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Crying babies/toddlers in Restaurants

YYW
Posts: 36,345
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8/18/2013 3:15:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
One of the things I miss most about Switzerland is the fact that you almost never saw unruly children in restaurants, though largely because parents left their tiny tots at home either because the restaurant forbade children from being served or because it is a cultural faux pas to even bring them out.

But today, I had lunch in a "typical American eatery." By "typical American" I mean there were families, kids and adults alike, and everyone seemed to be having a pretty chaotic time. Parents didn't care about the fact that their children's actions were disturbing other patrons (like me), and the kids just carried on.

If, when I was that age, I acted out, I would be taken home immediately and I wouldn't have been taken back out for at least a month. That happened one time, when I was about five or so. The same with my brother and sister. What is strange to me is that all parents don't either leave their kids at home, or bring them out only if they can behave.
Tsar of DDO
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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8/18/2013 4:47:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is one of the things I hate most about life, and it doesn't help that I work at McDonald's.

My biggest issue isn't with restaurants, though. It's with movie theaters.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
YYW
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8/18/2013 5:01:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/18/2013 4:47:44 PM, Korashk wrote:
This is one of the things I hate most about life, and it doesn't help that I work at McDonald's.

My biggest issue isn't with restaurants, though. It's with movie theaters.

I've never had that experience in a movie theater, but I can't imagine I'd be pleased if I did.
Tsar of DDO
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
USNavySquid
Posts: 24
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8/19/2013 5:08:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).

That sounds vindictive. I don't think parents (me) should have to pay extra to take our kids to see their grandparents, or for any other reason. I suggest using ear plugs or a music headset. You might suggest that the grandparents can just skype with the grandkids. I think any grandparent would tell you that skyping falls far short of holding a grandbaby.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/19/2013 5:09:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:08:26 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).

That sounds vindictive. I don't think parents (me) should have to pay extra to take our kids to see their grandparents, or for any other reason. I suggest using ear plugs or a music headset. You might suggest that the grandparents can just skype with the grandkids. I think any grandparent would tell you that skyping falls far short of holding a grandbaby.

I couldn't care less about your petty emotional attachments. An effective compromise would be drugging the child to make sure that they are asleep during the flight.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
USNavySquid
Posts: 24
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8/19/2013 5:12:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:09:51 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:08:26 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).

That sounds vindictive. I don't think parents (me) should have to pay extra to take our kids to see their grandparents, or for any other reason. I suggest using ear plugs or a music headset. You might suggest that the grandparents can just skype with the grandkids. I think any grandparent would tell you that skyping falls far short of holding a grandbaby.

I couldn't care less about your petty emotional attachments. An effective compromise would be drugging the child to make sure that they are asleep during the flight.

Well, the fact that you don't care makes you sound selfish, unwilling to see the other person's point of view and unwilling to compromise. All of which makes your view easy to dismiss. I agree that putting kids to sleep is an attractive idea. The risk for miscalculating the dosage is too high, however.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/19/2013 5:14:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:12:32 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:09:51 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:08:26 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).

That sounds vindictive. I don't think parents (me) should have to pay extra to take our kids to see their grandparents, or for any other reason. I suggest using ear plugs or a music headset. You might suggest that the grandparents can just skype with the grandkids. I think any grandparent would tell you that skyping falls far short of holding a grandbaby.

I couldn't care less about your petty emotional attachments. An effective compromise would be drugging the child to make sure that they are asleep during the flight.

Well, the fact that you don't care makes you sound selfish, unwilling to see the other person's point of view and unwilling to compromise.

Very well aware.

All of which makes your view easy to dismiss.

Totally non sequitur.

I agree that putting kids to sleep is an attractive idea. The risk for miscalculating the dosage is too high, however.

It would take a real idiot to accidentally overdose on sleeping pills. Those people might as well die already.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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8/19/2013 5:15:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:12:32 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:09:51 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:08:26 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).

That sounds vindictive. I don't think parents (me) should have to pay extra to take our kids to see their grandparents, or for any other reason. I suggest using ear plugs or a music headset. You might suggest that the grandparents can just skype with the grandkids. I think any grandparent would tell you that skyping falls far short of holding a grandbaby.

I couldn't care less about your petty emotional attachments. An effective compromise would be drugging the child to make sure that they are asleep during the flight.

Well, the fact that you don't care makes you sound selfish, unwilling to see the other person's point of view and unwilling to compromise. All of which makes your view easy to dismiss. I agree that putting kids to sleep is an attractive idea. The risk for miscalculating the dosage is too high, however.

Wait, how exactly was saying "Just put in earplugs" a compromise?

That sounds more like a selfish "I shouldn't have to deal with any consequences for having misbehaving kids or being a burden to those around me".
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
USNavySquid
Posts: 24
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8/19/2013 5:17:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:14:59 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:12:32 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:09:51 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:08:26 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).

That sounds vindictive. I don't think parents (me) should have to pay extra to take our kids to see their grandparents, or for any other reason. I suggest using ear plugs or a music headset. You might suggest that the grandparents can just skype with the grandkids. I think any grandparent would tell you that skyping falls far short of holding a grandbaby.

I couldn't care less about your petty emotional attachments. An effective compromise would be drugging the child to make sure that they are asleep during the flight.

Well, the fact that you don't care makes you sound selfish, unwilling to see the other person's point of view and unwilling to compromise.

Very well aware.

All of which makes your view easy to dismiss.

Totally non sequitur.

I agree that putting kids to sleep is an attractive idea. The risk for miscalculating the dosage is too high, however.

It would take a real idiot to accidentally overdose on sleeping pills. Those people might as well die already.

I've never heard of administering sleeping pills to children. I would think it would be more tricky/dangerous than administering to adults. Especially infants and toddlers.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/19/2013 5:18:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
A Lecter-esque mask should also work wonders.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/19/2013 5:18:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:17:36 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:14:59 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:12:32 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:09:51 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:08:26 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).

That sounds vindictive. I don't think parents (me) should have to pay extra to take our kids to see their grandparents, or for any other reason. I suggest using ear plugs or a music headset. You might suggest that the grandparents can just skype with the grandkids. I think any grandparent would tell you that skyping falls far short of holding a grandbaby.

I couldn't care less about your petty emotional attachments. An effective compromise would be drugging the child to make sure that they are asleep during the flight.

Well, the fact that you don't care makes you sound selfish, unwilling to see the other person's point of view and unwilling to compromise.

Very well aware.

All of which makes your view easy to dismiss.

Totally non sequitur.

I agree that putting kids to sleep is an attractive idea. The risk for miscalculating the dosage is too high, however.

It would take a real idiot to accidentally overdose on sleeping pills. Those people might as well die already.

I've never heard of administering sleeping pills to children.

Then you're an idiot.

I would think it would be more tricky/dangerous than administering to adults. Especially infants and toddlers.

Not really. Just lower the dosage and adjust for body weight. It's not rocket science.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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8/19/2013 5:21:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Try carrying candy around with you and bribing them to stop.

If that doesn't work, it's never too late to abort.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
USNavySquid
Posts: 24
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8/19/2013 5:22:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:15:41 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:12:32 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:09:51 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:08:26 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).

That sounds vindictive. I don't think parents (me) should have to pay extra to take our kids to see their grandparents, or for any other reason. I suggest using ear plugs or a music headset. You might suggest that the grandparents can just skype with the grandkids. I think any grandparent would tell you that skyping falls far short of holding a grandbaby.

I couldn't care less about your petty emotional attachments. An effective compromise would be drugging the child to make sure that they are asleep during the flight.

Well, the fact that you don't care makes you sound selfish, unwilling to see the other person's point of view and unwilling to compromise. All of which makes your view easy to dismiss. I agree that putting kids to sleep is an attractive idea. The risk for miscalculating the dosage is too high, however.

Wait, how exactly was saying "Just put in earplugs" a compromise?
You're right. But an adult has more power to choose his/her responses to a crying kid than a kid does to an unwanted airplane ride.
That sounds more like a selfish "I shouldn't have to deal with any consequences for having misbehaving kids or being a burden to those around me".

On the plane, after paying the obscenely overpriced ticket that LordKnuckles suggested, how do you expect the parent to deal with the consequences if the kid is still making a racket? What better outcome is there is the kid continues to scream? Put in the ear plugs and surrender. What more can be done by the annoyed passengers? What more can the parent do to lessen the burden?
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/19/2013 5:24:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:22:53 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:15:41 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:12:32 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:09:51 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:08:26 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).

That sounds vindictive. I don't think parents (me) should have to pay extra to take our kids to see their grandparents, or for any other reason. I suggest using ear plugs or a music headset. You might suggest that the grandparents can just skype with the grandkids. I think any grandparent would tell you that skyping falls far short of holding a grandbaby.

I couldn't care less about your petty emotional attachments. An effective compromise would be drugging the child to make sure that they are asleep during the flight.

Well, the fact that you don't care makes you sound selfish, unwilling to see the other person's point of view and unwilling to compromise. All of which makes your view easy to dismiss. I agree that putting kids to sleep is an attractive idea. The risk for miscalculating the dosage is too high, however.

Wait, how exactly was saying "Just put in earplugs" a compromise?
You're right. But an adult has more power to choose his/her responses to a crying kid than a kid does to an unwanted airplane ride.
That sounds more like a selfish "I shouldn't have to deal with any consequences for having misbehaving kids or being a burden to those around me".

On the plane, after paying the obscenely overpriced ticket that LordKnuckles suggested, how do you expect the parent to deal with the consequences if the kid is still making a racket? What better outcome is there is the kid continues to scream? Put in the ear plugs and surrender. What more can be done by the annoyed passengers? What more can the parent do to lessen the burden?

I'd be much more willing to accept the situation if the extra cost of the child's ticket was passed on as savings to those distracted by the brat.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
YYW
Posts: 36,345
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8/19/2013 5:24:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:08:26 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).

That sounds vindictive. I don't think parents (me) should have to pay extra to take our kids to see their grandparents, or for any other reason. I suggest using ear plugs or a music headset.

I just want to point out that the only reason why people suggest penalizing parents for bringing their kids with them in public is because parents fail to keep their kids under control. If your little angels were well behaved, this wouldn't be an issue (and if they are, then it's not a problem).
Tsar of DDO
USNavySquid
Posts: 24
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8/19/2013 5:24:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:18:49 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:17:36 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:14:59 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:12:32 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:09:51 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:08:26 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).

That sounds vindictive. I don't think parents (me) should have to pay extra to take our kids to see their grandparents, or for any other reason. I suggest using ear plugs or a music headset. You might suggest that the grandparents can just skype with the grandkids. I think any grandparent would tell you that skyping falls far short of holding a grandbaby.

I couldn't care less about your petty emotional attachments. An effective compromise would be drugging the child to make sure that they are asleep during the flight.

Well, the fact that you don't care makes you sound selfish, unwilling to see the other person's point of view and unwilling to compromise.

Very well aware.

All of which makes your view easy to dismiss.

Totally non sequitur.

I agree that putting kids to sleep is an attractive idea. The risk for miscalculating the dosage is too high, however.

It would take a real idiot to accidentally overdose on sleeping pills. Those people might as well die already.

I've never heard of administering sleeping pills to children.

Then you're an idiot.

I would think it would be more tricky/dangerous than administering to adults. Especially infants and toddlers.

Not really. Just lower the dosage and adjust for body weight. It's not rocket science.

I disagree. I think its risky. I would never do it.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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8/19/2013 5:24:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:22:53 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:15:41 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:12:32 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:09:51 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:08:26 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).

That sounds vindictive. I don't think parents (me) should have to pay extra to take our kids to see their grandparents, or for any other reason. I suggest using ear plugs or a music headset. You might suggest that the grandparents can just skype with the grandkids. I think any grandparent would tell you that skyping falls far short of holding a grandbaby.

I couldn't care less about your petty emotional attachments. An effective compromise would be drugging the child to make sure that they are asleep during the flight.

Well, the fact that you don't care makes you sound selfish, unwilling to see the other person's point of view and unwilling to compromise. All of which makes your view easy to dismiss. I agree that putting kids to sleep is an attractive idea. The risk for miscalculating the dosage is too high, however.

Wait, how exactly was saying "Just put in earplugs" a compromise?
You're right. But an adult has more power to choose his/her responses to a crying kid than a kid does to an unwanted airplane ride.
That sounds more like a selfish "I shouldn't have to deal with any consequences for having misbehaving kids or being a burden to those around me".

On the plane, after paying the obscenely overpriced ticket that LordKnuckles suggested, how do you expect the parent to deal with the consequences if the kid is still making a racket?

They already have, by paying the obscenely overpriced ticket.

You suggested the earplugs IN LIEU of the ticket, thus suggesting that everyone else should suffer for your convenience.

What better outcome is there is the kid continues to scream? Put in the ear plugs and surrender. What more can be done by the annoyed passengers? What more can the parent do to lessen the burden?

Well, by having paid more in ticket price, parents are dicincentivized to bring their kids. Hypothetically, the extra money from having those kids could go towards ways of ameliorating the harm your kids cause.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/19/2013 5:25:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:24:53 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:18:49 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:17:36 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:14:59 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:12:32 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:09:51 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:08:26 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).

That sounds vindictive. I don't think parents (me) should have to pay extra to take our kids to see their grandparents, or for any other reason. I suggest using ear plugs or a music headset. You might suggest that the grandparents can just skype with the grandkids. I think any grandparent would tell you that skyping falls far short of holding a grandbaby.

I couldn't care less about your petty emotional attachments. An effective compromise would be drugging the child to make sure that they are asleep during the flight.

Well, the fact that you don't care makes you sound selfish, unwilling to see the other person's point of view and unwilling to compromise.

Very well aware.

All of which makes your view easy to dismiss.

Totally non sequitur.

I agree that putting kids to sleep is an attractive idea. The risk for miscalculating the dosage is too high, however.

It would take a real idiot to accidentally overdose on sleeping pills. Those people might as well die already.

I've never heard of administering sleeping pills to children.

Then you're an idiot.

I would think it would be more tricky/dangerous than administering to adults. Especially infants and toddlers.

Not really. Just lower the dosage and adjust for body weight. It's not rocket science.

I disagree. I think its risky. I would never do it.

Great argument, bud. You wanna tell me how you "disagree" with gravity?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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8/19/2013 5:26:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:24:53 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:18:49 PM, Lordknukle wrote:

Not really. Just lower the dosage and adjust for body weight. It's not rocket science.

I disagree. I think its risky. I would never do it.

It's not risky. And it can be done with benadryl, for goodness' sake, we aren't talking hard narcotics here.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
YYW
Posts: 36,345
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8/19/2013 5:26:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:15:41 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:12:32 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:09:51 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:08:26 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).

That sounds vindictive. I don't think parents (me) should have to pay extra to take our kids to see their grandparents, or for any other reason. I suggest using ear plugs or a music headset. You might suggest that the grandparents can just skype with the grandkids. I think any grandparent would tell you that skyping falls far short of holding a grandbaby.

I couldn't care less about your petty emotional attachments. An effective compromise would be drugging the child to make sure that they are asleep during the flight.

Well, the fact that you don't care makes you sound selfish, unwilling to see the other person's point of view and unwilling to compromise. All of which makes your view easy to dismiss. I agree that putting kids to sleep is an attractive idea. The risk for miscalculating the dosage is too high, however.

Wait, how exactly was saying "Just put in earplugs" a compromise?

That sounds more like a selfish "I shouldn't have to deal with any consequences for having misbehaving kids or being a burden to those around me".

Spot on... and reading Squid's post, to that end, really bothered me. It's as if the public should just have to deal with the fact that some parents are incapable/refuse to control their kids.
Tsar of DDO
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/19/2013 5:27:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:26:07 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:24:53 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:18:49 PM, Lordknukle wrote:

Not really. Just lower the dosage and adjust for body weight. It's not rocket science.

I disagree. I think its risky. I would never do it.

It's not risky. And it can be done with benadryl, for goodness' sake, we aren't talking hard narcotics here.

Since most of my medical knowledge is derived from House, I'm inclined to believe that vicodin should also do the trick. :)
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
USNavySquid
Posts: 24
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8/19/2013 5:28:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:24:44 PM, YYW wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:08:26 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).

That sounds vindictive. I don't think parents (me) should have to pay extra to take our kids to see their grandparents, or for any other reason. I suggest using ear plugs or a music headset.

I just want to point out that the only reason why people suggest penalizing parents for bringing their kids with them in public is because parents fail to keep their kids under control. If your little angels were well behaved, this wouldn't be an issue (and if they are, then it's not a problem).

Even the kids of good parents can have outbursts. I can teach them to delay gratification (something even adults have trouble with), I can teach them to occupy themselves with books, toys etc. This teaching happens at home, in the store, in the car. The skill might transfer to the plane environment and it might not. Is it completely out of the question that the other passengers take a step or two to avoid being annoyed? Such as ear plugs?
YYW
Posts: 36,345
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8/19/2013 5:29:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Drugging kids, even with allergy medicines, shouldn't be necessary. I mean, I'm not opposed to it if they are REALLY unruly, but if parents had proper control of their kids, again, we wouldn't even be an issue. Bad parenting, really, is the root of this entire quandary.
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Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/19/2013 5:32:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:28:49 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:24:44 PM, YYW wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:08:26 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).

That sounds vindictive. I don't think parents (me) should have to pay extra to take our kids to see their grandparents, or for any other reason. I suggest using ear plugs or a music headset.

I just want to point out that the only reason why people suggest penalizing parents for bringing their kids with them in public is because parents fail to keep their kids under control. If your little angels were well behaved, this wouldn't be an issue (and if they are, then it's not a problem).

Even the kids of good parents can have outbursts. I can teach them to delay gratification (something even adults have trouble with), I can teach them to occupy themselves with books, toys etc. This teaching happens at home, in the store, in the car. The skill might transfer to the plane environment and it might not. Is it completely out of the question that the other passengers take a step or two to avoid being annoyed?

Yes. Why should anybody have to suffer because your child, who you have potentially full control over, is being an annoying d!ck?

Not to mention that human babies are ugly as fvck. Why are the babies of all other animals so much cuter than ours?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/19/2013 5:33:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
When children above the age of two are unruly, I find it to be the fault of the parents. They need to discipline their kids. As for babies, they tend to be hard to control -- and who cares, they're really cute!
USNavySquid
Posts: 24
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8/19/2013 5:34:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:24:40 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:22:53 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:15:41 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:12:32 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:09:51 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:08:26 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).

That sounds vindictive. I don't think parents (me) should have to pay extra to take our kids to see their grandparents, or for any other reason. I suggest using ear plugs or a music headset. You might suggest that the grandparents can just skype with the grandkids. I think any grandparent would tell you that skyping falls far short of holding a grandbaby.

I couldn't care less about your petty emotional attachments. An effective compromise would be drugging the child to make sure that they are asleep during the flight.

Well, the fact that you don't care makes you sound selfish, unwilling to see the other person's point of view and unwilling to compromise. All of which makes your view easy to dismiss. I agree that putting kids to sleep is an attractive idea. The risk for miscalculating the dosage is too high, however.

Wait, how exactly was saying "Just put in earplugs" a compromise?
You're right. But an adult has more power to choose his/her responses to a crying kid than a kid does to an unwanted airplane ride.
That sounds more like a selfish "I shouldn't have to deal with any consequences for having misbehaving kids or being a burden to those around me".

On the plane, after paying the obscenely overpriced ticket that LordKnuckles suggested, how do you expect the parent to deal with the consequences if the kid is still making a racket? What better outcome is there is the kid continues to scream? Put in the ear plugs and surrender. What more can be done by the annoyed passengers? What more can the parent do to lessen the burden?

I'd be much more willing to accept the situation if the extra cost of the child's ticket was passed on as savings to those distracted by the brat.

That's great of you. Others might feel the same way at first. But then get used to the savings and demand more. And then more. And then invent degrees of burden. "I got a 10% discount for being on a plane with a crying kid. But this particular kid was way more annoying than can be covered by a lousy 10%. Give me more." Not only that, but it lumps the parents into a new, explicit category of passenger. Making it all the more easy to direct hostility and demands for compensation at them.

I guess if, like you, everyone on the plane said to themselves "Well, they paid 3x my ticket and I got a 10% discount. So I'll just tolerate their screaming kids" then I would be satisfied. But, I don't think people would maintain that stance in the long run.
YYW
Posts: 36,345
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8/19/2013 5:35:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:28:49 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:24:44 PM, YYW wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:08:26 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).

That sounds vindictive. I don't think parents (me) should have to pay extra to take our kids to see their grandparents, or for any other reason. I suggest using ear plugs or a music headset.

I just want to point out that the only reason why people suggest penalizing parents for bringing their kids with them in public is because parents fail to keep their kids under control. If your little angels were well behaved, this wouldn't be an issue (and if they are, then it's not a problem).

Even the kids of good parents can have outbursts.

While outbursts piss me off, what I'm specifically talking about in the OP is when babies/kids wail/whine/cry/scream/throw tantrums for prolonged periods of time. I can understand if your toddler has a toothache. I cannot understand parents just letting it go on, inflicting their child on the rest of society, without doing something about it.

I can teach them to delay gratification (something even adults have trouble with), I can teach them to occupy themselves with books, toys etc. This teaching happens at home, in the store, in the car.

Whatever works for you, I'm ok with.

The skill might transfer to the plane environment and it might not.

Either your action, in your lack of action, as the parent of a child you are accountable for what they do. It's not about what "may or may not" transfer, it's about whether you got it right, as a parent or not.

Is it completely out of the question that the other passengers take a step or two to avoid being annoyed? Such as ear plugs?

So you're still claiming that the rest of society should have to suffer or accommodate because some parents fail to properly maintain control of their children?
Tsar of DDO
USNavySquid
Posts: 24
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8/19/2013 5:36:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:24:58 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:22:53 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:15:41 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:12:32 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:09:51 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:08:26 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).

That sounds vindictive. I don't think parents (me) should have to pay extra to take our kids to see their grandparents, or for any other reason. I suggest using ear plugs or a music headset. You might suggest that the grandparents can just skype with the grandkids. I think any grandparent would tell you that skyping falls far short of holding a grandbaby.

I couldn't care less about your petty emotional attachments. An effective compromise would be drugging the child to make sure that they are asleep during the flight.

Well, the fact that you don't care makes you sound selfish, unwilling to see the other person's point of view and unwilling to compromise. All of which makes your view easy to dismiss. I agree that putting kids to sleep is an attractive idea. The risk for miscalculating the dosage is too high, however.

Wait, how exactly was saying "Just put in earplugs" a compromise?
You're right. But an adult has more power to choose his/her responses to a crying kid than a kid does to an unwanted airplane ride.
That sounds more like a selfish "I shouldn't have to deal with any consequences for having misbehaving kids or being a burden to those around me".

On the plane, after paying the obscenely overpriced ticket that LordKnuckles suggested, how do you expect the parent to deal with the consequences if the kid is still making a racket?

They already have, by paying the obscenely overpriced ticket.

You suggested the earplugs IN LIEU of the ticket, thus suggesting that everyone else should suffer for your convenience.

What better outcome is there is the kid continues to scream? Put in the ear plugs and surrender. What more can be done by the annoyed passengers? What more can the parent do to lessen the burden?

Well, by having paid more in ticket price, parents are dicincentivized to bring their kids. Hypothetically, the extra money from having those kids could go towards ways of ameliorating the harm your kids cause.

Possibly. On the hand, I just might be more motivated to budget properly and save enough beforehand and/or find a great deal.
USNavySquid
Posts: 24
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8/19/2013 5:39:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/19/2013 5:25:57 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:24:53 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:18:49 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:17:36 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:14:59 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:12:32 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:09:51 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/19/2013 5:08:26 PM, USNavySquid wrote:
At 8/19/2013 11:04:04 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
The biggest problem is in airplanes. Airline companies should force parents to pay obscenely high amounts to take children under three on board (2-3x regular ticket prices).

That sounds vindictive. I don't think parents (me) should have to pay extra to take our kids to see their grandparents, or for any other reason. I suggest using ear plugs or a music headset. You might suggest that the grandparents can just skype with the grandkids. I think any grandparent would tell you that skyping falls far short of holding a grandbaby.

I couldn't care less about your petty emotional attachments. An effective compromise would be drugging the child to make sure that they are asleep during the flight.

Well, the fact that you don't care makes you sound selfish, unwilling to see the other person's point of view and unwilling to compromise.

Very well aware.

All of which makes your view easy to dismiss.

Totally non sequitur.

I agree that putting kids to sleep is an attractive idea. The risk for miscalculating the dosage is too high, however.

It would take a real idiot to accidentally overdose on sleeping pills. Those people might as well die already.

I've never heard of administering sleeping pills to children.

Then you're an idiot.

I would think it would be more tricky/dangerous than administering to adults. Especially infants and toddlers.

Not really. Just lower the dosage and adjust for body weight. It's not rocket science.

I disagree. I think its risky. I would never do it.

Great argument, bud. You wanna tell me how you "disagree" with gravity?

You think it is as easy as lowering the dosage and taking into account a toddler body weight. I don't think it is that easy. "I cut the pill in half (or whatever) and now my baby isn't waking up!" You can't foresee stories like that in the news?