Total Posts:178|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Gender Bender Day

YYW
Posts: 36,426
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2013 7:55:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"Parents of students at a Wisconsin elementary school are up in arms over the theme "Gender Bender Day," and at least one mother suggests the event may promote homosexuality.

Tippecanoe School for the Arts and Humanities in Milwaukee recently celebrated School Spirit Week with a series of events for students in kindergarten through eighth grades, according to Fox affiliate WITI. Members of the student council chose Friday as "Gender Bender Day," a voluntary event that called for boys to dress like girls and girls to dress like boys.

"I think it"s just teaching them the wrong lesson about gender. If you"re a boy, stay a boy. You shouldn"t have something like that at school," an unidentified father told the station.

One mother, Deidri Hernandez, was so angry about "Gender Bender Day" (later dubbed "Switch It Up Day") that she called the school's principal to complain, Education Action Group Foundation, Inc. reports. Hernandez said she finds the theme "ridiculous" and "creepy" and added that "having students dress as 'transvestites' will distract from the learning process," the outlet writes. She also suggested the event promotes the acceptance of homosexuality to students.

"They might as well call it "Transgender Day,"" she told EAG, adding that she has "never stepped out" to complain about something.

Despite the ire of some parents, school representatives insist that some may be misconstruing things.

"The assumptions about the intent of event reported by EAG are absolutely incorrect," Tony Tagliavia, a public relations manager for Milwaukee public schools, told The Huffington Post in a statement Tuesday. "This is an idea created by students as one in a series of school spirit days. As with other days, participation is voluntary."

The issue of sexual orientation in schools and among children has long been a controversial topic. Last week, the Boy Scouts of America voted to allow gay members after years of banning their participation. The ban on gay adult leaders remains intact."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

While I agree that gender shouldn't be used to bully kids, but as Adam Carolla said "putting a boy in a poodle skirt and saddle shoes is bullying." I don't care if it promotes homosexuality or not -though I think the claim that it does is stupid- but I do care that kids are encouraged to adopt gender roles which they do not identify with -which is what this exercise of futility surely did.
Tsar of DDO
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2013 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The event was entirely voluntary. There is nothing wrong with encouraging people to try new things that aren't inherently harmful. Plus, gender identity isn't about mainly how one dresses, so nobody was told to adopt a different gender. I think the voluntary exercise was great. If the parents had concerns, their children were free not to participate.
YYW
Posts: 36,426
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2013 8:45:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/3/2013 8:40:48 PM, slo1 wrote:
that is jacked up. it is innapropriate. have pajama day or countless other more appropriate fun days

It's highly inappropriate, and just generally stupid.

Adam Corolla also asked something to the effect of:

"Between dress up as your favorite Bible character day or dress up as your favorite Rocky Horror character day... which one do you think would be more likely to be in a public school?"
Tsar of DDO
tulle
Posts: 4,445
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2013 8:46:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
lol @ the typical response.

I can see the intent is in the right place but I'm not sure what they hope to achieve... at age K-8 I'm sure most kids that would participate would make it a joke, defeating the purpose. That's like... dress up as black people for a day :/
yang.
YYW
Posts: 36,426
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2013 8:49:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/3/2013 8:46:44 PM, tulle wrote:
lol @ the typical response.

I agree with your analysis, btw. Good intent... poor execution.

I can see the intent is in the right place but I'm not sure what they hope to achieve... at age K-8 I'm sure most kids that would participate would make it a joke, defeating the purpose.

Indeed.

That's like... dress up as black people for a day :/

*winces*
Tsar of DDO
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 6:58:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/3/2013 8:45:29 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/3/2013 8:40:48 PM, slo1 wrote:
that is jacked up. it is innapropriate. have pajama day or countless other more appropriate fun days

It's highly inappropriate, and just generally stupid.

Adam Corolla also asked something to the effect of:

"Between dress up as your favorite Bible character day or dress up as your favorite Rocky Horror character day... which one do you think would be more likely to be in a public school?"

Neither.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
YYW
Posts: 36,426
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 5:38:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/4/2013 9:39:33 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I'd do it.

I wouldn't, and while if I had kids and they wanted to participate I wouldn't forbid it, I likewise wouldn't encourage it if it meant that they would be wearing the apparel of a gender role with which they did not identify.
Tsar of DDO
tulle
Posts: 4,445
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 5:55:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/4/2013 5:38:55 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/4/2013 9:39:33 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I'd do it.

I wouldn't, and while if I had kids and they wanted to participate I wouldn't forbid it, I likewise wouldn't encourage it if it meant that they would be wearing the apparel of a gender role with which they did not identify.

Why though? At that age, why does clothing need to be gendered anyway? When I was a kid, my "uniform" was a pair of jeans, a white tshirt under a button-down shirt (usually plaid), and sneakers. While "Gender Bender Day" sort of makes a caricature out of it by boys wearing dresses (how many 9 year old girls wear dresses to school?) I just don't see the big deal.
yang.
YYW
Posts: 36,426
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 6:06:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/4/2013 5:55:21 PM, tulle wrote:
At 6/4/2013 5:38:55 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/4/2013 9:39:33 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I'd do it.

I wouldn't, and while if I had kids and they wanted to participate I wouldn't forbid it, I likewise wouldn't encourage it if it meant that they would be wearing the apparel of a gender role with which they did not identify.

Why though? At that age, why does clothing need to be gendered anyway? When I was a kid, my "uniform" was a pair of jeans, a white tshirt under a button-down shirt (usually plaid), and sneakers. While "Gender Bender Day" sort of makes a caricature out of it by boys wearing dresses (how many 9 year old girls wear dresses to school?) I just don't see the big deal.

Because it isn't necessary, and I wouldn't want my son to be the only boy wearing a skirt and heels any more than I would want my daughter to be the only girl dressed up as a construction worker. Women, however, have a greater degree of latitude to cross gender norms than men -and whether we want to accept it or not, it remains to be the case.
Tsar of DDO
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 6:15:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/4/2013 5:38:55 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/4/2013 9:39:33 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I'd do it.

I wouldn't, and while if I had kids and they wanted to participate I wouldn't forbid it, I likewise wouldn't encourage it if it meant that they would be wearing the apparel of a gender role with which they did not identify.

Do you feel the same way about parents allowing their children to dress up as roles they don't typically identify with on Halloween, like Death or a giant M&M?
tulle
Posts: 4,445
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 6:16:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/4/2013 6:06:13 PM, YYW wrote:

Because it isn't necessary, and I wouldn't want my son to be the only boy wearing a skirt and heels any more than I would want my daughter to be the only girl dressed up as a construction worker. Women, however, have a greater degree of latitude to cross gender norms than men -and whether we want to accept it or not, it remains to be the case.

Why would either of them be dressed that way? That's a gender caricature and not really a "gender bender". Like I said, someone aged 5-13 likely wouldn't be wearing a skirt and heels to school, so why would the boys who chose to dress up like a girl do so? A boy can support androgyny without wearing a skirt or heels. It's stereotypes like that that make me more inclined to support a Day like this. The fact that the typical response is "I don't want my son wearing a dress" as though school aged girls are wearing dresses on the playground is disconcerting to me.
yang.
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 6:28:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
if I had kids I'd let them choose.
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
YYW
Posts: 36,426
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 6:35:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/4/2013 6:15:22 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 6/4/2013 5:38:55 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/4/2013 9:39:33 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I'd do it.

I wouldn't, and while if I had kids and they wanted to participate I wouldn't forbid it, I likewise wouldn't encourage it if it meant that they would be wearing the apparel of a gender role with which they did not identify.

Do you feel the same way about parents allowing their children to dress up as roles they don't typically identify with on Halloween, like Death or a giant M&M?

I don't know, but I would say that it's a different case. Dressing up as Death or a giant M&M isn't inviting other kids to bully them, whereas dressing up in the opposite sex's clothes might.

Once more, I don't see anything morally wrong with it (and if my kid actually didn't identify with the gender s/he was born with I would have no problem with her/him dressing as she wanted) but the ethical issue of having girls dress up like boys or boys dress up like girls (which is to say, have children dress up in the garmentation of a gender role with which they do not identify) still stands because it makes a mockery of gender to begin with -because what it's implying is that "gender roles" don't matter, which to a trans kid would probably be even more alienating when they already don't feel like they don't belong in their body.

But anyway, I don't really like Halloween as a holiday to begin with... too much candy, sugar and risk of having to be friendly to neighbors.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,426
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 6:36:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/4/2013 6:28:01 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
if I had kids I'd let them choose.

I would too, and while I wouldn't oppose their decision, I wouldn't support it either if their playing "dress up" meant that they donned the clothing of a gender role with which they did not identify.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,426
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 6:41:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/4/2013 6:16:09 PM, tulle wrote:
At 6/4/2013 6:06:13 PM, YYW wrote:

Because it isn't necessary, and I wouldn't want my son to be the only boy wearing a skirt and heels any more than I would want my daughter to be the only girl dressed up as a construction worker. Women, however, have a greater degree of latitude to cross gender norms than men -and whether we want to accept it or not, it remains to be the case.

Why would either of them be dressed that way?

I don't know that they would, I was just using that as an example.

That's a gender caricature and not really a "gender bender". Like I said, someone aged 5-13 likely wouldn't be wearing a skirt and heels to school, so why would the boys who chose to dress up like a girl do so?

I really have no idea what elementary school aged kids wear to school. When I was in elementary and middle school though, we wore uniforms.

A boy can support androgyny without wearing a skirt or heels.

And so...

It's stereotypes like that that make me more inclined to support a Day like this.

It's not that I'm stereotyping, I was just making an example.

The fact that the typical response is "I don't want my son wearing a dress" as though school aged girls are wearing dresses on the playground is disconcerting to me.

Tulle, I really have no idea what elementary aged school kids wear to school -especially if they go to public school. While I recognize that one could dress up as a girl without wearing a skirt or a dress, if the point was to dress a distinctly different gender role, that would be the best way for a boy to do it -which I thought was implicit.
Tsar of DDO
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 7:01:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Gotta represent Mil-town.

Although Tippecanoe is actually a Montesori school now.

Anyway--post relevant to the actual OP is forthcoming.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 7:07:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
And now my topic-relevant post:

I think "Gender Bender" is perfectly okay when in the right setting--I think for a school like Tippecanoe, at least for the younger grades, it's inappropriate, and is counterproductive to the general idea of not forcing gender roles on people: in essence, Gender Bender ultimately says to kids that "Yes, different genders to wear different things, and it's only okay for you to wear the other gender's clothes on this specific day, and no time else." However, for a high school, I think kids have matured to the point to understand that it is at heart just a fun parody.

As for the concerns of instilling homosexuality...well, I'm not even going to dignify that gibberish with a response.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
YYW
Posts: 36,426
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 7:20:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/4/2013 7:07:54 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
And now my topic-relevant post:

I think "Gender Bender" is perfectly okay when in the right setting--I think for a school like Tippecanoe, at least for the younger grades, it's inappropriate, and is counterproductive to the general idea of not forcing gender roles on people: in essence, Gender Bender ultimately says to kids that "Yes, different genders to wear different things, and it's only okay for you to wear the other gender's clothes on this specific day, and no time else." However, for a high school, I think kids have matured to the point to understand that it is at heart just a fun parody.

As for the concerns of instilling homosexuality...well, I'm not even going to dignify that gibberish with a response.

I agree.
Tsar of DDO
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 8:47:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/4/2013 6:35:43 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/4/2013 6:15:22 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 6/4/2013 5:38:55 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/4/2013 9:39:33 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I'd do it.

I wouldn't, and while if I had kids and they wanted to participate I wouldn't forbid it, I likewise wouldn't encourage it if it meant that they would be wearing the apparel of a gender role with which they did not identify.

Do you feel the same way about parents allowing their children to dress up as roles they don't typically identify with on Halloween, like Death or a giant M&M?

I don't know, but I would say that it's a different case. Dressing up as Death or a giant M&M isn't inviting other kids to bully them, whereas dressing up in the opposite sex's clothes might.

I was getting the impression you had an issue with it mainly because they would be dressing up as something which they do not typically identify with, not because of what bullying might occur as a result. I guess you have two problems with it: (i) they would be dressing up as something they don't typically identify with, and (ii) bullying might occur as a result.

Could you respond to the Halloween scenario solely in the context of (i)? You have no problem with them dressing up as something they don't identify with on that day, but any other day it's not okay?

(ii) can be applied to a wide variety of things. Being openly gay in school will likely result in at least some bullying. Would you take Bill O'Reilly's stance on the issue and say that, because of that, gays should remain in the closet?

Would you also not say that if anything, much less bullying is likely to occur on a day like "gender bender day" when it is expected that some people will participate than any other day.
YYW
Posts: 36,426
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 9:04:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/4/2013 8:47:06 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 6/4/2013 6:35:43 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/4/2013 6:15:22 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 6/4/2013 5:38:55 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/4/2013 9:39:33 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I'd do it.

I wouldn't, and while if I had kids and they wanted to participate I wouldn't forbid it, I likewise wouldn't encourage it if it meant that they would be wearing the apparel of a gender role with which they did not identify.

Do you feel the same way about parents allowing their children to dress up as roles they don't typically identify with on Halloween, like Death or a giant M&M?

I don't know, but I would say that it's a different case. Dressing up as Death or a giant M&M isn't inviting other kids to bully them, whereas dressing up in the opposite sex's clothes might.

I was getting the impression you had an issue with it mainly because they would be dressing up as something which they do not typically identify with, not because of what bullying might occur as a result. I guess you have two problems with it: (i) they would be dressing up as something they don't typically identify with, and (ii) bullying might occur as a result.

I think both issues are equally good, and I'd also endorse DetectableNinja's views on this as well. You might read my response to Tulle, who I think was raising similar concerns to yours.

Could you respond to the Halloween scenario solely in the context of (i)? You have no problem with them dressing up as something they don't identify with on that day, but any other day it's not okay?

My response to Tulle might elucidate where I stand, if not, I'll try to post in more depth later. This is a hard issue for me, and there are a myriad of problems with it.

(ii) can be applied to a wide variety of things. Being openly gay in school will likely result in at least some bullying. Would you take Bill O'Reilly's stance on the issue and say that, because of that, gays should remain in the closet?

So, I don't really care what Bill O'Reilly thinks, but as a rule I think that someone who is gay should only come out when/if they are ready. I think that the societal pressure to "come out" that is placed on gay kids is morally wrong, and counterintuitive to the notion of personal choice because it implicitly sends a gay kid the message that they must tell the world or be judged for not doing so.

I also think that the entire concept of sexual identity (not to be confused with gender identity) is problematic on a conceptual level, but I don't feel like going into that right now. Though to answer your question, if a gay kid (especially in primary school years) doesn't want to come out of the closet for ANY reason, then they shouldn't. If they do want to come out -I'd fully support that decision.

I also wholly reject the idea that not coming out because you don't want to face the consequences is bullsh!t. It's a personal choice, and only a personal choice, to reveal what is otherwise no one's business but your own. Foucault talks about a sociocultural "will to know" such that we are compelled (by various forces) to "tell the truth" about ourselves to the world, and society not only has no right to regulate what people of consenting age do in their bedrooms, it likewise doesn't even have a right to ask.

So in one sense, sure... I agree with Bill O, but it's more complicated than that.

Would you also not say that if anything, much less bullying is likely to occur on a day like "gender bender day" when it is expected that some people will participate than any other day.

Here's the issue, Dakota:

When adults have these "grand ideas" and political agendas, no matter how well intentioned their programs may be they lack the ability to recognize how their plans will actually play out among kids. This was a well intentioned but very poorly planned attempt to address a problem that's hard to deal with. On the one hand you have kids being bullied because they're something other than what most kids are, but on the other hand some half-baked plot like this risks only amplifying the problem it's set out to resolve.
Tsar of DDO
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,288
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 9:19:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/4/2013 9:04:20 PM, YYW wrote:
It's a personal choice, and only a personal choice, to reveal what is otherwise no one's business but your own.

^^^
This.

It's not something that I announce to anyone that I meet, though I won't lie when asked about it. When people act surprised at the fact that I didn't tell them, I always retort by asking them if they introduce themselves by saying 'Hi, I'm Martha! In case you were wondering, I prefer my penises uncircumcised. So, do you come here often?'
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 9:57:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/4/2013 9:04:20 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/4/2013 8:47:06 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 6/4/2013 6:35:43 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/4/2013 6:15:22 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 6/4/2013 5:38:55 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/4/2013 9:39:33 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I'd do it.

I wouldn't, and while if I had kids and they wanted to participate I wouldn't forbid it, I likewise wouldn't encourage it if it meant that they would be wearing the apparel of a gender role with which they did not identify.

Do you feel the same way about parents allowing their children to dress up as roles they don't typically identify with on Halloween, like Death or a giant M&M?

I don't know, but I would say that it's a different case. Dressing up as Death or a giant M&M isn't inviting other kids to bully them, whereas dressing up in the opposite sex's clothes might.

I was getting the impression you had an issue with it mainly because they would be dressing up as something which they do not typically identify with, not because of what bullying might occur as a result. I guess you have two problems with it: (i) they would be dressing up as something they don't typically identify with, and (ii) bullying might occur as a result.

I think both issues are equally good, and I'd also endorse DetectableNinja's views on this as well. You might read my response to Tulle, who I think was raising similar concerns to yours.

Could you respond to the Halloween scenario solely in the context of (i)? You have no problem with them dressing up as something they don't identify with on that day, but any other day it's not okay?

My response to Tulle might elucidate where I stand, if not, I'll try to post in more depth later. This is a hard issue for me, and there are a myriad of problems with it.

I don't even necessarily agree with Tulle's objections, let alone think they are reflective of my own.

(ii) can be applied to a wide variety of things. Being openly gay in school will likely result in at least some bullying. Would you take Bill O'Reilly's stance on the issue and say that, because of that, gays should remain in the closet?

So, I don't really care what Bill O'Reilly thinks, but as a rule I think that someone who is gay should only come out when/if they are ready. I think that the societal pressure to "come out" that is placed on gay kids is morally wrong, and counterintuitive to the notion of personal choice because it implicitly sends a gay kid the message that they must tell the world or be judged for not doing so.

I also think that the entire concept of sexual identity (not to be confused with gender identity) is problematic on a conceptual level, but I don't feel like going into that right now. Though to answer your question, if a gay kid (especially in primary school years) doesn't want to come out of the closet for ANY reason, then they shouldn't. If they do want to come out -I'd fully support that decision.

I also wholly reject the idea that not coming out because you don't want to face the consequences is bullsh!t. It's a personal choice, and only a personal choice, to reveal what is otherwise no one's business but your own. Foucault talks about a sociocultural "will to know" such that we are compelled (by various forces) to "tell the truth" about ourselves to the world, and society not only has no right to regulate what people of consenting age do in their bedrooms, it likewise doesn't even have a right to ask.

So in one sense, sure... I agree with Bill O, but it's more complicated than that.

I think you missed my point. I completely agree that "coming out" is something someone should do only if he/she wants to and that it's essentially no one else's business unless he/she wants it to be.

The point was, coming out is something that would likely cause bullying, and while no one should feel pressure to come out, likewise, no one should feel pressure to not come out if he/she would otherwise want to. O'Reilly takes a victim-blaming stance when he says gays should remain in the closet because it causes bullying, and I think you are utilizing that same rational when you are saying people shouldn't dress up in whatever clothes they want to.

In other words, the problem isn't that people are coming out or dressing up as a different gender; the problem is there are people willing to bully them for doing so.

Would you also not say that if anything, much less bullying is likely to occur on a day like "gender bender day" when it is expected that some people will participate than any other day.

Here's the issue, Dakota:

When adults have these "grand ideas" and political agendas, no matter how well intentioned their programs may be they lack the ability to recognize how their plans will actually play out among kids. This was a well intentioned but very poorly planned attempt to address a problem that's hard to deal with. On the one hand you have kids being bullied because they're something other than what most kids are, but on the other hand some half-baked plot like this risks only amplifying the problem it's set out to resolve.

You're offering some very convoluted responses to yes-or-no questions. You said earlier Halloween was a different case because kids are not likely to be bullied when they dress up as a giant M&M. Yet on any ordinary Tuesday, they probably would be bullied for doing so, right? The reason they aren't bullied on Halloween is because it's Halloween; it's a day designated specifically for kids doing something unusual. How does that not also apply to Gender Bender Day?
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 10:09:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
A lot of people wanted to do gender bender day for school spirit week in hs, but it never went through. I think the admins were afraid that people would be inappropriate. about it.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 10:09:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/4/2013 10:09:28 PM, darkkermit wrote:
A lot of people wanted to do gender bender day for school spirit week in hs, but it never went through. I think the admins were afraid that people would be inappropriate. about it.

In other words, guys wearing what girls actually wear, but its just so disgusting for guys to be wearing that.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
YYW
Posts: 36,426
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 10:10:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/4/2013 9:57:15 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
You're offering some very convoluted responses to yes-or-no questions. You said earlier Halloween was a different case because kids are not likely to be bullied when they dress up as a giant M&M. Yet on any ordinary Tuesday, they probably would be bullied for doing so, right? The reason they aren't bullied on Halloween is because it's Halloween; it's a day designated specifically for kids doing something unusual. How does that not also apply to Gender Bender Day?

You're talking about totally different things, for totally different reasons, which happen to both involve dressing up. One does not relate to the other, nor are they even remotely similar, and I'm trying to say that without implying that you're making a nonsense point.

Halloween is not Gender Bender day. Gender Bender day is not Halloween. There isn't a social problem that Haloween is trying to remedy, that it may possibly make worse. There IS a social problem that Gender Bender day IS trying to address, that it VERY POSSIBLY could make worse.

Does that make sense?
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,426
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 10:11:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/4/2013 10:10:30 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/4/2013 9:57:15 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
You're offering some very convoluted responses to yes-or-no questions. You said earlier Halloween was a different case because kids are not likely to be bullied when they dress up as a giant M&M. Yet on any ordinary Tuesday, they probably would be bullied for doing so, right? The reason they aren't bullied on Halloween is because it's Halloween; it's a day designated specifically for kids doing something unusual. How does that not also apply to Gender Bender Day?

You're talking about totally different things, for totally different reasons, which happen to both involve dressing up. One does not relate to the other, nor are they even remotely similar, and I'm trying to say that without implying that you're making a nonsense point.

Halloween is not Gender Bender day. Gender Bender day is not Halloween. There isn't a social problem that Haloween is trying to remedy, that it may possibly make worse. There IS a social problem that Gender Bender day IS trying to address, that it VERY POSSIBLY could make worse.

Does that make sense?

By getting kids to dress up as the other gender, you're not going to get them to stop bullying gay or trans kids. Rather, you're going to give them an excuse to make a farce out of gender norms.
Tsar of DDO
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2013 10:16:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/4/2013 10:11:47 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/4/2013 10:10:30 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/4/2013 9:57:15 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
You're offering some very convoluted responses to yes-or-no questions. You said earlier Halloween was a different case because kids are not likely to be bullied when they dress up as a giant M&M. Yet on any ordinary Tuesday, they probably would be bullied for doing so, right? The reason they aren't bullied on Halloween is because it's Halloween; it's a day designated specifically for kids doing something unusual. How does that not also apply to Gender Bender Day?

You're talking about totally different things, for totally different reasons, which happen to both involve dressing up. One does not relate to the other, nor are they even remotely similar, and I'm trying to say that without implying that you're making a nonsense point.

Now now, no need to be so polite. I can take it.

Halloween is not Gender Bender day. Gender Bender day is not Halloween. There isn't a social problem that Haloween is trying to remedy, that it may possibly make worse. There IS a social problem that Gender Bender day IS trying to address, that it VERY POSSIBLY could make worse.

Does that make sense?

I didn't realize Gender Bender day was trying to address or remedy anything at all; I assumed it was just another random, whacky, fun spirit day thing.

By getting kids to dress up as the other gender, you're not going to get them to stop bullying gay or trans kids. Rather, you're going to give them an excuse to make a farce out of gender norms.

What is the problem with making a farce out of gender norms?