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The solution to racism...

Jack212
Posts: 572
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7/25/2013 6:05:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
... is to stop talking about race. We don't talk about cat breeds, and race is no different. We need to stop blaming race for things.

If a black kid fails school and gets into drugs, it's because he's messed up. It's not because the system is racist.

If a guy kills a family of Asians, it's because he's a psycho. It's not because he's racist.

If some redneck yells the N-word at a black family, it's because he's an a$$hole. It's not because he's racist.

If a boss hires a white guy over a black guy, it's because he liked the white guy more. It's not because he's racist.

If some cops beat up a Mexican dude, it's because they're abusive and unfit to be cops. It's not because they're racist.

Put the blame where it belongs. Race/racism isn't to blame, people are. Blaming the group puts them on the defensive and takes the spotlight off the individual, whom the group would otherwise condemn.
DetectableNinja
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7/25/2013 6:08:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Would that include ever recognizing race on, say, government documents?

Also, if it was found that a person killed another person because of race, would we not consider that a hate crime?

These aren't challenges at all, I'm just wondering.
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rockwater
Posts: 273
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7/25/2013 6:26:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The OP has a lot of black and white thinking in it (pun not intended). I many cases of racial discrimination, racialist thinking is part of the discriminator's reasoning but not the only factor. So the the situations mentioned by the OP could be because of both the reasons mentioned and because of racialist attitudes.

Acknowledging that there is no consistent and significant biological basis to race does not require believing that racism does not exist. In addition, just because people accused of racism often do not think that race is playing an important role in their thinking does not mean that racialist attitudes are not working at subconscious level. Finally, just because people thought to be the victims of racial injustice sometimes make very poor decisions does not mean that race has played some factor in the opportunities and repercussions they have had.
Poetaster
Posts: 587
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7/25/2013 6:48:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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7/25/2013 6:57:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 6:05:11 PM, Jack212 wrote:

If some redneck yells the N-word at a black family, it's because he's an a$$hole. It's not because he's racist.

exactly what do you think racism is, then? It's not some magic word that pits one race against another. It's a specific behavior with specific motivations that could be applied to anyone of any race. A redneck insulting a black family for being black IS a racist.
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dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
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7/25/2013 7:09:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 6:05:11 PM, Jack212 wrote:
... is to stop talking about race. We don't talk about cat breeds, and race is no different. We need to stop blaming race for things.

If a black kid fails school and gets into drugs, it's because he's messed up. It's not because the system is racist.

If a guy kills a family of Asians, it's because he's a psycho. It's not because he's racist.

If some redneck yells the N-word at a black family, it's because he's an a$$hole. It's not because he's racist.

If a boss hires a white guy over a black guy, it's because he liked the white guy more. It's not because he's racist.

If some cops beat up a Mexican dude, it's because they're abusive and unfit to be cops. It's not because they're racist.

Put the blame where it belongs. Race/racism isn't to blame, people are. Blaming the group puts them on the defensive and takes the spotlight off the individual, whom the group would otherwise condemn.

You are declaring racism needs to be fixed while denying the existence of it altogether!
THE_OPINIONATOR
Posts: 575
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7/25/2013 7:36:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 7:09:34 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 7/25/2013 6:05:11 PM, Jack212 wrote:
... is to stop talking about race. We don't talk about cat breeds, and race is no different. We need to stop blaming race for things.

If a black kid fails school and gets into drugs, it's because he's messed up. It's not because the system is racist.

If a guy kills a family of Asians, it's because he's a psycho. It's not because he's racist.

If some redneck yells the N-word at a black family, it's because he's an a$$hole. It's not because he's racist.

If a boss hires a white guy over a black guy, it's because he liked the white guy more. It's not because he's racist.

If some cops beat up a Mexican dude, it's because they're abusive and unfit to be cops. It's not because they're racist.

Put the blame where it belongs. Race/racism isn't to blame, people are. Blaming the group puts them on the defensive and takes the spotlight off the individual, whom the group would otherwise condemn.

You are declaring racism needs to be fixed while denying the existence of it altogether!

You can't fix what doesn't exist...or can you?
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Df0512
Posts: 966
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7/25/2013 7:39:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 6:05:11 PM, Jack212 wrote:
... is to stop talking about race. We don't talk about cat breeds, and race is no different. We need to stop blaming race for things.

If a black kid fails school and gets into drugs, it's because he's messed up. It's not because the system is racist.

If a guy kills a family of Asians, it's because he's a psycho. It's not because he's racist.

If some redneck yells the N-word at a black family, it's because he's an a$$hole. It's not because he's racist.

If a boss hires a white guy over a black guy, it's because he liked the white guy more. It's not because he's racist.

If some cops beat up a Mexican dude, it's because they're abusive and unfit to be cops. It's not because they're racist.

Put the blame where it belongs. Race/racism isn't to blame, people are. Blaming the group puts them on the defensive and takes the spotlight off the individual, whom the group would otherwise condemn.

I hear what you saying and I agree to a point. We should definitely blame the individual. But not talking about wont necessarily make it go away. People as individuals or group will still be racist. Racial profiling would still happen, Trayvon Martin would still be dead. The only difference would be that no one would talk about it. That may even impact the issue negatively. Because then we would have more and more people thinking it is ok to be racist because no one would be talking about it. Talking about it wont necessarily make it go away either but it makes the public aware of the issue. And once the public knows we can work on changing peoples minds about it.
dylancatlow
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7/25/2013 7:40:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 7:36:58 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/25/2013 7:09:34 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 7/25/2013 6:05:11 PM, Jack212 wrote:
... is to stop talking about race. We don't talk about cat breeds, and race is no different. We need to stop blaming race for things.

If a black kid fails school and gets into drugs, it's because he's messed up. It's not because the system is racist.

If a guy kills a family of Asians, it's because he's a psycho. It's not because he's racist.

If some redneck yells the N-word at a black family, it's because he's an a$$hole. It's not because he's racist.

If a boss hires a white guy over a black guy, it's because he liked the white guy more. It's not because he's racist.

If some cops beat up a Mexican dude, it's because they're abusive and unfit to be cops. It's not because they're racist.

Put the blame where it belongs. Race/racism isn't to blame, people are. Blaming the group puts them on the defensive and takes the spotlight off the individual, whom the group would otherwise condemn.

You are declaring racism needs to be fixed while denying the existence of it altogether!

You can't fix what doesn't exist...or can you?

To be fair, he was saying racism only exists in claiming that it does, so there's not really a contradiction. It's still an absurd and ridiculous analysis, though.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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7/27/2013 3:22:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The only solution to racism is proper integration of those prejudiced against into society. People will always become what you make of them, and if you think ghetto when you think black, then that's what you're going to get. Just not talking about it is a silly idea. Not having any reason to consider it, however, isn't.
Cowboy0108
Posts: 420
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7/27/2013 6:50:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
There will always be racism. It is obvious that people tend to gravitate towards people who are similar to them. Skin color is a similarity.
For one, I think that an aid to the issue of racism would be to stop talking about slavery and making out to be like all black people aren't anything but descendants of slaves.
Jack212
Posts: 572
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7/27/2013 7:15:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I am not saying that we deny the existence of racism, nor am I saying that people cannot be motivated by racism. What I am saying is that racism isn't the problem, the problem is people acting on racism or using their race as an excuse to be jerks. Rather than blowing racism up into a big issue, we should respond with, "that is not an excuse for your behavior." It doesn't matter if a murder was committed because the guy was black or because he wouldn't give you his wallet, it's still murder and neither motive changes that.
AnDoctuir
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7/27/2013 7:49:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/27/2013 6:50:35 PM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
There will always be racism. It is obvious that people tend to gravitate towards people who are similar to them. Skin color is a similarity.
For one, I think that an aid to the issue of racism would be to stop talking about slavery and making out to be like all black people aren't anything but descendants of slaves.

This is a rather pessimistic view and I must say I disagree. Skin colour is supremely superficial and a few moments conversation can enlighten anyone to this.
Such
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7/27/2013 8:19:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/27/2013 6:50:35 PM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
There will always be racism. It is obvious that people tend to gravitate towards people who are similar to them. Skin color is a similarity.
For one, I think that an aid to the issue of racism would be to stop talking about slavery and making out to be like all black people aren't anything but descendants of slaves.

Well. There's a lot to say to this one.

First, your initial assertion suggests that all people are fundamentally homosexuals, as sex is also characteristic that can indicate similarity.

However, it's pretty clear that people are more inclined to consider cultural characteristics, rather than physical characteristics, an indication of similarity. Given that fact, although an American light -skinned person would probably enjoy to consider him or herself superior to an American dark-skinned person, neither of them could relate on a personal level with a European person as well as they could with one another.

This leads to the fact the cultural perception of "race" is based on a collective desire to maintain the perception, given it's purely conceptual. The fact is that a person's "race" is less relevant than his or her height, but there is still more attention paid to a person's "racial" appearance than his or her height, if only because it's a dubious means to credit a person's value.

In fact, the same can be said of gender -- although it's generally irrelevant, there is a lot of attention given to a person's gender, if only to give credence to paying any attention to it at all.

You see, it's obvious that intelligence, for example, is a strength and a valuable human asset. This is undeniable. Therefore, when considering someone's social merit, whether he or she is intelligent plays a role, but it isn't something that is given much attention past an acknowledgement of that intelligence, unless it is relevant to what he or she is doing. Otherwise, it isn't a very big deal, and it bears no real overall significance.

This is because intelligence is a real virtue, rather than a manufactured one, like skin-tone. Therefore, unless it's relevant to whatever it benefits (such as school or getting a job), it actually produces envy. But, it doesn't produce distrust, or social outcry against intelligent or unintelligent individuals. This is because it's a real, static characteristic. The same can be said for height.

"Race" and sex, and even gender, on the other hand, is one of the primary means that one will judge another before he or she gets to know that person (the other three being attire, physical attraction, and their relationships with others), because those are actually social devices that people use in order to maintain a given social paradigm. In other words, our society decided that people should look like "this" and dress like "this" and associate with people like "this," and if they don't they are stigmatized. Without this cultural paradigm, these things are meaningless.

This is wherein the dissonance with "race" lies. The fact is that this society is unsure whether it wants to continue including "race" in its social paradigm, but can't pinpoint precisely where that aspect of the paradigm began, and why. This is probably to logically legitimatize discarding something that isn't fundamentally logical anymore.

On that note, the fact is that it was fundamentally logical to begin with, because it aligned with a society that kept slaves who were primarily African in origin.

Of course, this doesn't mean that all Black people have ancestry that were slaves at some point, neither does it mean that all Black people are African in (recent) origin.
AlbinoBunny
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7/28/2013 7:00:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/25/2013 6:05:11 PM, Jack212 wrote:
... is to stop talking about race. We don't talk about cat breeds, and race is no different. We need to stop blaming race for things.

If a black kid fails school and gets into drugs, it's because he's messed up. It's not because the system is racist.

If a guy kills a family of Asians, it's because he's a psycho. It's not because he's racist.

If some redneck yells the N-word at a black family, it's because he's an a$$hole. It's not because he's racist.

If a boss hires a white guy over a black guy, it's because he liked the white guy more. It's not because he's racist.

If some cops beat up a Mexican dude, it's because they're abusive and unfit to be cops. It's not because they're racist.

Put the blame where it belongs. Race/racism isn't to blame, people are. Blaming the group puts them on the defensive and takes the spotlight off the individual, whom the group would otherwise condemn.

How can you sound so intelligent one minute, and not the next.
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Jack212
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7/29/2013 4:44:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/29/2013 1:33:14 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Oh comeon, everyone knows the final solution to racism is eugenics.

100% pure mix.

Hitler took eugenics too far and ruined it for everybody.
ClassicRobert
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7/29/2013 8:40:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/29/2013 4:44:22 AM, Jack212 wrote:
At 7/29/2013 1:33:14 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Oh comeon, everyone knows the final solution to racism is eugenics.

100% pure mix.

Hitler took eugenics too far and ruined it for everybody.

Hitler fallacy
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ClassicRobert
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7/29/2013 8:42:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Not talking about it isn't solving the problem, just like forbidding hate speech does not remove the hate. Not talking about race would only be a surface solution. It wouldn't actually fix anything.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

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ConservativeAmerican
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7/29/2013 12:06:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yes, because this is working in Europe great, where racism is on the rise because they get the illusion that they are some great, enlightened society just because they aren't committing genocide or apartheid against racial, ideological, or gender based minorities. Racism will always exist in Europe because Europe would rather draw comparisons to other nations to keep the fire off of them. This is what you want in America?
Jack212
Posts: 572
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7/29/2013 6:17:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/29/2013 8:40:34 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 7/29/2013 4:44:22 AM, Jack212 wrote:
At 7/29/2013 1:33:14 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Oh comeon, everyone knows the final solution to racism is eugenics.

100% pure mix.

Hitler took eugenics too far and ruined it for everybody.

Hitler fallacy

Dark humor, actually. Not to be confused with black jokes.