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The Innovation of Loneliness

R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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8/10/2013 8:25:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
http://www.wimp.com...
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
ObiWan
Posts: 732
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8/11/2013 12:02:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
We're definitely 'sacrificing conversation for mere connection'
I'm finding it harder and hard rot have meaningful conversations with people (maybe I need new friends)

I guess the internet giveth and the internet taketh away.
These are not the droids you're looking for.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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8/11/2013 9:57:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 12:02:10 AM, ObiWan wrote:
We're definitely 'sacrificing conversation for mere connection'
I'm finding it harder and harder to have meaningful conversations with people (maybe I need new friends) [editted for spelling]

I guess the internet giveth and the internet taketh away.

... and DDO is where some of us end up who attempt to put meaning back in the dialogue. A lot of us get pissed when we find trolling here, because this is supposed to be our quality-time on the internet.

I'm a little older than the norm here, at 32 years old. I wasn't brought up with social-networking, and I remember pre-internet life well. I hate the modern lifestyle, where everyone walks around with their noses in a cell-phone. Nothing lowers my opinion of somebody more than those who can't put their phones away in public. We are becoming increasingly segregated, as our social lives are removed from RL and stored in cyberspace. When I was younger, my friends would gather in groups at certain households and public places to mingle. You didn't call ahead or text, you just showed up when you weren't busy. Now it's a mortal sin to come over somebody's house without making an appointment first. Even when people do mingle, as soon as somebody isn't talking, they take out their phone to make it look like they are occupied. Take note of how many people you see on devices next time you are in restaurants, bars, etc. - places where real social interaction ought to be the standard.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
ObiWan
Posts: 732
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8/11/2013 7:14:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 9:57:50 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 8/11/2013 12:02:10 AM, ObiWan wrote:
We're definitely 'sacrificing conversation for mere connection'
I'm finding it harder and harder to have meaningful conversations with people (maybe I need new friends) [edited [edited for spelling] for spelling]

I guess the internet giveth and the internet taketh away.

... and DDO is where some of us end up who attempt to put meaning back in the dialogue. A lot of us get pissed when we find trolling here, because this is supposed to be our quality-time on the internet.

Even when people do mingle, as soon as somebody isn't talking, they take out their phone to make it look like they are occupied. Take note of how many people you see on devices next time you are in restaurants, bars, etc. - places where real social interaction ought to be the standard.

This irritates me so much. Nobody wants to be lonely, or worse, seem like they are not connected, so they always have to appear that the are doing something meaningful every single waking hour. And I'll admit, at times I've done it myself.

I'm 17, and for my generation, internet communication has become part of real life communication. We come in to school on a monday morning and people talk about what was posted on Facebook last night, or show each other pictures on Reddit.

And social interaction is only going to keep getting less and less personal and more and more digital.
These are not the droids you're looking for.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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8/12/2013 8:12:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 7:14:56 PM, ObiWan wrote:

This irritates me so much. Nobody wants to be lonely, or worse, seem like they are not connected, so they always have to appear that the are doing something meaningful every single waking hour. And I'll admit, at times I've done it myself.

I had done it when I had a cell-phone, but ditching it fixed that problem for me. Now when I'm at the bar and I am not talking to somebody, I actually have to spend the effort to get into another conversation instead of bringing out my phone to "save" me. If I'm in line at the store or something of that nature I don't have the phone to instinctively jump to. I feel more awake, aware, and alive.

I'm 17, and for my generation, internet communication has become part of real life communication. We come in to school on a monday morning and people talk about what was posted on Facebook last night, or show each other pictures on Reddit.

I'm depressed because my daughter is almost three and I'm not sure if I'll be able to save her from the digital age. She'll be on FB, no doubt, and her mother will probably get her a cell-phone for "safety" at some point (apparently there was no such thing as a safe child until the cell-phone became prevalent). I don't want her to be another one of these drones who are addicted to and dependent on technology. I'm going to have to do my best to get her into some activities like music, sports, and reading physical books to keep her focused. How many arguments will I have with her over the years to do something constructive instead of taking the easy way out and jumping on a web page? To make matters worse, I only have her half-time and her mother is not as open-minded as I am...

And social interaction is only going to keep getting less and less personal and more and more digital.

Well I would hope that, at some point, there is a movement started that recognizes the degradation of our social structures and provides some motivation for people to break free. But that may not ever come, and in the meantime yes, it will only get worse. Digital communication is luxury, which people are largely unable to resist in any capacity. Luxury (greed) is the cause of just about every problem we have as a society, from obesity to war.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
ObiWan
Posts: 732
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8/12/2013 10:55:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/12/2013 8:12:56 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 8/11/2013 7:14:56 PM, ObiWan wrote:

I had done it when I had a cell-phone, but ditching it fixed that problem for me. Now when I'm at the bar and I am not talking to somebody, I actually have to spend the effort to get into another conversation instead of bringing out my phone to "save" me. If I'm in line at the store or something of that nature I don't have the phone to instinctively jump to. I feel more awake, aware, and alive.

The enjoy periods of time I spend without my phone constantly near me, which is probably more common than the average teen as I seem to have an innate ability to break them.

I'm depressed because my daughter is almost three and I'm not sure if I'll be able to save her from the digital age. She'll be on FB, no doubt, and her mother will probably get her a cell-phone for "safety" at some point (apparently there was no such thing as a safe child until the cell-phone became prevalent). I don't want her to be another one of these drones who are addicted to and dependent on technology. I'm going to have to do my best to get her into some activities like music, sports, and reading physical books to keep her focused. How many arguments will I have with her over the years to do something constructive instead of taking the easy way out and jumping on a web page? To make matters worse, I only have her half-time and her mother is not as open-minded as I am...

While this may be scary, I don't think it should be something to feel depressed about. The mobile phone is a fantastic invention, even just for ease of communication if not safety. However if you feel strongly about it I would definitely encourage your daughter to read, especially at a young age. I have a 6 year old brother, and he actually has to have an iPad for school, which he has of course put games on. Personally I find the easiest way to distract him from it (or the TV) is to go outside. Young children seem to have this amazing fascination with nature that is definitely something you can 'exploit'.

Well I would hope that, at some point, there is a movement started that recognizes the degradation of our social structures and provides some motivation for people to break free. But that may not ever come, and in the meantime yes, it will only get worse. Digital communication is luxury, which people are largely unable to resist in any capacity. Luxury (greed) is the cause of just about every problem we have as a society, from obesity to war.

While this movement might be a good thing for our society as a whole (have you seen the movie Wall-e?) I don't think it will ever come. The digital age has made things so much easier for us, and people tend to not put in the extra effort unless there is an obvious reason, and the need to preserve social interaction is not so blatantly obvious as we might hope.
These are not the droids you're looking for.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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8/13/2013 8:56:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/12/2013 10:55:37 PM, ObiWan wrote:
At 8/12/2013 8:12:56 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 8/11/2013 7:14:56 PM, ObiWan wrote:

I had done it when I had a cell-phone, but ditching it fixed that problem for me. Now when I'm at the bar and I am not talking to somebody, I actually have to spend the effort to get into another conversation instead of bringing out my phone to "save" me. If I'm in line at the store or something of that nature I don't have the phone to instinctively jump to. I feel more awake, aware, and alive.

The enjoy periods of time I spend without my phone constantly near me, which is probably more common than the average teen as I seem to have an innate ability to break them.

My ex smashed my smartphone against the wall a couple years back... I think it was because I was watching porn on it LOL. Anyway, it was a great favor and I never went back.

I'm depressed because my daughter is almost three and I'm not sure if I'll be able to save her from the digital age. She'll be on FB, no doubt, and her mother will probably get her a cell-phone for "safety" at some point (apparently there was no such thing as a safe child until the cell-phone became prevalent). I don't want her to be another one of these drones who are addicted to and dependent on technology. I'm going to have to do my best to get her into some activities like music, sports, and reading physical books to keep her focused. How many arguments will I have with her over the years to do something constructive instead of taking the easy way out and jumping on a web page? To make matters worse, I only have her half-time and her mother is not as open-minded as I am...

While this may be scary, I don't think it should be something to feel depressed about. The mobile phone is a fantastic invention, even just for ease of communication if not safety.

The invention itself is not evil, it is our application of that technology which is. You say it improved our safety - does that mean we are now safer in 2013 than we were in 1993? I argue that we are only safer in the sense that we have become lax and put ourselves in more dangerous situations in which to now depend on this technology to replace common sense. For instance, Gramma now doesn't need as much of our help. We can leave her in a home somewhere and go about our busy lives and forget about her, if she has a heart attack she can use her cell-phone and call someone who gives a isht. That actually started in the 80s with the classic "I'm falling, and I can't get up!" commercial. Old people need more than emergency assistance to survive, they need our love and support. Not short message service and phone calls, real F2F interaction. You say it improves our communication, but I say it is the opposite. In theory, it improves our ability to communicate, but in practice, we use it so much to replace real communication - that is, the 90% of communication that is contained within our body-language and tone of voice - that we end up depending almost completely on the last 10% and we've taken the life out of our interactions. You and I have exchanged some great ideas so far, but it's taken lots of time and effort for us to do so. We could have had this conversation in several minutes F2F. And furthermore, I know nothing about you right now. You'll fade back into cyberspace shortly and I may never speak to you again, or at best I'll respond to some random comment later on that still shows me nothing of who you really are. I've been on DDO for over 5 years, I'm used to it... the counter-argument is that I wouldn't have ever met you if not for DDO, but there's something to be said for the efforts society used to go online instead of fostering practically-meaningless online relationships. 20 years ago, what would our time have gone towards instead of this dialogue? Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed talking to you, but after five years of being here and having almost nothing to show for it, I can't help but bring that up in the conversation!

However if you feel strongly about it I would definitely encourage your daughter to read, especially at a young age. I have a 6 year old brother, and he actually has to have an iPad for school, which he has of course put games on. Personally I find the easiest way to distract him from it (or the TV) is to go outside. Young children seem to have this amazing fascination with nature that is definitely something you can 'exploit'.

That is another thing I'm worried about, and I'm hoping I can find a school that isn't super high-tech. I can't stand that about schools these days, as if you need to put tech in front of kids to teach them it - they do just fine finding that crap out at home anyway! School should be about books and the DISCIPLINE it takes to read them as opposed to operating plastic digital machines. Schools aren't about self-development and enlightenment anymore, they are about job-training... at least they are at the secondary level, and I'm sure it's spreading downwards into our children's school-lives. Economics is seen as justification for just about anything and it really sickens me... as a whole, economics is so flawed it is unbelievable. There are so many externalities to just about any economic theory, mixed with self-centered and short-sighted ideals, that you can't trust anything that economists say. And they control just about everything, because we portray them as purveyors of ultimate freedom, giving us foresight into the free market and leading us away from statism and socialism. All the while the environment crumbles around us, our society is becoming sterile, and more and more of us wish the end would just come already and put us out of our misery. I would take apocalypse over Wall-E...

Well I would hope that, at some point, there is a movement started that recognizes the degradation of our social structures and provides some motivation for people to break free. But that may not ever come, and in the meantime yes, it will only get worse. Digital communication is luxury, which people are largely unable to resist in any capacity. Luxury (greed) is the cause of just about every problem we have as a society, from obesity to war.

While this movement might be a good thing for our society as a whole (have you seen the movie Wall-e?) I don't think it will ever come. The digital age has made things so much easier for us, and people tend to not put in the extra effort unless there is an obvious reason, and the need to preserve social interaction is not so blatantly obvious as we might hope.

That's exactly right - we don't put in the extra effort unless we absolutely have to. It's the source of this whole situation, really... creature comfort. We want just a little more, and aren't happy once we get it for very long. Take a look at this video... it's a prediction from the 50s at how life will develop in the near future (probably aimed at before the turn of the millenium). Take note at how they predict we will have "more time for liesure" because of technology. In reality, we have LESS time because we're all working way more to support all this crap! Machines don't build and maintain themselves! When this video was made, it was common for only the man of the house to work while the wife didn't... now we're all working overtime!
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.