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The Best Social Science: Sociology.

Disquisition
Posts: 391
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8/30/2013 12:09:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
After my first week in sociology I'm almost entirely convinced that the sociological imagination/perspective is the most ideal way to view life. Not to downplay the other social sciences but most of them specialize without looking at the social context of problems (the influences of the society).

Literally 99% of the time, personal problems are usually social problems that individuals face due to their social contexts like family, community, era etc.....

I think sociologist are more equipped to provide answers for why things are this way or that way. I'll expand on this as I learn more in the course (glad I took this over psychology).
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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8/30/2013 1:38:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 12:09:18 AM, Disquisition wrote:
After my first week in sociology I'm almost entirely convinced that the sociological imagination/perspective is the most ideal way to view life. Not to downplay the other social sciences but most of them specialize without looking at the social context of problems (the influences of the society).

Literally 99% of the time, personal problems are usually social problems that individuals face due to their social contexts like family, community, era etc.....

I think sociologist are more equipped to provide answers for why things are this way or that way. I'll expand on this as I learn more in the course (glad I took this over psychology).

can you clarify what kind of things that make this discipline special?
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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8/30/2013 12:32:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 12:09:18 AM, Disquisition wrote:
After my first week in sociology I'm almost entirely convinced that the sociological imagination/perspective is the most ideal way to view life. Not to downplay the other social sciences but most of them specialize without looking at the social context of problems (the influences of the society).

Literally 99% of the time, personal problems are usually social problems that individuals face due to their social contexts like family, community, era etc.....

I think sociologist are more equipped to provide answers for why things are this way or that way. I'll expand on this as I learn more in the course (glad I took this over psychology).

Newb.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/30/2013 4:03:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Remove the word "science" and you are completely correct.

Science: Math, Biology, Chemistry, Physics

Not Science: Psychology, Economics, Sociology, Anthropology, etc...
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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8/30/2013 5:01:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 4:03:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Remove the word "science" and you are completely correct.

The Best Social: Sociology?
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/30/2013 5:20:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 5:01:41 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 8/30/2013 4:03:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Remove the word "science" and you are completely correct.

The Best Social: Sociology?
At least it makes more sense than anything he ever said before.
Lordknukle
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8/30/2013 6:29:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 5:01:41 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 8/30/2013 4:03:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Remove the word "science" and you are completely correct.

The Best Social: Sociology?

Not really my point.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Maikuru
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8/30/2013 6:33:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 6:29:54 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/30/2013 5:01:41 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 8/30/2013 4:03:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Remove the word "science" and you are completely correct.

The Best Social: Sociology?

Not really my point.

I know, I just enjoy injecting bits of levity here and there =)
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
Disquisition
Posts: 391
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8/30/2013 7:17:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 4:03:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Remove the word "science" and you are completely correct.

Science: Math, Biology, Chemistry, Physics

Not Science: Psychology, Economics, Sociology, Anthropology, etc...

No it is a social science, don't know what your trying to get at

see below

http://en.wikipedia.org...
Disquisition
Posts: 391
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8/30/2013 7:20:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 5:20:24 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 8/30/2013 5:01:41 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 8/30/2013 4:03:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Remove the word "science" and you are completely correct.

The Best Social: Sociology?
At least it makes more sense than anything he ever said before.

You gauge total intelligence through internet post ok buddy boy??!?!?

p :p :p
Disquisition
Posts: 391
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8/30/2013 7:36:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 1:38:59 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
can you clarify what kind of things that make this discipline special?

I'm still in the first chapter so I'll provide a few reasons as I go along, but this really stood out.

Using a sociological imagination, we began to see that personal problems are actually social issues shared by individuals in a particular era, institution, university, neighborhood, community etc...
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/30/2013 7:39:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 7:17:34 PM, Disquisition wrote:
At 8/30/2013 4:03:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Remove the word "science" and you are completely correct.

Science: Math, Biology, Chemistry, Physics

Not Science: Psychology, Economics, Sociology, Anthropology, etc...

No it is a social science, don't know what your trying to get at

see below

http://en.wikipedia.org...

"Social science" is a misnomer, because it assumes that the scientific method is applicable to that field. Under your list, "law' is considered a "social science," even though it exhibits absolutely no characteristics of the scientific method. Same thing with sociology, economics, psychology, etc...
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Disquisition
Posts: 391
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8/30/2013 8:01:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 7:39:44 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/30/2013 7:17:34 PM, Disquisition wrote:
At 8/30/2013 4:03:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Remove the word "science" and you are completely correct.

Science: Math, Biology, Chemistry, Physics

Not Science: Psychology, Economics, Sociology, Anthropology, etc...

No it is a social science, don't know what your trying to get at

see below

http://en.wikipedia.org...

"Social science" is a misnomer, because it assumes that the scientific method is applicable to that field. Under your list, "law' is considered a "social science," even though it exhibits absolutely no characteristics of the scientific method. Same thing with sociology, economics, psychology, etc...

I see your point but why do you think application of the scientific method determines what is and isn't science. The scientific method shouldn't be thought of has a step-by-step procedure, it is a very board term that encourages imagination and creativity.

I realize sociologist may not follow a set of strict protocol like the others, but it is indeed a social science. Generally they dip into all the other social sciences when conducting research in order to formulate different perspectives about the social context of a situation.

Also that's why I said Social Science and not just science in the first place.
Lordknukle
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8/30/2013 9:43:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 8:01:47 PM, Disquisition wrote:
At 8/30/2013 7:39:44 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/30/2013 7:17:34 PM, Disquisition wrote:
At 8/30/2013 4:03:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Remove the word "science" and you are completely correct.

Science: Math, Biology, Chemistry, Physics

Not Science: Psychology, Economics, Sociology, Anthropology, etc...

No it is a social science, don't know what your trying to get at

see below

http://en.wikipedia.org...

"Social science" is a misnomer, because it assumes that the scientific method is applicable to that field. Under your list, "law' is considered a "social science," even though it exhibits absolutely no characteristics of the scientific method. Same thing with sociology, economics, psychology, etc...

I see your point but why do you think application of the scientific method determines what is and isn't science. The scientific method shouldn't be thought of has a step-by-step procedure, it is a very board term that encourages imagination and creativity.

Not really. The scientific method is in fact a step by step procedure:

background evidence -> hypothesis -> testing -> theory -> acceptance

The key, however, is that the result can always be replicated. That is where social "sciences" differ from real sciences.

I realize sociologist may not follow a set of strict protocol like the others, but it is indeed a social science. Generally they dip into all the other social sciences when conducting research in order to formulate different perspectives about the social context of a situation.

That's not really an argument, bud.

Also that's why I said Social Science and not just science in the first place.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Disquisition
Posts: 391
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9/5/2013 9:01:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Interesting discussion on POWER today in class

The central theme: We aren't always fully aware when power is acting on us and the extent at which it controls/manipulates us.

We defined power as the capacity to commit or prevent certain actions from occurring and we broke it into three components: one dimensional power, two dimensional power, and three dimensional power.

One Dimensional Power

Power is observable in many different contexts and can be deemed legitimate or illegitimate. Legitimate power is when the people/person in power has the right to be in that position. Much like a boss/worker relationship or electing officials into office. Illegitimate power is gained from controlling individuals by coercion; like drug cartels claiming to "own" a portion of a city. What makes in one-dimensional is that we can only identify when power is being exercised and who is in power.

Two Dimensional Power

This type of power adheres to the fact that the individuals who have power can set/manipulate/control the agenda for future events. They deem what is and isn't important which can lead to exploitation and negligence of certain groups. It's a two dimensional view because it recognizes who has the power and the extent at which that person can enforce his/her power.

Three Dimensional Power

This view of power recognizes the other dimensions but goes on to explain that powerful people associate with other powerful people. It also talks about how people in power attempt to minimalize issues/problems by convincing subordinate groups that it is in their best interest to abide by the status quo. This is the side of power we can't see in that, we aren't allowed to associate in such "meetings" and depend on transparency.

How do you view power and do you need clarification on any of the above?
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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9/5/2013 9:03:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 4:03:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Remove the word "science" and you are completely correct.

Science: Math, Biology, Chemistry, Physics

Not Science: Psychology, Economics, Sociology, Anthropology, etc...

Math is not a science in ANY, ANY, ANY capacity. Yes, it's STEM, but not science.

Anyway, why is it so significant that the social studies are not sciences? Does that make them less worthy as fields of study?
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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9/5/2013 9:19:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/5/2013 9:03:33 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/30/2013 4:03:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Remove the word "science" and you are completely correct.

Science: Math, Biology, Chemistry, Physics

Not Science: Psychology, Economics, Sociology, Anthropology, etc...

Math is not a science in ANY, ANY, ANY capacity. Yes, it's STEM, but not science.

Anyway, why is it so significant that the social studies are not sciences? Does that make them less worthy as fields of study?

I still don't get why social sciences aren't considered sciences in LK's mind.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
Disquisition
Posts: 391
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9/5/2013 10:44:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
For those who are confused on how sociologist conduct research I'll explain.

Usually method (loosely) followed by sociologists

1. Define the topic
2. Review literature (that is previous experiments on topic)
3. Develop questions and tentative hypotheses
4. Select research method
5. Collect data
6. Analyze data and form conclusions

These guidelines are pretty much self-explanatory, however lets dissect number four.

The research methods usually used by sociologists include but are not limited to

Surveys
Ethnographic research
In-depth Interviews
Social experiments
Historical Research


Surveys

Surveys are used to see how a representative sample ( which is the portion of a population that have the characteristics of the entire population) feels about a certain issue. They are also used to detect patterns that may occur in the views of the sample

Ethnographic Research (Participant Observation)

This type of research involves forming an intimate connection with your subject that goes beyond statistical data. It is qualitative data on a specific event. In this type of research it is important not to forget the larger social factors that are acting on your subject.

In-depth Interviews

This type of research involves asking detailed questions on a subject to understand their bias/opinions/attitudes on a particular topic of interest. This is also one of the best methods to understand why your subjects think in a certain way (i.e. rationale)

Social Experiments

This involves fabricating an artificial situation in order to collect data on people's reactions to certain events.

Historical Research

This type of research refers to scanning through historical documents in order to identify societal patterns. You should critically analyze the social context (which is the society's influence on individuals) in which your topic takes place. This will allow you to accurately use your sociological imagination/perspective (which basically means personal problems are actually social ones) when making conclusion.

Be aware that ethnographic research, interviews, and social experiments, are susceptible to the Hawthorne effect, which means data can be skewed due to the presence of the researcher. Meaning subjects usually act in a disparate way when a researcher is present and/or feel exploited/intimidated by the researcher's presence.

Need clarification ? ask
Disquisition
Posts: 391
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9/5/2013 10:48:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/5/2013 9:03:33 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/30/2013 4:03:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Remove the word "science" and you are completely correct.

Science: Math, Biology, Chemistry, Physics

Not Science: Psychology, Economics, Sociology, Anthropology, etc...

Math is not a science in ANY, ANY, ANY capacity. Yes, it's STEM, but not science.

Anyway, why is it so significant that the social studies are not sciences? Does that make them less worthy as fields of study?

No, LordKnuckle stated in another thread that he doesn't think they are less worthy, just that he wanted to make the distinction.

And I was just telling him that the distinction is intuitive due to the adjective "Social" in front of Social Sciences.
Disquisition
Posts: 391
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9/6/2013 12:21:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/5/2013 9:19:33 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 9/5/2013 9:03:33 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/30/2013 4:03:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Remove the word "science" and you are completely correct.

Science: Math, Biology, Chemistry, Physics

Not Science: Psychology, Economics, Sociology, Anthropology, etc...

Math is not a science in ANY, ANY, ANY capacity. Yes, it's STEM, but not science.

Anyway, why is it so significant that the social studies are not sciences? Does that make them less worthy as fields of study?

I still don't get why social sciences aren't considered sciences in LK's mind.

He apparently and might I add mistakenly thinks that for something to be called science it must follow a rigid (step by step) scientific method. Which is partially true but it shouldn't constitute what is and isn't science. He's minimalizing board terms.
Lordknukle
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9/6/2013 9:15:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/5/2013 9:03:33 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/30/2013 4:03:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Remove the word "science" and you are completely correct.

Science: Math, Biology, Chemistry, Physics

Not Science: Psychology, Economics, Sociology, Anthropology, etc...

Math is not a science in ANY, ANY, ANY capacity. Yes, it's STEM, but not science.

Anyway, why is it so significant that the social studies are not sciences? Does that make them less worthy as fields of study?

Mathematics is the epitome of the scientific method- experiments that can be replicated and procure the exact same results 100% of the time.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Disquisition
Posts: 391
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9/6/2013 11:41:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/6/2013 12:58:51 AM, sdavio wrote:
Could you recommend any Sociology books?

In my class we are using a book called The Sociology Project, but it's a custom edition for my university.

The book is here if you want to read it.

http://www.pearsonhighered.com...
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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9/6/2013 3:35:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Sociology is one of the most useless fields of study. That "process" you listed has the rigor of a fourth-grader's science project.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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9/6/2013 8:25:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/6/2013 9:15:24 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 9/5/2013 9:03:33 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/30/2013 4:03:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Remove the word "science" and you are completely correct.

Science: Math, Biology, Chemistry, Physics

Not Science: Psychology, Economics, Sociology, Anthropology, etc...

Math is not a science in ANY, ANY, ANY capacity. Yes, it's STEM, but not science.

Anyway, why is it so significant that the social studies are not sciences? Does that make them less worthy as fields of study?

Mathematics is the epitome of the scientific method- experiments that can be replicated and procure the exact same results 100% of the time.

Mathematics is not a field of discovery. There is no fvcking experimentation in mathematics.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
000ike
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9/6/2013 8:31:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/6/2013 3:35:43 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Sociology is one of the most useless fields of study. That "process" you listed has the rigor of a fourth-grader's science project.

Your Richard Feynman sig is awesome. Feynman's such a bad@ss.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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9/6/2013 9:13:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/6/2013 8:25:22 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/6/2013 9:15:24 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 9/5/2013 9:03:33 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/30/2013 4:03:27 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Remove the word "science" and you are completely correct.

Science: Math, Biology, Chemistry, Physics

Not Science: Psychology, Economics, Sociology, Anthropology, etc...

Math is not a science in ANY, ANY, ANY capacity. Yes, it's STEM, but not science.

Anyway, why is it so significant that the social studies are not sciences? Does that make them less worthy as fields of study?

Mathematics is the epitome of the scientific method- experiments that can be replicated and procure the exact same results 100% of the time.

Mathematics is not a field of discovery. There is no fvcking experimentation in mathematics.

Err... Fermat's Last Theorem? Number Theory?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Disquisition
Posts: 391
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9/6/2013 11:48:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/6/2013 3:35:43 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Sociology is one of the most useless fields of study. That "process" you listed has the rigor of a fourth-grader's science project.

Interesting, define to what extent you think it's "useless" that's pretty close-minded.
bossyburrito
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9/7/2013 1:05:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/6/2013 11:48:24 PM, Disquisition wrote:
At 9/6/2013 3:35:43 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Sociology is one of the most useless fields of study. That "process" you listed has the rigor of a fourth-grader's science project.

Interesting, define to what extent you think it's "useless" that's pretty close-minded.

To the extent that it's filled with baseless speculation. It doesn't matter if it sometimes says something that is true in a large amount of cases - without reasons for why this is the case, you might as well say that it's the work of the animal gods.
Also, http://aynrandlexicon.com...
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush