Total Posts:29|Showing Posts:1-29
Jump to topic:

Feminism Undermines Gener Equality

twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2013 1:13:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think, in general, modern day feminists strive to make "women better than men" as opposed to gender equality. Feminists are quick to point out instances where men have it better than women. Yet, are okay with situations where women have it better than men.

For example, in a hostage situation, or tragic accident it is always "women and children rescued first". Women, make out way better in divorce.

Many feminists criticize men for being shallow and abusive. Yet, women are just as shallow and abusive. Women are just shallow about money and status instead of sex. It seems feminists demonize men for using women for sex, yet are okay with and may even glorify women using men for money.

Women often falsely accuse men of abuse or rape, and can get them imprisoned, ruin there reputation and career (which is just as bad, probably worse than men abusing women).

In this incident a wife in an unhappy marriage cut off her husbands penis. http://en.wikipedia.org... . Feminist groups supported the women. People made jokes and parodied the incident. She was found innocent because of insanity. Imagine if a unhappily married man cut off his wife's breasts or mutilated her genitals. He would regarded as one on the most evil people ever (as he should) and would be convicted for life in jail. This tragic event would devastate the country.

I think in the pasts feminists played a good part in society. However, now feminism tries to make woman better than men, and makes women look week. All these extra advantages and groups confirm the stereotype that woman need extra help to compete with men, and that women are "complainers". There are no popular "men's rights groups". I think women are strong, capable and can play an equal role in society, but, in general, current feminism tries to give women extra advantages, and thus confirms the stereotype that women are week.

Am I right to think this? What are your thoughts on this and feminist movements.
drhead
Posts: 1,475
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2013 3:13:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/19/2013 1:13:54 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
I think, in general, modern day feminists strive to make "women better than men" as opposed to gender equality. Feminists are quick to point out instances where men have it better than women. Yet, are okay with situations where women have it better than men.

Would men have a problem with situations where they are better than women?

For example, in a hostage situation, or tragic accident it is always "women and children rescued first". Women, make out way better in divorce.

Perhaps because men would be more driven to want to rescue women and children as a biological impulse to drive procreation (and possibly mate selection)?

Many feminists criticize men for being shallow and abusive. Yet, women are just as shallow and abusive. Women are just shallow about money and status instead of sex. It seems feminists demonize men for using women for sex, yet are okay with and may even glorify women using men for money.

Assertion.

Women often falsely accuse men of abuse or rape, and can get them imprisoned, ruin there reputation and career (which is just as bad, probably worse than men abusing women).

Assertion.

In this incident a wife in an unhappy marriage cut off her husbands penis. http://en.wikipedia.org... . Feminist groups supported the women. People made jokes and parodied the incident. She was found innocent because of insanity. Imagine if a unhappily married man cut off his wife's breasts or mutilated her genitals. He would regarded as one on the most evil people ever (as he should) and would be convicted for life in jail. This tragic event would devastate the country.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com...

If we're going to pick specific things to support our side, then let's ask Rick Santorum about his opinion:

"The radical feminists succeeded in undermining the traditional family and convincing women that professional accomplishments are the key to happiness. [...] Radical feminists have been making the pitch that justice demands that men and women be given an equal opportunity to make it to the top in the workplace.

"Respect for stay-at-home mothers has been poisoned by a toxic combination of the village elders' war on the traditional family and radical feminism's misogynistic crusade to make working outside the home the only marker of social value and self-respect."

"One of the things I will talk about that no president has talked about before is the dangers of contraception in this country, the whole sexual libertine idea. Many in the Christian faith have said, "Well, that's okay. Contraception's okay." It's not okay because it's a license to do things in the sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be... I'm not running for preacher, I'm not running for pastor, but these are important public policy issues."

I certainly hope that this doesn't represent the entire anti-feminist point of view.

I think in the pasts feminists played a good part in society. However, now feminism tries to make woman better than men, and makes women look week. All these extra advantages and groups confirm the stereotype that woman need extra help to compete with men, and that women are "complainers". There are no popular "men's rights groups". I think women are strong, capable and can play an equal role in society, but, in general, current feminism tries to give women extra advantages, and thus confirms the stereotype that women are week.

And they still make less per hour than men do.

Am I right to think this? What are your thoughts on this and feminist movements.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2013 4:17:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago

Would men have a problem with situations where they are better than women?

There is no mainstream men's rights movement like there are feminist movements. So no, men do not have a problem like women have a problem.


Perhaps because men would be more driven to want to rescue women and children as a biological impulse to drive procreation (and possibly mate selection)?

Perhaps women have the biological impulse to cook and take care of the home? If feminists are going to reject societal rules based on unfavorable impulses, they ought to reject favorable impulses also? Right?

Many feminists criticize men for being shallow and abusive. Yet, women are just as shallow and abusive. Women are just shallow about money and status instead of sex. It seems feminists demonize men for using women for sex, yet are okay with and may even glorify women using men for money.

Assertion.

Women often falsely accuse men of abuse or rape, and can get them imprisoned, ruin there reputation and career (which is just as bad, probably worse than men abusing women).

Assertion.

Do you agree or disagree with my opinion? Why did you label it "assertion"? I understand I am asserting an opinion. Are you undecided? I posted to hear people thoughts, not have people tell me I asserted my opinion, I know I did that.


https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com...

If we're going to pick specific things to support our side, then let's ask Rick Santorum about his opinion:

"The radical feminists succeeded in undermining the traditional family and convincing women that professional accomplishments are the key to happiness. [...] Radical feminists have been making the pitch that justice demands that men and women be given an equal opportunity to make it to the top in the workplace.

"Respect for stay-at-home mothers has been poisoned by a toxic combination of the village elders' war on the traditional family and radical feminism's misogynistic crusade to make working outside the home the only marker of social value and self-respect."

"One of the things I will talk about that no president has talked about before is the dangers of contraception in this country, the whole sexual libertine idea. Many in the Christian faith have said, "Well, that's okay. Contraception's okay." It's not okay because it's a license to do things in the sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be... I'm not running for preacher, I'm not running for pastor, but these are important public policy issues."

I certainly hope that this doesn't represent the entire anti-feminist point of view.

By comparing feminists to Rick Santorum (someone who says that "men are better and should have advantages") Do you concede that mainstream feminists think women are better and should have advantages. I think Rick Santorum is trying to give men advantages. I disagree with him, but he is not hypocritical. Feminists are hypocritical for claiming they strive for equality, when actually they strive to make women better.


And they still make less per hour than men do.

A lot of the pay gap can be described by non-discrimination factors. For example, women are more likely to take time off to have kids, and work part time. Men gain more experience by not taking time off. Also, men can be more focused and work more on their careers because they often have wives that take care of the home.

While sometimes women can get discriminated against. Men also can too. Many companies have employment equity programs and will promote women up over men, to fulfill them. And, will hire women over men to meet requirements.

Am I right to think this? What are your thoughts on this and feminist movements.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2013 7:46:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Oryus, tulle, Danielle, and I have responded to these charges multiple times. Please see the last thread on this topic. I'm sure you won't have to look hard; there is no dearth of misogynistic, sexually frustrated males on this site.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/20/2013 12:51:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think the problem with these threads is how general they all are. Obviously, not all feminists agree with these specific points, so the debate is going to get mired down in discussion over whether or not these are 'feminist ideas'. So why not just discuss the ideas and their merits independent of feminism? I think that everyone would get more out of it.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/20/2013 2:04:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/20/2013 12:51:27 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I think the problem with these threads is how general they all are. Obviously, not all feminists agree with these specific points, so the debate is going to get mired down in discussion over whether or not these are 'feminist ideas'. So why not just discuss the ideas and their merits independent of feminism? I think that everyone would get more out of it.

+1

This is a good video on these kinds of ideas: http://youtu.be...
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/20/2013 4:37:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I thought this was going to be a legitimate inquiry into the general directions taken in modern feminist literature. Nooooooope.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
frankprisb
Posts: 3
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/1/2013 7:35:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/19/2013 1:13:54 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
I think, in general, modern day feminists strive to make "women better than men" as opposed to gender equality. Feminists are quick to point out instances where men have it better than women. Yet, are okay with situations where women have it better than men.

For example, in a hostage situation, or tragic accident it is always "women and children rescued first". Women, make out way better in divorce.

Many feminists criticize men for being shallow and abusive. Yet, women are just as shallow and abusive. Women are just shallow about money and status instead of sex. It seems feminists demonize men for using women for sex, yet are okay with and may even glorify women using men for money.

Women often falsely accuse men of abuse or rape, and can get them imprisoned, ruin there reputation and career (which is just as bad, probably worse than men abusing women).

In this incident a wife in an unhappy marriage cut off her husbands penis. http://en.wikipedia.org... . Feminist groups supported the women. People made jokes and parodied the incident. She was found innocent because of insanity. Imagine if a unhappily married man cut off his wife's breasts or mutilated her genitals. He would regarded as one on the most evil people ever (as he should) and would be convicted for life in jail. This tragic event would devastate the country.

I think in the pasts feminists played a good part in society. However, now feminism tries to make woman better than men, and makes women look week. All these extra advantages and groups confirm the stereotype that woman need extra help to compete with men, and that women are "complainers". There are no popular "men's rights groups". I think women are strong, capable and can play an equal role in society, but, in general, current feminism tries to give women extra advantages, and thus confirms the stereotype that women are week.

Am I right to think this? What are your thoughts on this and feminist movements.

I am assuming that you are a man, if not then, WOW. For your first point, feminist are not trying to make women better than men but I will say in many situations women have to be smarter than men because if they aren't then their intelligence is questioned. Men are already assumed to be smart, women have to prove their intelligence. For your second point women don't point out when other women have it better than men because those situations are very rare in terms of who benefits economically. Does it really make a difference if there is woman who has a high paying corporate job when the majority of the high ranking positions are owned by men, who are the ones who get to make decisions. Somewhat but barely.

Lastly, if you are not already a female, try being one for a week. It will amaze you to find out about all of the crap you don't have to deal with on a daily basis.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/1/2013 8:54:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/1/2013 7:35:19 PM, frankprisb wrote:
At 5/19/2013 1:13:54 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
I think, in general, modern day feminists strive to make "women better than men" as opposed to gender equality. Feminists are quick to point out instances where men have it better than women. Yet, are okay with situations where women have it better than men.

For example, in a hostage situation, or tragic accident it is always "women and children rescued first". Women, make out way better in divorce.

Many feminists criticize men for being shallow and abusive. Yet, women are just as shallow and abusive. Women are just shallow about money and status instead of sex. It seems feminists demonize men for using women for sex, yet are okay with and may even glorify women using men for money.

Women often falsely accuse men of abuse or rape, and can get them imprisoned, ruin there reputation and career (which is just as bad, probably worse than men abusing women).

In this incident a wife in an unhappy marriage cut off her husbands penis. http://en.wikipedia.org... . Feminist groups supported the women. People made jokes and parodied the incident. She was found innocent because of insanity. Imagine if a unhappily married man cut off his wife's breasts or mutilated her genitals. He would regarded as one on the most evil people ever (as he should) and would be convicted for life in jail. This tragic event would devastate the country.

I think in the pasts feminists played a good part in society. However, now feminism tries to make woman better than men, and makes women look week. All these extra advantages and groups confirm the stereotype that woman need extra help to compete with men, and that women are "complainers". There are no popular "men's rights groups". I think women are strong, capable and can play an equal role in society, but, in general, current feminism tries to give women extra advantages, and thus confirms the stereotype that women are week.

Am I right to think this? What are your thoughts on this and feminist movements.

I am assuming that you are a man, if not then, WOW. For your first point, feminist are not trying to make women better than men but I will say in many situations women have to be smarter than men because if they aren't then their intelligence is questioned. Men are already assumed to be smart, women have to prove their intelligence. For your second point women don't point out when other women have it better than men because those situations are very rare in terms of who benefits economically. Does it really make a difference if there is woman who has a high paying corporate job when the majority of the high ranking positions are owned by men, who are the ones who get to make decisions. Somewhat but barely.

Lastly, if you are not already a female, try being one for a week. It will amaze you to find out about all of the crap you don't have to deal with on a daily basis.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Wocambs
Posts: 1,505
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2013 9:08:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Gender equality is not to be achieved by combating disadvantages faced by one gender, however much those disadvantages might outweigh that of the of the others.
Citrakayah
Posts: 1,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2013 10:38:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/19/2013 3:13:10 PM, drhead wrote:
Would men have a problem with situations where they are better than women?

Depends on the man. In my case, yes.

Perhaps because men would be more driven to want to rescue women and children as a biological impulse to drive procreation (and possibly mate selection)?

This is, for the record, nevertheless stupid. I regard it as one of the functions of the strong (not necessarily just the physically strong) to protect the weak. That does include children, but it doesn't include women as a group. Rather, it includes some women and some men. This may be an example of sexism against women, but it is still asserting that in such an instance, a man's life is less valuable than a women's, or at least less important to save.

Traditionally, male gender roles have put men at increased risk as opposed to women in certain areas. For instance, the draft. This isn't some radical so-called 'men's rights' nutcase issue, the National Organization for Women supported the plantiff Goldberg in Rostker v. Goldberg.

The draft is a form of discrimination against men. Does this somehow make any other forms of discrimination less important? No. But I do think that if we're going to be opposed to discrimination, making it so only one half of the country is at the beck and call of politicians to be sent off and die in a stupid war is hardly a minor, trivial issue.

As an admittedly less important issue than only men having to die in a foreign country, I can say from experience that people will not take a male being sexually harassed by a female as seriously as the other way around. In my case people's response as 'You wish'--and before someone asks, her own lawyer didn't believe her when she said that she wasn't stalking me, and I had repeatedly reported it to the authorities. Oh, and her and her buddies cornered me behind a tree and taunted me with sexually explicit... stuff. There is a double standard, both for sexual harassment and rape (http://en.wikipedia.org...).

Oh, and lightning strikes men more often than women? Why? Because the (culturally enforced) myth of malehood is that engaging in certain acts is being a 'sissy'. Acts which apparently include acting sensibly in a thunderstorm.
nikidavis
Posts: 43
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/24/2014 8:56:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/19/2013 1:13:54 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
I think, in general, modern day feminists strive to make "women better than men" as opposed to gender equality. Feminists are quick to point out instances where men have it better than women. Yet, are okay with situations where women have it better than men.
I'm a feminist and I'm going to say what I think on what you said. This is JUST MY thoughts.
I try to have equal opportunities for men and woman. I believe if a woman has it better that the man, than the men should be brought up to the standard as the woman. I believe it should always be equal.
For example, in a hostage situation, or tragic accident it is always "women and children rescued first". Women, make out way better in divorce.
I have never understood that, nor do I support it.
Many feminists criticize men for being shallow and abusive. Yet, women are just as shallow and abusive. Women are just shallow about money and status instead of sex. It seems feminists demonize men for using women for sex, yet are okay with and may even glorify women using men for money.
I criticize people for being abusive, IF THEY ARE ABUSIVE, male or female.
Women often falsely accuse men of abuse or rape, and can get them imprisoned, ruin there reputation and career (which is just as bad, probably worse than men abusing women).
i think that is just horrible.
In this incident a wife in an unhappy marriage cut off her husbands penis. http://en.wikipedia.org... . Feminist groups supported the women. People made jokes and parodied the incident. She was found innocent because of insanity. Imagine if a unhappily married man cut off his wife's breasts or mutilated her genitals. He would regarded as one on the most evil people ever (as he should) and would be convicted for life in jail. This tragic event would devastate the country.
I also think this is horrible, and should never be condoned
I think in the pasts feminists played a good part in society. However, now feminism tries to make woman better than men, and makes women look week. All these extra advantages and groups confirm the stereotype that woman need extra help to compete with men, and that women are "complainers". There are no popular "men's rights groups". I think women are strong, capable and can play an equal role in society, but, in general, current feminism tries to give women extra advantages, and thus confirms the stereotype that women are week.
I somewhat agree.
Am I right to think this? What are your thoughts on this and feminist movements.
One day I saw a man walking down the street, and he walked up to me and said, "Did you know that humans are the only species who tear down trees to make paper, and then write 'save the trees!' on them." I was amazed, then everyone else looked at him and glared with annoyance. I was the only one that actually cared, about the trees, about the man, about the world.
YYW
Posts: 36,242
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/24/2014 10:37:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/19/2013 1:13:54 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
I think, in general, modern day feminists strive to make "women better than men" as opposed to gender equality. Feminists are quick to point out instances where men have it better than women. Yet, are okay with situations where women have it better than men.

Nothing above this sentence is the case.

For example, in a hostage situation, or tragic accident it is always "women and children rescued first". Women, make out way better in divorce.

Perhaps, but not necessarily.

Many feminists criticize men for being shallow and abusive. Yet, women are just as shallow and abusive. Women are just shallow about money and status instead of sex. It seems feminists demonize men for using women for sex, yet are okay with and may even glorify women using men for money.

Perhaps but not necessarily, and that third sentence is not the case.

Women often falsely accuse men of abuse or rape, and can get them imprisoned, ruin there reputation and career (which is just as bad, probably worse than men abusing women).

That has nothing to do with feminism.

In this incident a wife in an unhappy marriage cut off her husbands penis. http://en.wikipedia.org... . Feminist groups supported the women. People made jokes and parodied the incident. She was found innocent because of insanity. Imagine if a unhappily married man cut off his wife's breasts or mutilated her genitals. He would regarded as one on the most evil people ever (as he should) and would be convicted for life in jail. This tragic event would devastate the country.

That's vile, disgusting, and irrelevant to feminism or its impact on gender equality.

I think in the pasts feminists played a good part in society. However, now feminism tries to make woman better than men, and makes women look week. All these extra advantages and groups confirm the stereotype that woman need extra help to compete with men, and that women are "complainers". There are no popular "men's rights groups". I think women are strong, capable and can play an equal role in society, but, in general, current feminism tries to give women extra advantages, and thus confirms the stereotype that women are week.

Feminism does not elevate women over men. Second wave feminism, however, did measure womanhood against masculine gender norms -and probably at women's expense. Of course there are no "mens rights" groups, because there is no history of discrimination against men. It speaks volumes of men's collective insecurity that some men should even think such a group ought to exist. (I suspect it's because they have small penises, but whenever a man behaves petulantly, I tend to think it's because he's got a three or four inch cock.)

Am I right to think this? What are your thoughts on this and feminist movements.

I think you've learned a bit about feminism and you don't understand it, so you're reacting against it because it makes you uncomfortable. That's ok, but there really isn't anything especially profound you've said here. I would encourage you to read more into feminism before forming an opinion of it.
jaksunmadness
Posts: 43
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2014 12:11:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Agreement on everything you said. As long as women keep playing this double standard game, running behind the law and the traditional patriarchal protection to women when things get hairy (which is a system meant to protect women as they were deemed weak and vulnerable back then) and when everything comes into order again they start demanding they be given bigger shares of the pie because they are just as good as men if not better even if they don't deserve it.

This is exactly one of the reasons I wish there was a violent civil war or at least a zombie apocalypse. Only with war do people stop acting all uppity and haughty for things they did not even attain.
Wocambs
Posts: 1,505
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/2/2014 10:07:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Man, woman - who really gives a sh*t, or ought to, at least.

Some people are born with penises, others vaginas. For some reason an unendingly childish debate has arisen regarding this mundane occurrence. We have even developed highly detailed and religious ideas about what each group of people ought to and ought not do - because of what's between their legs. If you want the genders to be equal, why do you even want 'gender' to exist? Why should anyone have to wonder if their behaviour conforms to a completely imaginary standard?

Obviously biological sex is a fact, but I'm not talking about that.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/8/2014 6:58:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago

Feminism does not elevate women over men. Second wave feminism, however, did measure womanhood against masculine gender norms -and probably at women's expense. Of course there are no "mens rights" groups, because there is no history of discrimination against men. It speaks volumes of men's collective insecurity that some men should even think such a group ought to exist. (I suspect it's because they have small penises, but whenever a man behaves petulantly, I tend to think it's because he's got a three or four inch cock.)


I think you've learned a bit about feminism and you don't understand it, so you're reacting against it because it makes you uncomfortable. That's ok, but there really isn't anything especially profound you've said here. I would encourage you to read more into feminism before forming an opinion of it.

I think feminism is kinda like a religion. Everyone has their own version of it and idea of what it is, and the more into feminism someone is the better chance they have at being a crazy person.

For example, to me feminism means fighting for women's right in the middle east and africa. Women there are definitely discriminated against. I find most feminists in the USA, to be a bit crazy, like a crazy religious person. It makes them feel good having a cause and all, but they are bananas.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/10/2014 12:21:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/2/2014 10:07:56 PM, Wocambs wrote:
Man, woman - who really gives a sh*t, or ought to, at least.

Some people are born with penises, others vaginas. For some reason an unendingly childish debate has arisen regarding this mundane occurrence. We have even developed highly detailed and religious ideas about what each group of people ought to and ought not do - because of what's between their legs. If you want the genders to be equal, why do you even want 'gender' to exist? Why should anyone have to wonder if their behaviour conforms to a completely imaginary standard?

Obviously biological sex is a fact, but I'm not talking about that.

I think gender abolition walks a fine line between forming a coherent critique of gender roles and alienating (marginalized) gender identities i.e., transwomen, etc. Gender roles =/= gender identity.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
YYW
Posts: 36,242
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/10/2014 12:26:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/10/2014 12:21:14 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/2/2014 10:07:56 PM, Wocambs wrote:
Man, woman - who really gives a sh*t, or ought to, at least.

Some people are born with penises, others vaginas. For some reason an unendingly childish debate has arisen regarding this mundane occurrence. We have even developed highly detailed and religious ideas about what each group of people ought to and ought not do - because of what's between their legs. If you want the genders to be equal, why do you even want 'gender' to exist? Why should anyone have to wonder if their behaviour conforms to a completely imaginary standard?

Obviously biological sex is a fact, but I'm not talking about that.

I think gender abolition walks a fine line between forming a coherent critique of gender roles and alienating (marginalized) gender identities i.e., transwomen, etc. Gender roles =/= gender identity.

I think yours is an entirely conventional, perfectly "middle of the road" approach that's at the same time entirely too intellectually jaded for an undergrad to hold.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/10/2014 12:27:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/10/2014 12:26:59 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:21:14 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/2/2014 10:07:56 PM, Wocambs wrote:
Man, woman - who really gives a sh*t, or ought to, at least.

Some people are born with penises, others vaginas. For some reason an unendingly childish debate has arisen regarding this mundane occurrence. We have even developed highly detailed and religious ideas about what each group of people ought to and ought not do - because of what's between their legs. If you want the genders to be equal, why do you even want 'gender' to exist? Why should anyone have to wonder if their behaviour conforms to a completely imaginary standard?

Obviously biological sex is a fact, but I'm not talking about that.

I think gender abolition walks a fine line between forming a coherent critique of gender roles and alienating (marginalized) gender identities i.e., transwomen, etc. Gender roles =/= gender identity.

I think yours is an entirely conventional, perfectly "middle of the road" approach that's at the same time entirely too intellectually jaded for an undergrad to hold.

What would you prefer?
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
YYW
Posts: 36,242
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/10/2014 12:32:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/10/2014 12:27:55 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:26:59 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:21:14 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/2/2014 10:07:56 PM, Wocambs wrote:
Man, woman - who really gives a sh*t, or ought to, at least.

Some people are born with penises, others vaginas. For some reason an unendingly childish debate has arisen regarding this mundane occurrence. We have even developed highly detailed and religious ideas about what each group of people ought to and ought not do - because of what's between their legs. If you want the genders to be equal, why do you even want 'gender' to exist? Why should anyone have to wonder if their behaviour conforms to a completely imaginary standard?

Obviously biological sex is a fact, but I'm not talking about that.

I think gender abolition walks a fine line between forming a coherent critique of gender roles and alienating (marginalized) gender identities i.e., transwomen, etc. Gender roles =/= gender identity.

I think yours is an entirely conventional, perfectly "middle of the road" approach that's at the same time entirely too intellectually jaded for an undergrad to hold.

What would you prefer?

lol, I'm just fvcking with you.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/10/2014 12:33:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/10/2014 12:32:16 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:27:55 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:26:59 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:21:14 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/2/2014 10:07:56 PM, Wocambs wrote:
Man, woman - who really gives a sh*t, or ought to, at least.

Some people are born with penises, others vaginas. For some reason an unendingly childish debate has arisen regarding this mundane occurrence. We have even developed highly detailed and religious ideas about what each group of people ought to and ought not do - because of what's between their legs. If you want the genders to be equal, why do you even want 'gender' to exist? Why should anyone have to wonder if their behaviour conforms to a completely imaginary standard?

Obviously biological sex is a fact, but I'm not talking about that.

I think gender abolition walks a fine line between forming a coherent critique of gender roles and alienating (marginalized) gender identities i.e., transwomen, etc. Gender roles =/= gender identity.

I think yours is an entirely conventional, perfectly "middle of the road" approach that's at the same time entirely too intellectually jaded for an undergrad to hold.

What would you prefer?

lol, I'm just fvcking with you.

Did you think calling me "middle of the road" would grind my gears?
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
YYW
Posts: 36,242
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/10/2014 12:33:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/10/2014 12:33:14 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:32:16 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:27:55 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:26:59 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:21:14 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/2/2014 10:07:56 PM, Wocambs wrote:
Man, woman - who really gives a sh*t, or ought to, at least.

Some people are born with penises, others vaginas. For some reason an unendingly childish debate has arisen regarding this mundane occurrence. We have even developed highly detailed and religious ideas about what each group of people ought to and ought not do - because of what's between their legs. If you want the genders to be equal, why do you even want 'gender' to exist? Why should anyone have to wonder if their behaviour conforms to a completely imaginary standard?

Obviously biological sex is a fact, but I'm not talking about that.

I think gender abolition walks a fine line between forming a coherent critique of gender roles and alienating (marginalized) gender identities i.e., transwomen, etc. Gender roles =/= gender identity.

I think yours is an entirely conventional, perfectly "middle of the road" approach that's at the same time entirely too intellectually jaded for an undergrad to hold.

What would you prefer?

lol, I'm just fvcking with you.

Did you think calling me "middle of the road" would grind my gears?

Yes.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/10/2014 12:35:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/10/2014 12:33:34 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:33:14 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:32:16 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:27:55 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:26:59 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:21:14 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/2/2014 10:07:56 PM, Wocambs wrote:
Man, woman - who really gives a sh*t, or ought to, at least.

Some people are born with penises, others vaginas. For some reason an unendingly childish debate has arisen regarding this mundane occurrence. We have even developed highly detailed and religious ideas about what each group of people ought to and ought not do - because of what's between their legs. If you want the genders to be equal, why do you even want 'gender' to exist? Why should anyone have to wonder if their behaviour conforms to a completely imaginary standard?

Obviously biological sex is a fact, but I'm not talking about that.

I think gender abolition walks a fine line between forming a coherent critique of gender roles and alienating (marginalized) gender identities i.e., transwomen, etc. Gender roles =/= gender identity.

I think yours is an entirely conventional, perfectly "middle of the road" approach that's at the same time entirely too intellectually jaded for an undergrad to hold.

What would you prefer?

lol, I'm just fvcking with you.

Did you think calling me "middle of the road" would grind my gears?

Yes.

Well it did and I'm hurt and I expect a written apology by Friday. A complimentary copy of The German Ideology would also help with the pain you've caused.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
YYW
Posts: 36,242
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/10/2014 12:42:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/10/2014 12:35:45 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:33:34 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:33:14 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:32:16 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:27:55 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:26:59 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:21:14 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/2/2014 10:07:56 PM, Wocambs wrote:
Man, woman - who really gives a sh*t, or ought to, at least.

Some people are born with penises, others vaginas. For some reason an unendingly childish debate has arisen regarding this mundane occurrence. We have even developed highly detailed and religious ideas about what each group of people ought to and ought not do - because of what's between their legs. If you want the genders to be equal, why do you even want 'gender' to exist? Why should anyone have to wonder if their behaviour conforms to a completely imaginary standard?

Obviously biological sex is a fact, but I'm not talking about that.

I think gender abolition walks a fine line between forming a coherent critique of gender roles and alienating (marginalized) gender identities i.e., transwomen, etc. Gender roles =/= gender identity.

I think yours is an entirely conventional, perfectly "middle of the road" approach that's at the same time entirely too intellectually jaded for an undergrad to hold.

What would you prefer?

lol, I'm just fvcking with you.

Did you think calling me "middle of the road" would grind my gears?

Yes.

Well it did and I'm hurt and I expect a written apology by Friday.

I am so tempted to post a link to the music of Rick Astley right now, but I'll post something worthwhile instead:

https://www.youtube.com...

But seriously, all in good fun, though.

A complimentary copy of The German Ideology would also help with the pain you've caused.

http://www.marxists.org...
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/10/2014 12:44:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/10/2014 12:42:23 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:35:45 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:33:34 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:33:14 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:32:16 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:27:55 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:26:59 AM, YYW wrote:
At 4/10/2014 12:21:14 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/2/2014 10:07:56 PM, Wocambs wrote:
Man, woman - who really gives a sh*t, or ought to, at least.

Some people are born with penises, others vaginas. For some reason an unendingly childish debate has arisen regarding this mundane occurrence. We have even developed highly detailed and religious ideas about what each group of people ought to and ought not do - because of what's between their legs. If you want the genders to be equal, why do you even want 'gender' to exist? Why should anyone have to wonder if their behaviour conforms to a completely imaginary standard?

Obviously biological sex is a fact, but I'm not talking about that.

I think gender abolition walks a fine line between forming a coherent critique of gender roles and alienating (marginalized) gender identities i.e., transwomen, etc. Gender roles =/= gender identity.

I think yours is an entirely conventional, perfectly "middle of the road" approach that's at the same time entirely too intellectually jaded for an undergrad to hold.

What would you prefer?

lol, I'm just fvcking with you.

Did you think calling me "middle of the road" would grind my gears?

Yes.

Well it did and I'm hurt and I expect a written apology by Friday.

I am so tempted to post a link to the music of Rick Astley right now, but I'll post something worthwhile instead:

https://www.youtube.com...

But seriously, all in good fun, though.

http://i.imgur.com...

A complimentary copy of The German Ideology would also help with the pain you've caused.

http://www.marxists.org...

I'm really not Marxist enough to spend as much time on that site as I do.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Wocambs
Posts: 1,505
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/10/2014 12:45:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/10/2014 12:21:14 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 4/2/2014 10:07:56 PM, Wocambs wrote:
Man, woman - who really gives a sh*t, or ought to, at least.

Some people are born with penises, others vaginas. For some reason an unendingly childish debate has arisen regarding this mundane occurrence. We have even developed highly detailed and religious ideas about what each group of people ought to and ought not do - because of what's between their legs. If you want the genders to be equal, why do you even want 'gender' to exist? Why should anyone have to wonder if their behaviour conforms to a completely imaginary standard?

Obviously biological sex is a fact, but I'm not talking about that.

I think gender abolition walks a fine line between forming a coherent critique of gender roles and alienating (marginalized) gender identities i.e., transwomen, etc. Gender roles =/= gender identity.

Regardless of whether they are as separate as you claim them to be I don't see a reason for either to exist. Do I lack imagination?
OliveJuice
Posts: 23
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/13/2014 3:50:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/19/2013 1:13:54 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Women often falsely accuse men of abuse or rape, and can get them imprisoned, ruin there reputation and career (which is just as bad, probably worse than men abusing women).

While I do not think that "often" is the correct word choice, I have actually witnessed this happening and it is disgusting. I also disagree with what you noted about the act of claiming that you were raped when you were not being worse than the event of raping someone. Both are equally as destructive and immoral; the difference is that one directly and physically harms a person while the other revokes a human's rights in relation to life and justice. There definitely needs to be much more improvement in this area of justice and legal matters.

I think in the pasts feminists played a good part in society. However, now feminism tries to make woman better than men, and makes women look week [sic]. All these extra advantages and groups confirm the stereotype that woman need extra help to compete with men, and that women are "complainers". There are no popular "men's rights groups". I think women are strong, capable and can play an equal role in society, but, in general, current feminism tries to give women extra advantages, and thus confirms the stereotype that women are week [sic].

This is a very logical and valid statement. I think that the initial ignorance lies at the hands of the general population rather than any groups in particular. People generally want to participate in beneficial groups and causes, but they do not do their own research or think for themselves. Plus, it is possible to take part in societal change without being an advocate for a particular group.

Am I right to think this? What are your thoughts on this and feminist movements.

While I think that you are correct in that there are way too many feminists that cannot seem to grasp the idea of gender equality, I believe that it is wrong to assume that they are all that way. In my personal experience, there actually seems to be a growing number of feminists that are pushing for legitimate equality and calling out these poorly mistaken feminists but they are being ignored due to the fact that there are so many people that are 1) entirely disregarding them because they are labeled as feminists and/or 2) sexist (in either direction: male or female) and out-spoken idiots that are self-proclaimed feminists. However, an idea cannot be blamed for its audience's actions; maybe the feminist movement is not at fault, but rather the bigoted idiots in the world that have all the rights in the world to 'join a cause,' and make it what they wish. This is exactly how ideas evolve and expand both positively and negatively.
.Innocence is news to me.