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Tipping

ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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8/8/2013 10:52:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I tend not to tip and people always think I'm some kind of cheap bastard. But I just don't believe in it. If the service was good enough that I actually notice and say "wow that was good service" I tip but not unless that. This scene pretty much sums it up perfectly really.
Jack212
Posts: 572
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8/9/2013 12:04:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Tipping should only ever be at the customer's discretion. A "mandatory gratuity" is an oxymoron.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/9/2013 12:13:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Tipping is for suckers.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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8/9/2013 12:25:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Jesus, another tipping thread. People who don't tip have never been servers.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
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8/9/2013 12:30:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/9/2013 12:25:47 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Jesus, another tipping thread. People who don't tip have never been servers.

Yeah, we seem to have had a lot of these threads...

I've never been a server and I tip. Sometimes I probably tip too much. It's the cultural norm in the US and is built into the business. Servers in Wisconsin for example get paid around $3.00 an hour with the assumption they will make enough from tips.

I suppose I could understand an argument against tipping in Washington though, as servers make a normal wage, with a standard minimum wage. But even then I think tipping in service industry is the right thing to do.
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ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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8/9/2013 12:47:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/9/2013 12:19:05 AM, YYW wrote:
I almost always tip 20% in the United States.

20%?!?!

So on top of sales tax and food costs you throw in 20% of tip? Jeez man.
Jack212
Posts: 572
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8/9/2013 4:21:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/9/2013 12:25:47 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Jesus, another tipping thread. People who don't tip have never been servers.

Example to the contrary here. I've served people. I got tipped once, it was really embarrassing. Even worse was the fact that my manager took it off me, because company policy didn't allow tips. I would have made an issue of it, except that they'd written it into our contract because other employees had complained and gotten the union involved.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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8/9/2013 5:05:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/9/2013 12:47:47 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 8/9/2013 12:19:05 AM, YYW wrote:
I almost always tip 20% in the United States.

20%?!?!

So on top of sales tax and food costs you throw in 20% of tip? Jeez man.

Chances are, if people didn't tip, the cost of the menu would just go up about 20% anyway, especially if it is a tip credit state.
At least, by not tipping, you can discourage bad servers to get a new job, but if you never tip, it discourages all.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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8/9/2013 5:06:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/9/2013 12:30:36 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 8/9/2013 12:25:47 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Jesus, another tipping thread. People who don't tip have never been servers.

Yeah, we seem to have had a lot of these threads...

I've never been a server and I tip. Sometimes I probably tip too much. It's the cultural norm in the US and is built into the business. Servers in Wisconsin for example get paid around $3.00 an hour with the assumption they will make enough from tips.

You do realize that that is a tip credit, and if the server makes less than minimum wage, the company makes up the difference, right? So, it is a "normal" wage regardless.

I suppose I could understand an argument against tipping in Washington though, as servers make a normal wage, with a standard minimum wage. But even then I think tipping in service industry is the right thing to do.
My work here is, finally, done.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/9/2013 5:41:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/9/2013 5:06:41 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 8/9/2013 12:30:36 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 8/9/2013 12:25:47 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Jesus, another tipping thread. People who don't tip have never been servers.

Yeah, we seem to have had a lot of these threads...

I've never been a server and I tip. Sometimes I probably tip too much. It's the cultural norm in the US and is built into the business. Servers in Wisconsin for example get paid around $3.00 an hour with the assumption they will make enough from tips.

You do realize that that is a tip credit, and if the server makes less than minimum wage, the company makes up the difference, right? So, it is a "normal" wage regardless.

Why should that be anybody's problem? From a self-interest POV tipping is irrational. If you don't tip now, you spend less money (what happens to the waiters is irrelevant). There are more than enough other empathetic puss!es who will tip and make up your lack of tipping, if you are concerned about the waiters.

I suppose I could understand an argument against tipping in Washington though, as servers make a normal wage, with a standard minimum wage. But even then I think tipping in service industry is the right thing to do.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/9/2013 5:45:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Where I live, the minimum wage for waiters who occasionally serve liquor (those that don't have normal minimum wage) is 65 cents below normal minimum wage. Over a year, that difference is 1.3k- hardly anything.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Andromeda_Z
Posts: 4,151
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8/9/2013 9:57:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I tip. Always. Well, okay, maybe not for the most horrible, rude server ever, but in normal situations, yeah. The price on the menu pays for your food, not the service. I'm not making any comment on whether that's right or wrong, but that's how it is and you're not making any huge statement by being a jerk. If you think your server earned more than the tiny amount paid to servers in your state because they did their job well, leave a tip! Servers don't make sh!t in NY, so I set the bar pretty low for who gets a good tip, but I guess I could understand not tipping or tipping less if you were somewhere where servers actually made money.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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8/9/2013 10:28:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/9/2013 5:05:42 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 8/9/2013 12:47:47 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 8/9/2013 12:19:05 AM, YYW wrote:
I almost always tip 20% in the United States.

20%?!?!

So on top of sales tax and food costs you throw in 20% of tip? Jeez man.

Chances are, if people didn't tip, the cost of the menu would just go up about 20% anyway, especially if it is a tip credit state.
At least, by not tipping, you can discourage bad servers to get a new job, but if you never tip, it discourages all.

Well right now the price hasn't gone up so... I'm still saving a buck.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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8/9/2013 11:19:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
CP, this thread is obviously in response to QueenVictoria's thread, an attempt at creating a mega-thread that's within the limits of your happy place. Grow up, dude!!
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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8/9/2013 11:21:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I offer to buy the bartender in my local a pint every now and again. He never takes it, though.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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8/10/2013 11:33:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think a general policy of no tipping is not entirely unjustified. However, if you are a frequent customer to the same place, I would suggest tipping at least a little. It is well-known that waiters remember stiffers and the next time you dine there, they will spit in your food. In this case, the tip you give ensures spit-less food. So, it is highly recommended that you tip especially if you plan to go back to that place in the near future.

I always tip 15%. I pull out my iphone and calculate the exact amount needed down to the last cent.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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8/11/2013 12:16:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/9/2013 12:25:47 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Jesus, another tipping thread. People who don't tip have never been servers.

^^^

Here is an idea. Don't fvck over the people who handle your food.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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8/11/2013 10:51:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
If you don't tip, then don't go out to eat. The USA has a tipping system. You may not like the system, but that is the way it is. If you use restaurants you should tip. Or, just use fast food services that don't require tips. If you just don't tip and you know tipping is expected, you are cheap.
CarefulNow
Posts: 780
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8/11/2013 12:03:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 10:51:55 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
If you don't tip, then don't go out to eat. The USA has a tipping system. You may not like the system, but that is the way it is. If you use restaurants you should tip. Or, just use fast food services that don't require tips. If you just don't tip and you know tipping is expected, you are cheap.

Or you just don't want to subsidize other cheap people dining. Tipping is expected, but so are both dining and a certain percentage of non-tippers; if the non-tippers switched to fast food or started tipping, that would be unexpected and therefore, according to your own principle, must be opposed.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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8/11/2013 12:19:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 12:03:03 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 8/11/2013 10:51:55 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
If you don't tip, then don't go out to eat. The USA has a tipping system. You may not like the system, but that is the way it is. If you use restaurants you should tip. Or, just use fast food services that don't require tips. If you just don't tip and you know tipping is expected, you are cheap.

Or you just don't want to subsidize other cheap people dining. Tipping is expected, but so are both dining and a certain percentage of non-tippers; if the non-tippers switched to fast food or started tipping, that would be unexpected and therefore, according to your own principle, must be opposed.

If non-tippers stopped not-tipping, they would screw over less workers. Non-tippers ought to stop mooching and freeloading off of others.

IDK what your argument is or what you are talking about with the expected thing. I also think it is expected for people not to go on murder rampages. Yet, it is. expected for there to be a certain amount of murder rampages every year. It would be unexpected if all murdering pychos stopped murdering. It is still wrong to murder people. IDK what you mean.
CarefulNow
Posts: 780
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8/11/2013 3:01:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 12:19:41 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
If non-tippers stopped not-tipping, they would screw over less workers. Non-tippers ought to stop mooching and freeloading off of others.

My point is that it takes two to mooch; the tippers are every bit as critical. The workers are irrelevant; their low time-wages are because of tipping and would increase if tipping ceased.

IDK what your argument is or what you are talking about with the expected thing. I also think it is expected for people not to go on murder rampages. Yet, it is. expected for there to be a certain amount of murder rampages every year. It would be unexpected if all murdering pychos stopped murdering. It is still wrong to murder people. IDK what you mean.

I mean that, before, when you said people should tip because they're expected to, that was a bad argument. Expectation is also a bad argument for murdering, as you say, or even not murdering. A good argument for the latter is that murder kills people, which not tipping doesn't.

I probably should have just told you the primary purpose of tipping, which is price discrimination. Discrimination has a bad connotation, but I don't intend it; price discrimination is efficient when its own costs are less than the deadweight loss of trade with those who would pay a price above cost but not as high as the non-discriminatory price.

Whether that's true in the case of tipping is irrelevant. The point is that one of the costs of price discrimination is in this case the guilt and shame you're trying to increase at this time. By suffering such guilt and shame, and the possible contamination of his food, the customer proves how important paying a lower price is to him, same as a grocery shopper proves as much by taking the time to clip coupons. The restaurant gains nothing if such customers feel they have to tip; as you say, they would simply switch to fast food, which would hurt the waiters if it had any effect on them at all.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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8/11/2013 4:33:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago

My point is that it takes two to mooch; the tippers are every bit as critical. The workers are irrelevant; their low time-wages are because of tipping and would increase if tipping ceased.

I understand if you would rather live in a system without tipping like Europe. I would agree. I also, would rather live in a no tipping system. But the USA has a tipping system. So, if you use USA restaurants you are a cheap mooching douche if you do not tip.

Wages would also increase, and the tipping system would be removed if no one frequented places requiring a tip. Funny, how you choose to show your dissatisfaction with tipping in a way that hurts others and benefits you, eh?


A good argument for the latter is that murder kills people, which not tipping doesn't.

Not tipping removes money from workers, so it hurts workers.

I probably should have just told you the primary purpose of tipping, which is price discrimination. Discrimination has a bad connotation, but I don't intend it; price discrimination is efficient when its own costs are less than the deadweight loss of trade with those who would pay a price above cost but not as high as the non-discriminatory price.

Whether that's true in the case of tipping is irrelevant. The point is that one of the costs of price discrimination is in this case the guilt and shame you're trying to increase at this time. By suffering such guilt and shame, and the possible contamination of his food, the customer proves how important paying a lower price is to him, same as a grocery shopper proves as much by taking the time to clip coupons. The restaurant gains nothing if such customers feel they have to tip; as you say, they would simply switch to fast food, which would hurt the waiters if it had any effect on them at all.

I understand you may not like the tipping system or if the you don't think it makes sense. I also do not want a tipping system. But, if you choose not to tip as a protest, you are a cheap bastard. You are abusing the system and taking advantage of the generosity of others.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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8/11/2013 4:34:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 3:07:05 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
A Tea Party Conservative is a penny pinching douche? You don't say?

I often think the reason conservatives think poor people abuse benefits and are freeloading, is because they themselves look for every angle to take advantage of people and would abuse the system if poor.
Drayson
Posts: 288
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8/11/2013 4:46:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
We don't tip in New Zealand, but restaurant dining, when taking exchange rates into account, is a lot more expensive - more than it is in America, even with tip included - and servers here get paid at least minimum wage, which is more than twice what they're paid in the US.

So, you can either tip your servers, or nobody does and you all end up paying more to dine out.
"I'm not saying I don't trust you...and I'm not saying I do. But I don't"

-Topper Harley
CarefulNow
Posts: 780
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8/12/2013 1:52:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 4:33:01 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
I understand if you would rather live in a system without tipping like Europe. I would agree. I also, would rather live in a no tipping system. But the USA has a tipping system. So, if you use USA restaurants you are a cheap mooching douche if you do not tip.

It's neither so black-and-white nor so constant. Simply put, a worker gets wages (w) equal to the value of his labor (v) minus tips (t). For some, t=0 and thus w=v. For waiters, v is currently about $8/h, t $6/h and consequently w=v-t=$2/h, though t used to be quite lower and consequently w (inflation-adjusted) quite higher. t is of course determined by nothing other than individual patrons. It's not that by not tipping you end the "tipping system" (t>0, w<v), it's that you reduce it and thereby increase what might as well be called the "wage system" (w).

Wages would also increase, and the tipping system would be removed if no one frequented places requiring a tip. Funny, how you choose to show your dissatisfaction with tipping in a way that hurts others and benefits you, eh?

Please don't get personal. I don't normally eat at restaurants, and when I do I tip quite generously. I simply have no illusions that I'm helping the workers in this. It's just that not tipping is embarrassing and I can afford to spare myself that embarrassment. Price discrimination, as I say. It's true that if I completely avoided restaurants the average tip would decrease and thus time-wages would rise; however, if I simply stopped tipping, the average tip would decrease still more and thus the time-wage would rise still higher.

I understand you may not like the tipping system or if the you don't think it makes sense. I also do not want a tipping system. But, if you choose not to tip as a protest, you are a cheap bastard. You are abusing the system and taking advantage of the generosity of others.

Are coupon-users doing the same? Aren't they taking advantage of the generosity of those who pay full price? Of course, the latter don't pretend they're helping the workers, but that's to their credit. Pretense is not a thing to be rewarded. When pretense or its reward are expected, one ought to be unexpected. It's got nothing to do with protest.
twocupcakes
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8/12/2013 6:18:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago

It's neither so black-and-white nor so constant. Simply put, a worker gets wages (w) equal to the value of his labor (v) minus tips (t). For some, t=0 and thus w=v. For waiters, v is currently about $8/h, t $6/h and consequently w=v-t=$2/h, though t used to be quite lower and consequently w (inflation-adjusted) quite higher. t is of course determined by nothing other than individual patrons. It's not that by not tipping you end the "tipping system" (t>0, w<v), it's that you reduce it and thereby increase what might as well be called the "wage system" (w).

Waiters only get paid wages at a maximum of minimum wage. Waiters require more than minimum wage to live on, and the value of the waiters job is more than minimum wage. Further, you can only increase the wage system up to minimum wage. If so one tips a good waiter, he will get minimum wage.


Please don't get personal. I don't normally eat at restaurants, and when I do I tip quite generously. I simply have no illusions that I'm helping the workers in this. It's just that not tipping is embarrassing and I can afford to spare myself that embarrassment. Price discrimination, as I say. It's true that if I completely avoided restaurants the average tip would decrease and thus time-wages would rise; however, if I simply stopped tipping, the average tip would decrease still more and thus the time-wage would rise still higher.

It is good you tip then. That is more than can be said, than many posters on this thread. I agree with you that people should tip, and I agree that it I would rather have a non-tipping system.

The idea that you somehow help my not tipping is laughable.


Are coupon-users doing the same? Aren't they taking advantage of the generosity of those who pay full price? Of course, the latter don't pretend they're helping the workers, but that's to their credit. Pretense is not a thing to be rewarded. When pretense or its reward are expected, one ought to be unexpected. It's got nothing to do with protest.

Coupon using is irrelevant to this discussion. IDK why you brought it up. ????