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Empty Vessels

kelly224
Posts: 952
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12/23/2009 12:31:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I am reading Joe Gibbs' book "Game Plan". In it there is a passage in which he says that he was at the height of his career, yet could not justify his material success. He stated that what we praise in Western cultures as having "made it", is in fact an empty conceit. Folks claim to be happy when in fact they are just lying to themselves.

There is nothing wrong with wanting wealth, and "things", but most people think that what they see equates for the inward parts of a persons character. More so in the US, we are the the most powerful nation in the world, yet spiritually bankrupt.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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12/23/2009 12:41:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/23/2009 12:31:07 PM, kelly224 wrote:
I am reading Joe Gibbs' book "Game Plan". In it there is a passage in which he says that he was at the height of his career, yet could not justify his material success. He stated that what we praise in Western cultures as having "made it", is in fact an empty conceit. Folks claim to be happy when in fact they are just lying to themselves.

There is nothing wrong with wanting wealth, and "things", but most people think that what they see equates for the inward parts of a persons character. More so in the US, we are the the most powerful nation in the world, yet spiritually bankrupt.

hmmm...

I don't know too many people who worship wealth, but a lot of people who just want to make enough money to comfortably support their family.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
kelly224
Posts: 952
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12/23/2009 12:44:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/23/2009 12:41:27 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 12/23/2009 12:31:07 PM, kelly224 wrote:
I am reading Joe Gibbs' book "Game Plan". In it there is a passage in which he says that he was at the height of his career, yet could not justify his material success. He stated that what we praise in Western cultures as having "made it", is in fact an empty conceit. Folks claim to be happy when in fact they are just lying to themselves.

There is nothing wrong with wanting wealth, and "things", but most people think that what they see equates for the inward parts of a persons character. More so in the US, we are the the most powerful nation in the world, yet spiritually bankrupt.

hmmm...

I don't know too many people who worship wealth, but a lot of people who just want to make enough money to comfortably support their family.

You probably won't know them,because they don't want to be seen. 3% controls the 97%
johngriswald
Posts: 1,294
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12/23/2009 12:45:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/23/2009 12:44:21 PM, kelly224 wrote:
You probably won't know them,because they don't want to be seen. 3% controls the 97%

I see doctors, lawyers, and small business owners all the time.
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mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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12/23/2009 12:46:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/23/2009 12:44:21 PM, kelly224 wrote:

You probably won't know them,because they don't want to be seen. 3% controls the 97%

Then why are you talking about people generally as being empty, why not just a very small # of people?

I, and most people I know, value lots of things other than money.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
kelly224
Posts: 952
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12/23/2009 12:50:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/23/2009 12:46:05 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 12/23/2009 12:44:21 PM, kelly224 wrote:

You probably won't know them,because they don't want to be seen. 3% controls the 97%

Then why are you talking about people generally as being empty, why not just a very small # of people?

I, and most people I know, value lots of things other than money.

Because most people, well at least hear in DC it seems as though people are zombies.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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12/23/2009 3:24:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/23/2009 12:31:07 PM, kelly224 wrote:
I am reading Joe Gibbs' book "Game Plan". In it there is a passage in which he says that he was at the height of his career, yet could not justify his material success. He stated that what we praise in Western cultures as having "made it", is in fact an empty conceit. Folks claim to be happy when in fact they are just lying to themselves.

There is nothing wrong with wanting wealth, and "things", but most people think that what they see equates for the inward parts of a persons character. More so in the US, we are the the most powerful nation in the world, yet spiritually bankrupt.

Of course, it's called materialism, and if we didn't have it we would be:

1) Not human
2) Not have a free market.

One of the main concepts of a market is supply and demand. Without demand (i.e. Material), there would be no need for supplies. Ergo, the nations would be poorer.

So this "spiritual bankruptcy" is probably better overall.

And 97% aren't under the control of 3%. See: Strike
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
kelly224
Posts: 952
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12/23/2009 3:43:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/23/2009 3:24:51 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 12/23/2009 12:31:07 PM, kelly224 wrote:
I am reading Joe Gibbs' book "Game Plan". In it there is a passage in which he says that he was at the height of his career, yet could not justify his material success. He stated that what we praise in Western cultures as having "made it", is in fact an empty conceit. Folks claim to be happy when in fact they are just lying to themselves.

There is nothing wrong with wanting wealth, and "things", but most people think that what they see equates for the inward parts of a persons character. More so in the US, we are the the most powerful nation in the world, yet spiritually bankrupt.

Of course, it's called materialism, and if we didn't have it we would be:

1) Not human
2) Not have a free market.

Being human has absolutely nothing to do with being materialistic, the free market comment is right though. Capitalism creates materialism. I think money has a say in the matter. Money was invented, it isnt natural.

One of the main concepts of a market is supply and demand. Without demand (i.e. Material), there would be no need for supplies. Ergo, the nations would be poorer.

So this "spiritual bankruptcy" is probably better overall.
In your opinion being bankrupt inside prevails. This is why so many people are drug addicts, and attention wh0res who have no shame.

And 97% aren't under the control of 3%. See: Strike

what is your percentage than?
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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12/23/2009 3:52:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/23/2009 3:43:16 PM, kelly224 wrote:
At 12/23/2009 3:24:51 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 12/23/2009 12:31:07 PM, kelly224 wrote:
I am reading Joe Gibbs' book "Game Plan". In it there is a passage in which he says that he was at the height of his career, yet could not justify his material success. He stated that what we praise in Western cultures as having "made it", is in fact an empty conceit. Folks claim to be happy when in fact they are just lying to themselves.

There is nothing wrong with wanting wealth, and "things", but most people think that what they see equates for the inward parts of a persons character. More so in the US, we are the the most powerful nation in the world, yet spiritually bankrupt.

Of course, it's called materialism, and if we didn't have it we would be:

1) Not human
2) Not have a free market.

Being human has absolutely nothing to do with being materialistic, the free market comment is right though. Capitalism creates materialism. I think money has a say in the matter. Money was invented, it isnt natural.

1) Materialism is part of human nature. We always want better things. Why do squirrels not set up shops in trees? Because squirrels don't function in the same manner.

2) Capitalism grows out of materialism. As the human population expanded as a result of discovering agriculture, people settled with a constant supply of food. The near effective anarchy was replaced by modern society we now have. People demanded better food for less. Our materialism created the free market.


One of the main concepts of a market is supply and demand. Without demand (i.e. Material), there would be no need for supplies. Ergo, the nations would be poorer.

So this "spiritual bankruptcy" is probably better overall.
In your opinion being bankrupt inside prevails. This is why so many people are drug addicts, and attention wh0res who have no shame.

Of course it prevails. Otherwise modern society as we know it wouldn't exist. To quote Ragnar "Greed is the reason for the equipment you're using to communicate " (Or something like that)

People who eat fast food everyday are drug addicts.


And 97% aren't under the control of 3%. See: Strike

what is your percentage than?

I have no clue. All I know is a certain percent doesn't completley control another percent.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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12/23/2009 4:01:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Hm, kelly, you need to ask yourself: what exactly is so bad about materialism?

People want things. If they can get them, they'll try, which is why the free market works so well - there is always a need for things. Consumption is forever.

But, what do you think people attribute this to, in the long run? People attribute their success and their wealth to themselves, yes, but only those with the most inept standards stop there. Most attribute it to, among other things, God, luck, humanity, society, etc. Hell, even if they do attribute it to themselves, what is so wrong with that? It is a reinforcement in the belief of their power, of their life, of their worth.

So, it is a little silly to say people are "spiritually bankrupt," when people are far from it. Having an abundance of material things simply reinforces their beliefs in some form of power that propels them forward to continue living. That's pretty spiritual to me.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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12/23/2009 4:39:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/23/2009 12:31:07 PM, kelly224 wrote:
There is nothing wrong with wanting wealth, and "things", but most people think that what they see equates for the inward parts of a persons character. More so in the US, we are the the most powerful nation in the world, yet spiritually bankrupt.

I fail to see where you are going with this. It's one thing to talk about an excessively material culture, but where does spirituality come into play? What is the importance of spirituality compared to material possessions?

At 12/23/2009 3:43:16 PM, kelly224 wrote:
Being human has absolutely nothing to do with being materialistic, the free market comment is right though.

Being human has everything to do with being materialistic. We are, by our very biology, inclined towards manipulating our environment for our needs. This necessarily includes taking and claiming in an endless cycle.

Capitalism creates materialism. I think money has a say in the matter. Money was invented, it isnt natural.

Money is the measure of human work. All cultures and societies will tend towards some physical representation of how much we contribute to society, how much we have, how much we own. It is practically natural.

In your opinion being bankrupt inside prevails. This is why so many people are drug addicts, and attention wh0res who have no shame.

I have absolutely no idea what your point is. You're saying that capitalism or materialism is somehow connected to a chemical dependence or obsession with fame?
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