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The Zimmerman Case, Race, and Honesty

charleslb
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7/9/2013 7:37:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
George Zimmerman, essentially, was an overzealous neighborhood watch wanker (overcompensating for his emasculating fear of the criminal element, and for his unmanly "softness", to borrow an adjective from his self-defense trainer), whose worldview includes a certain common, middle-class white person's stereotype of what a "bleeping punk" looks like. That is, yes, he did indeed "profile" his victim. And yes, there certainly is a racial element to the layman's profile (Zimmerman may have taken criminology classes but he doesn't qualify as anything more than a slightly educated layman and civilian) that guided Zimmerman to zero in on Trayvon Martin.

However, despite the manifest illegitimacy and underlying bias of Zimmerman's choice to focus his masculine insecurity complex and vigilance on a young black male in a hoodie who closely resembled his image of a thieving thug, once a confrontation had been initiated the decedent, Trayvon Martin, although not a juvenile delinquent or an individual with a history of violence, apparently did react in an adrenaline and testosterone driven fashion (like the ordinary teenage male that he was), and engaged Mr. Zimmerman in fisticuffs, inflicting some bit of violence on him, which caused him to reasonably fear for his life. Ergo, even if only subjectively, the shooting was an act of self-defense and George Zimmerman should not be found guilty of the crime of second degree murder. It was in fact an error for the district attorney to seek a conviction on that particular charge, manslaughter would have been more of a winning proposition for a prosecutor.

And yes, it was obviously a politically driven error. However, no, dear rightists, it was not the putatively "liberal" media or any free-floating liberal sentiment in our society that's to blame for politicizing the case and influencing the Seminole County DA's office to opt for a second degree murder indictment in what should clearly have been a manslaughter case. Rather, it was the objective, grievous, and pervasive reality of racism in our society, and the politics and sensitivities generated by racism, that in turn generated the need for prosecutors, prosecutors who spend their days and careers consigning blacks and other ethnic casualties of our capitalist system's inequities to those institutions of social control called prisons, to overcompensatingly seek to appear to be keen on justice for a wrongfully killed young person of color by filing the stiffest possible charges. Well then, since it's indeed unlikely that a jury will be able to reasonably convict on second degree murder, it would alas appear that Zimmerman will get off scot-free despite having precipitated an incident that resulted in an unnecessary and unjustifiable act of homicide. Yet another miscarriage of justice, at the root of which is our society's race problem.

At any rate, it can be conceded that the killing of Trayvon Martin was not second degree murder, but neither was it an instance of innocent and justifiable life-taking. A human being, a child, was terminated with extreme prejudice. Pun intended, as it was indeed prejudice that caused Zimmerman to fix his interest on an African American adolescent attired in a "street" fashion. Zimmerman's prejudice may not be that of a hard-core racist. He may not harbor deap-seated animosity against blacks in general, or subscribe to Ku-Kluxer ideology. However, his mentality, like that of a great many people, does seem to be skewed by stereotypes, to be subject to certain race-related cognitive biases and distortions, i.e., inclined to jump to unwarranted suspicions, to see black hoodlums when one sees black hoodies. You know what I'm talking about, the sort of Negrophobia that induces elderly Caucasian ladies to clutch their handbags when they observe a black man walking in their direction, and that makes macho white suburban males go into a territorial protective mode when they spot a chromatically out-of-place dark-skinned person in their gated community.

Such Negrophobia isn't exactly bigotry, per se, but it is on the same spectrum, and it does stem from assumptions that our society's racism fosters. Now then, George Zimmerman may only be guilty of Negrophobia, he may not be the sort of card-carrying racist cracker who, on account of racially intolerant attitudes, had the "ill will, hatred, spite or an evil intent" required by Florida law for him to be guilty of 2nd degree murder, but he most certainly does have a psychology shaped by America's racist history and ongoing issues. And so do all too many white folks, hence their identification with Zimmerman and their inclination to justify his actions to the point of absolving him of virtually all wrongdoing.

Which is all to say that race is absolutely relevant to the entire episode now playing out on reality TV. It was a pertinent bit of psychological backstory, i.e. a factor in the formation of Zimmerman's attitudes, the attitudes that manifested in his Negrophobically paranoid overreaction to the innocent presence of Trayvon Martin in his neighborhood. And it's highly, if unstatedly, relevant to the white public's perspective on and response to the case. Being in denial about this is of course a kind of bad faith and BS that whites go in for, to acknowledge the endemic anti-black racism of our society would be to acknowledge complicity, after all. And so any mention of racism is met with dismissive eye-rolling or a defensive denunciation of blacks and "liberals" who "play the race card". Then of course there's also the sad human fact that a high percentage of human beings are simply not great empathizers. What this means for race relations is that empthy-deficient white people are not in short supply and certainly aren't a force for our society's growth in the direction of truth and justice. Their lack of the ability to compassionately identify with the plight of African Americans reveals itself in everything from their knee-jerk dismissal of the black community's expression of racial sensitivities around a case like the one currently being adjudicated in Florida, to their opposition to affirmative action and other legislation designed to protect the rights of minorities.

Even more empathy-challenged and predisposed to blame blacks for their own tragedies are of course those whites, found on the conservative side of the spectrum, who suffer from a social-Darwinian mentality and attribution bias that views people in an inferior social position who decry being victims of social and racial injustice as inferior whiners who need to accept responsibility for their own unhappy fate. Individuals with this rightist outlook quite predictably fall back on the pop-psych concept of a "victim complex" to explain away any charges of racism brought against our society by its genuine victims of discrimination, and are prone to admonish blacks and other disadvantaged groups to stop complaining and to "pull themselves up by their own bootstraps". Mm-hmm, a case such as the Zimmerman case naturally elicits precious little sympathy for a dead victim from right-wingers of this psychological ilk, as they're innately more inclined to assign full blame to underclass minorities for their own misfortunes.

Yes, to be fair, it's not that such Darwinian rightists, and others, are necessarily racist (althought there's a tellingly high incidence of racism in the conservative camp), they merely suffer from a not exactly negligible deficit of understanding and sensitivity (which of course explains why they like to mock sensitivity). However, although not every white person who expresses unfeeling, judgmental, and borderline-bigoted attitudes on the topic of race, or who agrees with George Zimmerman's perception of Trayvon Martin as a "bleeping punk" and "A-hole" is an authentic racist, they and their

Continued below
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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7/9/2013 7:38:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Conclusion

mental attitudes are a part of the persisting problem rather than a contribution to change, to the enlightened evolution of our society beyond racism.

The upshot is that although Zimmerman perhaps isn't the racist villain that some might simplistically view him as, and although he arguably doesn't deserve to be convicted of second degree homicide, he did take an innocent young human life as a result of an incident that his racially-stereotyping mentality caused him to needlessly initiate. And although not all of his staunch white apologists are deeply racist either, they too need to honestly examine where their own lack of empathy and blame-the-victim attitude really comes from. Unless people begin to do this on an individual basis our society will never outgrow racial bigotry and injustice.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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7/9/2013 7:46:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Sorry if I've offended any hypocritically sensitive conservatives.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
tulle
Posts: 4,445
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7/9/2013 9:14:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/9/2013 7:46:11 PM, charleslb wrote:
Sorry if I've offended any hypocritically sensitive conservatives.

lol I may start saying this.
yang.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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7/9/2013 9:22:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/9/2013 7:46:11 PM, charleslb wrote:
Sorry if I've offended any hypocritically sensitive conservatives.
My blinding them after seeing your post, or?
charleslb
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7/9/2013 11:34:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/9/2013 9:14:55 PM, tulle wrote:
At 7/9/2013 7:46:11 PM, charleslb wrote:
Sorry if I've offended any hypocritically sensitive conservatives.

lol I may start saying this.

Feel free to.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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7/9/2013 11:36:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/9/2013 9:22:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 7/9/2013 7:46:11 PM, charleslb wrote:
Sorry if I've offended any hypocritically sensitive conservatives.
My blinding them after seeing your post, or?

Well, did you read the post or were you "blinded" by it? If you indeed read it do you perhaps have any on-topic thoughts that you would care to share?
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
DetectableNinja
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7/9/2013 11:40:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Not enough time to reply substantively/to the post as a whole, but the first comment I have is that you try and apply the case as being in part a result of the stereotypical white middle class mentality. However, Zimmerman doesn't even identify as white himself. He identifies as hispanic/latino. Although race could have been a driving force behind the incident itself (hispanic and black), and you could possibly point to the issue of Zimmerman being a middle class man, it sounds like you're trying to bring in the trite white and black conflict and somehow make it apply here.

Again, a bit of a nitpick, but it's an isolated response to just the very beginning of the post.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
charleslb
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7/9/2013 11:56:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
By the way, I recently saw an interview of Trayvon Martin's stepmother, who apparently was for many years more of a parent to him than his bio-mom, and she essentially took the same position, that Zimmerman is probably not an actual racist in the sense of being a hater, but that he most certainly did profile Trayvon Martin based on a stereotype with racial features. Ergo the crime was not a racially-motivated homicide, but race is absolutely relevant. To deny this is to once again turn race into that dangerous rogue elephant in the public sphere that everyone is bizarrely expected to ignore lest he-she be accused of "playing the race card".
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
ConservativeAmerican
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7/10/2013 12:18:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I read most of this, and it can be refuted by the fact that Zimmerman was Latino, more so then white.

He also saw TV trespassing and peeking through houses.

Read the testimony by Zimmerman here, refutes a lot of your BS.

Most of it hasn't been disproven.

http://www.hlntv.com...
Noumena
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7/10/2013 12:32:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think this post was actually reasonably written (good job Charlie!). Though I take issue with a few points I'm on my phone so I'll respond more in depth tomorrow.

But first @DNinja, the fact that Zimmerman wasn't white doesn't necessarily mean he didn't subscribe to a "white middle class mentality" (I think that's how Charlie phrased it). It's a Marxist thing. In capitalist society, (essentially) class distinctions eventually take over those of race on this account. I figure the fact that anyone who's watched the news in the last year knows Zimmerman is Hispanic would make it obvious that there was more than the "he's white" card at work in the OP.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
charleslb
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7/10/2013 12:34:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/9/2013 11:40:52 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
Not enough time to reply substantively/to the post as a whole, but the first comment I have is that you try and apply the case as being in part a result of the stereotypical white middle class mentality. However, Zimmerman doesn't even identify as white himself. He identifies as hispanic/latino. Although race could have been a driving force behind the incident itself (hispanic and black), and you could possibly point to the issue of Zimmerman being a middle class man, it sounds like you're trying to bring in the trite white and black conflict and somehow make it apply here.

Again, a bit of a nitpick, but it's an isolated response to just the very beginning of the post.

Firstly, the racial make-up or self-identity of Zimmerman, the fact that he isn't exactly going to be joining hands with neo-Nazis in a spirit of Aryan solidarity, doesn't negate the possibility that his psyche contains certain racialist attitudes and stereotypes whose derivation is from a mentality about race common among white folk and seen in an extreme form in many white right-wingers. Secondly, the OP deals largely not with Zimmerman's personal racial attitudes, but with the relevance of race to the case. (And, btw, yes, there is certainly such a phenomena as anti-black racism in the Hispanic community, but it's largely internalized racism directed and projected outward at a fellow non-Caucasoid Other, and is also partially a legacy of racialist attitudes implanted in the Latin American psyche under Spanish rule [Spanish imperialists were quite the white supremacists, after all; initially the conquistadors didn't even recognize the humanity of the native population, viewing them as subhuman beasts]. Which is to say that Hispanic anti-black bigotry indeed owes much to white racism. At any rate, focusing narrowly on Hispanic anti-black racism is bad faith, i.e. a lame way of dodging the real issuses.)
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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7/10/2013 12:38:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 12:18:23 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
I read most of this, and it can be refuted by the fact that Zimmerman was Latino, more so then white.

He also saw TV trespassing and peeking through houses.

Read the testimony by Zimmerman here, refutes a lot of your BS.

Most of it hasn't been disproven.

http://www.hlntv.com...

See my above reply to DetectableNinja, and Noumena's reply.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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7/10/2013 12:53:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Typo correction, "... (And, btw, yes, there is certainly such a phenomena as ..." should of course read ... (And, btw, yes, there is certainly such a phenomenon as ...
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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7/10/2013 12:58:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 12:32:13 AM, Noumena wrote:
I think this post was actually reasonably written (good job Charlie!). Though I take issue with a few points I'm on my phone so I'll respond more in depth tomorrow.

But first @DNinja, the fact that Zimmerman wasn't white doesn't necessarily mean he didn't subscribe to a "white middle class mentality" (I think that's how Charlie phrased it). It's a Marxist thing. In capitalist society, (essentially) class distinctions eventually take over those of race on this account. I figure the fact that anyone who's watched the news in the last year knows Zimmerman is Hispanic would make it obvious that there was more than the "he's white" card at work in the OP.

Thank you for an open-minded reply.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
drhead
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7/10/2013 1:47:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 12:18:23 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
I read most of this, and it can be refuted by the fact that Zimmerman was Latino, more so then white.

He also saw TV trespassing and peeking through houses.

Read the testimony by Zimmerman here, refutes a lot of your BS.

Most of it hasn't been disproven.

http://www.hlntv.com...

Oh, so latinos aren't allowed to be racist? Okay.

I'm sorry, but there's no dismissing that if, instead of a black guy wearing a hoodie, he saw a white guy wearing a polo shirt and cargo pants, he probably would not have had the same reaction. This is that influence by racial stereotypes that is being talked about.
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DetectableNinja
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7/10/2013 9:32:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 12:32:13 AM, Noumena wrote:
I think this post was actually reasonably written (good job Charlie!). Though I take issue with a few points I'm on my phone so I'll respond more in depth tomorrow.

But first @DNinja, the fact that Zimmerman wasn't white doesn't necessarily mean he didn't subscribe to a "white middle class mentality" (I think that's how Charlie phrased it). It's a Marxist thing. In capitalist society, (essentially) class distinctions eventually take over those of race on this account. I figure the fact that anyone who's watched the news in the last year knows Zimmerman is Hispanic would make it obvious that there was more than the "he's white" card at work in the OP.

Again, like I said IN THE POST, that's just a response to a single part of the OP, not the OP itself. Of course there's more at work in the OP.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
charleslb
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7/10/2013 1:10:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 1:47:33 AM, drhead wrote:

I'm sorry, but there's no dismissing that if, instead of a black guy wearing a hoodie, he saw a white guy wearing a polo shirt and cargo pants, he probably would not have had the same reaction. This is that influence by racial stereotypes that is being talked about.

Precisely.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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7/10/2013 1:16:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 9:32:39 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:32:13 AM, Noumena wrote:
I think this post was actually reasonably written (good job Charlie!). Though I take issue with a few points I'm on my phone so I'll respond more in depth tomorrow.

But first @DNinja, the fact that Zimmerman wasn't white doesn't necessarily mean he didn't subscribe to a "white middle class mentality" (I think that's how Charlie phrased it). It's a Marxist thing. In capitalist society, (essentially) class distinctions eventually take over those of race on this account. I figure the fact that anyone who's watched the news in the last year knows Zimmerman is Hispanic would make it obvious that there was more than the "he's white" card at work in the OP.

Again, like I said IN THE POST, that's just a response to a single part of the OP, not the OP itself. Of course there's more at work in the OP.

I look forward to reading your thoughts on the various points that I touch on in the OP.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
rockwater
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7/10/2013 2:27:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 12:18:23 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
I read most of this, and it can be refuted by the fact that Zimmerman was Latino, more so then white.

He also saw TV trespassing and peeking through houses.

Read the testimony by Zimmerman here, refutes a lot of your BS.

Most of it hasn't been disproven.

http://www.hlntv.com...

One: A person can be both Latino and white. Regardless of his ancestry, how Zimmerman identifies is up to him (and I have no idea how he identified himself prior to the shooting.
Not only can any race be racist against another, but among Latinos there is often racism directed against blacks, including racism against black Latinos and racism by Latinos that have at least partial African ancestry (but who do not idenitify as black) against African Americans. White/black racial issues certainly apply to the Zimmerman case, because Zimmerman grew up here in a society where many non-African Americans identify with the racial attitudes some whites have against African Americans. I say this as a white, half Latino with a non-Latino last name who is certainly guilty of having racist thought from time to time. Just because I have those thoughts does not mean I approve of them, not should I speak or act on them.
charleslb
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7/10/2013 2:39:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 2:27:08 PM, rockwater wrote:
At 7/10/2013 12:18:23 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
I read most of this, and it can be refuted by the fact that Zimmerman was Latino, more so then white.

He also saw TV trespassing and peeking through houses.

Read the testimony by Zimmerman here, refutes a lot of your BS.

Most of it hasn't been disproven.

http://www.hlntv.com...

One: A person can be both Latino and white. Regardless of his ancestry, how Zimmerman identifies is up to him (and I have no idea how he identified himself prior to the shooting.
Not only can any race be racist against another, but among Latinos there is often racism directed against blacks, including racism against black Latinos and racism by Latinos that have at least partial African ancestry (but who do not idenitify as black) against African Americans. White/black racial issues certainly apply to the Zimmerman case, because Zimmerman grew up here in a society where many non-African Americans identify with the racial attitudes some whites have against African Americans. I say this as a white, half Latino with a non-Latino last name who is certainly guilty of having racist thought from time to time. Just because I have those thoughts does not mean I approve of them, not should I speak or act on them.

Thank you for making some excellent and honest points.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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7/10/2013 2:46:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
First off, racism deniers, the loophole that Zimmerman is half Hispanic is not exactly an effective way of undercutting the various points that I make in the OP, so I would advise that you-all discard that one. And secondly, if I haven't made myself sufficiently clear in the OP, no, the race issue hasn't reared its repugnant head in connection with the current case of the hour because racism is an illusion that we allegedly wrong-minded sowers of discord on the left are wont to promote. Rather, racial profiling, discrimination, injustice, race-related poverty, and other expressions of racism are indeed the reality of life in our society for a great many people of color, and so it simply stands to reason that they have race on their minds and suspect the relevance of race to George Zimmerman's response to Trayvon Martin walking through his community in his black hoodie and skin. Mm-hmm, such is reality, vis-a-vis the issue of race, begin facing it forthrightly, rightists and other racism deniers, and stop looking for lame loopholes.

(Btw, is my OP so reasonable that the ole Zimmerman-isn't-pure-white argument is the best that my philosophical foes can come up with? Thus far this appears to be the case.)
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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7/10/2013 3:21:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Some of these points are legitimate and I agree with them, others not so much.

I have to work over tonight so I can't reply to a charlesb post atm (lel), but I will try to sometime tonight.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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7/10/2013 3:43:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 3:21:38 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Some of these points are legitimate and I agree with them, ...

Thank you for having the integrity to say so.

I have to work over tonight so I can't reply to a charlesb post atm (lel), but I will try to sometime tonight.

I look forward to your substantive reply.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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7/10/2013 4:16:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Btw, no, Geo, black folks and leftists are not the "collectivist" barbarians of your ideology, who will predictably go on a riotous rampage when Zimmerman is acquitted. Your paranoid politics seem to be causing you to develop an almost clinical disconnect from reality.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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7/10/2013 11:06:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/10/2013 4:16:52 PM, charleslb wrote:
Btw, no, Geo, black folks and leftists are not the "collectivist" barbarians of your ideology, who will predictably go on a riotous rampage when Zimmerman is acquitted. Your paranoid politics seem to be causing you to develop an almost clinical disconnect from reality.

Yep, either, for a change, you-all have no real arguments with my OP; or, perhaps, the topic simply isn't of that much interest.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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7/16/2013 1:42:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well, it's hardly a genuine surprise that prosecutors who specialize in incarcerating young black males (i.e. in performing a service to the capitalist status quo by helping to neutralize the potentially troublesome or dissident poor and ethnic victims of its social inequities by subjecting them to that form of social control known as prison), not in seeking justice for them, would botch & blow the trial by overcharging (a flawed tendency that many punitive-minded prosecutors suffer from) and by failing to forthrightly face the case's racial dimensions (allowing jurors to remain in denial about the illegitimacy of Zimmerman's version of profiling, his stereotype-determined perception of and initial unfounded choice to approach his victim).

Yep, the outcome of the trial is no surprise at all. And it's precisely the sort of paradox that one would expect from a system that approached the case with hypocritical bad faith. It's a paradox because it's simultaneously both just and an outrage. That is, the verdict is indeed just because second degree murder was an inappropriate, extreme charge that George Zimmerman absolutely deserved to be acquitted of, and the manslaughter charge was added too late and facilely in the game. However, although he isn't a heinous murderer and the combative response of the decedent mitigatingly factored into the outcome of the incident, the defendant is certainly not free of sin, so to speak. Recall that he did unilaterally and unjustifiably provoke the incident that eventuated in the killing of an innocent boy; and, in the words of a former New York criminal prosecutor/CNN talking head, "He brought a gun to a fist fight", which in many jurisdictions would ipso facto suffice to make the killing of Trayvon Martin some manner of a wrongful homicide. Quite simply, Zimmerman did something wrong, he made a couple of choices that were seriously wrong, and consequently a human being was needlessly deprived of his human right to life. Ergo, for Zimmerman to walk without his actions receiving any kind of rebuke whatsoever from a system that loftily fancies itself a "justice system" is a true and tragic miscarriage of justice. But, again, it was an entirely predictable resolution.

The hypocrisy of the Seminole County DA's office, whose personnel (like the personnel of DA's offices throughout the country) spend a good deal of their time downplaying the youth of and villainizing African-American minors, i.e. promoting an unsympathetic image of and mentality about black youngsters, but who nevertheless in this case thinking it could pull off an incredible180 put most of its prosecutorial eggs in the bogus basket of eliciting sympathy for an adolescent of color (the prosecution pretty much unbrilliantly boiled much of its case down to "Convict George Zimmerman because Trayvon Martin was a kid with Skittles"; yeah, that was a real winner of a strategy!); the entire faux and phony "criminal justice system" itself, which is so geared in the opposite direction of showing compassion to and securing justice for black teens that its efforts in this case were unnatural, vitiated, and unsuccessful; to be pointed, the prosecution's abject political correctness, as it were, of catering to the white community's taboo against acknowledging the reality of racism by refraining from explicitly examining the illegitimate tacit racial basis of the kind of amateur criminal profiling that George Zimmerman engaged in (consequently, according to juror B-37, the question of race never even received mention in the course of the jury's deliberations!); and ultimately, the hypocrisy of a society that harbors and promotes fear of certain swarthy stereotypes and then seeks a conviction on excessively stiff criminal charges when some over-the-top character channels and acts on that fear; all of the above contributed to determining that the case would conclude with a miscarried verdict of not guilty that indicts our systemic and collective false consciousness on the issue of race, the vaunted beauty and inerrancy of our system of laws, and the supposed compatibility of truth and justice with the American way. In short, once again a high-profile criminal case with a racial element has inexorably provided our society with a bit of sad commentary on itself and an altogether disenchanting reality check. The only thing that remains to be seen is if it will lead to any positive change. Thoughts, everyone?
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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7/16/2013 8:09:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
It isn't right either that we should mock him or call him a "wanna-be cop" for profiling. We all profile. If I saw a stranger wearing a hoody in the middle of the night who looked similar to a lot of the people that have been causing crimes in my neighborhood, while I wouldn't go out of my way to disturb his life over it, I still wouldn't necessarily be eager to go shake his hand either. So can we all just knock this off? White people profile black people and sometimes other white people.Black people profile white people and other black people. Indians profile other indians. Hispanics profile asians and all other permutations of distrust that follow. It isn't some negative racist trait of Zimmerman's that led him to act on scanty evidence, and it's a dishonest conversation to sit here and pretend that this was outlandish act of discrimination that none of us are guilty of.

Does this mean that Trayvon should be dead? No. But if he initiated the violence, self-defense must follow. Simple as that.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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7/16/2013 3:15:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 8:09:50 AM, 000ike wrote:
It isn't right either that we should mock him or call him a "wanna-be cop" for profiling. We all profile. If I saw a stranger wearing a hoody in the middle of the night who looked similar to a lot of the people that have been causing crimes in my neighborhood, while I wouldn't go out of my way to disturb his life over it, I still wouldn't necessarily be eager to go shake his hand either. So can we all just knock this off? White people profile black people and sometimes other white people.Black people profile white people and other black people. Indians profile other indians. Hispanics profile asians and all other permutations of distrust that follow. It isn't some negative racist trait of Zimmerman's that led him to act on scanty evidence, and it's a dishonest conversation to sit here and pretend that this was outlandish act of discrimination that none of us are guilty of.

Does this mean that Trayvon should be dead? No. But if he initiated the violence, self-defense must follow. Simple as that.

The fundamental point is that racial stereotypes do factor into the way both civilians and law enforcement officers practice "profiling", and this simply isn't legitimate or something divorceable from our personal and societal issues around the question of race.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.