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Hypothetical

muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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4/21/2013 2:13:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'v been reading up on Anonymous and Lulzsec lately. This has lead me to the conclusion that I would enjoy starting a Hacktivist group. The interesting thing, is that I was unable to come up with a target.

So, as the title states, here is a hypothetical question for all of you; who would you target, if you were in my position?

And for all of your peace of minds, if you believe I am actually planning on starting such a group or campaign; I am not at the moment. I don't have the skill, technology, or time.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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4/21/2013 2:21:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It's important to remember that the reason Anonymous works is not that it is well-structured, but in fact the exact opposite: there is no solid hierarchy which can be wiped out in order to collapse the entire group.

It is better when coordination of events is done by spreading certain ideologically-based policies.

For instance, if all the forums that Anonymous members visit buzz about how evil the FBI is and such and such, they're more likely to turn their attention to that target. Coordination is largely ground up and usually event-specific.

There's nobody dishing out orders like "Denial of service attack here! Trojan there!" At least not on any level above local cells (local in terms of social networks not spatially).
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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4/21/2013 2:53:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It's too bad nobody has the time for it, it would be really cool if millions of Americans all started learning hax techniques and just attacked the sh!t out of everything. I would probably start with insurance companies and banks... financial institutions in general. IRS, DEA, and any justice-based institutions would also be high on my list.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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4/21/2013 3:16:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 2:13:54 PM, muzebreak wrote:
I'v been reading up on Anonymous and Lulzsec lately. This has lead me to the conclusion that I would enjoy starting a Hacktivist group. The interesting thing, is that I was unable to come up with a target.

So, as the title states, here is a hypothetical question for all of you; who would you target, if you were in my position?

And for all of your peace of minds, if you believe I am actually planning on starting such a group or campaign; I am not at the moment. I don't have the skill, technology, or time.

Wellllll, given this post, I'd say you're off to a bad start. :P
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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4/21/2013 3:18:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 2:53:05 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
It's too bad nobody has the time for it, it would be really cool if millions of Americans all started learning hax techniques and just attacked the sh!t out of everything. I would probably start with insurance companies and banks... financial institutions in general. IRS, DEA, and any justice-based institutions would also be high on my list.

The collapse of such organizations through the cooperation of any meaningful number of people wouldn't require such a roundabout approach. Mere lack of participation would do just fine.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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4/21/2013 6:15:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 2:53:05 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
It's too bad nobody has the time for it, it would be really cool if millions of Americans all started learning hax techniques and just attacked the sh!t out of everything. I would probably start with insurance companies and banks... financial institutions in general. IRS, DEA, and any justice-based institutions would also be high on my list.

All you need to know, if you don't care about getting caught, is how to use the program 'Slowloris'. It's like the LOIC that Anonymous use, but it works much more efficiently. Its a kinda 'point and click' type thing. All you do is input the IP address, click the start button, and the site of your choosing will go down, as long as the servers aren't built to handle millions of requests a minute, like facebook or google.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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4/21/2013 6:16:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 4:51:38 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
I'd go after the real criminals. Other hackers.

Then you would quickly find yourself in a bad way.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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4/21/2013 6:18:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 3:16:44 PM, Ren wrote:
At 4/21/2013 2:13:54 PM, muzebreak wrote:
I'v been reading up on Anonymous and Lulzsec lately. This has lead me to the conclusion that I would enjoy starting a Hacktivist group. The interesting thing, is that I was unable to come up with a target.

So, as the title states, here is a hypothetical question for all of you; who would you target, if you were in my position?

And for all of your peace of minds, if you believe I am actually planning on starting such a group or campaign; I am not at the moment. I don't have the skill, technology, or time.

Wellllll, given this post, I'd say you're off to a bad start. :P

Yeah. I sat there just thinking 'who really deserves this?'. I couldn't really think of any specific companies that I had a hatred for, that hadn't already been attacked. And I don't want to be unoriginal. If I do something like this, I want it to be reasoned, warranted, and big.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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4/21/2013 6:23:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 2:21:12 PM, Wnope wrote:
It's important to remember that the reason Anonymous works is not that it is well-structured, but in fact the exact opposite: there is no solid hierarchy which can be wiped out in order to collapse the entire group.

It is better when coordination of events is done by spreading certain ideologically-based policies.

For instance, if all the forums that Anonymous members visit buzz about how evil the FBI is and such and such, they're more likely to turn their attention to that target. Coordination is largely ground up and usually event-specific.

There's nobody dishing out orders like "Denial of service attack here! Trojan there!" At least not on any level above local cells (local in terms of social networks not spatially).

There is this girl who is an anonymous member, can't remember her handle, but she likened it to a bird swarm. Hundreds will fly around. Then, all of a sudden, one breaks off and some might follow, all might follow, or none might, but following or not is your choice, no one will force you.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
YYW
Posts: 36,335
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4/21/2013 9:17:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 2:13:54 PM, muzebreak wrote:
I'v been reading up on Anonymous and Lulzsec lately. This has lead me to the conclusion that I would enjoy starting a Hacktivist group. The interesting thing, is that I was unable to come up with a target.

So, as the title states, here is a hypothetical question for all of you; who would you target, if you were in my position?

And for all of your peace of minds, if you believe I am actually planning on starting such a group or campaign; I am not at the moment. I don't have the skill, technology, or time.

I would like to see them target North Korea (which they have), Chechen Separatist groups (or terrorists, generally), and do the sort of thing that the US government can't do. However, there is a fine line because vigilantism in any form is a morally dubious enterprise.
Tsar of DDO
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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4/21/2013 9:32:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 9:17:25 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/21/2013 2:13:54 PM, muzebreak wrote:
I'v been reading up on Anonymous and Lulzsec lately. This has lead me to the conclusion that I would enjoy starting a Hacktivist group. The interesting thing, is that I was unable to come up with a target.

So, as the title states, here is a hypothetical question for all of you; who would you target, if you were in my position?

And for all of your peace of minds, if you believe I am actually planning on starting such a group or campaign; I am not at the moment. I don't have the skill, technology, or time.

I would like to see them target North Korea (which they have), Chechen Separatist groups (or terrorists, generally), and do the sort of thing that the US government can't do. However, there is a fine line because vigilantism in any form is a morally dubious enterprise.

I'v never understood that, because all vigilantism is, is non-government-sanctioned policing. Being a vigilante is the same as being a police officer, except you don't have a government that says what you do is ok, so why is it morally dubious, or do you think a police force is also morally dubious?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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4/21/2013 9:55:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Police force is also morally unacceptable. I don't believe in an eye for an eye, so as much as I would fantasize about a Fight-Club sort of destruction of the things I hate, I know that the true path is through love, not war.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
YYW
Posts: 36,335
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4/21/2013 10:34:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 9:32:24 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 4/21/2013 9:17:25 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/21/2013 2:13:54 PM, muzebreak wrote:
I'v been reading up on Anonymous and Lulzsec lately. This has lead me to the conclusion that I would enjoy starting a Hacktivist group. The interesting thing, is that I was unable to come up with a target.

So, as the title states, here is a hypothetical question for all of you; who would you target, if you were in my position?

And for all of your peace of minds, if you believe I am actually planning on starting such a group or campaign; I am not at the moment. I don't have the skill, technology, or time.

I would like to see them target North Korea (which they have), Chechen Separatist groups (or terrorists, generally), and do the sort of thing that the US government can't do. However, there is a fine line because vigilantism in any form is a morally dubious enterprise.

I'v never understood that, because all vigilantism is, is non-government-sanctioned policing. Being a vigilante is the same as being a police officer, except you don't have a government that says what you do is ok, so why is it morally dubious, or do you think a police force is also morally dubious?

It's about the presence or absence of limits. There are limits to what the police can do to you, because their first responsibility is to protect the rights of citizens (even those who break the law). There are no limits, other than philosophical ones not codified into law, to what a vigilante can do.

But from a philosophical sense, the state enjoys a monopoly or near monopoly of force only because it's first obligation is to protect the rights of people. Where people enforce law (even if it is the state's law) they place themselves in a state of nature where might and force are the only guarantors of defense -which is problematic.
Tsar of DDO
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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4/22/2013 3:46:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 10:34:53 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/21/2013 9:32:24 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 4/21/2013 9:17:25 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/21/2013 2:13:54 PM, muzebreak wrote:
I'v been reading up on Anonymous and Lulzsec lately. This has lead me to the conclusion that I would enjoy starting a Hacktivist group. The interesting thing, is that I was unable to come up with a target.

So, as the title states, here is a hypothetical question for all of you; who would you target, if you were in my position?

And for all of your peace of minds, if you believe I am actually planning on starting such a group or campaign; I am not at the moment. I don't have the skill, technology, or time.

I would like to see them target North Korea (which they have), Chechen Separatist groups (or terrorists, generally), and do the sort of thing that the US government can't do. However, there is a fine line because vigilantism in any form is a morally dubious enterprise.

I'v never understood that, because all vigilantism is, is non-government-sanctioned policing. Being a vigilante is the same as being a police officer, except you don't have a government that says what you do is ok, so why is it morally dubious, or do you think a police force is also morally dubious?

It's about the presence or absence of limits. There are limits to what the police can do to you, because their first responsibility is to protect the rights of citizens (even those who break the law). There are no limits, other than philosophical ones not codified into law, to what a vigilante can do.

Why is having those limits 'codified into law' a more restricting factor? And wouldn't a vigilante have the same limits, albeit self imposed. That is what a vigilante is, someone who takes the law into their own hands. And it's not like we don't see rampant police corruption.


But from a philosophical sense, the state enjoys a monopoly or near monopoly of force only because it's first obligation is to protect the rights of people.

I don't know about all vigilantes, but I know that is exactly what the goal of anonymous is; to protect the rights of the people. Specifically, freedom of speech/expression/information/demonstration.

Where people enforce law (even if it is the state's law) they place themselves in a state of nature where might and force are the only guarantors of defense -which is problematic.

How is the state not doing the same thing? Albeit with a more mighty and forceful defence.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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4/22/2013 3:48:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 9:55:03 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
Police force is also morally unacceptable. I don't believe in an eye for an eye, so as much as I would fantasize about a Fight-Club sort of destruction of the things I hate, I know that the true path is through love, not war.

That is terribly naive....

So, do you suggest we allow people like Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, and Jeffrey Dalmer roam free to do as they please?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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4/22/2013 4:47:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The reason why hacktivist groups actually work very well is because all of them are driven by a common cause. Anonymous fights against internet censorship of any type. No hactivist group just does it for fun. If you have a big contentious issue, then you would be able to gather large amounts of supporters. Of those supporters, you are bound to find a few hackers.
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AlbinoBunny
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4/22/2013 6:03:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Possibly people who commit crimes against humanity.
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muzebreak
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4/22/2013 9:43:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/22/2013 4:47:14 AM, Smithereens wrote:
The reason why hacktivist groups actually work very well is because all of them are driven by a common cause. Anonymous fights against internet censorship of any type. No hactivist group just does it for fun. If you have a big contentious issue, then you would be able to gather large amounts of supporters. Of those supporters, you are bound to find a few hackers.

Lulzsec did.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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4/22/2013 10:01:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/22/2013 6:03:17 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
Possibly people who commit crimes against humanity.

That's an interesting notion, and one which I would definitely adhere to.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.