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Indian Hospital Murders Girl to Harvest Organ

royalpaladin
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5/21/2013 10:06:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Sikh-Briton Schoolgirl Killed in Indian Hospital For Her Organs:
She Fell Ill on Holiday
HARRIET ARKELL

The parents of a schoolgirl who died after seeking treatment for dehydration during a family holiday to India have called for her organs to be returned to the UK so they can rule out foul play.

Eight-year-old Gurkiren Kaur Loyal, from Birmingham, United Kingdom, died in an Indian on April 2, 2013, after being admitted to a nearby clinic suffering from mild dehydration and being given a mystery injection.

Aware of the risk of illegal organ harvesting, her relatives say they guarded her body so her organs could not be taken in time to be transplanted.

But they claim that doctors in India later removed her organs to hide the cause of the schoolgirl's death.

Gurkiren's family believe their daughter was the victim of a failed attempt to illegally harvest her organs, and then a cover-up when medics realised they could not extract her organs in time.

Mother Amrit Kaur says they only discovered Gurkiren's organs were missing when her body was flown home to the UK and the Birmingham coroner told them it would be impossible to establish a cause of death because there were no organs to take samples from.

Now the schoolgirl's parents, who live in the Birmingham suburb of Hockley, are calling for their daughter's organs to be flown back to the UK so they can discover how she died.

And they have been joined in their campaign by Birmingham Ladywood MP Shabana Mahmood and Birmingham councillor Narinder Kooner.

They say subsequent to their daughter's death on the family holiday, the Indian police and medical authorities made little attempt to investigate.

Shop assistant Amrit Kaur said: 'Gurkiren was fine, she was chatting to us and planned to buy some gifts for her cousins. While we were talking an assistant came up carrying a pre-filled syringe and reached for the tube in her hand.

'I asked what was the injection for, but he gave me a blank look and injected the liquid into her.

'Within a split-second Gurkiren's head flipped back, her eyes rolled in her head, and the colour completely drained from her. I knew they had killed her on the spot.

'I knew my innocent child had been murdered.'

Their local councillor in Birmingham, Mrs Kooner, said it was 'highly probable' that the child had been killed in a bid to harvest her organs.

She said: 'People with money pay for transplant organs to help their family members who are sick,' she said.

'We are trying to build a portfolio of other cases.

'This was an absolutely horrific ordeal for the family to go through and we are trying to work with the Foreign Office and the Indian High Commission to try to get her organs returned.'

Gurkiren, a bright and bubbly pupil at Nishkam School in Handsworth, was on her first foreign holiday visiting her frail grandmother, who later died, over the Easter break.

Her family said she was taken to a clinic after being sick, but was placed on a drip after blood tests revealed she was free of infection.

Under pressure to help the schoolgirl after the injection was given, medics transferred her to a nearby hospital but she could not be saved.

Mrs Amrit Kaur, who was on the trip with her postal worker husband Santokh Singh Loyal and 17-year-old son Simran Singh, claimed Gurkiren's medical records were disposed of and the family were not asked to pay for the blood tests, drip or the injection she received.

Police took a statement but the family said they obtained no evidence that Gurkiren's death was investigated.

Mrs Amrit Kaur said she was then told a post-mortem examination would be required in India before her daughter's body could be returned to the UK.

'They said they would use a hammer and chisel to open her,' she said. 'I demanded a more dignified, discreet examination.'

Eventually, having kept watch over Gurkiren's body to prevent evidence being destroyed, they were given assurances that a respectful autopsy would be carried out.

But, returning to the mortuary, Amrit said they found her daughter's bloodstained and ripped clothes by an incinerator and that the post-mortem examination had been carried out by a non-qualified junior.

'It was medieval,' she said. After chasing up death certificates, they had Gurkiren's body flown home and a post-mortem in the UK examination was ordered.

But Mrs Amrit Kaur said their hopes of finding out what killed their daughter were shattered in a call from Birmingham coroner Aidan Cotter.

'He said it was impossible to come to a conclusion for the cause of death,' she said. 'They had nothing to work from, she had no organs in her body for them to take samples.

'I was mortified that all the pleading in India had no effect.

'There was no sensitivity, no humanity.'

The Foreign Office said: 'We can confirm the death of a British national in [India] on April 2, 2013. We provided consular assistance to the family at this difficult time.'

A spokeswoman for the Birmingham coroner said an inquest had been opened and adjourned as staff awaited further information and, possibly, the return of organs from India.

She said: 'A post-mortem examination was carried out, but we were unable to ascertain a cause of death. We are doing everything we can to help the family.'

There is a thriving and lucrative underground market for human organs in India, where in 2007, Ravindranath Seppan of the Chennai Doctors' Association for Social Equality, admitted: 'India's rich are turning to India's poor to live longer.'

He said the commercial trade of human organs remained big business, despite having been banned in 1994.

Ladywood MP Shabana Mahmood said: 'This is a deeply shocking and devastating tragedy.

'Gurkiren's death, and the failure of the Indian authorities and the British High Commission to provide adequate support to the family, has added to their considerable distress - as has the appalling removal of all of her organs.

'I have raised this matter urgently with ministers at the Foreign Office seeking their support in ensuring Gurkiren's organs are returned to her family.

'It is imperative that we have the chance to independently establish the cause of death with the authorities in the UK.'
Lordknukle
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5/22/2013 8:26:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Half way through the article, I'm not actually seeing any evidence for organ harvesting. The family merely believes that that is what killed their daughter. Then again, I may be wrong because this is a long as$ article and I don't feel like reading all of it.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
drhead
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5/22/2013 8:19:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This explains why healthcare is so cheap in India...
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
wrichcirw
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5/23/2013 8:49:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Source, otherwise this is plagiarism. It is not hard to do, you are looking at the article already, and it makes your point more valid.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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5/23/2013 8:54:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/22/2013 8:19:39 PM, drhead wrote:
This explains why healthcare is so cheap in India...

Umm... Healthcare isnt cheap in India.
drhead
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5/23/2013 10:53:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/23/2013 8:54:14 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/22/2013 8:19:39 PM, drhead wrote:
This explains why healthcare is so cheap in India...

Umm... Healthcare isnt cheap in India.

Umm, yeah, it is.

http://healthland.time.com...

Appendectomy in the US: $13,000
Appendectomy in India: $254
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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5/23/2013 11:10:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/23/2013 10:53:34 AM, drhead wrote:
At 5/23/2013 8:54:14 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/22/2013 8:19:39 PM, drhead wrote:
This explains why healthcare is so cheap in India...

Umm... Healthcare isnt cheap in India.

Umm, yeah, it is.

http://healthland.time.com...

Appendectomy in the US: $13,000
Appendectomy in India: $254

That doesn't tell us anything. You are converting Rs. Into USD based on exchange rate, not purchasing power parity, which is severely misleading. For a better analysis, actual value of apendectomy in India would be around 254$ * 56 divided by 20. 1$ = 56 rs based on exchange rate. 1 $ = 20 rs. based on PPP ( the last time I checked).

Secondly, what would be a better measure to gauge the actual cost would be the relative cost. I.e the cost of surgery as a proportion of total income. The per capita income of India is a fraction of that of US. Plus, the cost of surgery in India has to be, more often than not, be borne as an out of pocket expense, considering that the insurance market is essentially non existant. That obviously pushes up the actual cost.

There would be no market of appendectomy in India if it were to cost 13000$. The cost in both the countries is very high compared to the average income level.
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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5/23/2013 1:45:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/23/2013 11:10:51 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/23/2013 10:53:34 AM, drhead wrote:
At 5/23/2013 8:54:14 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/22/2013 8:19:39 PM, drhead wrote:
This explains why healthcare is so cheap in India...

Umm... Healthcare isnt cheap in India.

Umm, yeah, it is.

http://healthland.time.com...

Appendectomy in the US: $13,000
Appendectomy in India: $254

That doesn't tell us anything. You are converting Rs. Into USD based on exchange rate, not purchasing power parity, which is severely misleading. For a better analysis, actual value of apendectomy in India would be around 254$ * 56 divided by 20. 1$ = 56 rs based on exchange rate. 1 $ = 20 rs. based on PPP ( the last time I checked).

Secondly, what would be a better measure to gauge the actual cost would be the relative cost. I.e the cost of surgery as a proportion of total income. The per capita income of India is a fraction of that of US. Plus, the cost of surgery in India has to be, more often than not, be borne as an out of pocket expense, considering that the insurance market is essentially non existant. That obviously pushes up the actual cost.

There would be no market of appendectomy in India if it were to cost 13000$. The cost in both the countries is very high compared to the average income level.

It is still cheap to us. Some people actually go to India for expensive operations to save money.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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5/23/2013 8:30:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/23/2013 1:45:08 PM, drhead wrote:
At 5/23/2013 11:10:51 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/23/2013 10:53:34 AM, drhead wrote:
At 5/23/2013 8:54:14 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/22/2013 8:19:39 PM, drhead wrote:
This explains why healthcare is so cheap in India...

Umm... Healthcare isnt cheap in India.

Umm, yeah, it is.

http://healthland.time.com...

Appendectomy in the US: $13,000
Appendectomy in India: $254

That doesn't tell us anything. You are converting Rs. Into USD based on exchange rate, not purchasing power parity, which is severely misleading. For a better analysis, actual value of apendectomy in India would be around 254$ * 56 divided by 20. 1$ = 56 rs based on exchange rate. 1 $ = 20 rs. based on PPP ( the last time I checked).

Secondly, what would be a better measure to gauge the actual cost would be the relative cost. I.e the cost of surgery as a proportion of total income. The per capita income of India is a fraction of that of US. Plus, the cost of surgery in India has to be, more often than not, be borne as an out of pocket expense, considering that the insurance market is essentially non existant. That obviously pushes up the actual cost.

There would be no market of appendectomy in India if it were to cost 13000$. The cost in both the countries is very high compared to the average income level.

It is still cheap to us. Some people actually go to India for expensive operations to save money.

Which is fine, except it doesn't support the point you initially set out to make.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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5/24/2013 6:11:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/23/2013 8:49:59 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
Source, otherwise this is plagiarism. It is not hard to do, you are looking at the article already, and it makes your point more valid.

It's not plagiarism because I cited the author; it's just improper citation. It doesn't even matter in any case insofar as this is not an academic work, but rather than informal forum post.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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5/24/2013 2:21:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/24/2013 6:11:57 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 5/23/2013 8:49:59 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
Source, otherwise this is plagiarism. It is not hard to do, you are looking at the article already, and it makes your point more valid.

It's not plagiarism because I cited the author; it's just improper citation. It doesn't even matter in any case insofar as this is not an academic work, but rather than informal forum post.

Then you should have linked something more substantive. Why should we care about a random forum post somewhere on an issue like this? Why should we think it has validity? Because you say so?

You would think something like this would get a LOT of press. Before I commented on this I had found it already on the UK telegraph:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,074
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5/24/2013 2:51:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Jesus F*cking Christ!

Don't you live in India, royal? How can you feel safe there?

How common is this sort of thing, for that matter?
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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5/24/2013 3:22:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/23/2013 11:10:51 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/23/2013 10:53:34 AM, drhead wrote:
At 5/23/2013 8:54:14 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/22/2013 8:19:39 PM, drhead wrote:
This explains why healthcare is so cheap in India...

Umm... Healthcare isnt cheap in India.

Umm, yeah, it is.

http://healthland.time.com...

Appendectomy in the US: $13,000
Appendectomy in India: $254

That doesn't tell us anything. You are converting Rs. Into USD based on exchange rate, not purchasing power parity, which is severely misleading. For a better analysis, actual value of apendectomy in India would be around 254$ * 56 divided by 20. 1$ = 56 rs based on exchange rate. 1 $ = 20 rs. based on PPP ( the last time I checked).

Secondly, what would be a better measure to gauge the actual cost would be the relative cost. I.e the cost of surgery as a proportion of total income. The per capita income of India is a fraction of that of US. Plus, the cost of surgery in India has to be, more often than not, be borne as an out of pocket expense, considering that the insurance market is essentially non existant. That obviously pushes up the actual cost.

There would be no market of appendectomy in India if it were to cost 13000$. The cost in both the countries is very high compared to the average income level.

Regardless, someone from a high PPP country could go to India and get an extremely cheap medical operation.

We outsource all kinds of stuff to the developing world, there's no reason to think that (important) ceteris paribus, we would not do the same with high-value services like medical operations. Of course the problem is that ceteris paribus is generally not applicable...poorer hospital conditions, sanitary risks, lower quality levels, legality concerns, etc...

Indian doctors also make 10-20% of what American doctors make. The good doctors who study in the states, stay in the states. Those who can't go back to their respective countries. The financial incentive is simply too great.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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5/24/2013 10:19:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/24/2013 2:51:19 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Jesus F*cking Christ!

Don't you live in India, royal?
No
How can you feel safe there?

I've visited India. It's really not safe at all. I've hated every moment of staying there, but I have to put up with it as long as my parents are supporting me. Once I'm done with college, I won't ever go back.
How common is this sort of thing, for that matter?
I have no idea, but I did read comments that suggested that there was a similar case involving a teenaged boy whose home country was Chile.
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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5/24/2013 11:09:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/24/2013 3:22:44 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 5/23/2013 11:10:51 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/23/2013 10:53:34 AM, drhead wrote:
At 5/23/2013 8:54:14 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/22/2013 8:19:39 PM, drhead wrote:
This explains why healthcare is so cheap in India...

Umm... Healthcare isnt cheap in India.

Umm, yeah, it is.

http://healthland.time.com...

Appendectomy in the US: $13,000
Appendectomy in India: $254

That doesn't tell us anything. You are converting Rs. Into USD based on exchange rate, not purchasing power parity, which is severely misleading. For a better analysis, actual value of apendectomy in India would be around 254$ * 56 divided by 20. 1$ = 56 rs based on exchange rate. 1 $ = 20 rs. based on PPP ( the last time I checked).

Secondly, what would be a better measure to gauge the actual cost would be the relative cost. I.e the cost of surgery as a proportion of total income. The per capita income of India is a fraction of that of US. Plus, the cost of surgery in India has to be, more often than not, be borne as an out of pocket expense, considering that the insurance market is essentially non existant. That obviously pushes up the actual cost.

There would be no market of appendectomy in India if it were to cost 13000$. The cost in both the countries is very high compared to the average income level.

Regardless, someone from a high PPP country could go to India and get an extremely cheap medical operation.

We outsource all kinds of stuff to the developing world, there's no reason to think that (important) ceteris paribus, we would not do the same with high-value services like medical operations. Of course the problem is that ceteris paribus is generally not applicable...poorer hospital conditions, sanitary risks, lower quality levels, legality concerns, etc...

Indian doctors also make 10-20% of what American doctors make. The good doctors who study in the states, stay in the states. Those who can't go back to their respective countries. The financial incentive is simply too great.

That's partially true. The point was, drhead was implying that the cost of healthcare in India was low because doctors could recoup the costs through organ stealing. Its not true. Cost of healthcare is very high for Indians.

Yes, a lot of doctors who study in the states stay in the states. But it would be fallacious to assume that its due to the financial incentive. People love to convert their income jn dollars to rupees and that IS a lot, but then the cost structure is similarly high. A can of Pepsi in US costs as much as a top in India. Like, that has to be taken into account. Outsourcing is cool, because then you get paid in dollars and spend jn rupees, so you get the best of both worlds.

People stay in US because the technological advent there is ahead of that in India, and that the possibility of research is really high there. The incentive for research is high.

Else, doctors are the highest paid officials in both the respective countries.
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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5/25/2013 12:06:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/24/2013 11:09:30 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/24/2013 3:22:44 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 5/23/2013 11:10:51 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/23/2013 10:53:34 AM, drhead wrote:
At 5/23/2013 8:54:14 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/22/2013 8:19:39 PM, drhead wrote:
This explains why healthcare is so cheap in India...

Umm... Healthcare isnt cheap in India.

Umm, yeah, it is.

http://healthland.time.com...

Appendectomy in the US: $13,000
Appendectomy in India: $254

That doesn't tell us anything. You are converting Rs. Into USD based on exchange rate, not purchasing power parity, which is severely misleading. For a better analysis, actual value of apendectomy in India would be around 254$ * 56 divided by 20. 1$ = 56 rs based on exchange rate. 1 $ = 20 rs. based on PPP ( the last time I checked).

Secondly, what would be a better measure to gauge the actual cost would be the relative cost. I.e the cost of surgery as a proportion of total income. The per capita income of India is a fraction of that of US. Plus, the cost of surgery in India has to be, more often than not, be borne as an out of pocket expense, considering that the insurance market is essentially non existant. That obviously pushes up the actual cost.

There would be no market of appendectomy in India if it were to cost 13000$. The cost in both the countries is very high compared to the average income level.

Regardless, someone from a high PPP country could go to India and get an extremely cheap medical operation.

We outsource all kinds of stuff to the developing world, there's no reason to think that (important) ceteris paribus, we would not do the same with high-value services like medical operations. Of course the problem is that ceteris paribus is generally not applicable...poorer hospital conditions, sanitary risks, lower quality levels, legality concerns, etc...

Indian doctors also make 10-20% of what American doctors make. The good doctors who study in the states, stay in the states. Those who can't go back to their respective countries. The financial incentive is simply too great.

That's partially true. The point was, drhead was implying that the cost of healthcare in India was low because doctors could recoup the costs through organ stealing. Its not true. Cost of healthcare is very high for Indians.

Yes, a lot of doctors who study in the states stay in the states. But it would be fallacious to assume that its due to the financial incentive. People love to convert their income jn dollars to rupees and that IS a lot, but then the cost structure is similarly high. A can of Pepsi in US costs as much as a top in India. Like, that has to be taken into account. Outsourcing is cool, because then you get paid in dollars and spend jn rupees, so you get the best of both worlds.

People stay in US because the technological advent there is ahead of that in India, and that the possibility of research is really high there. The incentive for research is high.

Else, doctors are the highest paid officials in both the respective countries.

My remark was more of a joke, but okay.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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5/26/2013 12:55:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/24/2013 11:09:30 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/24/2013 3:22:44 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 5/23/2013 11:10:51 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/23/2013 10:53:34 AM, drhead wrote:

That's partially true. The point was, drhead was implying that the cost of healthcare in India was low because doctors could recoup the costs through organ stealing. Its not true. Cost of healthcare is very high for Indians.

I would argue he is correct to some extent.

If organ harvesting was institutionalized/systematized, then a couple thousand dollars here and there could easily pay for several nurses over several years. They could pay for renovations to the hospital. Or, if they are simply self-serving bastards/bitches, they would buy a new BMW with just 10 or so such "patients", if even that. A BMW is worth more money than an average laborer would earn in a lifetime. A kidney, heart, and liver could pay for a house, a child's education (in America), some amazing gold jewelry for the spouse. This is only because of the dramatic PPP differences between countries like India and the developed world.

Yes, a lot of doctors who study in the states stay in the states. But it would be fallacious to assume that its due to the financial incentive. People love to convert their income jn dollars to rupees and that IS a lot, but then the cost structure is similarly high. A can of Pepsi in US costs as much as a top in India. Like, that has to be taken into account. Outsourcing is cool, because then you get paid in dollars and spend jn rupees, so you get the best of both worlds.

My experience with most educated legal immigrants is that they are exceptionally cost-conscious for these reasons. Not all of them, mind you, because many of them simply want to live out their hedonistic dreams. But, for anyone who actually does think about these differences and has a goal of returning "home", they save. They know that instead of going to starbucks every morning, they could buy a mansion in India.

People stay in US because the technological advent there is ahead of that in India, and that the possibility of research is really high there. The incentive for research is high.

Else, doctors are the highest paid officials in both the respective countries.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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5/27/2013 1:05:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/26/2013 12:55:53 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 5/24/2013 11:09:30 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/24/2013 3:22:44 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 5/23/2013 11:10:51 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/23/2013 10:53:34 AM, drhead wrote:

That's partially true. The point was, drhead was implying that the cost of healthcare in India was low because doctors could recoup the costs through organ stealing. Its not true. Cost of healthcare is very high for Indians.

I would argue he is correct to some extent.

If organ harvesting was institutionalized/systematized, then a couple thousand dollars here and there could easily pay for several nurses over several years. They could pay for renovations to the hospital. Or, if they are simply self-serving bastards/bitches, they would buy a new BMW with just 10 or so such "patients", if even that. A BMW is worth more money than an average laborer would earn in a lifetime. A kidney, heart, and liver could pay for a house, a child's education (in America), some amazing gold jewelry for the spouse. This is only because of the dramatic PPP differences between countries like India and the developed world.

I don't understand what you're getting at. Of course there always are some deals that are profitable, but should not take place because of the ethical delemma. What are you arguing here?

Yes, a lot of doctors who study in the states stay in the states. But it would be fallacious to assume that its due to the financial incentive. People love to convert their income jn dollars to rupees and that IS a lot, but then the cost structure is similarly high. A can of Pepsi in US costs as much as a top in India. Like, that has to be taken into account. Outsourcing is cool, because then you get paid in dollars and spend jn rupees, so you get the best of both worlds.

My experience with most educated legal immigrants is that they are exceptionally cost-conscious for these reasons. Not all of them, mind you, because many of them simply want to live out their hedonistic dreams. But, for anyone who actually does think about these differences and has a goal of returning "home", they save. They know that instead of going to starbucks every morning, they could buy a mansion in India.

Yeah obviously. But usually, especially in research intensive professions like that of a doctor, returning to India isn't really that much of a priority.

People stay in US because the technological advent there is ahead of that in India, and that the possibility of research is really high there. The incentive for research is high.

Else, doctors are the highest paid officials in both the respective countries.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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5/27/2013 1:23:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/27/2013 1:05:32 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/26/2013 12:55:53 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 5/24/2013 11:09:30 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/24/2013 3:22:44 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 5/23/2013 11:10:51 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/23/2013 10:53:34 AM, drhead wrote:

That's partially true. The point was, drhead was implying that the cost of healthcare in India was low because doctors could recoup the costs through organ stealing. Its not true. Cost of healthcare is very high for Indians.

I would argue he is correct to some extent.

If organ harvesting was institutionalized/systematized, then a couple thousand dollars here and there could easily pay for several nurses over several years. They could pay for renovations to the hospital. Or, if they are simply self-serving bastards/bitches, they would buy a new BMW with just 10 or so such "patients", if even that. A BMW is worth more money than an average laborer would earn in a lifetime. A kidney, heart, and liver could pay for a house, a child's education (in America), some amazing gold jewelry for the spouse. This is only because of the dramatic PPP differences between countries like India and the developed world.

I don't understand what you're getting at. Of course there always are some deals that are profitable, but should not take place because of the ethical delemma. What are you arguing here?

The idea is that in the states, there's simply not much profit to this activity; the costs are much too high. However, in low PPP countries, that's simply not an issue...the benefits from selling harvested organs easily outweigh the potential costs, mainly because of access to high PPP markets.

I mean, there is LEGAL organ harvesting too, from willing volunteers mind you, in countries like India, because selling a kidney for example would be a year's salary. You don't see that at all in the states.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?