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Is "ballsy" a sexist term?

1Devilsadvocate
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3/29/2013 3:37:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Everyone seems to use it, why is it not considered sexist?
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Misterscruffles
Posts: 27
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3/29/2013 4:59:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I would argue that the context of a word or phrase is important in determining sexism, an the term is neither sexist nor not sexist without context.
Niao! =^.^=
royalpaladin
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3/29/2013 5:59:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 3:37:44 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Everyone seems to use it,
I don't.
why is it not considered sexist?
It is sexist. It equates courage with maleness.
Maikuru
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3/29/2013 6:16:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Given enough time, this site really gets to every possible topic lol.

It's sexist insofar as it is generally only used to describe males, but I'm guessing that's because it has origins related to varying testosterone levels. It's not sexist in any derogatory or discriminatory sense, at least not any more than terms like "gorgeous" or "sensual," which are generally used to describe females.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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tmar19652
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3/29/2013 6:39:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 3:37:44 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Everyone seems to use it, why is it not considered sexist?

I don't see it as sexist. You could call a woman ballsy, but that might make the situation weird.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
Maikuru
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3/29/2013 6:40:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 6:39:02 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 3/29/2013 3:37:44 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Everyone seems to use it, why is it not considered sexist?

I don't see it as sexist. You could call a woman ballsy, but that might make the situation weird.

That takes some cojones.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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tmar19652
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3/29/2013 6:58:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 6:40:13 AM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/29/2013 6:39:02 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 3/29/2013 3:37:44 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Everyone seems to use it, why is it not considered sexist?

I don't see it as sexist. You could call a woman ballsy, but that might make the situation weird.

That takes some cojones.

And then you lose those cojones when she knees you .
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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3/29/2013 10:50:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 5:59:38 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 3/29/2013 3:37:44 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Everyone seems to use it,
I don't.
why is it not considered sexist?
It is sexist. It equates courage with maleness.

It doesn't equate anything with anything. It is used to indicate courageousness. That is all. It does not refer to anything else.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Maikuru
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3/29/2013 11:34:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I retract my previous statements. My position on this issue has changed. The term is sexist and while I don't believe it is malicious or offensive, I do view it as yet another example of the societal "boy's club" manifesting itself into common vernacular.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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dylancatlow
Posts: 12,242
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3/29/2013 11:41:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The reason 'ballsy' is not sexist in my eyes is that its meaning is not "Oh, he is a male, therefore, he is brave.' It's literally just translated into 'He or she is brave.'
dylancatlow
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3/29/2013 11:41:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 11:41:13 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
The reason 'ballsy' is not sexist in my eyes is that its meaning is not "Oh, he is a male, therefore, he is brave.' It's literally just translated into 'He or she is brave.'

Essentially, the term itself does not mean anything sexist, but it took some sexism to get that term to mean 'brave.'
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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3/29/2013 11:43:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
i don't really see it as sexist. i mean you would then have to put in a whole crap ton of other words that weren't seen as sexist. its really not a big deal.
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
bossyburrito
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3/29/2013 11:49:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 11:34:50 AM, Maikuru wrote:
I retract my previous statements. My position on this issue has changed. The term is sexist and while I don't believe it is malicious or offensive, I do view it as yet another example of the societal "boy's club" manifesting itself into common vernacular.

Rabbit apple key?

If rabbit apple key does not refer to the common definitions of rabbit, apple, and key, all baggage that those definitions imply should be disregarded.

If:
Rabbit:How
Apple:Are
Key:You

Then rabbit apple key? = how are you?

Rabbit, when used in this context, does not refer to the animal. Apple does not refer to the fruit. Key does not refer to the item that unlocks something. The alternative definitions of the words are completely irrelevant.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,242
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3/29/2013 11:50:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 11:49:27 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 3/29/2013 11:34:50 AM, Maikuru wrote:
I retract my previous statements. My position on this issue has changed. The term is sexist and while I don't believe it is malicious or offensive, I do view it as yet another example of the societal "boy's club" manifesting itself into common vernacular.

Rabbit apple key?

If rabbit apple key does not refer to the common definitions of rabbit, apple, and key, all baggage that those definitions imply should be disregarded.

If:
Rabbit:How
Apple:Are
Key:You

Then rabbit apple key? = how are you?

Rabbit, when used in this context, does not refer to the animal. Apple does not refer to the fruit. Key does not refer to the item that unlocks something. The alternative definitions of the words are completely irrelevant.

Exactly.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/29/2013 11:57:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 5:59:38 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 3/29/2013 3:37:44 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Everyone seems to use it,
I don't.
why is it not considered sexist?
It is sexist. It equates courage with maleness.

No, it equates courage, with the possession of an organ which produces large amounts of testosterone, a hormone which has been shown to increase courage. Its not about being male, its about be courageous. It doesn't matter whether they're a woman, or a man, it simply refers to those who are courageous. Though I would be willing to concede its origins are likely very sexist.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
RoyLatham
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3/29/2013 11:58:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Are the pronouns "he" and "she" sexist? Why should anyone care?

Anyway, dictionary.com gives:

balls"y
[bawl-zee] Show IPA
adjective, balls"i"er, balls"i"est. Slang: Usually Vulgar.
boldly aggressive or courageous: a ballsy gal who isn't afraid of anyone.

So, no, the term is used to convey the idea of something aggressive usually associated with male behavior, but applicable to either gender.

Is there a slang expression for behavior typified as female that is applied to males? Words, like "effete" seem to only apply negatively to males; women seem to me to be rarely characterized as "effete."

William Buckley said the way to tell a Liberal is that they throw a baseball like a girl.
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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3/29/2013 12:01:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 11:49:27 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 3/29/2013 11:34:50 AM, Maikuru wrote:
I retract my previous statements. My position on this issue has changed. The term is sexist and while I don't believe it is malicious or offensive, I do view it as yet another example of the societal "boy's club" manifesting itself into common vernacular.

Rabbit apple key?

If rabbit apple key does not refer to the common definitions of rabbit, apple, and key, all baggage that those definitions imply should be disregarded.

So then you'd agree that if a word's usage does refer to its meaning, that meaning should be considered? Excellent, we're on the same page, as the connection between ballsy and it's origins couldn't be more clear and direct. This thread wouldn't exist if that weren't the case; there's a reason we're not discussing whether or not poppycock is sexist lol.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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Maikuru
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3/29/2013 12:06:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 11:57:50 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/29/2013 5:59:38 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 3/29/2013 3:37:44 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Everyone seems to use it,
I don't.
why is it not considered sexist?
It is sexist. It equates courage with maleness.

No, it equates courage, with the possession of an organ which produces large amounts of testosterone, a hormone which has been shown to increase courage. Its not about being male, its about be courageous. It doesn't matter whether they're a woman, or a man, it simply refers to those who are courageous. Though I would be willing to concede its origins are likely very sexist.

My initial reaction exactly, till I realized the obtuseness of identifying the term with the organ rather than the hormone it produces. By doing so, the term is immediately sexualized and inherently sexist.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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Cermank
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3/29/2013 12:08:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 11:58:10 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
Are the pronouns "he" and "she" sexist? Why should anyone care?

Anyway, dictionary.com gives:

balls"y
[bawl-zee] Show IPA
adjective, balls"i"er, balls"i"est. Slang: Usually Vulgar.
boldly aggressive or courageous: a ballsy gal who isn't afraid of anyone.

So, no, the term is used to convey the idea of something aggressive usually associated with male behavior, but applicable to either gender.

Is there a slang expression for behavior typified as female that is applied to males? Words, like "effete" seem to only apply negatively to males; women seem to me to be rarely characterized as "effete."

William Buckley said the way to tell a Liberal is that they throw a baseball like a girl.

The fact that they are applicable to anyone doesn't mean that it is not sexist. The word is derived from 'balls'. The courage/ aggression is associated with that specific part of male genetelia, typically used to describe manliness. The implication is clear. Even of you are using it to describe a female, you are implying that the girl is courageous 'like a man'.

It is sexist.
dylancatlow
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3/29/2013 12:09:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 12:08:01 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 3/29/2013 11:58:10 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
Are the pronouns "he" and "she" sexist? Why should anyone care?

Anyway, dictionary.com gives:

balls"y
[bawl-zee] Show IPA
adjective, balls"i"er, balls"i"est. Slang: Usually Vulgar.
boldly aggressive or courageous: a ballsy gal who isn't afraid of anyone.

So, no, the term is used to convey the idea of something aggressive usually associated with male behavior, but applicable to either gender.

Is there a slang expression for behavior typified as female that is applied to males? Words, like "effete" seem to only apply negatively to males; women seem to me to be rarely characterized as "effete."

William Buckley said the way to tell a Liberal is that they throw a baseball like a girl.

The fact that they are applicable to anyone doesn't mean that it is not sexist. The word is derived from 'balls'. The courage/ aggression is associated with that specific part of male genetelia, typically used to describe manliness. The implication is clear. Even of you are using it to describe a female, you are implying that the girl is courageous 'like a man'.

It is sexist.

The term is not sexist, the origin of the term is.
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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3/29/2013 12:10:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
this topic isn't worth anything
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Maikuru
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3/29/2013 12:11:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Roy is correct insofar are "feminine" words attributed to males imply negativity. Similarly, as in the case of ballsy, a "masculine" word is seen as a positive for women. This sexualization and gender preference is rampant in in our language and made only more apparent in this case, as a female called ballsy is being view as more male-like.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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RyuuKyuzo
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3/29/2013 12:15:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 3:37:44 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Everyone seems to use it, why is it not considered sexist?

I'd like to think it's because most people still have at least one problem more pressing than this, but I'm sure if you looked hard enough you'd find someone who complains about it.
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
Cermank
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3/29/2013 12:17:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 12:09:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/29/2013 12:08:01 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 3/29/2013 11:58:10 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
Are the pronouns "he" and "she" sexist? Why should anyone care?

Anyway, dictionary.com gives:

balls"y
[bawl-zee] Show IPA
adjective, balls"i"er, balls"i"est. Slang: Usually Vulgar.
boldly aggressive or courageous: a ballsy gal who isn't afraid of anyone.

So, no, the term is used to convey the idea of something aggressive usually associated with male behavior, but applicable to either gender.

Is there a slang expression for behavior typified as female that is applied to males? Words, like "effete" seem to only apply negatively to males; women seem to me to be rarely characterized as "effete."

William Buckley said the way to tell a Liberal is that they throw a baseball like a girl.

The fact that they are applicable to anyone doesn't mean that it is not sexist. The word is derived from 'balls'. The courage/ aggression is associated with that specific part of male genetelia, typically used to describe manliness. The implication is clear. Even of you are using it to describe a female, you are implying that the girl is courageous 'like a man'.

It is sexist.

The term is not sexist, the origin of the term is.

The distinction being? The implication is still the same.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,242
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3/29/2013 12:21:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 12:17:15 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 3/29/2013 12:09:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/29/2013 12:08:01 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 3/29/2013 11:58:10 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
Are the pronouns "he" and "she" sexist? Why should anyone care?

Anyway, dictionary.com gives:

balls"y
[bawl-zee] Show IPA
adjective, balls"i"er, balls"i"est. Slang: Usually Vulgar.
boldly aggressive or courageous: a ballsy gal who isn't afraid of anyone.

So, no, the term is used to convey the idea of something aggressive usually associated with male behavior, but applicable to either gender.

Is there a slang expression for behavior typified as female that is applied to males? Words, like "effete" seem to only apply negatively to males; women seem to me to be rarely characterized as "effete."

William Buckley said the way to tell a Liberal is that they throw a baseball like a girl.

The fact that they are applicable to anyone doesn't mean that it is not sexist. The word is derived from 'balls'. The courage/ aggression is associated with that specific part of male genetelia, typically used to describe manliness. The implication is clear. Even of you are using it to describe a female, you are implying that the girl is courageous 'like a man'.

It is sexist.

The term is not sexist, the origin of the term is.


The distinction being? The implication is still the same.

Not really. For instance, say we have an English word that means "brave" derived from the French word for "man." Would you consider that term sexist? If so, the term 'sexist' isn't a very powerful word.
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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3/29/2013 12:35:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 12:21:20 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/29/2013 12:17:15 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 3/29/2013 12:09:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/29/2013 12:08:01 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 3/29/2013 11:58:10 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
Are the pronouns "he" and "she" sexist? Why should anyone care?

Anyway, dictionary.com gives:

balls"y
[bawl-zee] Show IPA
adjective, balls"i"er, balls"i"est. Slang: Usually Vulgar.
boldly aggressive or courageous: a ballsy gal who isn't afraid of anyone.

So, no, the term is used to convey the idea of something aggressive usually associated with male behavior, but applicable to either gender.

Is there a slang expression for behavior typified as female that is applied to males? Words, like "effete" seem to only apply negatively to males; women seem to me to be rarely characterized as "effete."

William Buckley said the way to tell a Liberal is that they throw a baseball like a girl.

The fact that they are applicable to anyone doesn't mean that it is not sexist. The word is derived from 'balls'. The courage/ aggression is associated with that specific part of male genetelia, typically used to describe manliness. The implication is clear. Even of you are using it to describe a female, you are implying that the girl is courageous 'like a man'.

It is sexist.

The term is not sexist, the origin of the term is.


The distinction being? The implication is still the same.

Not really. For instance, say we have an English word that means "brave" derived from the French word for "man." Would you consider that term sexist? If so, the term 'sexist' isn't a very powerful word.

Actually I would. But then, here's something I realised. Words have power as long as we let them. People can use the term 'nigger' effimately, so something as harmless as ballsy isn't inherently sexist. In fact,nothing would be *Inherently anything. It all depends on the context and the way the term is being used.

*mild eureka moment*
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,242
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3/29/2013 12:39:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 12:35:46 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 3/29/2013 12:21:20 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/29/2013 12:17:15 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 3/29/2013 12:09:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/29/2013 12:08:01 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 3/29/2013 11:58:10 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
Are the pronouns "he" and "she" sexist? Why should anyone care?

Anyway, dictionary.com gives:

balls"y
[bawl-zee] Show IPA
adjective, balls"i"er, balls"i"est. Slang: Usually Vulgar.
boldly aggressive or courageous: a ballsy gal who isn't afraid of anyone.

So, no, the term is used to convey the idea of something aggressive usually associated with male behavior, but applicable to either gender.

Is there a slang expression for behavior typified as female that is applied to males? Words, like "effete" seem to only apply negatively to males; women seem to me to be rarely characterized as "effete."

William Buckley said the way to tell a Liberal is that they throw a baseball like a girl.

The fact that they are applicable to anyone doesn't mean that it is not sexist. The word is derived from 'balls'. The courage/ aggression is associated with that specific part of male genetelia, typically used to describe manliness. The implication is clear. Even of you are using it to describe a female, you are implying that the girl is courageous 'like a man'.

It is sexist.

The term is not sexist, the origin of the term is.


The distinction being? The implication is still the same.

Not really. For instance, say we have an English word that means "brave" derived from the French word for "man." Would you consider that term sexist? If so, the term 'sexist' isn't a very powerful word.

Actually I would. But then, here's something I realised. Words have power as long as we let them. People can use the term 'nigger' effimately, so something as harmless as ballsy isn't inherently sexist. In fact,nothing would be *Inherently anything. It all depends on the context and the way the term is being used.

*mild eureka moment*

I agree with the fact that words are not intrinsically anything.

Follow up question: would you advocate that we stop using that word (the one derived from the French word)?
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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3/29/2013 12:39:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 12:35:46 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 3/29/2013 12:21:20 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/29/2013 12:17:15 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 3/29/2013 12:09:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/29/2013 12:08:01 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 3/29/2013 11:58:10 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
Are the pronouns "he" and "she" sexist? Why should anyone care?

Anyway, dictionary.com gives:

balls"y
[bawl-zee] Show IPA
adjective, balls"i"er, balls"i"est. Slang: Usually Vulgar.
boldly aggressive or courageous: a ballsy gal who isn't afraid of anyone.

So, no, the term is used to convey the idea of something aggressive usually associated with male behavior, but applicable to either gender.

Is there a slang expression for behavior typified as female that is applied to males? Words, like "effete" seem to only apply negatively to males; women seem to me to be rarely characterized as "effete."

William Buckley said the way to tell a Liberal is that they throw a baseball like a girl.

The fact that they are applicable to anyone doesn't mean that it is not sexist. The word is derived from 'balls'. The courage/ aggression is associated with that specific part of male genetelia, typically used to describe manliness. The implication is clear. Even of you are using it to describe a female, you are implying that the girl is courageous 'like a man'.

It is sexist.

The term is not sexist, the origin of the term is.


The distinction being? The implication is still the same.

Not really. For instance, say we have an English word that means "brave" derived from the French word for "man." Would you consider that term sexist? If so, the term 'sexist' isn't a very powerful word.

Actually I would. But then, here's something I realised. Words have power as long as we let them. People can use the term 'nigger' effimately, so something as harmless as ballsy isn't inherently sexist. In fact,nothing would be *Inherently anything. It all depends on the context and the way the term is being used.

*mild eureka moment*

the word isn't that big of a deal
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.