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Sex, Rape Culture and Moral Rot

ConservativePolitico
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11/5/2013 2:04:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I realize this is going to come off as very Kantian in nature. I did not copy Kant completely but came to these things on my own volition and then realized that I had subconsciously drew on them from Kant.

There is a culture of rape in America. It is on our college campuses, in our military, on our televisions, in the projects, in affluent neighborhoods. It is disgusting. For a country that prides itself on it's morality and dares to call itself the City on the Hill we have allowed our moral center to rot. And rot it has. 1 in 6 American women have either been raped or been the subject of an attempted rape. 1 in 6. Deplorable. How has this come to pass?

When someone commits rape they have brought it upon themselves to take away a person's autonomy, sanctity of body, sense of wholeness and replace these things with fear, pain and revulsion. They decide to use a person as an object in order to gain power or physical pleasure. Physical pleasure. They would defile a human being, distilling in them a lasting scar in order to gain something as simple as pleasure. Or worse, to fulfill in their sad twisted minds a sense of power which they clearly do not possess. Who could do such a thing if not a monster? And in a culture where 1 in 6 women are confronted by monsters it begets the question: how has our society become one that spawns monsters?

The easiest answer is the banishment of God from society. We have evolved from a culture where God was raised on a pedestal, found in every home, in every child and in every public place to one where God is delegated to the corner. A new culture where kids who pray at school are ridiculed, atheists are mistaken for scientists and where we are told that religion should be a private thing as to not offend others. Whether you believe in God or not no one can deny the powerful moral fiber that religion instills in people. But in this day and age scholars, god-haters and atheists have distorted this truth and have told us that religion is not moral but in fact the exact opposite. This is a lie.

If man is left to his own devices with no higher power to answer to then what guides his actions? Nature. Instinct. The will of the flesh. These things become man's master. In a world where men have only to answer to other men who are answering to no one but themselves and their fallible peers it is no wonder that such moral rot has been occurring and occurring at an astounding rate. You do not have to be religious to be moral but the fear of God keeps you straight. If you are faced with the strong urges of the flesh with no one to answer to but maybe, maybe, the law and nothing else you will be much more liable to act upon those urges. For in a world without God your instincts and desires are your greatest master and you will do everything in your power to please them. It is no wonder then, that there are people who will violate others in order to please their flesh. No one else matters. Religion kept men honest by asking them to hold themselves to something higher than mankind. We were forced to evaluate ourselves against something that we knew we could not obtain but only hope to strive for. This standard and fear of failure kept morality strong in society. But we have destroyed that. We have prided ourselves in declaring that we are our own masters and are beholden to nothing higher.

We thrive on this. Sexual culture has exploded in America. Even the devout crave visual stimulation from the populace. It is touted on TV. In school. In the home. In the workplace. The attractive are doted on. People are measured in worth by sexual exploits. People are asked "have you slept with them yet?" and if the answer is no you are immediately judged asked why not as if there must be some extraordinary reason that you have not willed your body upon another yet. If a girl does not put out then they are deemed unworthy to associate with by certain groups or are shunned and called "prude" as though such a thing is an insult. And as this culture grows and expands and taints society words such as "conservative" and "prude" have indeed started to sting those foolish enough to give into it. This again goes back to the thought that people are not people, they are not vessels of the soul, they do not house a consciousness but are rather simply an object for your pleasure. Whether that is a sexual conquest or even looking at someone's body in a lustful way, both of these things use someone not as a person but as an object. Whenever someone treats another in this way they are stripping that person of their humanity, even if for a brief moment. When you are subject to this in society over and over and over again, the sexual indoctrination in a visual driven society and you are forced to repeatedly use people as objects and not as humans it is no wonder that rape is such a problem in America.

Many fail to see why sex, as taught in the Bible and other religious texts, is something to be left for marriage. The people in society who do not see God or have decided that they are no better than the beasts of the land to be ruled by their flesh and flesh alone, believe that sex is a simple act that can be partaken at any time with anyone they so desire. However, in partaking in sex one is fusing their body with another and deriving pleasure from it. If you are not bonded with the other person, either through love or marriage, then you are merely deriving pleasure from their body which is immoral, no matter what the pretext is. Even if it is consensual. This is a view long lost and eager to be forgotten by those who wish to have guilt free sex. That is why marriage is taught as something to be had before sex. Then you can be assured that sex is moral because you are already bonded to that person and therefore can partake in sex without it being immoral. If two people truly love each other and decide to give their bodies to each other then it is possible for them to have moral sex as well. People who enter such a heavy act with only the intention of having fun or getting off are violating things they do not understand or do not wish to understand and darken themselves and their partner. Marriage and sex go together because there is a moral reason for them to. It is not some ancient outdated belief that many believe it to be. Sex is a sacred practice that, when practiced correctly, is beautiful and unique to man.

That is why rape is so monstrous.

Rapists are in the same vein as murderers as they seek to strip people of something they have no right to. In the end there are only a few things people can claim true mastery over: their bodies, their minds and their actions. Rape subjugates one's body against their will, leaves a lasting imprint upon their minds all whilst preventing them from acting in a way they wish to. It violates all three of the things people have mastery over which is why the act is so heinous. It is also why rape leaves such a strong impression with the victims. It is why rapists are monsters.

What person could bring themselves to knowingly strip someone of these things in the name of their own pleasure? What monster could imprint such horror upon an innocent in order to gain a brief moment of enjoyment? Rapists have stripped themselves of their humanity in doing so. A person who can no longer see people as people should not be considered people themselves. People have rights and when you decide that you can take these rights from others you no longer deserve the rights afforded to people. When you decide to strip another of these rights you have, in your mind, raised yourself to be higher than others who are your equal thus betraying a perversion of thought that expels you from society.
ConservativePolitico
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11/5/2013 2:05:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
CONTINUED

The worst part is that many victims of such heinous actions actually blame themselves. They feel they did not do enough to prevent the action or that they somehow caused such misfortune to come to them. Such a feeling is a horrible burden to bear atop the other scars they bear. No one is to blame for the actions besides the monsters. Every person has a choice to make in every situation. No matter how easy or inviting a situation has been made by other (perhaps clumsy) actions an evil choice was still made to objectify the victim and violate them. No one is at fault besides the person who took such action upon themselves.

Yes, there is a culture of rape in America. It is disgusting. But unsurprising. We have sucked God completely out of society and let men govern themselves as they see fit. We relish in sexual exploits when we should not. We feed upon visual stimuli and use people as objects as easy as we breathe. And we wonder why the minds of our society are warped in ways that allow them to strip people of their dignity in the name of their own pleasure. Something needs to be done.
bladerunner060
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11/5/2013 2:17:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
You do realize that criminality and other bad behavior generally correlates with more religion? Atheists are less likely to be in prison by a wide margin, and violent crimes are more prevalent in more religious areas--both in terms of countries and in terms of states.

Taking God out is not why there's a culture of rape and, in fact, the Bible certainly doesn't speak against it as much as you seem to think.
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ConservativePolitico
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11/5/2013 2:29:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 2:17:27 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
You do realize that criminality and other bad behavior generally correlates with more religion? Atheists are less likely to be in prison by a wide margin, and violent crimes are more prevalent in more religious areas--both in terms of countries and in terms of states.

Taking God out is not why there's a culture of rape and, in fact, the Bible certainly doesn't speak against it as much as you seem to think.

I said it was a contributing factor. Which I believe it is.

No one is perfect and obviously there will be more religious people in prison because there are more of them.

As for other states I'm talking about America and America only.
bladerunner060
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11/5/2013 2:36:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 2:29:04 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 11/5/2013 2:17:27 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
You do realize that criminality and other bad behavior generally correlates with more religion? Atheists are less likely to be in prison by a wide margin, and violent crimes are more prevalent in more religious areas--both in terms of countries and in terms of states.

Taking God out is not why there's a culture of rape and, in fact, the Bible certainly doesn't speak against it as much as you seem to think.

I said it was a contributing factor. Which I believe it is.

Yes, but you believe this in spite of the evidence to the contrary.

No one is perfect and obviously there will be more religious people in prison because there are more of them.

No--we're talking statistical relationship. In theory there should be a representation of atheists in prison at about the same as the equivalent outside population--there is not. Rather instead, <0.02% of the prison population is atheist.

As for other states I'm talking about America and America only.

You are making a global claim, though, and you are doing it in spite of the evidence--and by "states" I was referencing the states of the US.

Religion correlates to worse behavior. I'm not going to go as far as you, and claim it's causative, but I am going to say that your claims, and your analysis, is unfounded.

Remember that you believe in a book that encouraged rape, in some circumstances, and in others punished rape victims for not crying out during their rape. The bible cannot be pointed to as a source of sound moral principles (even if we limit it to the subject of rape for this discussion), and believing in God correlates to bad behavior. Thus, when you claim that rape culture is, in part, caused by a lack of God, and I can point to the fact that the opposite correlates, I can call shenanigans.
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drafterman
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11/5/2013 2:45:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
And in a culture where 1 in 6 women are confronted by monsters it begets the question: how has our society become one that spawns monsters?

The easiest answer is the banishment of God from society.

Uhm. What?

First, God hasn't been banished from society.
Second, all you have to do is look at actual theocratic societies (such as those in the Middle East) to see how that God-fearing culture feels about rape.

We have evolved from a culture where God was raised on a pedestal, found in every home, in every child and in every public place to one where God is delegated to the corner. A new culture where kids who pray at school are ridiculed, atheists are mistaken for scientists and where we are told that religion should be a private thing as to not offend others.

Religion should be a private thing not because it offends others, but because, historically, when it is not kept private, you religious folks GO INSANE.

Whether you believe in God or not no one can deny the powerful moral fiber that religion instills in people. But in this day and age scholars, god-haters and atheists have distorted this truth and have told us that religion is not moral but in fact the exact opposite. This is a lie.

At most you can accuse us of being wrong. That doesn't make it a lie.

If man is left to his own devices with no higher power to answer to then what guides his actions? Nature. Instinct. The will of the flesh. These things become man's master. In a world where men have only to answer to other men who are answering to no one but themselves and their fallible peers it is no wonder that such moral rot has been occurring and occurring at an astounding rate. You do not have to be religious to be moral but the fear of God keeps you straight.

No it doesn't. The only thing that keeps people in line is other people.

If you are faced with the strong urges of the flesh with no one to answer to but maybe, maybe, the law and nothing else you will be much more liable to act upon those urges. For in a world without God your instincts and desires are your greatest master and you will do everything in your power to please them. It is no wonder then, that there are people who will violate others in order to please their flesh. No one else matters. Religion kept men honest by asking them to hold themselves to something higher than mankind. We were forced to evaluate ourselves against something that we knew we could not obtain but only hope to strive for. This standard and fear of failure kept morality strong in society. But we have destroyed that. We have prided ourselves in declaring that we are our own masters and are beholden to nothing higher.

You know what, I'm not reading the rest of this garbage. It is complete and utter claptrap.

This is God, regarding rape:
http://www.evilbible.com...

Chew on that. It is the secularization of society that has allowed women to be thought of as actual people with rights equal to everyone else and not property. Less religion has done that.

It is the secularization of society that has allowed us to recognize that sex is not some mystical act with supernatural powers and consequences and that it is nothing to kill over, contrary to your religion.

It is the secularization of society that allows us to hold each other accountable for our actions for the betterment of society rather than trying to hold people accountable to the word of some bearded sky fairy which no one can agree about.

The idea that the only thing keeping you frame raping a person is that some toddler with superpowers going to punish you is disgusting. It's pathetic. That's obedience, not morality. It is ironic that you invoke Kant, when Kantian ethics say that morality is acting moral for the sake of morality, not because you are rewarded or threatened with punishment.

All of this is pseudo-philosophical rubbish. Rape is actually on a decline since the 90's. The idea that atheists are inherently lawless completely glosses over the bloody history of the religious, who use their religious as justification for their heinous actions.
drafterman
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11/5/2013 2:49:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
A consequence of this baseless view is that there should be no rape where God is held highest. So we shouldn't see any incidences of rape in, say, convents. RIGHT?
ConservativePolitico
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11/5/2013 2:51:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 2:45:18 PM, drafterman wrote:
And in a culture where 1 in 6 women are confronted by monsters it begets the question: how has our society become one that spawns monsters?

The easiest answer is the banishment of God from society.

Uhm. What?

First, God hasn't been banished from society.
Second, all you have to do is look at actual theocratic societies (such as those in the Middle East) to see how that God-fearing culture feels about rape.

We have evolved from a culture where God was raised on a pedestal, found in every home, in every child and in every public place to one where God is delegated to the corner. A new culture where kids who pray at school are ridiculed, atheists are mistaken for scientists and where we are told that religion should be a private thing as to not offend others.

Religion should be a private thing not because it offends others, but because, historically, when it is not kept private, you religious folks GO INSANE.

Whether you believe in God or not no one can deny the powerful moral fiber that religion instills in people. But in this day and age scholars, god-haters and atheists have distorted this truth and have told us that religion is not moral but in fact the exact opposite. This is a lie.

At most you can accuse us of being wrong. That doesn't make it a lie.

If man is left to his own devices with no higher power to answer to then what guides his actions? Nature. Instinct. The will of the flesh. These things become man's master. In a world where men have only to answer to other men who are answering to no one but themselves and their fallible peers it is no wonder that such moral rot has been occurring and occurring at an astounding rate. You do not have to be religious to be moral but the fear of God keeps you straight.

No it doesn't. The only thing that keeps people in line is other people.

If you are faced with the strong urges of the flesh with no one to answer to but maybe, maybe, the law and nothing else you will be much more liable to act upon those urges. For in a world without God your instincts and desires are your greatest master and you will do everything in your power to please them. It is no wonder then, that there are people who will violate others in order to please their flesh. No one else matters. Religion kept men honest by asking them to hold themselves to something higher than mankind. We were forced to evaluate ourselves against something that we knew we could not obtain but only hope to strive for. This standard and fear of failure kept morality strong in society. But we have destroyed that. We have prided ourselves in declaring that we are our own masters and are beholden to nothing higher.

You know what, I'm not reading the rest of this garbage. It is complete and utter claptrap.

This is God, regarding rape:
http://www.evilbible.com...

Chew on that. It is the secularization of society that has allowed women to be thought of as actual people with rights equal to everyone else and not property. Less religion has done that.

It is the secularization of society that has allowed us to recognize that sex is not some mystical act with supernatural powers and consequences and that it is nothing to kill over, contrary to your religion.

It is the secularization of society that allows us to hold each other accountable for our actions for the betterment of society rather than trying to hold people accountable to the word of some bearded sky fairy which no one can agree about.

The idea that the only thing keeping you frame raping a person is that some toddler with superpowers going to punish you is disgusting. It's pathetic. That's obedience, not morality. It is ironic that you invoke Kant, when Kantian ethics say that morality is acting moral for the sake of morality, not because you are rewarded or threatened with punishment.

All of this is pseudo-philosophical rubbish. Rape is actually on a decline since the 90's. The idea that atheists are inherently lawless completely glosses over the bloody history of the religious, who use their religious as justification for their heinous actions.

I never said the only thing keeping you from raping someone is God. Good Lord. No. I am saying that religion, unperverted, helps keep people on a moral path. I have a strong stake in Kant, I understand Kant. I believe in objective morality. I also believe in the state of nature. In my mind religion helps those, I state that you don't have to be religious to be moral but apparently you didn't read that far.
ConservativePolitico
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11/5/2013 2:51:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 2:49:07 PM, drafterman wrote:
A consequence of this baseless view is that there should be no rape where God is held highest. So we shouldn't see any incidences of rape in, say, convents. RIGHT?

Wrong. People are still fallible and are in no way perfect.
ConservativePolitico
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11/5/2013 2:53:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
And for the record, I'm all for constructive criticism.

If you think I'm being stupid please tell me but try not to invoke anger in doing so. I'd appreciate it.
ConservativePolitico
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11/5/2013 3:02:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The area of conflict it seems is in our understanding of what I'm referring to as Christian morality.

I am writing this using my own viewpoint and beliefs which is that I find a higher moral calling to be comforting and strengthening. I try to follow it to my utmost (which isn't always that well). To me this absence would damage me and I feel it would be harder to deny my earthly desires.

I realize this isn't universally understood nor is it universally true.
bladerunner060
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11/5/2013 3:19:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 3:02:39 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
The area of conflict it seems is in our understanding of what I'm referring to as Christian morality.

I am writing this using my own viewpoint and beliefs which is that I find a higher moral calling to be comforting and strengthening. I try to follow it to my utmost (which isn't always that well). To me this absence would damage me and I feel it would be harder to deny my earthly desires.

I realize this isn't universally understood nor is it universally true.

I find this to be a step back from your original post, which was a series of assertions about OTHERS, not yourself.

Still, are you really saying that if you stopped believing in God you think you'd start raping people?
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ConservativePolitico
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11/5/2013 3:21:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 3:19:42 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 11/5/2013 3:02:39 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
The area of conflict it seems is in our understanding of what I'm referring to as Christian morality.

I am writing this using my own viewpoint and beliefs which is that I find a higher moral calling to be comforting and strengthening. I try to follow it to my utmost (which isn't always that well). To me this absence would damage me and I feel it would be harder to deny my earthly desires.

I realize this isn't universally understood nor is it universally true.

I find this to be a step back from your original post, which was a series of assertions about OTHERS, not yourself.

Still, are you really saying that if you stopped believing in God you think you'd start raping people?

I think if the urge was in me, as it is in some people but not all, that the lack of a strong moral center would make me more likely to give into the urge. Yes.
bladerunner060
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11/5/2013 3:26:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 3:21:48 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 11/5/2013 3:19:42 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 11/5/2013 3:02:39 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
The area of conflict it seems is in our understanding of what I'm referring to as Christian morality.

I am writing this using my own viewpoint and beliefs which is that I find a higher moral calling to be comforting and strengthening. I try to follow it to my utmost (which isn't always that well). To me this absence would damage me and I feel it would be harder to deny my earthly desires.

I realize this isn't universally understood nor is it universally true.

I find this to be a step back from your original post, which was a series of assertions about OTHERS, not yourself.

Still, are you really saying that if you stopped believing in God you think you'd start raping people?

I think if the urge was in me, as it is in some people but not all, that the lack of a strong moral center would make me more likely to give into the urge. Yes.

That's an awful lot of what seems, and I don't mean to be unkind, weasel words that doesn't directly answer the question except by qualifying it.

Belief in God is not the only source of a "strong moral center", and so your belief or lack does not neccessarily mean anything whatsoever in that regard and, indeed, the statistics would seem to indicate (but not enough to assert) that in those for whom the "urge [is] in", belief does not contribute to stopping them.
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ConservativePolitico
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11/5/2013 3:29:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 3:26:05 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 11/5/2013 3:21:48 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 11/5/2013 3:19:42 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 11/5/2013 3:02:39 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
The area of conflict it seems is in our understanding of what I'm referring to as Christian morality.

I am writing this using my own viewpoint and beliefs which is that I find a higher moral calling to be comforting and strengthening. I try to follow it to my utmost (which isn't always that well). To me this absence would damage me and I feel it would be harder to deny my earthly desires.

I realize this isn't universally understood nor is it universally true.

I find this to be a step back from your original post, which was a series of assertions about OTHERS, not yourself.

Still, are you really saying that if you stopped believing in God you think you'd start raping people?

I think if the urge was in me, as it is in some people but not all, that the lack of a strong moral center would make me more likely to give into the urge. Yes.

That's an awful lot of what seems, and I don't mean to be unkind, weasel words that doesn't directly answer the question except by qualifying it.

Belief in God is not the only source of a "strong moral center", and so your belief or lack does not neccessarily mean anything whatsoever in that regard and, indeed, the statistics would seem to indicate (but not enough to assert) that in those for whom the "urge [is] in", belief does not contribute to stopping them.

It is not the only source of moral center no. But in America, which I have framed this discussion, culture has grown out of a people who regarded God and religion as the strongest source of moral center but however that is changing. I believe that nothing has replaced this source of morality in American culture. We used to be a primarily religious people but now have turned away from that but now we have nothing guiding us but a self centered culture.
bladerunner060
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11/5/2013 3:35:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 3:29:52 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:

It is not the only source of moral center no. But in America, which I have framed this discussion, culture has grown out of a people who regarded God and religion as the strongest source of moral center but however that is changing.

And I say that's a good thing. Religion justified slavery, don't forget--society has gotten better as it has gotten less religious, including a rape rate which has been lowering for decades (but which, provided it's ever over "1", is still too high)

I believe that nothing has replaced this source of morality in American culture.

I believe you are mistaken--and I believe you cannot back up such an assertion with any evidence of a lack of morality--assuming, of course, you don't try to pile on things which I don't consider immoral at all (I don't know your stance, for instance, on homosexuality).

We used to be a primarily religious people but now have turned away from that but now we have nothing guiding us but a self centered culture.

Upon what do you base that? The lowering crime rate? The lowering (to return to your original point) rape rate? The outing of religious rapists who abused children and were protected by their churches? You may fee lit's nothing but a "self-centered culture", but I strongly disagree. Which is not to say that there aren't elements of a "self centered culture", but when you say there's "nothing" but that, I beg to differ--and the statistics back me up.
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ConservativePolitico
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11/5/2013 3:38:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 3:35:46 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 11/5/2013 3:29:52 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:

It is not the only source of moral center no. But in America, which I have framed this discussion, culture has grown out of a people who regarded God and religion as the strongest source of moral center but however that is changing.

And I say that's a good thing. Religion justified slavery, don't forget--society has gotten better as it has gotten less religious, including a rape rate which has been lowering for decades (but which, provided it's ever over "1", is still too high)

I believe that nothing has replaced this source of morality in American culture.

I believe you are mistaken--and I believe you cannot back up such an assertion with any evidence of a lack of morality--assuming, of course, you don't try to pile on things which I don't consider immoral at all (I don't know your stance, for instance, on homosexuality).

We used to be a primarily religious people but now have turned away from that but now we have nothing guiding us but a self centered culture.

Upon what do you base that? The lowering crime rate? The lowering (to return to your original point) rape rate? The outing of religious rapists who abused children and were protected by their churches? You may fee lit's nothing but a "self-centered culture", but I strongly disagree. Which is not to say that there aren't elements of a "self centered culture", but when you say there's "nothing" but that, I beg to differ--and the statistics back me up.

Okay, minus my paragraph on religion (which will always be derisive) - how's the rest of it? lol everyone always harps on the religious part and ignores the rest.
bladerunner060
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11/5/2013 3:45:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 3:38:34 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:

Okay, minus my paragraph on religion (which will always be derisive) - how's the rest of it? lol everyone always harps on the religious part and ignores the rest.

You actually have far more than a paragraph on religion. But stripping those parts out, I'm mostly left with "rape is bad" (very true), "sexualization in culture contributes to rape" (I don't think it's true--I think that's right up there with 'violent video games cause school shootings'), and "rapists should not be considered human" (mixed feelings have I, on considering anyone "not human" because of their actions).
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ConservativePolitico
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11/5/2013 3:48:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 3:45:12 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 11/5/2013 3:38:34 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:

Okay, minus my paragraph on religion (which will always be derisive) - how's the rest of it? lol everyone always harps on the religious part and ignores the rest.

You actually have far more than a paragraph on religion. But stripping those parts out, I'm mostly left with "rape is bad" (very true), "sexualization in culture contributes to rape" (I don't think it's true--I think that's right up there with 'violent video games cause school shootings'), and "rapists should not be considered human" (mixed feelings have I, on considering anyone "not human" because of their actions).

And ta-da we have just done something unheard of at DDO in recent times. I presented a case, a rough case, and asked for criticism. Which you gave to me in a civilized manner without contempt or anger. I appreciate that.

This is what makes this site so great because I now will sit down tonight and reponder this issue and grow in my understanding of my own thoughts and feelings.
wrichcirw
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11/5/2013 5:02:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 2:04:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I realize this is going to come off as very Kantian in nature. I did not copy Kant completely but came to these things on my own volition and then realized that I had subconsciously drew on them from Kant.

There is a culture of rape in America. It is on our college campuses, in our military, on our televisions, in the projects, in affluent neighborhoods. It is disgusting. For a country that prides itself on it's morality and dares to call itself the City on the Hill we have allowed our moral center to rot. And rot it has. 1 in 6 American women have either been raped or been the subject of an attempted rape. 1 in 6. Deplorable. How has this come to pass?

[etc]

Before 1993, marital rape was still legal somewhere in America. (http://www.times-standard.com...) Therefore, what is actually occurring is that more than likely, what used to be "legal rape" is now actually provoking outrage, whereas before, it was simply business-as-usual.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
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11/5/2013 5:19:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The level of ad hominem and appealing to the subjectivity of moral standards is so prolific. It almost comes off as misandry.
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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11/5/2013 9:16:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
A few (very brief) thoughts:

1) I agree with the broadstroke of the conclusion: there is a rape/violence culture.

2) I STRONGLY disagree with the implication that the idea of God or a god(s)/goddess(es) is somehow responsible.

3) Once again, I am dismayed at the complete ignoring of female-on-male sexual assault/rape.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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11/5/2013 9:31:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 2:04:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:

The easiest answer is the banishment of God from society. We have evolved from a culture where God was raised on a pedestal, found in every home, in every child and in every public place to one where God is delegated to the corner. A new culture where kids who pray at school are ridiculed, atheists are mistaken for scientists and where we are told that religion should be a private thing as to not offend others. Whether you believe in God or not no one can deny the powerful moral fiber that religion instills in people. But in this day and age scholars, god-haters and atheists have distorted this truth and have told us that religion is not moral but in fact the exact opposite. This is a lie.

I thought you were getting better ol boy. I mean, you threw off the whole alcohol prohibition thing but old habits die hard I suppose. Perhaps further exposure to other points of view will prove beneficial and hopefully the above paragraph will prove to be a one-time thing ;)
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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11/6/2013 7:43:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 9:31:40 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 11/5/2013 2:04:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:

The easiest answer is the banishment of God from society. We have evolved from a culture where God was raised on a pedestal, found in every home, in every child and in every public place to one where God is delegated to the corner. A new culture where kids who pray at school are ridiculed, atheists are mistaken for scientists and where we are told that religion should be a private thing as to not offend others. Whether you believe in God or not no one can deny the powerful moral fiber that religion instills in people. But in this day and age scholars, god-haters and atheists have distorted this truth and have told us that religion is not moral but in fact the exact opposite. This is a lie.

I thought you were getting better ol boy. I mean, you threw off the whole alcohol prohibition thing but old habits die hard I suppose. Perhaps further exposure to other points of view will prove beneficial and hopefully the above paragraph will prove to be a one-time thing ;)

Old habits do indeed die hard. I'm still quite religious. These are personal feelings of course.
Noumena
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11/6/2013 7:49:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/6/2013 7:43:51 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 11/5/2013 9:31:40 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 11/5/2013 2:04:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:

The easiest answer is the banishment of God from society. We have evolved from a culture where God was raised on a pedestal, found in every home, in every child and in every public place to one where God is delegated to the corner. A new culture where kids who pray at school are ridiculed, atheists are mistaken for scientists and where we are told that religion should be a private thing as to not offend others. Whether you believe in God or not no one can deny the powerful moral fiber that religion instills in people. But in this day and age scholars, god-haters and atheists have distorted this truth and have told us that religion is not moral but in fact the exact opposite. This is a lie.

I thought you were getting better ol boy. I mean, you threw off the whole alcohol prohibition thing but old habits die hard I suppose. Perhaps further exposure to other points of view will prove beneficial and hopefully the above paragraph will prove to be a one-time thing ;)

Old habits do indeed die hard. I'm still quite religious. These are personal feelings of course.

Personal feelings are still up for scrutiny (and perhaps even ridicule) tho rite?
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Noumena
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11/6/2013 7:50:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/6/2013 7:49:48 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 11/6/2013 7:43:51 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 11/5/2013 9:31:40 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 11/5/2013 2:04:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:

The easiest answer is the banishment of God from society. We have evolved from a culture where God was raised on a pedestal, found in every home, in every child and in every public place to one where God is delegated to the corner. A new culture where kids who pray at school are ridiculed, atheists are mistaken for scientists and where we are told that religion should be a private thing as to not offend others. Whether you believe in God or not no one can deny the powerful moral fiber that religion instills in people. But in this day and age scholars, god-haters and atheists have distorted this truth and have told us that religion is not moral but in fact the exact opposite. This is a lie.

I thought you were getting better ol boy. I mean, you threw off the whole alcohol prohibition thing but old habits die hard I suppose. Perhaps further exposure to other points of view will prove beneficial and hopefully the above paragraph will prove to be a one-time thing ;)

Old habits do indeed die hard. I'm still quite religious. These are personal feelings of course.

Personal feelings are still up for scrutiny (and perhaps even ridicule) tho rite?

I mean come on this is DDO.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
ConservativePolitico
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11/6/2013 7:51:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/6/2013 7:49:48 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 11/6/2013 7:43:51 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 11/5/2013 9:31:40 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 11/5/2013 2:04:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:

The easiest answer is the banishment of God from society. We have evolved from a culture where God was raised on a pedestal, found in every home, in every child and in every public place to one where God is delegated to the corner. A new culture where kids who pray at school are ridiculed, atheists are mistaken for scientists and where we are told that religion should be a private thing as to not offend others. Whether you believe in God or not no one can deny the powerful moral fiber that religion instills in people. But in this day and age scholars, god-haters and atheists have distorted this truth and have told us that religion is not moral but in fact the exact opposite. This is a lie.

I thought you were getting better ol boy. I mean, you threw off the whole alcohol prohibition thing but old habits die hard I suppose. Perhaps further exposure to other points of view will prove beneficial and hopefully the above paragraph will prove to be a one-time thing ;)

Old habits do indeed die hard. I'm still quite religious. These are personal feelings of course.

Personal feelings are still up for scrutiny (and perhaps even ridicule) tho rite?

Well of course. You think I posted this for pats on the back? lol
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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11/6/2013 12:16:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 2:51:10 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 11/5/2013 2:45:18 PM, drafterman wrote:
And in a culture where 1 in 6 women are confronted by monsters it begets the question: how has our society become one that spawns monsters?

The easiest answer is the banishment of God from society.

Uhm. What?

First, God hasn't been banished from society.
Second, all you have to do is look at actual theocratic societies (such as those in the Middle East) to see how that God-fearing culture feels about rape.

We have evolved from a culture where God was raised on a pedestal, found in every home, in every child and in every public place to one where God is delegated to the corner. A new culture where kids who pray at school are ridiculed, atheists are mistaken for scientists and where we are told that religion should be a private thing as to not offend others.

Religion should be a private thing not because it offends others, but because, historically, when it is not kept private, you religious folks GO INSANE.

Whether you believe in God or not no one can deny the powerful moral fiber that religion instills in people. But in this day and age scholars, god-haters and atheists have distorted this truth and have told us that religion is not moral but in fact the exact opposite. This is a lie.

At most you can accuse us of being wrong. That doesn't make it a lie.

If man is left to his own devices with no higher power to answer to then what guides his actions? Nature. Instinct. The will of the flesh. These things become man's master. In a world where men have only to answer to other men who are answering to no one but themselves and their fallible peers it is no wonder that such moral rot has been occurring and occurring at an astounding rate. You do not have to be religious to be moral but the fear of God keeps you straight.

No it doesn't. The only thing that keeps people in line is other people.

If you are faced with the strong urges of the flesh with no one to answer to but maybe, maybe, the law and nothing else you will be much more liable to act upon those urges. For in a world without God your instincts and desires are your greatest master and you will do everything in your power to please them. It is no wonder then, that there are people who will violate others in order to please their flesh. No one else matters. Religion kept men honest by asking them to hold themselves to something higher than mankind. We were forced to evaluate ourselves against something that we knew we could not obtain but only hope to strive for. This standard and fear of failure kept morality strong in society. But we have destroyed that. We have prided ourselves in declaring that we are our own masters and are beholden to nothing higher.

You know what, I'm not reading the rest of this garbage. It is complete and utter claptrap.

This is God, regarding rape:
http://www.evilbible.com...

Chew on that. It is the secularization of society that has allowed women to be thought of as actual people with rights equal to everyone else and not property. Less religion has done that.

It is the secularization of society that has allowed us to recognize that sex is not some mystical act with supernatural powers and consequences and that it is nothing to kill over, contrary to your religion.

It is the secularization of society that allows us to hold each other accountable for our actions for the betterment of society rather than trying to hold people accountable to the word of some bearded sky fairy which no one can agree about.

The idea that the only thing keeping you frame raping a person is that some toddler with superpowers going to punish you is disgusting. It's pathetic. That's obedience, not morality. It is ironic that you invoke Kant, when Kantian ethics say that morality is acting moral for the sake of morality, not because you are rewarded or threatened with punishment.

All of this is pseudo-philosophical rubbish. Rape is actually on a decline since the 90's. The idea that atheists are inherently lawless completely glosses over the bloody history of the religious, who use their religious as justification for their heinous actions.

I never said the only thing keeping you from raping someone is God. Good Lord. No. I am saying that religion, unperverted, helps keep people on a moral path.

First, show me an example of unperverted religion (and I'll show you someone saying it's perverted).
Second, demonstrate how it keeps anyone on a moral path.

I have a strong stake in Kant, I understand Kant. I believe in objective morality. I also believe in the state of nature. In my mind religion helps those, I state that you don't have to be religious to be moral but apparently you didn't read that far.
Such
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11/6/2013 1:41:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/6/2013 12:16:39 PM, drafterman wrote:

First, show me an example of unperverted religion (and I'll show you someone saying it's perverted).
Second, demonstrate how it keeps anyone on a moral path.

What do you have to say about Buddhism?

Also, do you question morality as a fundamental concept, or do you accept morality as a concept, but question religion's influence on it?