly beat out MEN in a football game, nobody would complain. Other way around, and feminists are protesting. This is because nobody in real life would base everything they know about men off this one commercial. That is why black people jump at the chance to defend themselves.

I could go on and on and on about the portrayal (or lack thereof) of black people on television and in the media. But I realize when I get passionate about something I will talk a lot. Aaaand I'd love to proofread things but I've got an essay that requires my time more.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/11/2009 5:01:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
You're right. I never should have tried to defend contemporary T.V.

I really should have known better. It's pretty much all absurd, and you're right, encourages all kinds of stupid stuff, including racism.

They like to tell engaging stories and will do anything to do so.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/11/2009 5:05:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/11/2009 4:27:00 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:

Why is it that when the police are looking for someone it's "A black man with black hair and a hoodie" but when it's a white person the race tends to be omitted "A man with green eyes are dark brown hair" why is it that black people are always described in terms of their race?

So are asians and indians and spanish people, when white people make up something like 75% of the population (of US) I can kind of understand how it would be the default, especially as Brown hair, blond hair, almost always means "white" too.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/11/2009 11:44:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/11/2009 5:05:02 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 12/11/2009 4:27:00 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:

Why is it that when the police are looking for someone it's "A black man with black hair and a hoodie" but when it's a white person the race tends to be omitted "A man with green eyes are dark brown hair" why is it that black people are always described in terms of their race?

So are asians and indians and spanish people, when white people make up something like 75% of the population (of US) I can kind of understand how it would be the default, especially as Brown hair, blond hair, almost always means "white" too.

Considering brunettes make up the highest population of hair colour in the world, anyone could have brown hair. My friend is 100% African, born there, both parents born there and she has a lighter shade of brown hair and hazel/green eyes. Another friend I know is 100% Ghanian, same deal, he's very darkskinned, and he also has green eyes. I know many mixed race people with brown, blond, or even reddish natural hair, and a whole assortment of eye colours. Many Indians have brown or reddish hair and green or blue eyes. That's not even including the number of non-whites who dye their hair brown, blond, reddish, etc. So no, "Brown hair and green eyes" or whatever is not characteristic of white people alone, and the white race is not a "Default" colour. If a criminal police are looking for is white, then they should say so along with a full description, just as they do with any other race. It's really not that hard. One extra word does not take that much effort to say, especially when repeatedly done, it conditions a whole continent to believe certain races are more criminal than others.
johngriswald
Posts: 1,294
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/11/2009 11:52:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/10/2009 4:37:43 PM, Kleptin wrote:


Cartoonized stereotype Asian talking about noodles.

This of course, is absolutely fine.

However, if someone makes an advertisement showing a cartoon black guy hocking microwaveable fried chicken, suddenly, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are up in arms, and the company will be expected to make some sort of public apology.

Why, DDO? Why?

The blacks did not invent chicken, the Asians did invent chow mein. It would be like of being racist towards Italians because they feature Italians with Pizza.
Having problems with the fans site? Suggestions? Can't log in? Forgot your password? Want to be an editor and write opinion pieces? PM Me and I'll get it sorted out.

ddofans.com