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The Case Against Female Self Esteem

Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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10/9/2013 7:59:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I thought this was an interesting point of view. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it is still well-argued.

Intro: "From the moment they"re old enough to speak, girls in America are bombarded with propaganda that artificially boosts their self-esteem. They"re told that they"re shpecial and you-nique because they have an extra X chromosome. They"re told that they"re smart, that they can do anything, that they deserve respect merely for existing. They"re encouraged to derive self-worth not from their inherent feminine nature but from their college degree, their job or the other illusory trappings of achievement in a man"s world.

Combine this with the white-knighting tendencies of fathers and the sexual attention that attractive girls already get from puberty forward and you have a complete social meltdown in the making."


http://mattforney.com...
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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10/9/2013 8:25:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/9/2013 8:08:10 AM, darkkermit wrote:
Fvck Matt Forney, he's the biggest whit knighter of them all.

K, I found his site looking for hitchhiking advice. I plan on backpacking throughout Europe next summer. Best sites I've found are couchsurfing and thesavvybackpacker.
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Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
darkkermit
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10/9/2013 8:30:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/9/2013 8:25:21 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/9/2013 8:08:10 AM, darkkermit wrote:
Fvck Matt Forney, he's the biggest whit knighter of them all.

K, I found his site looking for hitchhiking advice. I plan on backpacking throughout Europe next summer. Best sites I've found are couchsurfing and thesavvybackpacker.

That's interesting. I actually knew the person through facebook. I obviously don't like him. I'd figure you found him through connections through the libertarian world.
Open borders debate:
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Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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10/9/2013 8:50:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"Insecurity is the natural state of woman. How could it be anything else? Given their lack of physical strength, a woman on her own should be frightened as hell without men to protect her."

Oh really? This is the world we want to live in? Fvck that sh!t.

I read through this to make sure I wasn't missing some subtlety, irony or satire. The article is devoid of all three.

This guy strikes me as a misogynist with a lot of anger issues against women and modern society.
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Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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10/9/2013 8:52:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/9/2013 8:30:07 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 10/9/2013 8:25:21 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 10/9/2013 8:08:10 AM, darkkermit wrote:
Fvck Matt Forney, he's the biggest whit knighter of them all.

K, I found his site looking for hitchhiking advice. I plan on backpacking throughout Europe next summer. Best sites I've found are couchsurfing and thesavvybackpacker.

That's interesting. I actually knew the person through facebook. I obviously don't like him. I'd figure you found him through connections through the libertarian world.

I can see why.
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Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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10/9/2013 8:57:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
All I see was the title of the thread and the fact that WSA posted it. How very surprised I was to see the contents.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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10/9/2013 10:41:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I hope, for his sake more than anything, that he's trying to massively troll the internet.

Poor him though, I wonder what induced him to take such a hostile view of women. I feel like doing an AnDoctoir and try to psychoanalyse the sh!t out of him.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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10/9/2013 11:22:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/9/2013 7:59:27 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
I thought this was an interesting point of view. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it is still well-argued.

Hm. Really?

Intro: "From the moment they"re old enough to speak, girls in America are bombarded with propaganda that artificially boosts their self-esteem.

Bwa? What's so special about being able to talk that makes people receptive vs. not-receptive to "propaganda." Children are well capable of understanding and comprehending the world around them prior to the development of speech. Indeed, one of the many factors of the "terrible twos" is the inability to communicate. They can see, hear, and process, but they can't express, resulting in frustration and tantrums.

They"re told that they"re shpecial and you-nique because they have an extra X chromosome.

I don't get the "shpecial" and "you-nique" phrasing. Is this supposed to enhance this "well-argued" point? While I'm not against hyperbole, exaggeration, or slang, I think it should still have a point, and, if this did, I've missed it.

Regarding the underlying point of the claim, I suspect confirmation bias. I haven't seen anything overtly and subtle notions of this kind don't seem gender specific to me.

They"re told that they"re smart, that they can do anything, that they deserve respect merely for existing.

And what the fvck is wrong with that? (Also, don't see this as being gender specific).

They"re encouraged to derive self-worth not from their inherent feminine nature but from their college degree, their job or the other illusory trappings of achievement in a man"s world.

...
Toddlers are told to derive self-worth from their jobs?

Combine this with the white-knighting tendencies of fathers and the sexual attention that attractive girls already get from puberty forward and you have a complete social meltdown in the making."

http://mattforney.com...

Meh. I'm not sure what the well-argued part is here, unless it's hidden in the article or the argument is that this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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10/9/2013 12:57:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"It"s an attribute that is at best superfluous and at worst prevents women from fulfilling their natural biological and social functions."

Stopped reading there. What the hell.
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Beverlee
Posts: 721
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10/9/2013 2:48:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
There really is no reason to interact with ideas like this except as a way to exercise our logic-muscles. This kind of thinking has no credibility in America - but it is rampant in other areas of the world, so we should remind ourselves how to argue against it... in case we ever have the opportunity to influence those places.

But this guy is not making a good argument in the opening paragraph.

He needs to show that a lot of steps between his observations and his conclusion. He says that allowing female self-esteem could lead to a societal meltdown... but never explains why. Is it because men would lose their authority? Or because women would be incompetent? Is he saying that men have prevented societal meltdowns in the past?

And all of his conclusions are just weird. Like saying that women are less physically strong than men, and so should be considered inferior. Cows are female, and stronger than human men. So are cows superior to men? Strength is only one facet of humanity - personal credibility is also important.

And credibility is something that this guy does not have.
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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11/10/2013 4:32:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I've been taking a bit of a necessary break from debating, but I just emailed him challenging him to a debate. I'm awaiting a response.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

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Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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11/10/2013 4:52:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Although a lot of his specific examples are either illogical or hyperbolic, I think that he hits the mark as a general statement.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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11/10/2013 6:05:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/10/2013 4:52:25 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Although a lot of his specific examples are either illogical or hyperbolic, I think that he hits the mark as a general statement.

Calm down, adults are speaking.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Lordknukle
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11/10/2013 6:39:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/10/2013 6:05:58 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 11/10/2013 4:52:25 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Although a lot of his specific examples are either illogical or hyperbolic, I think that he hits the mark as a general statement.

Calm down, adults are speaking.

That's cute.

http://cdn.cutestpaw.com...
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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11/10/2013 6:45:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/9/2013 10:41:48 AM, Cermank wrote:
I hope, for his sake more than anything, that he's trying to massively troll the internet.

Poor him though, I wonder what induced him to take such a hostile view of women. I feel like doing an AnDoctoir and try to psychoanalyse the sh!t out of him.

I own.
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
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11/10/2013 7:35:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
What's with the spelling errors?

It generally seems like a sound statement as there isn't anything that jumps out as a red flag (minus his spelling), but none of it seems really true either, so I wouldn't be surprised if it could be torn to shreds by a few statistics.
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

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Beverlee
Posts: 721
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11/11/2013 5:25:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/10/2013 6:47:29 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Just noticed that they deleted my suicide pact thread. That's messed up, dudes.

This made me laugh Dr Pepper thru my nose y accident. Not cool, dude. You need to work on that.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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11/11/2013 6:23:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/11/2013 5:25:38 PM, Beverlee wrote:
At 11/10/2013 6:47:29 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Just noticed that they deleted my suicide pact thread. That's messed up, dudes.

This made me laugh Dr Pepper thru my nose y accident. Not cool, dude. You need to work on that.

My bad.
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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11/11/2013 7:02:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Update: He has not yet responded. Still waiting to politely tear him a new one.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder