Total Posts:81|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Is rap really a problem?

Df0512
Posts: 966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2013 9:36:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was commenting on a thread earlier and I found myself defending hip-hop, again. I did some more googling to see what new stories I can find about hip-hop and society. I just wanted t now what DDO opinion was.

I dont think it is. I think every genre has it's black sheep but in general i isn't. What do you think?
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2013 9:41:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't find it inspiring in any sense, but it doesn't really annoy me unless the lyrical elements are limited to promiscuous women and unnecessarily rotating tires. I usually find country songs devoted to the sole purpose of declaring how 'country' the singer is to be much more grating.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Df0512
Posts: 966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2013 9:55:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/13/2013 9:41:50 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I don't find it inspiring in any sense, but it doesn't really annoy me unless the lyrical elements are limited to promiscuous women and unnecessarily rotating tires. I usually find country songs devoted to the sole purpose of declaring how 'country' the singer is to be much more grating.

Ok, I see that you dont like it but my question is "Is rap really a problem?". For society I mean.
EvanK
Posts: 599
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2013 10:05:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't personally think so. Old style rap and hip hop is a lot different than modern, but I don't think you can blame our current societal problems on a music genre.
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2013 10:12:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/13/2013 9:55:39 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 5/13/2013 9:41:50 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I don't find it inspiring in any sense, but it doesn't really annoy me unless the lyrical elements are limited to promiscuous women and unnecessarily rotating tires. I usually find country songs devoted to the sole purpose of declaring how 'country' the singer is to be much more grating.

Ok, I see that you dont like it but my question is "Is rap really a problem?". For society I mean.

I think that rap is more of a symptom than a cause, and is unduly focused on by culture warriors, usually in a subtly racist manner.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Df0512
Posts: 966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2013 10:21:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/13/2013 10:12:58 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/13/2013 9:55:39 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 5/13/2013 9:41:50 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I don't find it inspiring in any sense, but it doesn't really annoy me unless the lyrical elements are limited to promiscuous women and unnecessarily rotating tires. I usually find country songs devoted to the sole purpose of declaring how 'country' the singer is to be much more grating.

Ok, I see that you dont like it but my question is "Is rap really a problem?". For society I mean.

I think that rap is more of a symptom than a cause, and is unduly focused on by culture warriors, usually in a subtly racist manner.

I agree. I just think they focus on specific types of rap music and not all. Man swear there were like 8 people I wanted to see comment on this because I know they disagree. Now the dnt want t say anything lol.
Single_Cell_Pony
Posts: 18
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2013 11:16:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't understand the question. Rap is just a genre of music like pop, industrial, trance, etc.

Now, if you've ever listened to Yoko Ono singing, that is a problem.
RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,074
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2013 11:20:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/13/2013 11:16:29 PM, Single_Cell_Pony wrote:
I don't understand the question. Rap is just a genre of music like pop, industrial, trance, etc.

Now, if you've ever listened to Yoko Ono singing, that is a problem.

Well done for your first post, comrade. Well done.
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
Df0512
Posts: 966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2013 11:25:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/13/2013 11:16:29 PM, Single_Cell_Pony wrote:
I don't understand the question. Rap is just a genre of music like pop, industrial, trance, etc.

Now, if you've ever listened to Yoko Ono singing, that is a problem.

Its actually vey easy to understand. Just try not to be to philosophical when thinking of an answer. Google the subject. You will find plenty of subjet matter to motivate you. And yes I agree with RyuuKyuzo. Well done
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2013 11:42:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I got bored with four beats to the measure, Professor speech compressor
Terminated his tenure to explore a more rewarding adventure

I procured a small piece of the treasure, collections from a former era
Dating back to forever, the warrior became protector

I spit at a thousand KIPS, kilo tons of pressure
Every letter is measured in such a way you will remember

-- Canibus
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Single_Cell_Pony
Posts: 18
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2013 11:43:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
LOL - Thanks for the props.

Seriously, rap is just a medium of expression like every other form of art. In and of itself it is neutral just as art is neutral. How it is recieved is relative to the listener and any value judgement of it is neccessarily going to be subjective.

When Rock music first came out in the 50's, many claimed it was "evil" or "sexual" or some other such negative attribute. I don't agree, but culturally-speaking I understand the attitude because it was very different than what was accepted at time. To those of previous generations, rock was also embarrassing because it dared to address many themes (eg. sex, relationships, social issues, the government, etc) which were previously considered socially taboo to discuss in public.

I believe any backlash against rap (or any medium) is an little more than a Hasty Generalization Fallacy made by people looking for a convenient fall-guy.
Agent_Orange
Posts: 2,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2013 4:46:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/13/2013 11:42:58 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I got bored with four beats to the measure, Professor speech compressor
Terminated his tenure to explore a more rewarding adventure

I procured a small piece of the treasure, collections from a former era
Dating back to forever, the warrior became protector

I spit at a thousand KIPS, kilo tons of pressure
Every letter is measured in such a way you will remember

-- Canibus

Canibus is so wack...
#BlackLivesMatter
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2013 7:43:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/13/2013 9:36:46 PM, Df0512 wrote:
I was commenting on a thread earlier and I found myself defending hip-hop, again. I did some more googling to see what new stories I can find about hip-hop and society. I just wanted t now what DDO opinion was.

I dont think it is. I think every genre has it's black sheep but in general i isn't. What do you think?

I think it started out as a liberation movement for minorities and the down trodden, and now the hip hop artists just appeal to the ignorant society we are living in. I think there are of course a few positive mainstream rappers, Lupe Fiasco, Eminem, Kendrick Lamar, etc. But most of them promote sex, drug use and brag about their wealth. Since their audience is primarily adolescent, they are influencing these teens to aspire to be things they probably won't be (sports stars, a famous hip hop artist, etc.), they are telling them that drugs are fine ('I'm taking them, and I am rich and famous'), and most commonly talk about jumping the bones of any decent looking groupie who wants to put out for them. This is obviously a terrible influence.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2013 7:45:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
But I ultimately agree, hip hop is but a symptom. The cause is not really curable, it is that adolescents are easily manipulated and think any rapper that has a good beat in their song is a god.
Df0512
Posts: 966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2013 8:45:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 7:43:25 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 5/13/2013 9:36:46 PM, Df0512 wrote:
I was commenting on a thread earlier and I found myself defending hip-hop, again. I did some more googling to see what new stories I can find about hip-hop and society. I just wanted t now what DDO opinion was.

I dont think it is. I think every genre has it's black sheep but in general i isn't. What do you think?

I think it started out as a liberation movement for minorities and the down trodden, and now the hip hop artists just appeal to the ignorant society we are living in. I think there are of course a few positive mainstream rappers, Lupe Fiasco, Eminem, Kendrick Lamar, etc. But most of them promote sex, drug use and brag about their wealth. Since their audience is primarily adolescent, they are influencing these teens to aspire to be things they probably won't be (sports stars, a famous hip hop artist, etc.), they are telling them that drugs are fine ('I'm taking them, and I am rich and famous'), and most commonly talk about jumping the bones of any decent looking groupie who wants to put out for them. This is obviously a terrible influence.

Well there is an overwhelming amount of "positive rappers" not o the main stream that also get ignored. I suppose they really can't be part of the debate because kids aren't listening to them. I say that there are a lot of things parents blame others for that is really just their fault. If I didnt want my son to listen to a certain type of music I just wouldnt let him. And if he did he would pay the price until he decided it wasn't worth it. Now kids get choices lol. I got none of those.
Df0512
Posts: 966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2013 8:47:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 4:46:33 AM, Agent_Orange wrote:
At 5/13/2013 11:42:58 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I got bored with four beats to the measure, Professor speech compressor
Terminated his tenure to explore a more rewarding adventure

I procured a small piece of the treasure, collections from a former era
Dating back to forever, the warrior became protector

I spit at a thousand KIPS, kilo tons of pressure
Every letter is measured in such a way you will remember

-- Canibus

Canibus is so wack...

Yea he is. I do think the tide is changing when it comes to rap music. I think the south side d-boy faze is fading.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2013 10:34:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/13/2013 10:21:26 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 5/13/2013 10:12:58 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/13/2013 9:55:39 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 5/13/2013 9:41:50 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I don't find it inspiring in any sense, but it doesn't really annoy me unless the lyrical elements are limited to promiscuous women and unnecessarily rotating tires. I usually find country songs devoted to the sole purpose of declaring how 'country' the singer is to be much more grating.

Ok, I see that you dont like it but my question is "Is rap really a problem?". For society I mean.

I think that rap is more of a symptom than a cause, and is unduly focused on by culture warriors, usually in a subtly racist manner.

I agree. I just think they focus on specific types of rap music and not all. Man swear there were like 8 people I wanted to see comment on this because I know they disagree. Now the dnt want t say anything lol.

I find the above to be extremely reasonable.

That being said, I personally do not like most rap and hip-hop. Caveat - My exposure is extremely limited, as I do not seek out these venues and only hear limited playback, which may increase the proportionality of my exposure to the more controversial aspects of rap and hip-hop.

My main beefs with rap especially is that at times 1) there are no women in rap music, only bitches (video...I found this by doing a google search for "rap im a bitch"). The primary focus of and activity to do with members of the opposite sex is fornication. Now, I like sex, but to me this is way over the top. 2) Issues like drugs and violence tend to be prevalent. 3) It is difficult if not impossible to find positive models in the genre.

Let's go through the first 20 seconds of the video (which is all I bothered to watch):

"You know not to be disrespectful or anything...but you know this one right here....it's for the bitches. Not any ordinary type of bitch. But the real money gittin' bitches! You know the real thorough-bitches!"

If this is not meant to be disrespectful, I'd hate to see rap music disrespecting "bitches".

---

For hip-hop, I like Beyonce, but I associate the genre with Mariah Carey. Mariah Carey IMHO succinctly illustrates everything wrong with hip-hop. Here we have a former gospel singer turned into little more than a sex-toy (if one looks at how her videos have evolved).

I remember Arrested Development. This is the ONLY rap group I can think of that did not dwell on the negative aspects of society. Arrested Development was popular DECADES AGO. Barely anyone knows who or what this group is - they have no cultural successors. They and anyone like them are drowned by the likes of Snoop Dogg (who has done porn rap).

To be a bit more balanced, I also do not like grunge and heavy metal for somewhat similar reasons.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2013 10:43:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Kanye West is to my knowledge one of the most popular rap artists, historically and currently:

http://rapgenius.com...

Hello, can I speak to, uh..
Yeah, you know who you are, look
You had no idea what ya dealing with
Something on some of this realest sh!t
Pop champagne, I'll give you a sip
'bout to go dumb: how come?
Yeah that's my bitch, that's my bitch
Shorty right there? That's my bitch

[Hook: Elly Jackson]
I've been waiting for a long long time
Just to get off and throw my hands up high
And live my life and live my life
Just to get off and throw my hands up high

[Verse 1: Kanye West]
I paid for them titties, get your own
It ain't safe in the city, watch the throne
She say I care more about them basquions
Basquiats, she learning a new word, it's yacht
Blew the world up as soon as I hit the club with her
Too Short called, told me I fell in love with her
Seat by actors, ball players and drug dealers
And some lesbians that never loved niggas
Twisted love story, True Romance
Mary Magdalene from a pole dance
I'm a freak, huh, rock star life
The second girl with us, that's our wife
Hey boys and girls, I got a new riddle
Who's the new old perv that's tryna play second fiddle
No disrespect, I'm not tryna belittle
But my dick worth money I put Monie in the middle
Where she at? In the middle

[Hook]

[Bridge: Justin Vernon]
Swilling little licks and mixes "til mornin', I'm yearnin', ooh yeah
Could I maybe have another dab of your potion? Stop motion, ooh, yeah

[Verse 2: Jay-Z]
Go harder than a nigga for a nigga go figure
Told me keep my own money if we ever did split up
How can somethin' so gangsta be so pretty in pictures?
Ripped jeans and a blazer and some Louboutin slippers
Uh, Picasso was alive he woulda made her
That's right nigga Mona Lisa can't fade her
I mean Marilyn Monroe, she's quite nice
But why all the pretty icons always all white?
Put some colored girls in the MoMA
Half these broads ain"t got nothing on Willona
Don"t make me bring Thelma in it
Bring Halle, bring Pen"lope and Salma in it
Back to my Beyonc"s
You deserve three stacks, word to Andr"
Call Larry Gagosian, you belong in museums
You belong in vintage clothes crushing the whole building
You belong with niggas who used to be known for dope dealing
You too dope for any of those civilians
Now shoo children, stop looking at her tits
Get ya own dog, ya heard? That's my bitch


---

I didn't read this very carefully but I don't see any satire here. Simply put, no thanks.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2013 10:54:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 8:45:16 AM, Df0512 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 7:43:25 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 5/13/2013 9:36:46 PM, Df0512 wrote:
I was commenting on a thread earlier and I found myself defending hip-hop, again. I did some more googling to see what new stories I can find about hip-hop and society. I just wanted t now what DDO opinion was.

I dont think it is. I think every genre has it's black sheep but in general i isn't. What do you think?

I think it started out as a liberation movement for minorities and the down trodden, and now the hip hop artists just appeal to the ignorant society we are living in. I think there are of course a few positive mainstream rappers, Lupe Fiasco, Eminem, Kendrick Lamar, etc. But most of them promote sex, drug use and brag about their wealth. Since their audience is primarily adolescent, they are influencing these teens to aspire to be things they probably won't be (sports stars, a famous hip hop artist, etc.), they are telling them that drugs are fine ('I'm taking them, and I am rich and famous'), and most commonly talk about jumping the bones of any decent looking groupie who wants to put out for them. This is obviously a terrible influence.

Well there is an overwhelming amount of "positive rappers" not o the main stream that also get ignored. I suppose they really can't be part of the debate because kids aren't listening to them. I say that there are a lot of things parents blame others for that is really just their fault. If I didnt want my son to listen to a certain type of music I just wouldnt let him. And if he did he would pay the price until he decided it wasn't worth it. Now kids get choices lol. I got none of those.

Yes, but with how wire this generation is, good luck banning your kid from music. He/she could hear it on a phone, from another friend on the radio when they are in someone else's car, and they can still do it on the computer and just delete history. Most teens are defiant, it will happen.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2013 10:55:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Contrast:

http://rapgenius.com...

[Verse 1: Speech]
Lord I've really been real stressed
Down and out, losing ground
Although I am Black and proud
Problems got me pessimistic
Brothers and sisters keep messin up
Why does it have to be so damn tough
I don't know where I can go
To let these ghosts out of my skull
My grandma's past, my brother's gone
I never at once felt so alone
I know you're supposed to be my steering wheel
Not just my spare tire (home)
But Lord I ask you (home)
To be my guiding force and truth (home)
For some strange reason it had to be (home)
He guided me to Tennessee (home)

[Hook]
Take me to another place
Take me to another land
Make me forget all that hurts me
Let me understand your plan

[Verse Two]
Lord it's obvious we got a relationship
Talking to each other every night and day
Although you're superior over me
We talk to each other in a friendship way
Then outta nowhere you tell me to break
Outta the country and into more country
Past Dyesburg into Ripley
Where the ghost of childhood haunts me
Walk the roads my forefathers walked
Climbed the trees my forefathers hung from
Ask those trees for all their wisdom
They tell me my ears are so young (home)
Go back to from whence you came (home)
My family tree my family name (home)
For some strange reason it had to be (home)
He guided me to Tennessee (home)

[Hook]

[Interlude: Aerle Taree]
Eshe, she went down to Holly Springs
Rasadon and Baba, they went down to Peachtree
Headliner, I challenge you to a game of horseshoes, a game of horseshoes

[Verse 3: Speech]
Now I see the importance of history
Why my people be in the mess that they be
Many journeys to freedom made in vain
By brothers on the corner playing ghetto games
I ask you Lord why you enlightened me
Without the enlightment of all my folks
He said cause I set myself on a quest for truth
And he was there to quench my thirst
But I am still thirsty
The Lord allowed me to drink some more
He said what I am searching for are
The answers to all which are in front of me
The ultimate truth started to get blurry
For some strange reason it had to be
It was all a dream about Tennessee

[Hook]

[Outro: Aerle Taree]
Headliner I won the game of horseshoes
Now you owe me a watermelon
Let's go climb trees and skip over rocks
Do like they do below the border
Speech's hair
Don't it look like the roots of the tree that the ancestors were hung from
But that's okay, get it cause he's down to Earth


---

This song received a lot of airtime when it first came out. This song hit #1 on US Billboard. It talks about an appeal to spirituality in the light of disenfranchisement. There is no profanity. To my knowledge there's nothing remotely like this today in rap.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Df0512
Posts: 966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2013 11:23:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 10:43:35 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
Kanye West is to my knowledge one of the most popular rap artists, historically and currently:

http://rapgenius.com...

Hello, can I speak to, uh..
Yeah, you know who you are, look
You had no idea what ya dealing with
Something on some of this realest sh!t
Pop champagne, I'll give you a sip
'bout to go dumb: how come?
Yeah that's my bitch, that's my bitch
Shorty right there? That's my bitch

[Hook: Elly Jackson]
I've been waiting for a long long time
Just to get off and throw my hands up high
And live my life and live my life
Just to get off and throw my hands up high

[Verse 1: Kanye West]
I paid for them titties, get your own
It ain't safe in the city, watch the throne
She say I care more about them basquions
Basquiats, she learning a new word, it's yacht
Blew the world up as soon as I hit the club with her
Too Short called, told me I fell in love with her
Seat by actors, ball players and drug dealers
And some lesbians that never loved niggas
Twisted love story, True Romance
Mary Magdalene from a pole dance
I'm a freak, huh, rock star life
The second girl with us, that's our wife
Hey boys and girls, I got a new riddle
Who's the new old perv that's tryna play second fiddle
No disrespect, I'm not tryna belittle
But my dick worth money I put Monie in the middle
Where she at? In the middle

[Hook]

[Bridge: Justin Vernon]
Swilling little licks and mixes "til mornin', I'm yearnin', ooh yeah
Could I maybe have another dab of your potion? Stop motion, ooh, yeah

[Verse 2: Jay-Z]
Go harder than a nigga for a nigga go figure
Told me keep my own money if we ever did split up
How can somethin' so gangsta be so pretty in pictures?
Ripped jeans and a blazer and some Louboutin slippers
Uh, Picasso was alive he woulda made her
That's right nigga Mona Lisa can't fade her
I mean Marilyn Monroe, she's quite nice
But why all the pretty icons always all white?
Put some colored girls in the MoMA
Half these broads ain"t got nothing on Willona
Don"t make me bring Thelma in it
Bring Halle, bring Pen"lope and Salma in it
Back to my Beyonc"s
You deserve three stacks, word to Andr"
Call Larry Gagosian, you belong in museums
You belong in vintage clothes crushing the whole building
You belong with niggas who used to be known for dope dealing
You too dope for any of those civilians
Now shoo children, stop looking at her tits
Get ya own dog, ya heard? That's my bitch


---

I didn't read this very carefully but I don't see any satire here. Simply put, no thanks.


Well I definitely didn't start this thread to defend Kanye West or Diamond. Rap music definitely has it's black sheep. And unfortunately we live in a world where the most controversial get the most exposure. And more exposure gets more money. Rappers know this and as a result try to become more controversial. So we end what with a genre of music saturated with rappers shooting people and selling drugs. All the while the good rappers get swept under the rug. I do however believe the tide is changing. Slowly but surely. As someone who actively listen to all types up rap music, I think its becoming something different now.
Df0512
Posts: 966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2013 11:29:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 10:54:08 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 5/14/2013 8:45:16 AM, Df0512 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 7:43:25 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 5/13/2013 9:36:46 PM, Df0512 wrote:
I was commenting on a thread earlier and I found myself defending hip-hop, again. I did some more googling to see what new stories I can find about hip-hop and society. I just wanted t now what DDO opinion was.

I dont think it is. I think every genre has it's black sheep but in general i isn't. What do you think?

I think it started out as a liberation movement for minorities and the down trodden, and now the hip hop artists just appeal to the ignorant society we are living in. I think there are of course a few positive mainstream rappers, Lupe Fiasco, Eminem, Kendrick Lamar, etc. But most of them promote sex, drug use and brag about their wealth. Since their audience is primarily adolescent, they are influencing these teens to aspire to be things they probably won't be (sports stars, a famous hip hop artist, etc.), they are telling them that drugs are fine ('I'm taking them, and I am rich and famous'), and most commonly talk about jumping the bones of any decent looking groupie who wants to put out for them. This is obviously a terrible influence.

Well there is an overwhelming amount of "positive rappers" not o the main stream that also get ignored. I suppose they really can't be part of the debate because kids aren't listening to them. I say that there are a lot of things parents blame others for that is really just their fault. If I didnt want my son to listen to a certain type of music I just wouldnt let him. And if he did he would pay the price until he decided it wasn't worth it. Now kids get choices lol. I got none of those.

Yes, but with how wire this generation is, good luck banning your kid from music. He/she could hear it on a phone, from another friend on the radio when they are in someone else's car, and they can still do it on the computer and just delete history. Most teens are defiant, it will happen.

This is my major problem with this issue. People keep telling themselves they can't control their children so they end up fighting people who have nothing to do with their children. You have to be smarter then your kids. IF they dont listen take the radio. If they still dont listen take the computer, then start taken them to and from school and so on.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2013 12:13:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 11:23:23 AM, Df0512 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 10:43:35 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
Kanye West is to my knowledge one of the most popular rap artists, historically and currently:

http://rapgenius.com...

Hello, can I speak to, uh..
Yeah, you know who you are, look
You had no idea what ya dealing with
Something on some of this realest sh!t
Pop champagne, I'll give you a sip
'bout to go dumb: how come?
Yeah that's my bitch, that's my bitch
Shorty right there? That's my bitch

[Hook: Elly Jackson]
I've been waiting for a long long time
Just to get off and throw my hands up high
And live my life and live my life
Just to get off and throw my hands up high

[Verse 1: Kanye West]
I paid for them titties, get your own
It ain't safe in the city, watch the throne
She say I care more about them basquions
Basquiats, she learning a new word, it's yacht
Blew the world up as soon as I hit the club with her
Too Short called, told me I fell in love with her
Seat by actors, ball players and drug dealers
And some lesbians that never loved niggas
Twisted love story, True Romance
Mary Magdalene from a pole dance
I'm a freak, huh, rock star life
The second girl with us, that's our wife
Hey boys and girls, I got a new riddle
Who's the new old perv that's tryna play second fiddle
No disrespect, I'm not tryna belittle
But my dick worth money I put Monie in the middle
Where she at? In the middle

[Hook]

[Bridge: Justin Vernon]
Swilling little licks and mixes "til mornin', I'm yearnin', ooh yeah
Could I maybe have another dab of your potion? Stop motion, ooh, yeah

[Verse 2: Jay-Z]
Go harder than a nigga for a nigga go figure
Told me keep my own money if we ever did split up
How can somethin' so gangsta be so pretty in pictures?
Ripped jeans and a blazer and some Louboutin slippers
Uh, Picasso was alive he woulda made her
That's right nigga Mona Lisa can't fade her
I mean Marilyn Monroe, she's quite nice
But why all the pretty icons always all white?
Put some colored girls in the MoMA
Half these broads ain"t got nothing on Willona
Don"t make me bring Thelma in it
Bring Halle, bring Pen"lope and Salma in it
Back to my Beyonc"s
You deserve three stacks, word to Andr"
Call Larry Gagosian, you belong in museums
You belong in vintage clothes crushing the whole building
You belong with niggas who used to be known for dope dealing
You too dope for any of those civilians
Now shoo children, stop looking at her tits
Get ya own dog, ya heard? That's my bitch


---

I didn't read this very carefully but I don't see any satire here. Simply put, no thanks.


Well I definitely didn't start this thread to defend Kanye West or Diamond. Rap music definitely has it's black sheep. And unfortunately we live in a world where the most controversial get the most exposure. And more exposure gets more money. Rappers know this and as a result try to become more controversial. So we end what with a genre of music saturated with rappers shooting people and selling drugs. All the while the good rappers get swept under the rug. I do however believe the tide is changing. Slowly but surely. As someone who actively listen to all types up rap music, I think its becoming something different now.

I find it interesting that you responded to the Kanye West video, and not to the Arrested Development video.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2013 12:16:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 12:13:31 PM, wrichcirw wrote:

I find it interesting that you responded to the Kanye West video, and not to the Arrested Development video.

Essentially, and I do believe this is wholly unintentional on your part, I see you veering the conversation about rap onto the very aspects you decry, instead of the aspects you champion. By doing so, you draw attention to the former, and further increase the likelihood of ignorance on the latter.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Agent_Orange
Posts: 2,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2013 12:30:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
See again, don't talk rap unless you know rap. I can't speak on these new cats but for one, posting that one song by Jay Z and Kanye West and trying to portray them as ignorant, that's just dishonest.

And rap actually isn't misogynistic. The word "B1tch" doesn't have the negative connotations it does elsewhere. It is seen as a female equivalent to the word "Nigga". Female rappers also get a lot more respect in that field that any other I've seen. Rap dudes talk about sex a lot but....so do all dudes. Go watch Spike TV or something. Sex is prevalent in our culture not just rap.
#BlackLivesMatter
Df0512
Posts: 966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2013 12:53:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 12:16:38 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 5/14/2013 12:13:31 PM, wrichcirw wrote:

I find it interesting that you responded to the Kanye West video, and not to the Arrested Development video.

Essentially, and I do believe this is wholly unintentional on your part, I see you veering the conversation about rap onto the very aspects you decry, instead of the aspects you champion. By doing so, you draw attention to the former, and further increase the likelihood of ignorance on the latter.

Well that is the very topic of the thread and the one I intended to discuss. I did not find that post relevant to the topic so I ignored it. As you have already admitted

That being said, I personally do not like most rap and hip-hop. Caveat - My exposure is extremely limited, as I do not seek out these venues and only hear limited playback, which may increase the proportionality of my exposure to the more controversial aspects of rap and hip-hop.

That being said me getting into a discussion about how arrested development compares to todays rap would be pointless. We can go back and forth with examples supporting each of our opinions. But your only exposure to rap has been whats portrayed in the media and as I've already stated, the most controversial rappers always get the most exposure. I consider myself part of that culture so I don't expect to have a honest discussion using actual content.
Df0512
Posts: 966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2013 1:05:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 12:30:05 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
See again, don't talk rap unless you know rap. I can't speak on these new cats but for one, posting that one song by Jay Z and Kanye West and trying to portray them as ignorant, that's just dishonest.

And rap actually isn't misogynistic. The word "B1tch" doesn't have the negative connotations it does elsewhere. It is seen as a female equivalent to the word "Nigga". Female rappers also get a lot more respect in that field that any other I've seen. Rap dudes talk about sex a lot but....so do all dudes. Go watch Spike TV or something. Sex is prevalent in our culture not just rap.

I actually wrote something almost exactly to that but erased it. Explaining that to someone who isn't part of that culture is pointless. It just something you have had to grown up with.