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Gangs are no different than terrorists

sadolite
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4/21/2013 5:25:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Their goal is to terrorise, strip other people of their freedom to move about, murder people at a wholesale level without regard to weather it is a man woman or child. They hold entire subdivision populations hostage and rule it with an iron fist or kill anyone who should try and challenge them.

Discuss
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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4/21/2013 5:32:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Gangs and terrorist are quite different. Terrorists use terror as a means to terror. For them, terror is the end. Gangs, however, use terror and violence to achieve a goal other than merely terror.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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4/21/2013 5:32:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 5:32:00 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Gangs and terrorist are quite different. Terrorists use terror as a means to terror. For them, terror is the end. Gangs, however, use terror and violence to achieve a goal other than merely terror.

Terrorists have a goal....
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dylancatlow
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4/21/2013 5:33:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 5:32:53 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/21/2013 5:32:00 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Gangs and terrorist are quite different. Terrorists use terror as a means to terror. For them, terror is the end. Gangs, however, use terror and violence to achieve a goal other than merely terror.

Terrorists have a goal....

To terrorize.
OberHerr
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4/21/2013 5:34:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 5:33:25 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 4/21/2013 5:32:53 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/21/2013 5:32:00 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Gangs and terrorist are quite different. Terrorists use terror as a means to terror. For them, terror is the end. Gangs, however, use terror and violence to achieve a goal other than merely terror.

Terrorists have a goal....

To terrorize.

No, they use terrorizing people as a means to their goal.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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4/21/2013 5:35:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 5:34:34 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/21/2013 5:33:25 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 4/21/2013 5:32:53 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 4/21/2013 5:32:00 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Gangs and terrorist are quite different. Terrorists use terror as a means to terror. For them, terror is the end. Gangs, however, use terror and violence to achieve a goal other than merely terror.

Terrorists have a goal....

To terrorize.

No, they use terrorizing people as a means to their goal.

Yes, but that goal is different than that of a gang that wouldn't be called 'terrorists.'
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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4/21/2013 5:51:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 5:25:02 PM, sadolite wrote:
Their goal is to terrorise, strip other people of their freedom to move about, murder people at a wholesale level without regard to weather it is a man woman or child. They hold entire subdivision populations hostage and rule it with an iron fist or kill anyone who should try and challenge them.

Discuss

There are many types of gangs. Some may resemble terrorist groups. Some arguably ARE extensions of terrorist groups (e.g. middle eastern militias that claim al qaeda affiliation). Some more closely resemble a corporation or nation (e.g. Gangster Disciples between 1980 and 2004). Some exist purely for profit and dislike violence for the attention it attracts (drug crews). Some will take over entire apartment buildings while others don't even have a real "turf" they claim. Others exist but their violence and crime is not directed towards any specific end but myopic hedonism.

But equating gangs with terrorists is like equating aggressive nations with terrorists.
APB
Posts: 267
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4/21/2013 6:00:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 5:25:02 PM, sadolite wrote:
Their goal is to terrorise, strip other people of their freedom to move about, murder people at a wholesale level without regard to weather it is a man woman or child. They hold entire subdivision populations hostage and rule it with an iron fist or kill anyone who should try and challenge them.

Discuss

Who cares? Let's slaughter them all before they do more nasty stuff.
Agent_Orange
Posts: 2,252
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4/21/2013 6:31:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 5:51:51 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 4/21/2013 5:25:02 PM, sadolite wrote:
Their goal is to terrorise, strip other people of their freedom to move about, murder people at a wholesale level without regard to weather it is a man woman or child. They hold entire subdivision populations hostage and rule it with an iron fist or kill anyone who should try and challenge them.

Discuss

There are many types of gangs. Some may resemble terrorist groups. Some arguably ARE extensions of terrorist groups (e.g. middle eastern militias that claim al qaeda affiliation). Some more closely resemble a corporation or nation (e.g. Gangster Disciples between 1980 and 2004). Some exist purely for profit and dislike violence for the attention it attracts (drug crews). Some will take over entire apartment buildings while others don't even have a real "turf" they claim. Others exist but their violence and crime is not directed towards any specific end but myopic hedonism.

But equating gangs with terrorists is like equating aggressive nations with terrorists.

So, so very true.
#BlackLivesMatter
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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4/21/2013 6:33:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 5:51:51 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 4/21/2013 5:25:02 PM, sadolite wrote:
Their goal is to terrorise, strip other people of their freedom to move about, murder people at a wholesale level without regard to weather it is a man woman or child. They hold entire subdivision populations hostage and rule it with an iron fist or kill anyone who should try and challenge them.

Discuss

There are many types of gangs. Some may resemble terrorist groups. Some arguably ARE extensions of terrorist groups (e.g. middle eastern militias that claim al qaeda affiliation). Some more closely resemble a corporation or nation (e.g. Gangster Disciples between 1980 and 2004). Some exist purely for profit and dislike violence for the attention it attracts (drug crews). Some will take over entire apartment buildings while others don't even have a real "turf" they claim. Others exist but their violence and crime is not directed towards any specific end but myopic hedonism.

But equating gangs with terrorists is like equating aggressive nations with terrorists.

^This.
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Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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4/21/2013 6:55:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 5:51:51 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 4/21/2013 5:25:02 PM, sadolite wrote:
Their goal is to terrorise, strip other people of their freedom to move about, murder people at a wholesale level without regard to weather it is a man woman or child. They hold entire subdivision populations hostage and rule it with an iron fist or kill anyone who should try and challenge them.

Discuss

There are many types of gangs. Some may resemble terrorist groups. Some arguably ARE extensions of terrorist groups (e.g. middle eastern militias that claim al qaeda affiliation). Some more closely resemble a corporation or nation (e.g. Gangster Disciples between 1980 and 2004). Some exist purely for profit and dislike violence for the attention it attracts (drug crews). Some will take over entire apartment buildings while others don't even have a real "turf" they claim. Others exist but their violence and crime is not directed towards any specific end but myopic hedonism.

But equating gangs with terrorists is like equating aggressive nations with terrorists.

A completely valid and apt comparison?
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Wnope
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4/21/2013 7:08:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 6:55:11 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 4/21/2013 5:51:51 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 4/21/2013 5:25:02 PM, sadolite wrote:
Their goal is to terrorise, strip other people of their freedom to move about, murder people at a wholesale level without regard to weather it is a man woman or child. They hold entire subdivision populations hostage and rule it with an iron fist or kill anyone who should try and challenge them.

Discuss

There are many types of gangs. Some may resemble terrorist groups. Some arguably ARE extensions of terrorist groups (e.g. middle eastern militias that claim al qaeda affiliation). Some more closely resemble a corporation or nation (e.g. Gangster Disciples between 1980 and 2004). Some exist purely for profit and dislike violence for the attention it attracts (drug crews). Some will take over entire apartment buildings while others don't even have a real "turf" they claim. Others exist but their violence and crime is not directed towards any specific end but myopic hedonism.

But equating gangs with terrorists is like equating aggressive nations with terrorists.

A completely valid and apt comparison?

COMPARISON. That's fine. "The way a nation acts is like how terrorists act, etc."

This is about "gangs = terrorist" (gangs are no different than). It's destroying all distinguishing lines between the term "gang" and the term "terrorist."

There are gangs which do not engage in terrorism, and terrorists which cannot be described as any more of a gang than hunter-gatherer tribes are gangs.
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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4/24/2013 3:52:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
So very odd, the final paper I wrote in my last writing class, was actually analyzing terrorism against other things which also fit the definition of the word. Strangely I found a thread to connect it to bank executives (my teacher was a socialist, as weak as it was it was a sure A.).
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R0b1Billion
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4/24/2013 9:03:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
When I first moved to Green Bay I joined a gang (I was just turning 16 y.o. at the time). To us it was just a family. We'd associate closely, get drunk and have fun. Although I had to fight to get into the gang, there was never any violence involved afterwards. There was some petty theft, trespassing, and other minor criminal activity but it was in the interests of just having fun, not to hurt people or achieve some higher, more dangerous goal. I don't necessarily see any parallel between gangs and terrorists; some gangs become large and quite violent, but that doesn't mean all are. Groups of friends I had afterwards that weren't "gangs" were much more violent than these guys.
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suttichart.denpruektham
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4/24/2013 9:38:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/24/2013 9:03:39 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
When I first moved to Green Bay I joined a gang (I was just turning 16 y.o. at the time). To us it was just a family. We'd associate closely, get drunk and have fun. Although I had to fight to get into the gang, there was never any violence involved afterwards. There was some petty theft, trespassing, and other minor criminal activity but it was in the interests of just having fun, not to hurt people or achieve some higher, more dangerous goal. I don't necessarily see any parallel between gangs and terrorists; some gangs become large and quite violent, but that doesn't mean all are. Groups of friends I had afterwards that weren't "gangs" were much more violent than these guys.

"When my grand father and grand mother were young, they decided that the society is unjust so they join with the communist terrorist. To them it was just a family, they associated closely, get drunk and have fun. there was never any violence involved afterwards. There was some petty theft, trespassing, and other minor criminal activity but it was in the interests of society, not to hurt people. I don't necessarily see any different between gangs and terrorists; some terrorist cell become large and quite violent, but that doesn't mean all are. Groups of friends they had afterwards that weren't "communist" were much more violent than these guys."

Guest the only different you can have is that gang do not have political goal, while terrorist do. Oh and the goal is in conflict with national interest otherwise you called them "freedom fighter".
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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4/24/2013 9:37:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well yeah, with no political goal, and no power of any kind to carry out, that's a pretty significant difference to me. If you want to draw parallels then you have to draw them in some kind of meaningful sense.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Wnope
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4/24/2013 10:07:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/24/2013 9:03:39 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
When I first moved to Green Bay I joined a gang (I was just turning 16 y.o. at the time). To us it was just a family. We'd associate closely, get drunk and have fun. Although I had to fight to get into the gang, there was never any violence involved afterwards. There was some petty theft, trespassing, and other minor criminal activity but it was in the interests of just having fun, not to hurt people or achieve some higher, more dangerous goal. I don't necessarily see any parallel between gangs and terrorists; some gangs become large and quite violent, but that doesn't mean all are. Groups of friends I had afterwards that weren't "gangs" were much more violent than these guys.

Three random questions:

1. Was this gang in a suburban area or urban?
2. Was membership influenced by spatial location in any way? That is, were people more likely to join if they were from a certain location (excluding the fact that friends live close to each other)?
3. Did it exist independent of its members? That is, could you replace all the relevant people but still say it is a coherent entity? (e.g. Crips are still crips no matter who is a crip). If a gang is just a circle of friends, then replacing members would disband it.
Wnope
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4/24/2013 10:17:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/24/2013 9:38:21 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 4/24/2013 9:03:39 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
When I first moved to Green Bay I joined a gang (I was just turning 16 y.o. at the time). To us it was just a family. We'd associate closely, get drunk and have fun. Although I had to fight to get into the gang, there was never any violence involved afterwards. There was some petty theft, trespassing, and other minor criminal activity but it was in the interests of just having fun, not to hurt people or achieve some higher, more dangerous goal. I don't necessarily see any parallel between gangs and terrorists; some gangs become large and quite violent, but that doesn't mean all are. Groups of friends I had afterwards that weren't "gangs" were much more violent than these guys.

"When my grand father and grand mother were young, they decided that the society is unjust so they join with the communist terrorist. To them it was just a family, they associated closely, get drunk and have fun. there was never any violence involved afterwards. There was some petty theft, trespassing, and other minor criminal activity but it was in the interests of society, not to hurt people. I don't necessarily see any different between gangs and terrorists; some terrorist cell become large and quite violent, but that doesn't mean all are. Groups of friends they had afterwards that weren't "communist" were much more violent than these guys."

Guest the only different you can have is that gang do not have political goal, while terrorist do. Oh and the goal is in conflict with national interest otherwise you called them "freedom fighter".

Actually, gangs CAN have a political goal. For instance, the Black Disciples (the original members) were believers in helping the black community. Gangster Disciples actually contributed money to elections to buy off politicians.

A "terrorist" is at its most general an individual identified by his/her function of "engaging/endorsing terrorism." You can argue that any individual who applies any form of physical coercion to get what they want is a "terrorist."

However, an individual cannot be a gang member by himself. It describes an individuals relationships, not his function (although a gang member can be described functionally such as a "soldier" or "drug dealer").

You can have gang members who engage in terrorism, and by virtue of their engagement call them terrorists (which our government does quite often). There are terrorists who structure their organizations almost identically to gangs (sometimes purposefully so as in the case of Al Qaeda and Mexican cartels).

If you engage in a "gangs are no different than terrorists" perspective you are essentially forced to conclude that all criminals who use coercion for some means are terrorists.
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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4/25/2013 2:05:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
But it is, isn't it? What is terrorist if not for the fact that they are law breaker who use violence? Criminal who used violence would be a steps closer to being terrorist, criminal who used violence to achieve political agenda is identical to the action of terrorist.

In fact race-base violence gang can be classified as terrorist kkk for example.
R0b1Billion
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4/25/2013 8:13:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/24/2013 10:07:43 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 4/24/2013 9:03:39 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
When I first moved to Green Bay I joined a gang (I was just turning 16 y.o. at the time). To us it was just a family. We'd associate closely, get drunk and have fun. Although I had to fight to get into the gang, there was never any violence involved afterwards. There was some petty theft, trespassing, and other minor criminal activity but it was in the interests of just having fun, not to hurt people or achieve some higher, more dangerous goal. I don't necessarily see any parallel between gangs and terrorists; some gangs become large and quite violent, but that doesn't mean all are. Groups of friends I had afterwards that weren't "gangs" were much more violent than these guys.

Three random questions:

1. Was this gang in a suburban area or urban?
2. Was membership influenced by spatial location in any way? That is, were people more likely to join if they were from a certain location (excluding the fact that friends live close to each other)?
3. Did it exist independent of its members? That is, could you replace all the relevant people but still say it is a coherent entity? (e.g. Crips are still crips no matter who is a crip). If a gang is just a circle of friends, then replacing members would disband it.

This is a small town (Green Bay, WI); it was comprised of a handful of native-American kids who were for all intents and purposes just a group of friends. It was originally started by an older guy who was never really around afterwards... Certain members still retained affiliation with Gangsta Disciples but sort of broke off into what we had after leaving that life.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Juris_Naturalis
Posts: 273
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5/13/2013 9:36:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 5:32:00 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Gangs and terrorist are quite different. Terrorists use terror as a means to terror. For them, terror is the end. Gangs, however, use terror and violence to achieve a goal other than merely terror.

You're wrong. There can be a whole number of political or societal reasons why terrorists act the way they do.
Df0512
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5/13/2013 8:09:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 5:25:02 PM, sadolite wrote:
Their goal is to terrorise, strip other people of their freedom to move about, murder people at a wholesale level without regard to weather it is a man woman or child. They hold entire subdivision populations hostage and rule it with an iron fist or kill anyone who should try and challenge them.

Discuss

i woundnt go so far as to cal them terrorist my friend. Gang violence is usually aimed at other gangs not the people. Yes innocent people end up becoming the victims and thats wrong. But u shouldn't go around using that word so recklessly. A petty gang member is nothing compared to the boston bombers. And not all gang members are aholes. I know
Khaos_Mage
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5/14/2013 11:39:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/21/2013 5:25:02 PM, sadolite wrote:
Their goal is to terrorise, strip other people of their freedom to move about, murder people at a wholesale level without regard to weather it is a man woman or child. They hold entire subdivision populations hostage and rule it with an iron fist or kill anyone who should try and challenge them.

Discuss

Gangs do what they do, generally in an effort to profit. The terror they create is a natural consequence of their actions.

Terrorists purposefully use terror as a means for their goal, usually to influence government. Whether the goal is to stop supporting Isreal, get out of the Middle East, dissolve the IRS, or whatever.

This is the difference, and it is worthy of a distinction.
My work here is, finally, done.
Truth_seeker
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8/4/2014 8:07:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/21/2013 5:25:02 PM, sadolite wrote:
Their goal is to terrorise, strip other people of their freedom to move about, murder people at a wholesale level without regard to weather it is a man woman or child. They hold entire subdivision populations hostage and rule it with an iron fist or kill anyone who should try and challenge them.

Discuss

A gangster isn't a terrorist for the following:

Usually, gangs commit crimes to get money and fight off rival gangs, not innocent people. While yes, some do kill innocent people, it's accidental or it's to punish the actions of a particular person involved in the gang. A terrorist just targets innocent people to induce fear into the population. A gangster while he may do that, ultimately has more liberty in his life if that makes sense.
Wocambs
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8/4/2014 11:45:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/21/2013 5:25:02 PM, sadolite wrote:
Their goal is to terrorise, strip other people of their freedom to move about, murder people at a wholesale level without regard to weather it is a man woman or child. They hold entire subdivision populations hostage and rule it with an iron fist or kill anyone who should try and challenge them.

Discuss

The word 'terrorist' is used to scare the public into accepting greater control over their lives and/or to convince them that their government is fighting on the right side. The word 'gang' is used to scare the public, but normally not in such a profound sense.
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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8/4/2014 1:47:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/4/2014 11:45:15 AM, Wocambs wrote:
At 4/21/2013 5:25:02 PM, sadolite wrote:
Their goal is to terrorise, strip other people of their freedom to move about, murder people at a wholesale level without regard to weather it is a man woman or child. They hold entire subdivision populations hostage and rule it with an iron fist or kill anyone who should try and challenge them.

Discuss

The word 'terrorist' is used to scare the public into accepting greater control over their lives and/or to convince them that their government is fighting on the right side. The word 'gang' is used to scare the public, but normally not in such a profound sense.

Just so long as we use semantics to treat them differently.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
intellectuallyprimitive
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8/5/2014 2:15:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/21/2013 5:32:00 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Gangs and terrorist are quite different. Terrorists use terror as a means to terror. For them, terror is the end. Gangs, however, use terror and violence to achieve a goal other than merely terror.

Gangs may inadvertently permeate terror regardless of the intent to instill terror. Terrorists may implement terror to attain an intended goal.