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Pornography

rockwater
Posts: 273
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7/24/2013 9:39:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm not that receptive of the argument that pornography (which I define as the distribution, for money or for free) of media that show people in sexual activity, sexually aroused, or nude in a way to elicit sexual arousal in the viewer) is inherently degrading to women or enforces an unrealistic view of sex and the human body, since I am a big fan of pornography involving overweight middle-aged men who are not bears. If any women or thin men are in pornography, I find them distracting. I am unsure, though, whether SELLING or BUYING pornography is moral or not because it seems almost identical to prostitution. Instead of paying someone to have sex with you, you pay for people to have sex on camera. In some cases, the producer of the pornography (who gets to keep the profits) stars in the film and pays people (who sometimes they find from searching prostitution ads) to have sex with them on camera. Because of the huge social stigma associated with appearing in pornography, people often only do it if they are desperate or have been exposed to the industry by being victims of sex trafficking or sexual abuse. That said, there are people who earn money by appearing in pornography who are not drug addicts, who do not also engage in prostitution, who have never been trafficked or abused, who are mentally stable and confident, and who are not ashamed of doing so. When a person pays for pornography - s/he usually does not know what the situation is of the people appearing in it. This is true with free (non-pirated) pornography as well, but at least the people in it are not appearing in it because of financial necessity.

There are other arguments about the morality of pornography - that sex should be private, that only committed or married couples should see each other naked in a sexual way, that the human body and sex are demeaned when they are commodified or objectified, and that producing sexually explicit material for consumption encourages the consumers to view sex as obtaining instant gratification, satisfying specific personal tastes, or (in some but not all pornography), being a violent or humiliating form of subjugation of the partner(s). I disagree with the first two points and am not sure that all pornography, especially free pornography produced by people in committed relationships, is characterized by these criticisms.

As a last point, I do think that anyone who wants to consume pornography should be willing to appear in it him/herself. This troubles me because I want to be a teacher but if there were sexually explicit content of me on the Internet, even if it were behind an adults-only pay or membership wall and even if my name and contact information were not linked to it, I could lose my job if it were discovered. I feel that this is deeply unjust - sexual expression amonf consenting adults on parts of the Internet children are not allowed to access (whether they illicitly manage to access it or not) is part of people's private lives in the modern era and should not factor into people's employment. (Don't compare this to politicians - electing someone is different than hiring them for a job, and betrayal of one's spouse if different than appearing in pornography with a spouse's approval.)

Thoughts?
llamainmypocket
Posts: 253
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7/25/2013 4:13:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think it's much more simple than we are inclined to make it. Pornography degrades the integrity of the family unit and fidelity of couples therefore it is bad.

I recognize your point that it isn't necessarily victimizing women or leading to drug use. I also recognize that pornography can also have an objective good as an act of mercy to those who are single.

The issue of our society is that it's a society of couples with families and pornography is negative for the family unit therefore it's negative for society.

Please don't confuse this assertion for a personal judgment of people. That's not my point. It is possible to have a net gain by lying and it can therefore be concluded as an objective good but I'd still say lying is wrong.

You can challenge my assertion on the negative impact on the family unit or fidelity of couples but it degrades the integrity of these relationships so it must be equally bad as that degradation.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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7/25/2013 4:32:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 4:13:34 PM, llamainmypocket wrote:
I think it's much more simple than we are inclined to make it. Pornography degrades the integrity of the family unit and fidelity of couples therefore it is bad.

I recognize your point that it isn't necessarily victimizing women or leading to drug use. I also recognize that pornography can also have an objective good as an act of mercy to those who are single.

The issue of our society is that it's a society of couples with families and pornography is negative for the family unit therefore it's negative for society.

Please don't confuse this assertion for a personal judgment of people. That's not my point. It is possible to have a net gain by lying and it can therefore be concluded as an objective good but I'd still say lying is wrong.

You can challenge my assertion on the negative impact on the family unit or fidelity of couples but it degrades the integrity of these relationships so it must be equally bad as that degradation.

What makes the family unit so special? More urgently, what IS a family unit? What do we define as a family?

Why is fidelity of couples important?

And further, if you recommend governmental intervention into the pornography industry, why is it the government's right and obligation to act coercively on the behalf of an abstract, vague idea?
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
llamainmypocket
Posts: 253
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7/25/2013 5:04:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 4:32:29 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 7/25/2013 4:13:34 PM, llamainmypocket wrote:
I think it's much more simple than we are inclined to make it. Pornography degrades the integrity of the family unit and fidelity of couples therefore it is bad.

I recognize your point that it isn't necessarily victimizing women or leading to drug use. I also recognize that pornography can also have an objective good as an act of mercy to those who are single.

The issue of our society is that it's a society of couples with families and pornography is negative for the family unit therefore it's negative for society.

Please don't confuse this assertion for a personal judgment of people. That's not my point. It is possible to have a net gain by lying and it can therefore be concluded as an objective good but I'd still say lying is wrong.

You can challenge my assertion on the negative impact on the family unit or fidelity of couples but it degrades the integrity of these relationships so it must be equally bad as that degradation.

What makes the family unit so special? More urgently, what IS a family unit? What do we define as a family?

It's not special. It's normal. If we had a society of bachelors who can't get laid then we may have a very different conclusion.

Why is fidelity of couples important?

Because that's what couples want. Don't ask me why. I suspect monogamy comes naturally.


And further, if you recommend governmental intervention into the pornography industry, why is it the government's right and obligation to act coercively on the behalf of an abstract, vague idea?

I don't recommend governmental intervention into the porn industry. I would advocate against such intervention.

I'm not taking a con approach to the presence of porn in society. I'm simply saying it's a bad thing. Such as lying or farting in an elevator.
rockwater
Posts: 273
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7/25/2013 6:31:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 4:13:34 PM, llamainmypocket wrote:
I think it's much more simple than we are inclined to make it. Pornography degrades the integrity of the family unit and fidelity of couples therefore it is bad.

I recognize your point that it isn't necessarily victimizing women or leading to drug use. I also recognize that pornography can also have an objective good as an act of mercy to those who are single.

The issue of our society is that it's a society of couples with families and pornography is negative for the family unit therefore it's negative for society.

Please don't confuse this assertion for a personal judgment of people. That's not my point. It is possible to have a net gain by lying and it can therefore be concluded as an objective good but I'd still say lying is wrong.

You can challenge my assertion on the negative impact on the family unit or fidelity of couples but it degrades the integrity of these relationships so it must be equally bad as that degradation.

Is your criticism of pornography that it makes more likely that spouses will cheat on each other? Or that it lessens or otherwise impairs spouses' attraction to each other? Neither of those are the case with me and my husband. Or are there other ways that you claim porn hurts the integrity of the family unit?
Df0512
Posts: 966
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7/25/2013 7:52:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 4:32:29 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 7/25/2013 4:13:34 PM, llamainmypocket wrote:
I think it's much more simple than we are inclined to make it. Pornography degrades the integrity of the family unit and fidelity of couples therefore it is bad.

I recognize your point that it isn't necessarily victimizing women or leading to drug use. I also recognize that pornography can also have an objective good as an act of mercy to those who are single.

The issue of our society is that it's a society of couples with families and pornography is negative for the family unit therefore it's negative for society.

Please don't confuse this assertion for a personal judgment of people. That's not my point. It is possible to have a net gain by lying and it can therefore be concluded as an objective good but I'd still say lying is wrong.

You can challenge my assertion on the negative impact on the family unit or fidelity of couples but it degrades the integrity of these relationships so it must be equally bad as that degradation.

What makes the family unit so special? More urgently, what IS a family unit? What do we define as a family?


Do you seriously not know what a family is? Why does the concept of family need to be explored?