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A different take on the Abortion Debate...

APB
Posts: 267
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4/13/2013 7:45:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Let's suppose I've invented a new drug...

Name: Maternal Affection Booster (MAB).
Appearance: 1 white, medium-sized tablet, in a pack of 12.
Take: Every 12 hours until the pack is gone.
Effect: Releases hormones in the brain that make you love your unborn baby.
Side Effects: May cause spontaneous tears of joy, lactation and an irresistable urge to hug random children. No effects on foetus. Keep out of reach of children and animals. Not intended for male use. Consult your doctor first if taking other medication.
Success Rate: 99%.

If you have an unwanted pregnancy and take MAB, it will make you fall in love with your baby within a week (you should still take all 12 tablets). The drug has been rigorously tested and found to have no side effects aside from the ones listed, and is not toxic to the environment or anybody the patient comes into contact with.

Is this more or less ethical than abortion? Would MAB have a positive or negative effect on society? Would you use it if you had an unwanted pregnancy (to make you want the pregnancy)? How should it be distributed? With 99% of unwanted pregnancies remedied, should abortion still be legal (in cases where the mother's life isn't at risk)?
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,731
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4/13/2013 9:27:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If all your assumptions are taken at face-value then sure, abortion could be reevaluated, but personally I don't like the concept of making things illegal in the first place so I wouldn't really give a isht about some drug that came out.

My main comment is that your assumptions have issues, because such a sophisticated drug surely isn't going to be without some possible detriment to the person taking it. And I don't think that side effects and toxicity are the only ethical concerns surrounding the production and distribution of said drug.
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drhead
Posts: 1,475
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4/13/2013 11:36:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/13/2013 7:45:37 PM, APB wrote:
Let's suppose I've invented a new drug...

Name: Maternal Affection Booster (MAB).
Appearance: 1 white, medium-sized tablet, in a pack of 12.
Take: Every 12 hours until the pack is gone.
Effect: Releases hormones in the brain that make you love your fetus.
fixed
Side Effects: May cause spontaneous tears of joy, lactation and an irresistable urge to hug random children. No effects on foetus. Keep out of reach of children and animals. Not intended for male use. Consult your doctor first if taking other medication.
Success Rate: 99%.

If you have an unwanted pregnancy and take MAB, it will make you fall in love with your fetus
fixed
within a week (you should still take all 12 tablets). The drug has been rigorously tested and found to have no side effects aside from the ones listed, and is not toxic to the environment or anybody the patient comes into contact with.

Is this more or less ethical than abortion? Would MAB have a positive or negative effect on society? Would you use it if you had an unwanted pregnancy (to make you want the pregnancy)? How should it be distributed? With 99% of unwanted pregnancies remedied, should abortion still be legal (in cases where the mother's life isn't at risk)?

This completely ignores the fact that a large amount of abortions are performed due to economic situations, as well as possible relationship problems. That drug would essentially cause the baby to be born into a bad situation. People don't just have abortions just for the hell of it, you know.
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Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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4/14/2013 1:06:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
why would it be unethical? I think its a great idea. The protective maternal instinct is natural anyways, overidden by the mothers hatred of the child and its conception.
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APB
Posts: 267
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4/14/2013 1:57:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
@ R0b1Billion

No such drug exists, I merely invented it to create a thought experiment. Obviously any real version of it would be different.

What other ethical concerns are there?

@ drhead

Though one could argue that being born into a bad situation is better than not being born, it would be more relevant to point out that the drug could and probably should be optional. If a woman takes the drug of her own free will, she accepts the economic and relationship burden.

@ Smithereens

Some people would argue that it's a form of mind control.
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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4/14/2013 2:12:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 1:57:36 AM, APB wrote:
@ drhead

Though one could argue that being born into a bad situation is better than not being born, it would be more relevant to point out that the drug could and probably should be optional. If a woman takes the drug of her own free will, she accepts the economic and relationship burden.

Then in this case, abortion should be completely legal. Without that, you're giving the choice of blissful ignorance of a problem or dealing with a problem that you can do nothing about. With abortions legal, there is actually a solution.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
APB
Posts: 267
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4/14/2013 2:36:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 2:12:31 AM, drhead wrote:
At 4/14/2013 1:57:36 AM, APB wrote:
@ drhead

Though one could argue that being born into a bad situation is better than not being born, it would be more relevant to point out that the drug could and probably should be optional. If a woman takes the drug of her own free will, she accepts the economic and relationship burden.

Then in this case, abortion should be completely legal. Without that, you're giving the choice of blissful ignorance of a problem or dealing with a problem that you can do nothing about. With abortions legal, there is actually a solution.

Adoption is also a solution, and a far better one that needs to be used more regardless.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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4/14/2013 2:52:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 1:06:43 AM, Smithereens wrote:
why would it be unethical? I think its a great idea. The protective maternal instinct is natural anyways, overidden by the mothers hatred of the child and its conception.

That is a really uneducated remark. Women who get abortions, do not do it because they 'hate the child'. They do it because allowing the child to be born would have negative effects they can't deal with. In some cases, those negatives range from extreme poverty, to death. And even if you're argument were completely accurate, it doesn't change the fact that this drug is literally mind control.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
APB
Posts: 267
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4/14/2013 3:13:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 2:52:25 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 4/14/2013 1:06:43 AM, Smithereens wrote:
why would it be unethical? I think its a great idea. The protective maternal instinct is natural anyways, overidden by the mothers hatred of the child and its conception.

That is a really uneducated remark. Women who get abortions, do not do it because they 'hate the child'. They do it because allowing the child to be born would have negative effects they can't deal with. In some cases, those negatives range from extreme poverty, to death. And even if you're argument were completely accurate, it doesn't change the fact that this drug is literally mind control.

@ Smithereens

See what I mean?

@ muzebreak

If MAB is mind control, then so are all anti-depressants. So are hormone patches. So are anti-hallucinogenic drugs. They all work in a similar way to modify behaviour.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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4/14/2013 3:30:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 3:13:02 AM, APB wrote:
At 4/14/2013 2:52:25 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 4/14/2013 1:06:43 AM, Smithereens wrote:
why would it be unethical? I think its a great idea. The protective maternal instinct is natural anyways, overidden by the mothers hatred of the child and its conception.

That is a really uneducated remark. Women who get abortions, do not do it because they 'hate the child'. They do it because allowing the child to be born would have negative effects they can't deal with. In some cases, those negatives range from extreme poverty, to death. And even if you're argument were completely accurate, it doesn't change the fact that this drug is literally mind control.

@ Smithereens

See what I mean?

@ muzebreak

If MAB is mind control, then so are all anti-depressants. So are hormone patches. So are anti-hallucinogenic drugs. They all work in a similar way to modify behaviour.

Well, first off I have no fvcking clue what hormone patches you are talking about, or what anti hallucinogenic drugs are. But no, anti-depresseants are not mind control. They are mood control.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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4/14/2013 3:36:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 3:30:11 AM, muzebreak wrote:
I have no fvcking clue what anti hallucinogenic drugs are.

This: http://youtu.be...
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APB
Posts: 267
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4/14/2013 3:38:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 3:30:11 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 4/14/2013 3:13:02 AM, APB wrote:
At 4/14/2013 2:52:25 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 4/14/2013 1:06:43 AM, Smithereens wrote:
why would it be unethical? I think its a great idea. The protective maternal instinct is natural anyways, overidden by the mothers hatred of the child and its conception.

That is a really uneducated remark. Women who get abortions, do not do it because they 'hate the child'. They do it because allowing the child to be born would have negative effects they can't deal with. In some cases, those negatives range from extreme poverty, to death. And even if you're argument were completely accurate, it doesn't change the fact that this drug is literally mind control.

@ Smithereens

See what I mean?

@ muzebreak

If MAB is mind control, then so are all anti-depressants. So are hormone patches. So are anti-hallucinogenic drugs. They all work in a similar way to modify behaviour.

Well, first off I have no fvcking clue what hormone patches you are talking about, or what anti hallucinogenic drugs are. But no, anti-depresseants are not mind control. They are mood control.

MAB just causes gooey feelings towards the thing in your uterus. It won't actually make your mind up, you do that yourself as a matter of course. Anybody adamantly opposed to having the kid would remain that way, although they might feel worse about terminating.
APB
Posts: 267
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4/14/2013 3:39:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/14/2013 3:36:33 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 4/14/2013 3:30:11 AM, muzebreak wrote:
I have no fvcking clue what anti hallucinogenic drugs are.


This: http://youtu.be...

They stop you from hallucinating. You give them to crazy people. I don't know if that's what they're actually called, I was just describing the effects. I may be misinformed, as my understanding of pharmacology is limited.