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This is disgusting

Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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5/23/2013 9:04:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
LONDON: "Hindi-Chini bhai-bhai" may be the flavour in Delhi after the recent visit of Chinese premier Li Keqiang. However, a strong word of caution has come from one of China's most wanted men Chen Guangcheng.

Chen, a blind activist who became an international hero after he became the first person to escape house arrest in Beijing for exposing forced abortions and sterilizations in the country and eventually slipping out of China to take refuge in US, told TOI in a rare interview that "Chinese government can't be trusted. Chinese people aren't like that but the government's word can never be trusted. It is an authoritarian regime."

Chen who has first hand experience of China's iron hand in suppressing free information told TOI that he wholeheartedly supported talks with the Dalai Lama.

China recently took a hard stance against the Tibetan leader giving a cold shoulder to British Prime Minister David Cameron for meeting him. Cameron ultimately had to cancel his business visit to China after Beijing "could not find free time" to meet him.

Chen who has been blind since childhood and was sent to prison for more than four years in 2006 told TOI: "Tibetans are treated badly. I say a big yes for China to talk to the Dalai Lama. It is China's own propaganda to defame the Dalai Lama. It is important the international community pressurizes the Chinese government to give freedom to Tibet."

Chen who expressed interest to come to India to talk about his story urged the Manmohan Singh-led government to be more China's most wanted men Chen Guangcheng

"It is in favour of all democracies in the world that India must play a part in voicing support for activists working in China for more transparency. If the international community does not speak up, it will permit the Chinese government to continue with the attitude of impunity towards its people," Chen, who has been designated by Amnesty International as prisoner of conscience, said.

Chen presently lives in the US, where he continues to speak out on human rights issues. Chen is now worried about the safety of his family and friends. His elder brother Chen Guangfu has been detained. Chinese authorities supposedly hired goons who had beaten his wife so badly they broke a bone near her left eye but would not allow her to seek medical treatment.

They also beat his mother.

Chen Guangcheng said his daughter is followed each day by three people who searched her school bag.

He added that he feared for the safety of his family, including his wife, Yuan Weijing, and his young daughter, both of whom he presumed could become targets for "revenge".

There has been no talks between the Chinese government and Dalai Lama for the second year in succession. This is the longest gap between talks over the past decade.

China meanwhile has charged the Dalai Lama of instigating self-immolations. Incidents of self-immolation by Tibetans increased in 2012 with 82 such attempts recorded in mainland China through the year. At least 69 of these incidents resulted in the death of the individual.

UK recently asked China to resume talks with the Dalai Lama to sort out their differences over the future of Tibet.

Talking to TOI, UK foreign secretary William Hague said, "China has consistently remained a country of concern as far as human rights are concerned with serious violations recorded against Tibetans. Dialogue between the Dalai Lama and China is the best way to address this situation.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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5/24/2013 2:43:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Propaganda. The main (and IMHO only) difference between nations in regards to "human rights" is severity. Almost all of the charges against the CCP could have been lobbed against any nation, and is routinely lobbed at the US government by a group that is just as much ostracized in the US as Chen is ostracized in China:

(madlibs)
"US government can't be trusted. US people aren't like that but the government's word can never be trusted. It is an authoritarian regime."

You hear this kind of rhetoric all the time in the US. The main difference is that China is still slowly transitioning from something resembling martial law and into something resembling "civil society", so more kinds of speech are censored. China underwent this period of martial law because it had no government to speak of for at least 50 years prior to the CCP. It's all relative.

The main purpose of this propaganda (as is most propaganda of this nature) is to enforce the notion that somewhere down the line, we will have to assume affairs for the Chinese because they cannot do it themselves. It is masked imperialism.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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5/24/2013 11:40:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/24/2013 2:43:11 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
Propaganda. The main (and IMHO only) difference between nations in regards to "human rights" is severity. Almost all of the charges against the CCP could have been lobbed against any nation, and is routinely lobbed at the US government by a group that is just as much ostracized in the US as Chen is ostracized in China:

(madlibs)
"US government can't be trusted. US people aren't like that but the government's word can never be trusted. It is an authoritarian regime."

You hear this kind of rhetoric all the time in the US. The main difference is that China is still slowly transitioning from something resembling martial law and into something resembling "civil society", so more kinds of speech are censored. China underwent this period of martial law because it had no government to speak of for at least 50 years prior to the CCP. It's all relative.

The main purpose of this propaganda (as is most propaganda of this nature) is to enforce the notion that somewhere down the line, we will have to assume affairs for the Chinese because they cannot do it themselves. It is masked imperialism.

But just because America does it doesn't mean that China has a free pass to.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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5/25/2013 12:32:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/24/2013 11:40:25 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 5/24/2013 2:43:11 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
Propaganda. The main (and IMHO only) difference between nations in regards to "human rights" is severity. Almost all of the charges against the CCP could have been lobbed against any nation, and is routinely lobbed at the US government by a group that is just as much ostracized in the US as Chen is ostracized in China:

(madlibs)
"US government can't be trusted. US people aren't like that but the government's word can never be trusted. It is an authoritarian regime."

You hear this kind of rhetoric all the time in the US. The main difference is that China is still slowly transitioning from something resembling martial law and into something resembling "civil society", so more kinds of speech are censored. China underwent this period of martial law because it had no government to speak of for at least 50 years prior to the CCP. It's all relative.

The main purpose of this propaganda (as is most propaganda of this nature) is to enforce the notion that somewhere down the line, we will have to assume affairs for the Chinese because they cannot do it themselves. It is masked imperialism.

But just because America does it doesn't mean that China has a free pass to.

It certainly DOES mean that this article is not pointing out anything exceptional.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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5/25/2013 4:44:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Chinese government is clearly an authoritarian one, although I guest this kind of practice is common whenever a country in question has a lot of population, low level of cultural-ethnic integrity, and/or strong involvement in global politic.

I think security matter resemble an economic principle to some degree. When economic is big, you can't spend the amount of money to control it the same goes for security, if the threat is big, the cost, including morality cost will goes up to cope with sch threat.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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5/26/2013 12:18:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 4:44:41 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Chinese government is clearly an authoritarian one, although I guest this kind of practice is common whenever a country in question has a lot of population, low level of cultural-ethnic integrity, and/or strong involvement in global politic.

I think security matter resemble an economic principle to some degree. When economic is big, you can't spend the amount of money to control it the same goes for security, if the threat is big, the cost, including morality cost will goes up to cope with sch threat.

Disagree.

Tibet is CIA funded, this is not a secret. Activists like Chen get plenty of support from the US government. While I was in Cal, I heard a lecture from a MacArthur Fellow, Xiao Qiang, on similar propagandistic subject matter.

I don't doubt that it is a just cause, but it is also one heavily laced in politics and propaganda. This means that in addition to the economic burden of dealing with these kind of issues comes the political burden of defending against unwarranted outside influence and intervention in these matters.

If you look at Chinese history over the last 100 years, political dissident movements have resulted in far fewer casualties. It doesn't make what's currently happening "right", but it does put it in the context of "much less wrong".

Therefore, it all depends on your perspective. If you take it from a "foreign" perspective, then more than likely the only good to come out of China is foreign control. If you take it from a Chinese perspective, then more than likely the only good to come out of China is the expulsion of unwarranted foreign influence. It's all politics.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?