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Waiting Tables

R0b1Billion
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6/9/2013 8:28:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So I used to wait tables, but I got sick of it because SOCIETY SUCKS. I work as a barista now, and I have some limited table-serving duties - mainly just to bring out the food and bus the table. The other day these two $*%#( $%@(@#s came in, and I was in a hurry and approached the wrong table on the way over to them. We have lots of tables and I didn't take their order personally, so I started to deliver their food to the wrong people and then realized it was theirs so I brought it over to them and went back to my business. After they had left, I noticed a quarter on the table.

For those of you who have not any waiting experience, let me explain what a quarter on the table means. We are not actually a full-service place, like I said, and there is a tip-jar by the register but most people certainly don't tip at the table. Anyway, a quarter is a sign that a tip was intended to be left (as opposed to either forgetting to leave one or not ever intending to leave one) but they are leaving as little as possible just to let you know how much they are disappointed.

Like I said, most people leave nothing and I don't really work for tips, but this really got me thinking about society in general and why I refuse to actually be a waiter anymore - people suck. They do. When people spend money, they feel deserved of your products and services. They don't look at themselves as privileged to be an American and surrounded by luxuries while the rest of the world starves, they don't appreciate you for what you do for your efforts, they simply decide that since they have money, they deserve what you have because, hey, they get treated like sh!t at work themselves so why should they treat you any better?

Being a waiter is horrible. You have lots of great people that make it very fun, then you have people like this that exercise their abilities to make your life hell. Being tied to the tip makes a waiter a slave to these people's demands, so I make sure I never work in a tipped position so when a couple of *&^%$( )(&*$)(*#@s like that come into my place and decide to try and abuse me, they are not allowed that power over me. My paycheck is still the same regardless. I am a great waiter, because I have a fun personality and I am a servant by nature, but people like that are why people like me will not be taking care of you in a restaurant.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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6/9/2013 8:34:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 8:28:28 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
So I used to wait tables, but I got sick of it because SOCIETY SUCKS. I work as a barista now, and I have some limited table-serving duties - mainly just to bring out the food and bus the table. The other day these two $*%#( $%@(@#s came in, and I was in a hurry and approached the wrong table on the way over to them. We have lots of tables and I didn't take their order personally, so I started to deliver their food to the wrong people and then realized it was theirs so I brought it over to them and went back to my business. After they had left, I noticed a quarter on the table.

For those of you who have not any waiting experience, let me explain what a quarter on the table means. We are not actually a full-service place, like I said, and there is a tip-jar by the register but most people certainly don't tip at the table. Anyway, a quarter is a sign that a tip was intended to be left (as opposed to either forgetting to leave one or not ever intending to leave one) but they are leaving as little as possible just to let you know how much they are disappointed.

Like I said, most people leave nothing and I don't really work for tips, but this really got me thinking about society in general and why I refuse to actually be a waiter anymore - people suck. They do. When people spend money, they feel deserved of your products and services. They don't look at themselves as privileged to be an American and surrounded by luxuries while the rest of the world starves, they don't appreciate you for what you do for your efforts, they simply decide that since they have money, they deserve what you have because, hey, they get treated like sh!t at work themselves so why should they treat you any better?

I agree with the overall idea that we have an issue with kindness, and I can rant about it all day. That being said, I have to stop here and just say...what?!

If you spend money for a service or product as part of a purchase or trade, OF COURSE you deserve it. Unless your wording is just not representative of what you're REALLY saying, then I apologize. However, I'm pretty sure if you purchase something, you deserve to have it.

Being a waiter is horrible. You have lots of great people that make it very fun, then you have people like this that exercise their abilities to make your life hell. Being tied to the tip makes a waiter a slave to these people's demands, so I make sure I never work in a tipped position so when a couple of *&^%$( )(&*$)(*#@s like that come into my place and decide to try and abuse me, they are not allowed that power over me. My paycheck is still the same regardless. I am a great waiter, because I have a fun personality and I am a servant by nature, but people like that are why people like me will not be taking care of you in a restaurant.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
R0b1Billion
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6/9/2013 9:10:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ninja:
You have interpreted me correctly. I think it is terrible that people think they deserve anything. When I walk into a business and buy a product or service, I am thankful of those who give it to me, I don't just expect that I deserve to have it because I put in my work to make a paycheck. What I am describing here is a sense of entitlement.

Entitlement is a dangerous human motive. One doesn't have to look far to see the political struggles around the world that are based on people feeling entitled to what others have... Jesus Christ saw this 2,000 years ago and spoke of the parable of the vineyard. To shorten the parable, it involves a man who owns a vineyard and hires workers for a wage ($x), and they work from dusk until the end of the day for it. At noon, he hires more people on for the same wage ($x), and they only work half the amount of time as the other workers (they finish the day, but come on much later). When the workers who worked longer complain that they are entitled to more than the others, Jesus explains that they are sinful for complaining and should just take the wage they agreed upon and stfu.

What Jesus is doing here is explaining Envy. Envy is not just wanting what others have, it is a sense of entitlement to what they have. If you don't purge yourself of this sense of entitlement, you will not be able to stop yourself from falling into sin. If you aren't Christian, then "sin" can simply represent problems in your life with the people around you - you don't have to be preparing for heaven to be hurt by sin.

When you walk into a place feeling entitled, you are going to look like an a55hole, especially standing next to somebody who truly has actualized humility. People who feel entitled make society miserable, making workers' lives much less enjoyable than they otherwise could be. Now that I have shined this light on you, you will start to see what I mean and remember my words when customers you work with abuse you. It's important that you don't reciprocate this abuse when you get your paycheck and do it to others.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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6/9/2013 9:12:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I had a friend of mine who is a waiter at a Ruth's Chris when he was in college. He said there are three kinds of people who eat there: regulars, "occasioners" and the 'just cause' business people. Regulars and business people tip pretty well. Occasioners don't -but there's a good living to be made if you're able to swallow your feelings when things get rough. He's in law school in DC now...
Tsar of DDO
DetectableNinja
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6/9/2013 9:17:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:10:15 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
Ninja:
You have interpreted me correctly. I think it is terrible that people think they deserve anything. When I walk into a business and buy a product or service, I am thankful of those who give it to me, I don't just expect that I deserve to have it because I put in my work to make a paycheck. What I am describing here is a sense of entitlement.

Entitlement is a dangerous human motive. One doesn't have to look far to see the political struggles around the world that are based on people feeling entitled to what others have... Jesus Christ saw this 2,000 years ago and spoke of the parable of the vineyard. To shorten the parable, it involves a man who owns a vineyard and hires workers for a wage ($x), and they work from dusk until the end of the day for it. At noon, he hires more people on for the same wage ($x), and they only work half the amount of time as the other workers (they finish the day, but come on much later). When the workers who worked longer complain that they are entitled to more than the others, Jesus explains that they are sinful for complaining and should just take the wage they agreed upon and stfu.

What Jesus is doing here is explaining Envy. Envy is not just wanting what others have, it is a sense of entitlement to what they have. If you don't purge yourself of this sense of entitlement, you will not be able to stop yourself from falling into sin. If you aren't Christian, then "sin" can simply represent problems in your life with the people around you - you don't have to be preparing for heaven to be hurt by sin.

When you walk into a place feeling entitled, you are going to look like an a55hole, especially standing next to somebody who truly has actualized humility. People who feel entitled make society miserable, making workers' lives much less enjoyable than they otherwise could be. Now that I have shined this light on you, you will start to see what I mean and remember my words when customers you work with abuse you. It's important that you don't reciprocate this abuse when you get your paycheck and do it to others.

Oh dear, Rob. You didn't need to talk down to me.

What I meant is not that feeling entitled is fine--I'm terribly against it.

What I meant is, if you've already paid someone for a service, you reasonably are entitled to that service. You shouldn't just be grateful that they decided not to rip you off and not provide the service.

Further, there's a difference between being entitled to something and acting with that attitude. I think we should be grateful that people offer their services and products. At the same time though, once you've given what they want, it's only right that you get what you want in return, as part of the transaction. That's all I meant. So I agree with Jesus in the parable. The workers agreed to a certain wage, and that's what they are entitled to as part of the agreement. However, if they were given only a fraction of what the owner agreed to pay, then they DO have the right to complain, because they were not paid per the agreement.

And again, I ask you respectfully to not talk down to me like you're teaching me some lesson.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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6/9/2013 9:40:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ninja:

*not talking down to you disclaimer*

What you say is good in theory, but in practice things simply aren't so cut and dry. For instance, let's say the people who tipped me the quarter were in the discussion. Would they say they "got what they paid for?" I would, they wouldn't. Your rebuttal is an over-simplification.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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6/9/2013 9:43:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:12:04 PM, YYW wrote:
I had a friend of mine who is a waiter at a Ruth's Chris when he was in college. He said there are three kinds of people who eat there: regulars, "occasioners" and the 'just cause' business people. Regulars and business people tip pretty well. Occasioners don't -but there's a good living to be made if you're able to swallow your feelings when things get rough. He's in law school in DC now...

Yeah waiters have to swallow their feelings constantly. Because restaurant patrons feel entitled to being able to abuse the waiter, they do. They are spending money, after all... And when a-holes like this abuse others, that negativity is created and circulated throughout society in a multitude of ways. It starts with you and me being humble and courteous to those around us. That doesn't mean making sure we get what we deserve and nothing more, it means often not getting what we FEEL we deserve because, from our perspective, we often feel we deserve more than we really need. That's the point I'm trying to get across to Ninja...
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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6/9/2013 9:46:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 9:40:03 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
Ninja:

*not talking down to you disclaimer*

What you say is good in theory, but in practice things simply aren't so cut and dry. For instance, let's say the people who tipped me the quarter were in the discussion. Would they say they "got what they paid for?" I would, they wouldn't. Your rebuttal is an over-simplification.

My response was really to that one comment about people acting entitled for things they paid for, not to the situation. I agree--entitlement and arrogance are the worst attitudes, and waiters are treated terribly.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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6/10/2013 1:01:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Rob, I disagree with what a quarter means. It could very well be pricks been pricks, like when I deliver pizza and the teen makes sure to tell me that I can keep the rest as a tip, the whole six cents.

Regardless, they suck as it is, and shouldn't be upset that you weren't aware of their order.

It's funny you write this and touch on entitlement, as I was going to post something similar a few days ago. I'll do it soon, so keep an eye out.
My work here is, finally, done.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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6/10/2013 5:43:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
My tipping scheme is as follows:

Poor Service: 15%
Decent service: 20%
Exceptional service: 25%

I have only left 10% once, and it was richly deserved. Let me first make it clear that I'm not exactly hard to deal with when I go out to eat. I've waited five minutes to politely ask for a fork, without penalizing the server for it, because it was a holiday and she was busy, but nonetheless pleasant, professional, and good with everything else. I've had my water spilled; apology accepted. I'm not going to give them the exceptional rate, but it's not like I've never dropped a flask at work. It happens. I'll give poor mostly for people who are rude to me, since I'm never rude to them. The one ten percent was for a waitress who flipped out on me because I nicely asked if I could please have a glass of water. My mother was a waitress for years, and I used to tip people who were rude 20%, and she would stop me and explain that it's not right to give them the same tip that you would someone who was polite and professional. So while I agree that leaving a penny or quarter tip is unforgivably rude and an egregious breach of taste, I do think that tips should follow some form of merit-based system. If my drink is perfect, my food is perfect, things come out on time, and the server is delightful to be around, I'm going to throw a bit extra in.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
R0b1Billion
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6/10/2013 10:19:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/10/2013 1:01:20 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Rob, I disagree with what a quarter means. It could very well be pricks been pricks, like when I deliver pizza and the teen makes sure to tell me that I can keep the rest as a tip, the whole six cents.

The practice of leaving one quarter is well-established as a message of disappointment by the customer, it's not just an assumption on my part. In a situation where a waiter is being especially inattentive or something it's utility becomes less questionable, but I work in a cafe where you order at a register, pay, and I bring the food out. There is no table-service other than clearing an empty plate if I have time, and no reason for them to feel the need to send that message to me. It's different in full-service, where you are required to sit and wait for every refill and such; at my place you approach the counter for anything you need.

Regardless, they suck as it is, and shouldn't be upset that you weren't aware of their order.

It's funny you write this and touch on entitlement, as I was going to post something similar a few days ago. I'll do it soon, so keep an eye out.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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6/10/2013 10:25:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/10/2013 5:43:54 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
My tipping scheme is as follows:

Poor Service: 15%
Decent service: 20%
Exceptional service: 25%

I have only left 10% once, and it was richly deserved. Let me first make it clear that I'm not exactly hard to deal with when I go out to eat. I've waited five minutes to politely ask for a fork, without penalizing the server for it, because it was a holiday and she was busy, but nonetheless pleasant, professional, and good with everything else. I've had my water spilled; apology accepted. I'm not going to give them the exceptional rate, but it's not like I've never dropped a flask at work. It happens. I'll give poor mostly for people who are rude to me, since I'm never rude to them. The one ten percent was for a waitress who flipped out on me because I nicely asked if I could please have a glass of water. My mother was a waitress for years, and I used to tip people who were rude 20%, and she would stop me and explain that it's not right to give them the same tip that you would someone who was polite and professional. So while I agree that leaving a penny or quarter tip is unforgivably rude and an egregious breach of taste, I do think that tips should follow some form of merit-based system. If my drink is perfect, my food is perfect, things come out on time, and the server is delightful to be around, I'm going to throw a bit extra in.

So technical. I just go off my gut feeling every time. I'm not so concerned about physical performance, I simply judge the personality of the waiter (which reflects my own strengths, having a good personality but not that great at multi-tasking). After all, I find it is my responsibility to be able to keep myself entertained with the company I bring without hawking the waiter and kitchen to get my food out right away. I'm out to enjoy myself - why sabotage my own good time?
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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6/10/2013 10:29:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/10/2013 10:25:23 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 6/10/2013 5:43:54 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
My tipping scheme is as follows:

Poor Service: 15%
Decent service: 20%
Exceptional service: 25%

I have only left 10% once, and it was richly deserved. Let me first make it clear that I'm not exactly hard to deal with when I go out to eat. I've waited five minutes to politely ask for a fork, without penalizing the server for it, because it was a holiday and she was busy, but nonetheless pleasant, professional, and good with everything else. I've had my water spilled; apology accepted. I'm not going to give them the exceptional rate, but it's not like I've never dropped a flask at work. It happens. I'll give poor mostly for people who are rude to me, since I'm never rude to them. The one ten percent was for a waitress who flipped out on me because I nicely asked if I could please have a glass of water. My mother was a waitress for years, and I used to tip people who were rude 20%, and she would stop me and explain that it's not right to give them the same tip that you would someone who was polite and professional. So while I agree that leaving a penny or quarter tip is unforgivably rude and an egregious breach of taste, I do think that tips should follow some form of merit-based system. If my drink is perfect, my food is perfect, things come out on time, and the server is delightful to be around, I'm going to throw a bit extra in.

So technical. I just go off my gut feeling every time. I'm not so concerned about physical performance, I simply judge the personality of the waiter (which reflects my own strengths, having a good personality but not that great at multi-tasking). After all, I find it is my responsibility to be able to keep myself entertained with the company I bring without hawking the waiter and kitchen to get my food out right away. I'm out to enjoy myself - why sabotage my own good time?

Yeah, attitude is key for me as well.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Logical-Master
Posts: 2,538
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6/10/2013 10:37:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think the argument I make in this debate is the best way to approach it: http://www.debate.org...

Tips should be given based on the service provided. If the server simply walks out and gives you your food, they shouldn't be given a tip as that's already what you're paying for. If, however, the service goes beyond what you're paying for, actually enhances the quality of the service/food based on his/her performance, the server should be tipped. Just got back from Logan and I left the waitress a 20 dollar tip. She kept our drinks full, kept our table clean, brought our food out as we finished the appetizers, gave good conversation and made us feel welcome based on her demeanor.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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6/12/2013 1:52:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/10/2013 5:43:54 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
My tipping scheme is as follows:

Poor Service: 15%
Decent service: 20%
Exceptional service: 25%

I have only left 10% once, and it was richly deserved. Let me first make it clear that I'm not exactly hard to deal with when I go out to eat. I've waited five minutes to politely ask for a fork, without penalizing the server for it, because it was a holiday and she was busy, but nonetheless pleasant, professional, and good with everything else. I've had my water spilled; apology accepted. I'm not going to give them the exceptional rate, but it's not like I've never dropped a flask at work. It happens. I'll give poor mostly for people who are rude to me, since I'm never rude to them. The one ten percent was for a waitress who flipped out on me because I nicely asked if I could please have a glass of water. My mother was a waitress for years, and I used to tip people who were rude 20%, and she would stop me and explain that it's not right to give them the same tip that you would someone who was polite and professional. So while I agree that leaving a penny or quarter tip is unforgivably rude and an egregious breach of taste, I do think that tips should follow some form of merit-based system. If my drink is perfect, my food is perfect, things come out on time, and the server is delightful to be around, I'm going to throw a bit extra in.

This is stupid, no offense.
If they give you bad service, you ought not tip them anything. It is difficult, but I have done it a handful of times.

The reason?
If they suck at their job to the point that a tip is unjustified except for "they work for tips", perhaps they should do better or get a new job. If a tip is a sort of incentive bonus, why should I pay you for a job you didn't perform well? Had I had the option, I would have self-served and been much happier with my ability to refill my water.
My work here is, finally, done.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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6/12/2013 9:17:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/12/2013 1:52:56 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

Had I had the option, I would have self-served and been much happier with my ability to refill my water.

You do have the option. Stay home.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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6/12/2013 9:51:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/12/2013 9:17:26 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 6/12/2013 1:52:56 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

Had I had the option, I would have self-served and been much happier with my ability to refill my water.

You do have the option. Stay home.

Personally, I don't agree with the concept of tipping at all. You're in a restaurant. What you are paying for is much more than just the food...it is also the ambiance AND the service. To pay a tip above and beyond the price of the dishes, which is already far beyond the costs associated with the raw materials and preparation, does not make any sense to me, especially in restaurants that obligate a minimal tip.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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6/12/2013 6:47:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/12/2013 1:52:56 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/10/2013 5:43:54 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
My tipping scheme is as follows:

Poor Service: 15%
Decent service: 20%
Exceptional service: 25%

I have only left 10% once, and it was richly deserved. Let me first make it clear that I'm not exactly hard to deal with when I go out to eat. I've waited five minutes to politely ask for a fork, without penalizing the server for it, because it was a holiday and she was busy, but nonetheless pleasant, professional, and good with everything else. I've had my water spilled; apology accepted. I'm not going to give them the exceptional rate, but it's not like I've never dropped a flask at work. It happens. I'll give poor mostly for people who are rude to me, since I'm never rude to them. The one ten percent was for a waitress who flipped out on me because I nicely asked if I could please have a glass of water. My mother was a waitress for years, and I used to tip people who were rude 20%, and she would stop me and explain that it's not right to give them the same tip that you would someone who was polite and professional. So while I agree that leaving a penny or quarter tip is unforgivably rude and an egregious breach of taste, I do think that tips should follow some form of merit-based system. If my drink is perfect, my food is perfect, things come out on time, and the server is delightful to be around, I'm going to throw a bit extra in.

This is stupid, no offense.
If they give you bad service, you ought not tip them anything. It is difficult, but I have done it a handful of times.

The reason?
If they suck at their job to the point that a tip is unjustified except for "they work for tips", perhaps they should do better or get a new job. If a tip is a sort of incentive bonus, why should I pay you for a job you didn't perform well? Had I had the option, I would have self-served and been much happier with my ability to refill my water.

If I hire someone to wash my car every week, and they miss a spot one week, do I refuse to pay them? No. I go into the deal with the pretty common knowledge that humans are capable of making mistakes and accept the risk. The same holds true for servers. The tip is a means for punishing bad service and rewarding good service. I could see leaving a tip of $0 only if I were not served at all, or served in a horribly atrocious manner. Otherwise worse behavior could not be punished. If you say 'Oh, you rolled your eyes? NO TIP FOR YOU!', then what are you going to say when someone throws a drink in your space or flips your table over? The harshest punishments should be reserved for the harshest offenses to your dignity and your patronage. Anything less is, to borrow a phrase from you, just stupid, not to mention classless, rude, and demeaning to both the perpetrator and the intended victim.

It's the same principle as parenting, really: grounding isn't effective if you ground the child for seven years after they burp in public, because you lose leverage for more serious offenses.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,074
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6/12/2013 7:46:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/12/2013 6:47:27 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/12/2013 1:52:56 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/10/2013 5:43:54 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
My tipping scheme is as follows:

Poor Service: 15%
Decent service: 20%
Exceptional service: 25%

I have only left 10% once, and it was richly deserved. Let me first make it clear that I'm not exactly hard to deal with when I go out to eat. I've waited five minutes to politely ask for a fork, without penalizing the server for it, because it was a holiday and she was busy, but nonetheless pleasant, professional, and good with everything else. I've had my water spilled; apology accepted. I'm not going to give them the exceptional rate, but it's not like I've never dropped a flask at work. It happens. I'll give poor mostly for people who are rude to me, since I'm never rude to them. The one ten percent was for a waitress who flipped out on me because I nicely asked if I could please have a glass of water. My mother was a waitress for years, and I used to tip people who were rude 20%, and she would stop me and explain that it's not right to give them the same tip that you would someone who was polite and professional. So while I agree that leaving a penny or quarter tip is unforgivably rude and an egregious breach of taste, I do think that tips should follow some form of merit-based system. If my drink is perfect, my food is perfect, things come out on time, and the server is delightful to be around, I'm going to throw a bit extra in.

This is stupid, no offense.
If they give you bad service, you ought not tip them anything. It is difficult, but I have done it a handful of times.

The reason?
If they suck at their job to the point that a tip is unjustified except for "they work for tips", perhaps they should do better or get a new job. If a tip is a sort of incentive bonus, why should I pay you for a job you didn't perform well? Had I had the option, I would have self-served and been much happier with my ability to refill my water.

If I hire someone to wash my car every week, and they miss a spot one week, do I refuse to pay them? No. I go into the deal with the pretty common knowledge that humans are capable of making mistakes and accept the risk. The same holds true for servers. The tip is a means for punishing bad service and rewarding good service. I could see leaving a tip of $0 only if I were not served at all, or served in a horribly atrocious manner. Otherwise worse behavior could not be punished. If you say 'Oh, you rolled your eyes? NO TIP FOR YOU!', then what are you going to say when someone throws a drink in your space or flips your table over? The harshest punishments should be reserved for the harshest offenses to your dignity and your patronage. Anything less is, to borrow a phrase from you, just stupid, not to mention classless, rude, and demeaning to both the perpetrator and the intended victim.

It's the same principle as parenting, really: grounding isn't effective if you ground the child for seven years after they burp in public, because you lose leverage for more serious offenses.

Hmm. You bring up a good point. If I refuse to tip at the drop of a hat, it leaves me without an additional level of response to take if they were to do something truly heinous like flip the table, for example.

Very well, from this point forward if a server rolls his/her eyes at me, I won't tip them -- and if they do something worse, I'll cap their knees with a dinner plate.

Everybody wins =)
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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6/12/2013 8:35:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/12/2013 7:46:30 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
At 6/12/2013 6:47:27 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/12/2013 1:52:56 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/10/2013 5:43:54 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
My tipping scheme is as follows:

Poor Service: 15%
Decent service: 20%
Exceptional service: 25%

I have only left 10% once, and it was richly deserved. Let me first make it clear that I'm not exactly hard to deal with when I go out to eat. I've waited five minutes to politely ask for a fork, without penalizing the server for it, because it was a holiday and she was busy, but nonetheless pleasant, professional, and good with everything else. I've had my water spilled; apology accepted. I'm not going to give them the exceptional rate, but it's not like I've never dropped a flask at work. It happens. I'll give poor mostly for people who are rude to me, since I'm never rude to them. The one ten percent was for a waitress who flipped out on me because I nicely asked if I could please have a glass of water. My mother was a waitress for years, and I used to tip people who were rude 20%, and she would stop me and explain that it's not right to give them the same tip that you would someone who was polite and professional. So while I agree that leaving a penny or quarter tip is unforgivably rude and an egregious breach of taste, I do think that tips should follow some form of merit-based system. If my drink is perfect, my food is perfect, things come out on time, and the server is delightful to be around, I'm going to throw a bit extra in.

This is stupid, no offense.
If they give you bad service, you ought not tip them anything. It is difficult, but I have done it a handful of times.

The reason?
If they suck at their job to the point that a tip is unjustified except for "they work for tips", perhaps they should do better or get a new job. If a tip is a sort of incentive bonus, why should I pay you for a job you didn't perform well? Had I had the option, I would have self-served and been much happier with my ability to refill my water.

If I hire someone to wash my car every week, and they miss a spot one week, do I refuse to pay them? No. I go into the deal with the pretty common knowledge that humans are capable of making mistakes and accept the risk. The same holds true for servers. The tip is a means for punishing bad service and rewarding good service. I could see leaving a tip of $0 only if I were not served at all, or served in a horribly atrocious manner. Otherwise worse behavior could not be punished. If you say 'Oh, you rolled your eyes? NO TIP FOR YOU!', then what are you going to say when someone throws a drink in your space or flips your table over? The harshest punishments should be reserved for the harshest offenses to your dignity and your patronage. Anything less is, to borrow a phrase from you, just stupid, not to mention classless, rude, and demeaning to both the perpetrator and the intended victim.

It's the same principle as parenting, really: grounding isn't effective if you ground the child for seven years after they burp in public, because you lose leverage for more serious offenses.

Hmm. You bring up a good point. If I refuse to tip at the drop of a hat, it leaves me without an additional level of response to take if they were to do something truly heinous like flip the table, for example.

Very well, from this point forward if a server rolls his/her eyes at me, I won't tip them -- and if they do something worse, I'll cap their knees with a dinner plate.

Everybody wins =)

"So long as they don't flip my table" is quite the low bar, frankly. Service below the level which deserves no tip (which isn't rock bottom) should be dealt with by means of other punishments that don't place any burden on the customer...such as firing the bad waiter.
rross
Posts: 2,772
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6/13/2013 5:26:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
In countries where there's no tipping, I barely even notice the waiting staff. If I don't get the right food, I'll go up and ask for it. After all, the food's what you're there for. But in the US, I'm immediately thinking about and fussing over my welcome and my "experience". It's really bad for you, I think. I mean, honestly, to even be thinking 'oh she didn't smile at me enough - that's only a 15%'. What an idiot it makes you.

It's bad to be around people whose livelihoods depend on sucking up to you. Waiters should be paid a decent salary in the first place. And if they're exceptionally skilled, their employers will pay extra to keep them.

That's why I'm against prostitution too. Men shouldn't pay a fee and then feel entitled to sex and get righteously annoyed if they don't get what they want. It's so bad for them. Sex shouldn't be thought of as a one-sided experience, and that you can dispense with consideration of the other side with a small fee.

Personally, when I'm in the US, I try to tip a predetermined percentage no matter what. Even when taxi drivers get sleazy, and once one was even yelling at me, I still tipped him 10%. That's the fee. Otherwise, imagine rating taxi drivers on their conversation and behavior! Why should I have to even waste mental space assessing that? Their job is to drive the car. If they do it, they get paid. That's how it should be.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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6/13/2013 9:04:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
In Japan, if you were to try and tip wait staff, they would be confused as to why they were being paid extra. Most countries don't do tipping, the business just has the courtesy to pay the wait staff a decent wage.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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6/13/2013 4:37:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"...the business just has the courtesy to pay the wait staff a decent wage."

The only reason American waiters don't get a high base pay from the establishment is because tips are taken into account. Also, I bet most waiters prefer the tip system with low base pay.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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6/13/2013 4:39:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/13/2013 4:37:46 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
"...the business just has the courtesy to pay the wait staff a decent wage."

The only reason American waiters don't get a high base pay from the establishment is because tips are taken into account. Also, I bet most waiters prefer the tip system with low base pay.

*higher
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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6/13/2013 4:40:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"In Japan, if you were to try and tip wait staff, they would be confused as to why they were being paid extra. "

Yes.... because the 'tip' is included in their base pay. Tipping them would be like tipping twice, which would confuse anyone.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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6/13/2013 5:13:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So now they leave a quarter. It used to be a dime. Inflation.

In Japan there is no tipping and service is very good. In Europe there is no tipping and service is often poor. In the US I usually just add the 15%, but if there is extraordinarily good or bad service I make an exception. If a meal is really cheap, it seems to me fair to tip extra because there is the same amount of work bringing a bowl of oatmeal as bringing steak.

At any level, serving customers can be a challenge. Some always want more than they paid for or deserve, but most are decent. Managing the difficult ones is tough.

My wife taught me that in a Chinese restaurant, you can ask the waiter if a certain item is good and he will tell you. The answer may be a slight shake of the head or a suggestion of something different, but he's somehow ethically obligated to know and to tell you. Moreover, ridiculous questions like "Is this pork dish better than this chicken dish?" will get a good answer measured on some absolute scale of culinary perfection. I would have never guessed the system, but it works reliably. Try it. Not so much in non-Chinese restaurants.