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The psychology of a rapist

Cermank
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8/24/2013 12:25:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
http://kafila.org...

This is one interesting article. A definite check out material, but if you don't want to read it (it is a little long), here's the summary:

Kavita Krishnan contends that rape is a symptom of class warfare. A voice against/ for the structural hierarchy in the society.

As we embrace capitalism,we force an integration of women AND men equally into the capitalist working class. However, that also leads to the 'marketing' of the role of mothers, in a sense, leading to higher costs for a family. Capitalism, on the whole, thus has these two contradicting impulses- one of drawing the women in the workforce, and the other of "retaining reproductive labour as 'women's work' so as to ensure that the cost of such labour is minimized, both for the wage-paying capitalist as well as for the capitalist State." Thus, as the states have to cut back on capital spending, in order to rescue capitalism, they have had to force women to accept the role of caregiver (thus the increased mysogynistic quotes lately by the Senators.)

The problem of rape, thus, isn't about some lone anti-social elements misbehaving in the public because of patriarchial ideals ingrained in them, it is a systematic response of the high amount of investment the capitalist class has in the role of 'women' and the family institution.

The only solution, thus, is systematic restructuring of the society, aka communism.

Capitalism = rape.

I don't know if I agree with it as of now, but this is one of those articles that makes you think. What do you think?
Wnope
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8/24/2013 4:44:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 12:25:38 PM, Cermank wrote:
http://kafila.org...

This is one interesting article. A definite check out material, but if you don't want to read it (it is a little long), here's the summary:

Kavita Krishnan contends that rape is a symptom of class warfare. A voice against/ for the structural hierarchy in the society.

As we embrace capitalism,we force an integration of women AND men equally into the capitalist working class. However, that also leads to the 'marketing' of the role of mothers, in a sense, leading to higher costs for a family. Capitalism, on the whole, thus has these two contradicting impulses- one of drawing the women in the workforce, and the other of "retaining reproductive labour as 'women's work' so as to ensure that the cost of such labour is minimized, both for the wage-paying capitalist as well as for the capitalist State." Thus, as the states have to cut back on capital spending, in order to rescue capitalism, they have had to force women to accept the role of caregiver (thus the increased mysogynistic quotes lately by the Senators.)

The problem of rape, thus, isn't about some lone anti-social elements misbehaving in the public because of patriarchial ideals ingrained in them, it is a systematic response of the high amount of investment the capitalist class has in the role of 'women' and the family institution.

The only solution, thus, is systematic restructuring of the society, aka communism.

Capitalism = rape.

I don't know if I agree with it as of now, but this is one of those articles that makes you think. What do you think?

It seems the article is more along the lines of "everything is rape, but capitalism aids it."

"Only pre-capitalist structures that provide a base for patriarchy; and consequently that in the advanced capitalist countries, gender oppression remained only in the form of "patriarchal attitudes", "essentially as a part of the superstructure.""

" The persistence of pre-capitalist structures and extremely stubborn feudal survivals in India is undoubtedly significant in producing the specifically Indian variant of patriarchal oppression."

The biggest anti-capitalist claim I'm seeing here is: "neoliberal policies pursued by global capital are complicit in perpetuating women"s oppression and redeploying patriarchal structures and attitudes in order to exploit women"s labour"

This isn't "capitalism is bad" it's "patriarchy is bad."

Also, on a more practical level, it is f*cking ridiculous to suggest that a communist society would have no rape, murder, theft, everything that this good ol' society has.

Capitalism is not rape.
Rape is rape.

Capitalism pursued without regard for secondary consequences can make things worse than they already were by undermining any social structure which does protect women, but this assumes such social structures had any influence in the first place.

The closest thing I can see to blaming capitalism is that when communities get bigger and aren't as attached to each other there tends to be a breakdown in civil norms (namely due to anonymity). Same reason a town with 100 people will have less crime per capita than a comparable town with 10,000 people.

Can you find a single country that does not rely on capitalism but has women's right and women's ideals more in place than European democratic capitalist countries?
Lordknukle
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8/24/2013 6:37:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Kinda hard to take a person seriously when they say that "capitalism= rape." The appropriate response in that scenario would be to drug them and drop them off at a mental institution.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Fractals
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8/24/2013 9:17:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
1. If you're going to do a topic on rape, be responsible, show modicum of maturity and know to put trigger warnings in either the topic header or before you begin. Like this

== Trigger Warning, Rape Discussion==

If you don't know why this is important, do some basic research.

2. Not blaming a rapist for the act of rape, is one of the most dickish, ivory tower arguments possible.

3. Even if you ignore that, saying one vague societal thing causes it, is absurd.

4. Know your history. It's not that hard to research historical instances where rape occurs frequently in communist eras.
Cermank
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8/25/2013 1:17:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 4:44:22 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 8/24/2013 12:25:38 PM, Cermank wrote:
http://kafila.org...


It seems the article is more along the lines of "everything is rape, but capitalism aids it."

"Only pre-capitalist structures that provide a base for patriarchy; and consequently that in the advanced capitalist countries, gender oppression remained only in the form of "patriarchal attitudes", "essentially as a part of the superstructure.""

" The persistence of pre-capitalist structures and extremely stubborn feudal survivals in India is undoubtedly significant in producing the specifically Indian variant of patriarchal oppression."

The biggest anti-capitalist claim I'm seeing here is: "neoliberal policies pursued by global capital are complicit in perpetuating women"s oppression and redeploying patriarchal structures and attitudes in order to exploit women"s labour"

This isn't "capitalism is bad" it's "patriarchy is bad."

Also, on a more practical level, it is f*cking ridiculous to suggest that a communist society would have no rape, murder, theft, everything that this good ol' society has.

Capitalism is not rape.
Rape is rape.

Perhaps a better equation would have been hierarchical classes = rape. Because capitalism is a system that reinforces classes, rape is something that would be inherent in any capitalistic structure. Pre-capitalistic structures did have a stronger class structure, hence the patriarchal 'superstructure' was inherent in that system.

"... Patriarchy is therefore one of the axes of the capitalist system; part and parcel of the structural edifice of capitalism. Patriarchal ideology does not hang unsupported in the air; it is not a matter of "mindset" or "attitude" alone: notions of feminine "nature", "duties", "good and bad women", and sexual propriety for women, are produced, nourished, and deployed to mask, mystify, and justify women"s unpaid reproductive labour and the patriarchal family where such labour takes place...."

Capitalism pursued without regard for secondary consequences can make things worse than they already were by undermining any social structure which does protect women, but this assumes such social structures had any influence in the first place.

Which social structure are you referring to here?

The closest thing I can see to blaming capitalism is that when communities get bigger and aren't as attached to each other there tends to be a breakdown in civil norms (namely due to anonymity). Same reason a town with 100 people will have less crime per capita than a comparable town with 10,000 people.

The argument for capitalism=rape extends from the class structure argument. So, in that sense, rape, they say, is either a revenge by a lower class person with a mentality of 'You f*cked us economically, we rape yo women', OR it is an extension of a higher class person going, ' We are heirarchially placed above you, you owe us yo woman', every form of rape has power structure (and by extension, class structure) playing into the dynamics.

Can you find a single country that does not rely on capitalism but has women's right and women's ideals more in place than European democratic capitalist countries?

But that's the thing no? We don't really have a country with an economic structure other than a capitalist country. What we can do is compare the evolution of rape as the society evolved from feudal structure to capitalism, thereby weakening some of the class distinction. The patriarchial attitude shifted. In India, for example, patrirchy is still engrained in the system, because we still have an essence of feudal structures in the society, especially villages. In towns, that sentiment is lower, but because people in towns still reminiscent of the villages (a majority), that superstructure is ingrained into their psych.

I would contend that the patriarchal attitudes in US, for example, or in Australia or New Zealand would be less than in the third world countries with a amalgamation of precapitalist and capitalist structures.

But, given the fact that capitalism, too relies on class structures, and reinforces them: the inherent patriarchy still does reach the highest ladder and forms the superstructure- thus making it inherent in the form of economic structure.
Cermank
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8/25/2013 1:18:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 6:37:38 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Kinda hard to take a person seriously when they say that "capitalism= rape." The appropriate response in that scenario would be to drug them and drop them off at a mental institution.

Try. The reasoning looks sound.
Cermank
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8/25/2013 1:30:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 9:17:42 PM, Fractals wrote:
1. If you're going to do a topic on rape, be responsible, show modicum of maturity and know to put trigger warnings in either the topic header or before you begin. Like this

== Trigger Warning, Rape Discussion==

If you don't know why this is important, do some basic research.

You seem a bit rattled. I thought given the topic included the words 'psychology' and 'rapist', it would have been clear that we would be talking about rape, making it a rape discussion. But I understand this is a touchy topic, so I apologize if you felt uncomfortable.

2. Not blaming a rapist for the act of rape, is one of the most dickish, ivory tower arguments possible.

This I take a little offence to. Nowhere in the arguments are we taking away the blame from the rapist. We are trying to understand why it occurs. Rape does not need to be taboo topic, talking about rape, trying to understand why they occur so we can propose a solution is not d!ckish at all. D!ckish would be to be stuck on a defensive, repeating the same argument again and again, (even when it ceases to be an argument), without trying to understand what the speaker is contending.

Rapist is responsible for rape, no arguments. This is not even open for arguments.

Why the 'rape culture' is prevalent is what is being talked about here.

3. Even if you ignore that, saying one vague societal thing causes it, is absurd.

We aren't ignoring that. Perhaps you were too rattled to think clearly, just read the OP once again. This is an attempt to dissect the rape culture.

4. Know your history. It's not that hard to research historical instances where rape occurs frequently in communist eras.

There was never a communist era. In the supposed 'communist' eras, there was too much of animosity between bourgeois and proletariats, for there ever to be a 'no class'.
Wnope
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8/25/2013 2:15:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/25/2013 1:17:06 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 8/24/2013 4:44:22 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 8/24/2013 12:25:38 PM, Cermank wrote:
http://kafila.org...


It seems the article is more along the lines of "everything is rape, but capitalism aids it."

"Only pre-capitalist structures that provide a base for patriarchy; and consequently that in the advanced capitalist countries, gender oppression remained only in the form of "patriarchal attitudes", "essentially as a part of the superstructure.""

" The persistence of pre-capitalist structures and extremely stubborn feudal survivals in India is undoubtedly significant in producing the specifically Indian variant of patriarchal oppression."

The biggest anti-capitalist claim I'm seeing here is: "neoliberal policies pursued by global capital are complicit in perpetuating women"s oppression and redeploying patriarchal structures and attitudes in order to exploit women"s labour"

This isn't "capitalism is bad" it's "patriarchy is bad."

Also, on a more practical level, it is f*cking ridiculous to suggest that a communist society would have no rape, murder, theft, everything that this good ol' society has.

Capitalism is not rape.
Rape is rape.

Perhaps a better equation would have been hierarchical classes = rape. Because capitalism is a system that reinforces classes, rape is something that would be inherent in any capitalistic structure. Pre-capitalistic structures did have a stronger class structure, hence the patriarchal 'superstructure' was inherent in that system.

"... Patriarchy is therefore one of the axes of the capitalist system; part and parcel of the structural edifice of capitalism. Patriarchal ideology does not hang unsupported in the air; it is not a matter of "mindset" or "attitude" alone: notions of feminine "nature", "duties", "good and bad women", and sexual propriety for women, are produced, nourished, and deployed to mask, mystify, and justify women"s unpaid reproductive labour and the patriarchal family where such labour takes place...."

Capitalism pursued without regard for secondary consequences can make things worse than they already were by undermining any social structure which does protect women, but this assumes such social structures had any influence in the first place.

Which social structure are you referring to here?

The closest thing I can see to blaming capitalism is that when communities get bigger and aren't as attached to each other there tends to be a breakdown in civil norms (namely due to anonymity). Same reason a town with 100 people will have less crime per capita than a comparable town with 10,000 people.

The argument for capitalism=rape extends from the class structure argument. So, in that sense, rape, they say, is either a revenge by a lower class person with a mentality of 'You f*cked us economically, we rape yo women', OR it is an extension of a higher class person going, ' We are heirarchially placed above you, you owe us yo woman', every form of rape has power structure (and by extension, class structure) playing into the dynamics.

Can you find a single country that does not rely on capitalism but has women's right and women's ideals more in place than European democratic capitalist countries?

But that's the thing no? We don't really have a country with an economic structure other than a capitalist country. What we can do is compare the evolution of rape as the society evolved from feudal structure to capitalism, thereby weakening some of the class distinction. The patriarchial attitude shifted. In India, for example, patrirchy is still engrained in the system, because we still have an essence of feudal structures in the society, especially villages. In towns, that sentiment is lower, but because people in towns still reminiscent of the villages (a majority), that superstructure is ingrained into their psych.

I would contend that the patriarchal attitudes in US, for example, or in Australia or New Zealand would be less than in the third world countries with a amalgamation of precapitalist and capitalist structures.

But, given the fact that capitalism, too relies on class structures, and reinforces them: the inherent patriarchy still does reach the highest ladder and forms the superstructure- thus making it inherent in the form of economic structure.

Is it hierarchical class or patriarchies within those classes that are the at fault?

You can have class without a patriarchy. You can have capitalism without patriarchy.

Dismantling the patriarchy as a task is different from trying to dismantle or alter capitalism. You could have as ideal a communist nation as you like, and there's no reason to think that patriarchial customs and mindsets can't remain. Even moreso there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to think rape would not occur in a communist country.

My core problem is this: economic reasoning about rape completely obscures the problem of rape in favor of an ideological pitch whose premise (we need to convert the entire world to communism) does not need to be fulfilled before we can accomplish something legitimate.

It's one thing to talk about exploitation, but when you use the word rape it's a whole other ballpark.

Want to know the psychology of a rapist?

http://harfordmedlegal.typepad.com...
Wnope
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8/25/2013 2:25:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
To summarize, if you go with Quanticos imperfect categorization, rapists break down approximately as follows:

If you look at these profiles carefully, you'll see in each case where society can pick up the slack without going Red.

81% of rapists- Power Reassurance

This is the easiest offender to deal with. His motive is sexual (even though rape is not about sex) He is trying to increase his self esteem through the control of another person. You can usually try talking him out of the rape, flat our refuse, or fight back. He really doesn't want to hurt the victim and will use only enough force to control her.

12%- Power Assertive

"The Power Assertive rapist has an extreme sense of superiority and entitlement. He will rape women simply because he can. For him, rape is a way of validating his masculinity. This is what men do, according to him. "

5% Anger-retalitory

"This guy is out to hurt someone. He blames women for all the injustices he has suffered in his life. His hate and anger are out of control. He wants to punish, hurt and degrade them. His psycho-social background includes physical and emotional abuse (more than 56%) from one or both parents. About 80% had divorced parents, many were adopted, and over half spent time in foster care. His relationships with significant females was extremely poor growing up which created very hostile feelings towards the opposite sex."

Sadistic Rapist

" His intent is to degrade, torture, and kill. It's the only way he can get sexual satisfaction. His psycho-social background will include being raised in a single parent household and suffering from physical abuse and sexual deviance. This type of child often shows aggressive and sexual promiscuity tendencies early on."
Jack212
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8/25/2013 6:44:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 12:25:38 PM, Cermank wrote:
[load of crap]

Sorry, but you lost my vote as soon as I saw the word "Marxist". Marxism is philosophical rubbish and isn't based on real-world observation. That's why every country that's embraced it is corrupt and technologically impaired.

Also, rape occurs in all societies, demographics and classes. Places where rape is more common have higher overall crime rates or are actively perpetrating genocide/slavery. Rape, like almost all crimes, occurs because people are selfish and f*cked up. It is NOT a tool of the patriarchy (or whatever group you hate), and claiming it to be such is insulting to the victims.
Lordknukle
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8/25/2013 11:43:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/25/2013 1:18:10 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 8/24/2013 6:37:38 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Kinda hard to take a person seriously when they say that "capitalism= rape." The appropriate response in that scenario would be to drug them and drop them off at a mental institution.

Try. The reasoning looks sound.

No it doesn't- it's a joke. The author, like all communists, is using veneered and alluring meaningless rhetoric to make it seem as if they are conveying some deeply philosophical point, when instead, they're just spouting meaningless blabber.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Cermank
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8/25/2013 12:31:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why the hell are people so dismissive of Marx? :/

The post makes sense. The internal workings of class dynamics are directly correlated with patriarchy. And the rape culture.

Perhaps focusing on the hierarchy and its impact on rape culture/ patriarchy would be non- beneficial in the long run, I can agree with that. Something Wnope brought up too.
Cermank
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8/25/2013 12:41:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/25/2013 12:31:19 PM, Cermank wrote:
Why the hell are people so dismissive of Marx? :/

The post makes sense. The internal workings of class dynamics are directly correlated with patriarchy. And the rape culture.

Perhaps focusing on the hierarchy and its impact on rape culture/ patriarchy would be non- beneficial in the long run, I can agree with that. Something Wnope brought up too.

But at least the idea of it is interesting. Even if it is dangerous to talk about it.

And Marx is cool.
Lordknukle
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8/25/2013 1:05:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Because Marx is a bearded joke.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
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8/25/2013 1:32:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/25/2013 1:31:47 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 8/25/2013 1:05:06 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Because Marx is a bearded joke.

You are a bearded joke.

Not yet.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Cermank
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8/25/2013 1:34:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/25/2013 1:32:22 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/25/2013 1:31:47 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 8/25/2013 1:05:06 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Because Marx is a bearded joke.

You are a bearded joke.

Not yet.

Just a joke then.
Lordknukle
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8/25/2013 1:36:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/25/2013 1:34:27 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 8/25/2013 1:32:22 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/25/2013 1:31:47 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 8/25/2013 1:05:06 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Because Marx is a bearded joke.

You are a bearded joke.

Not yet.

Just a joke then.

Sure.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Maikuru
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8/25/2013 8:25:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/25/2013 1:34:27 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 8/25/2013 1:32:22 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/25/2013 1:31:47 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 8/25/2013 1:05:06 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Because Marx is a bearded joke.

You are a bearded joke.

Not yet.

Just a joke then.

LOL people have such great comebacks on this site. I can never think of anything really cutting. I'm basically George Costanza and the jerk store.
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Jack212
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8/25/2013 10:53:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/25/2013 12:31:19 PM, Cermank wrote:
Why the hell are people so dismissive of Marx? :/

The post makes sense. The internal workings of class dynamics are directly correlated with patriarchy. And the rape culture.

Perhaps focusing on the hierarchy and its impact on rape culture/ patriarchy would be non- beneficial in the long run, I can agree with that. Something Wnope brought up too.

"Rape culture" is bullsh!t. Society doesn't condone rape, it considers it a horrible crime and rapists to be the lowest of the low. Sometimes people don't understand what is and isn't rape, or exactly what the victim is going through, or they believe the rapist's account over the victim's, all of which makes the situation much harder to deal with. That doesn't mean they condone rape in principle, and saying/implying that they do just puts them on the defensive and makes the whole thing worse.
AlbinoBunny
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9/6/2013 9:43:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/25/2013 6:44:03 AM, Jack212 wrote:
At 8/24/2013 12:25:38 PM, Cermank wrote:
[load of crap]

Sorry, but you lost my vote as soon as I saw the word "Marxist". Marxism is philosophical rubbish and isn't based on real-world observation. That's why every country that's embraced it is corrupt and technologically impaired.

That's a fallacy, I'm sure. You need to prove capitalism can survive indefinitely, to completely dismiss Marxism.


Also, rape occurs in all societies, demographics and classes. Places where rape is more common have higher overall crime rates or are actively perpetrating genocide/slavery. Rape, like almost all crimes, occurs because people are selfish and f*cked up. It is NOT a tool of the patriarchy (or whatever group you hate), and claiming it to be such is insulting to the victims.

Rape occurs in many species, including humans. Though I'm sure that some aspects of society could exacerbate it or reduce it as well.
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ConservativeAmerican
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9/6/2013 12:41:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If rape doesn't occur in communism, why are nations like Vietnam and Cuba unwilling to publish their rape rates and rape crimes like all other dirty capitalist nations do?
Jack212
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9/6/2013 2:25:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/6/2013 12:41:10 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
If rape doesn't occur in communism, why are nations like Vietnam and Cuba unwilling to publish their rape rates and rape crimes like all other dirty capitalist nations do?

Exactly.
Jack212
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9/6/2013 2:42:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/6/2013 9:43:03 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/25/2013 6:44:03 AM, Jack212 wrote:
At 8/24/2013 12:25:38 PM, Cermank wrote:
[load of crap]

Sorry, but you lost my vote as soon as I saw the word "Marxist". Marxism is philosophical rubbish and isn't based on real-world observation. That's why every country that's embraced it is corrupt and technologically impaired.

That's a fallacy, I'm sure. You need to prove capitalism can survive indefinitely, to completely dismiss Marxism.

Not true, I can dismiss Marxism purely on its own merits. The absence of one does not imply the other.
Cermank
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9/7/2013 2:42:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/6/2013 12:41:10 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
If rape doesn't occur in communism, why are nations like Vietnam and Cuba unwilling to publish their rape rates and rape crimes like all other dirty capitalist nations do?

Because Vietnam and Cuba aren't communist countries.

This isn't an argument for communism- this is an argument against class structure. About the relationship between class structure and patriarchy. Is there no class structure in Cuba?
Cermank
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9/7/2013 2:49:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/6/2013 2:42:07 PM, Jack212 wrote:
At 9/6/2013 9:43:03 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/25/2013 6:44:03 AM, Jack212 wrote:
At 8/24/2013 12:25:38 PM, Cermank wrote:
[load of crap]

Sorry, but you lost my vote as soon as I saw the word "Marxist". Marxism is philosophical rubbish and isn't based on real-world observation. That's why every country that's embraced it is corrupt and technologically impaired.

That's a fallacy, I'm sure. You need to prove capitalism can survive indefinitely, to completely dismiss Marxism.

Not true, I can dismiss Marxism purely on its own merits. The absence of one does not imply the other.

Are we discussing Marxism here?

No.

Is the implicit assumption here that Marxism has some merit?

No.

Is there class structure in capitalism?

I think yes. If you have a problem with that, you can discuss that. Agreeing/ disagreeing with Marxism has no bearing on the discussion.

Does class structure have a bearing on patriarchy?

This is the thrust of the discussion.

/antimarxists
Eitan_Zohar
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9/7/2013 2:58:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/25/2013 8:25:43 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 8/25/2013 1:34:27 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 8/25/2013 1:32:22 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/25/2013 1:31:47 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 8/25/2013 1:05:06 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Because Marx is a bearded joke.

You are a bearded joke.

Not yet.

Just a joke then.

LOL people have such great comebacks on this site. I can never think of anything really cutting. I'm basically George Costanza and the jerk store.



You aren't so bad. I recall your comebacks on my thread about Danielle's lousy debate tactics.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Jack212
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9/7/2013 3:07:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 2:49:37 AM, Cermank wrote:

Are we discussing Marxism here?

No.

Wrong. The article cited Marxism, so Marxism is very relevant.

Is the implicit assumption here that Marxism has some merit?

No.

I don't even remember. I'd have to re-read the article, which I don't feel like doing.

Is there class structure in capitalism?

I think yes. If you have a problem with that, you can discuss that. Agreeing/ disagreeing with Marxism has no bearing on the discussion.

Upper class = Rich people.
Middle class = Average people.
Lower class = Poor people.

This is not disputed.

Does class structure have a bearing on patriarchy?

This is the thrust of the discussion.

Not unless it separates people based on gender, which capitalism doesn't. If it doesn't then it's irrelevant.