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How do people become gay?

WowYummy
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11/17/2013 4:46:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It's not 100% clear as to what causes homosexuality. I would like to hear all your opinions on how exactly someone develops to have homosexual desires. It could be based on personal experience or based on scientific research! Please try to keep religion out of this debate, as I would like it to mainly pertain to science. I will give you guys scientific research about this subject, so you may read it if you're not too educated about the subject or if you just feel like reading the research! You do not have to read it if you do not want to, but it is strongly suggested that you do, as there might be something you don't know! After I post the research, I will give my own opinion on what causes someone to be homosexual.

REMEMBER: There are no wrong answers here - only opinions. Just try to base your opinions on scientific research and/or personal experience! :)

THE RESEARCH:

There are three main claims as to what causes homosexuality:
1. "Homosexual behavior is a bad habit that people fall into because they are sexually permissive and experimental"
2. "Homosexual behavior is a mental illness, symptomatic of arrested development (homosexuals have unnatural or perverse desires as a consequence of poor familial relations in childhood or some other trauma)"
3. "Such [homosexual] desires are genetic or hormonal in origin, and that there is no choice involved and no 'childhood trauma' necessary" (basically homosexuality is genetic)

[Source: http://www.biblebelievers.com...]

Feel free to support or argue against one or more of these arguments, or create your own claim as to what causes homosexuality!

Is homosexuality genetic?
"'Since sexual orientation is such a complex trait, we're never going to find any one gene that determines whether someone is gay or not' says Mustanski. 'It's going to be a combination of various genes acting together as well as possibly interacting with environmental influences.'"

"Previous studies in male twins have suggested that between 40%-60% of the variability in sexual orientation is due to genes. The rest is thought to be due to environment and possibly other biologic but nongenetic causes."

"The genetic scans showed a clustering of the same genetic pattern among the gay men on three chromosomes -- chromosomes 7, 8, and 10. These common genetic patterns were shared by 60% of the gay men in the study. This is slightly more than the 50% expected by chance alone."

"The regions on chromosome 7 and 8 were associated with male sexual orientation regardless of whether the man got them from his mother or father. The regions on chromosome 10 were only associated with male sexual orientation if they were inherited from the mother."

[Source: http://www.webmd.com...]

Not enough research has been done to successfully conclude that homosexuality is indisputably a product of genetics. It seems as though right now, scientists believe that there is a genetic factor in homosexuality, but a lot of it has to do with environmental factors as well.

"Genes can"t control behavior completely, though. Genes regulate the production of amino acids, which combine to form proteins. The existence or absence of a protein can have an effect on things like alcohol tolerance or mood."

[Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com...]

So we can conclude that genes can play a role in making someone more susceptible to being homosexual, but genes alone [B]cannot[/B] cause homosexuality.

Is homosexuality a choice?
"In some societies, homosexuality is accepted, in others, it is frowned upon but tolerated, in yet others, it is a serious criminal offense, possibly punishable by death."

[Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com...]

It's hard to believe that homosexuality is a choice when there are homosexuals in places where homosexuality is punishable by death or torture. Why would anyone choose to be the subject of such persecution?

Many teens and children are bullied to the point of depression and suicide simply for being gay. Why would they choose to be bullied? If homosexuality were a choice, kids who "choose" to be homosexual would basically be setting themselves up for extreme harassment in many cases, which does not seem logical.

[If you want to read more on this issue: http://www.lhj.com...]

"All major national mental health organizations have officially expressed concerns about therapies promoted to modify sexual orientation. To date, there has been no scientifically adequate research to show that therapy aimed at changing sexual orientation (sometimes called reparative or conversion therapy) is safe or effective. Furthermore, it seems likely that the promotion of change therapies reinforces stereotypes and contributes to a negative climate for lesbian, gay and bisexual persons."

[Source: http://www.apa.org...]

Many scientists have expressed concerns about reparative/conversion therapies used to change sexual orientation, saying that it just doesn't work. This supports the claim that homosexuality is not a choice, because if it were a choice conversion therapy should work.

[See YouTube video for more info on conversion therapy and whether or not it works ]

MY BELIEF:

I think homosexuality is a mix of both genetics and environmental effects. I don't think it is a choice because I think you become homosexual before you even realize what sexual orientation is. I also don't believe you are born homosexual. Instead, I believe you are born with genes that may make you more susceptible to being homosexual, but it is your environment and development that really shapes your sexual orientation.

Now it's your turn to state your opinions on this matter and back them up with scientific/personal evidence! And for those who read through this entire post, thank you for your dedication/diligence! :)
Beverlee
Posts: 721
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11/17/2013 7:07:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't think the question itself is a "critical question" yet. I think that first, our society needs to learn where LGBT persons fit in. For example, we won the centuries-old argument for legitimacy in the US and Europe just now - in our generation. This is the first generation since ancient times where LGBT persons can actually contribute themselves to their world. Yet... LGBT people are still terrorized.

This means that societal acceptance is a prerequisite for better scientific understanding. Biases will contaminate any scientific conclusions that are made in such an environment.

So, we want to better understand the mechanics of human sexual interrelation. This includes homosexuality. But we live in a world today that JUST RECENTLY discovered the clitoris. So first, we need scientists that don't marinate in an environment of bias and presupposition in order to begin such a study. I'm not sure that we have a critical mass of such scientists.
wrichcirw
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11/17/2013 8:34:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 4:46:06 PM, WowYummy wrote:

[tl;dr]

MY BELIEF:

I think homosexuality is a mix of both genetics and environmental effects. I don't think it is a choice because I think you become homosexual before you even realize what sexual orientation is. I also don't believe you are born homosexual. Instead, I believe you are born with genes that may make you more susceptible to being homosexual, but it is your environment and development that really shapes your sexual orientation.

Now it's your turn to state your opinions on this matter and back them up with scientific/personal evidence! And for those who read through this entire post, thank you for your dedication/diligence! :)

I largely agree with the above.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
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11/17/2013 8:35:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 7:07:45 PM, Beverlee wrote:
I don't think the question itself is a "critical question" yet. I think that first, our society needs to learn where LGBT persons fit in. For example, we won the centuries-old argument for legitimacy in the US and Europe just now - in our generation. This is the first generation since ancient times where LGBT persons can actually contribute themselves to their world. Yet... LGBT people are still terrorized.

This means that societal acceptance is a prerequisite for better scientific understanding. Biases will contaminate any scientific conclusions that are made in such an environment.

So, we want to better understand the mechanics of human sexual interrelation. This includes homosexuality. But we live in a world today that JUST RECENTLY discovered the clitoris. So first, we need scientists that don't marinate in an environment of bias and presupposition in order to begin such a study. I'm not sure that we have a critical mass of such scientists.

I agree with all this too.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
bsh1
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11/17/2013 8:59:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
For me personally, I was just never attracted to women. I never "became" gay; I always was. I'm only out on DDO, and that's because my family strongly disapproves of homosexuality, despite being mostly left-of-center politically.

I was born gay, I realized I was gay late in the 5th grade, and it took me awhile to admit it. Once I did, I found it hard to accept myself as valuable, given my family's feelings. No one chooses to be gay--why would they? There is so much ridicule and vitriol against "homo's" out there that no one in their right mind would choose that path. Moreover, there is strong evidence to show that genetics play a strong role in orientation. In light of all this, I am forced to concluded that I was, in the immortal words of Lady Gaga, "Born this way." There's nothing more to it.
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thett3
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11/17/2013 9:04:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
People become gay by selling their souls to the devil
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Beverlee
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11/17/2013 9:24:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Just to back up a claim that I made:

The clitoris was "known" since forever - by women. It was first mapped out and "discovered" by science in 2009, after the first sonogram of the organ was made. Before this, it was thought to be useless, small, unimportant or whatever, on and off throughout antiquity.

An actual clitoris is about the same size and weight as a penis, and is spread out through a woman's entire pubic under-carriage.
http://www.themarysue.com...

My point: science did not even know the very most basic facts of human anatomy and sexual health. This is not a good study environment, therefore. In order for research to be more effective, we really need more seriousness and maturity. I don't see much evidence of that right now, and so I would be suspicious of any study that presented itself as conclusive.
WowYummy
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11/17/2013 9:33:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 8:59:44 PM, bsh1 wrote:
For me personally, I was just never attracted to women. I never "became" gay; I always was. I'm only out on DDO, and that's because my family strongly disapproves of homosexuality, despite being mostly left-of-center politically.

I was born gay, I realized I was gay late in the 5th grade, and it took me awhile to admit it. Once I did, I found it hard to accept myself as valuable, given my family's feelings. No one chooses to be gay--why would they? There is so much ridicule and vitriol against "homo's" out there that no one in their right mind would choose that path. Moreover, there is strong evidence to show that genetics play a strong role in orientation. In light of all this, I am forced to concluded that I was, in the immortal words of Lady Gaga, "Born this way." There's nothing more to it.

Thank you for sharing your personal experience! May I just ask, how are you so sure that you were born gay? What if you became gay before you were old enough to have the mental capacity to realize what sexual orientation is? Also, I'm sorry to hear about your family situation and the trouble of acceptance. I hope life is better for you now, and if it is not, I hope it will get better in the near future!
bsh1
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11/17/2013 9:35:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 9:33:48 PM, WowYummy wrote:
At 11/17/2013 8:59:44 PM, bsh1 wrote:
For me personally, I was just never attracted to women. I never "became" gay; I always was. I'm only out on DDO, and that's because my family strongly disapproves of homosexuality, despite being mostly left-of-center politically.

I was born gay, I realized I was gay late in the 5th grade, and it took me awhile to admit it. Once I did, I found it hard to accept myself as valuable, given my family's feelings. No one chooses to be gay--why would they? There is so much ridicule and vitriol against "homo's" out there that no one in their right mind would choose that path. Moreover, there is strong evidence to show that genetics play a strong role in orientation. In light of all this, I am forced to concluded that I was, in the immortal words of Lady Gaga, "Born this way." There's nothing more to it.

Thank you for sharing your personal experience! May I just ask, how are you so sure that you were born gay? What if you became gay before you were old enough to have the mental capacity to realize what sexual orientation is? Also, I'm sorry to hear about your family situation and the trouble of acceptance. I hope life is better for you now, and if it is not, I hope it will get better in the near future!

Thanks for your concern.

My surety arises from the fact that my family is so homophobic. It's unlikely that in a heavily heterosexualized atmosphere that I would have become gay due to environmental factors. This seems to imply something genetic.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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WowYummy
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11/17/2013 9:48:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 9:35:52 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 9:33:48 PM, WowYummy wrote:
At 11/17/2013 8:59:44 PM, bsh1 wrote:
For me personally, I was just never attracted to women. I never "became" gay; I always was. I'm only out on DDO, and that's because my family strongly disapproves of homosexuality, despite being mostly left-of-center politically.

I was born gay, I realized I was gay late in the 5th grade, and it took me awhile to admit it. Once I did, I found it hard to accept myself as valuable, given my family's feelings. No one chooses to be gay--why would they? There is so much ridicule and vitriol against "homo's" out there that no one in their right mind would choose that path. Moreover, there is strong evidence to show that genetics play a strong role in orientation. In light of all this, I am forced to concluded that I was, in the immortal words of Lady Gaga, "Born this way." There's nothing more to it.

Thank you for sharing your personal experience! May I just ask, how are you so sure that you were born gay? What if you became gay before you were old enough to have the mental capacity to realize what sexual orientation is? Also, I'm sorry to hear about your family situation and the trouble of acceptance. I hope life is better for you now, and if it is not, I hope it will get better in the near future!

Thanks for your concern.

My surety arises from the fact that my family is so homophobic. It's unlikely that in a heavily heterosexualized atmosphere that I would have become gay due to environmental factors. This seems to imply something genetic.

Anytime! :) And I understand your claim. I know of many instances in families where the father raised his son to be as stereotypically heterosexual as possible, yet the son still turned out gay.

If you're interested, this video provides an example of what I mean:
YYW
Posts: 36,287
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11/17/2013 9:49:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 8:59:44 PM, bsh1 wrote:
For me personally, I was just never attracted to women. I never "became" gay; I always was.

*Raises glass to you*

I'm only out on DDO, and that's because my family strongly disapproves of homosexuality, despite being mostly left-of-center politically.

I'm so sorry, but I understand, man.

I was born gay, I realized I was gay late in the 5th grade, and it took me awhile to admit it.

I think I was 12 when I figured out that I wasn't attracted sexually to girls.

Once I did, I found it hard to accept myself as valuable, given my family's feelings. No one chooses to be gay--why would they? There is so much ridicule and vitriol against "homo's" out there that no one in their right mind would choose that path.

*Hugs*

Moreover, there is strong evidence to show that genetics play a strong role in orientation. In light of all this, I am forced to concluded that I was, in the immortal words of Lady Gaga, "Born this way." There's nothing more to it.

Truth.
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
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11/17/2013 10:04:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 9:48:27 PM, WowYummy wrote:
At 11/17/2013 9:35:52 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 9:33:48 PM, WowYummy wrote:
At 11/17/2013 8:59:44 PM, bsh1 wrote:
For me personally, I was just never attracted to women. I never "became" gay; I always was. I'm only out on DDO, and that's because my family strongly disapproves of homosexuality, despite being mostly left-of-center politically.

I was born gay, I realized I was gay late in the 5th grade, and it took me awhile to admit it. Once I did, I found it hard to accept myself as valuable, given my family's feelings. No one chooses to be gay--why would they? There is so much ridicule and vitriol against "homo's" out there that no one in their right mind would choose that path. Moreover, there is strong evidence to show that genetics play a strong role in orientation. In light of all this, I am forced to concluded that I was, in the immortal words of Lady Gaga, "Born this way." There's nothing more to it.

Thank you for sharing your personal experience! May I just ask, how are you so sure that you were born gay? What if you became gay before you were old enough to have the mental capacity to realize what sexual orientation is? Also, I'm sorry to hear about your family situation and the trouble of acceptance. I hope life is better for you now, and if it is not, I hope it will get better in the near future!

Thanks for your concern.

My surety arises from the fact that my family is so homophobic. It's unlikely that in a heavily heterosexualized atmosphere that I would have become gay due to environmental factors. This seems to imply something genetic.

Anytime! :) And I understand your claim. I know of many instances in families where the father raised his son to be as stereotypically heterosexual as possible, yet the son still turned out gay.

If you're interested, this video provides an example of what I mean:

Exactly. Because I was raised to be stereotypically heterosexual, I find it exceedingly hard to believe that I became gay due to some unnamed environmental factor. This evidence seems to support the theory that homosexuality is genetic, at least more so than it is environmental.
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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11/17/2013 10:05:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 9:04:05 PM, thett3 wrote:
People become gay by selling their souls to the devil

Wow thett, really? (I say this with good-natured sarcasm...)
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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11/17/2013 10:08:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 9:49:25 PM, YYW wrote:
At 11/17/2013 8:59:44 PM, bsh1 wrote:
For me personally, I was just never attracted to women. I never "became" gay; I always was.

*Raises glass to you*

I'm only out on DDO, and that's because my family strongly disapproves of homosexuality, despite being mostly left-of-center politically.

I'm so sorry, but I understand, man.

I was born gay, I realized I was gay late in the 5th grade, and it took me awhile to admit it.

I think I was 12 when I figured out that I wasn't attracted sexually to girls.

I was a little over 11--maybe 11.5...

Once I did, I found it hard to accept myself as valuable, given my family's feelings. No one chooses to be gay--why would they? There is so much ridicule and vitriol against "homo's" out there that no one in their right mind would choose that path.

*Hugs*

Moreover, there is strong evidence to show that genetics play a strong role in orientation. In light of all this, I am forced to concluded that I was, in the immortal words of Lady Gaga, "Born this way." There's nothing more to it.

Truth.

Thanks for the support YYW
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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thett3
Posts: 14,345
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11/17/2013 10:09:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 10:05:54 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 9:04:05 PM, thett3 wrote:
People become gay by selling their souls to the devil

Wow thett, really? (I say this with good-natured sarcasm...)

actually I do feel kind of bad about it after seeing yours and YYW's posts, it wasnt a very funny joke
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
bsh1
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11/17/2013 10:12:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 10:09:34 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 10:05:54 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 9:04:05 PM, thett3 wrote:
People become gay by selling their souls to the devil

Wow thett, really? (I say this with good-natured sarcasm...)

actually I do feel kind of bad about it after seeing yours and YYW's posts, it wasnt a very funny joke

Don't feel bad--it wasn't "unfunny." Plus, we all knew you were joking...Now, if my mom had said that...
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

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YYW
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11/17/2013 10:13:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 10:09:34 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 10:05:54 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 9:04:05 PM, thett3 wrote:
People become gay by selling their souls to the devil

Wow thett, really? (I say this with good-natured sarcasm...)

actually I do feel kind of bad about it after seeing yours and YYW's posts, it wasnt a very funny joke

Jokes don't bother me, dude. I've got pretty thick skin.

Cheers.
Tsar of DDO
Beverlee
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11/17/2013 10:33:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
There never was a time when I was not attracted to girls... Like ever. Even when I was very little. I knew for sure and admitted it to myself when I was in the 4th grade, I think. I allowed myself to fall in puppy love with my music teacher. She was so beautiful I could barely breathe when she came near my seat.

Alternately, I've never been erotically attracted to guys. It's not like "I'm just not into guys," it's more like a repulsion that I think would compare to the way straight men think about having sex with another man. I don't dislike guys at all, I love men... Just not like that. I have tried to date guys, and have tried to make myself get turned on by guys before... It's just seriously not happening.

I KNOW it's hard wired in somehow. Genetic, developmental, something. This isn't something I decided... Not at all.
wrichcirw
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11/17/2013 10:37:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 9:35:52 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 9:33:48 PM, WowYummy wrote:
At 11/17/2013 8:59:44 PM, bsh1 wrote:
For me personally, I was just never attracted to women. I never "became" gay; I always was. I'm only out on DDO, and that's because my family strongly disapproves of homosexuality, despite being mostly left-of-center politically.

I was born gay, I realized I was gay late in the 5th grade, and it took me awhile to admit it. Once I did, I found it hard to accept myself as valuable, given my family's feelings. No one chooses to be gay--why would they? There is so much ridicule and vitriol against "homo's" out there that no one in their right mind would choose that path. Moreover, there is strong evidence to show that genetics play a strong role in orientation. In light of all this, I am forced to concluded that I was, in the immortal words of Lady Gaga, "Born this way." There's nothing more to it.

Thank you for sharing your personal experience! May I just ask, how are you so sure that you were born gay? What if you became gay before you were old enough to have the mental capacity to realize what sexual orientation is? Also, I'm sorry to hear about your family situation and the trouble of acceptance. I hope life is better for you now, and if it is not, I hope it will get better in the near future!

Thanks for your concern.

My surety arises from the fact that my family is so homophobic. It's unlikely that in a heavily heterosexualized atmosphere that I would have become gay due to environmental factors. This seems to imply something genetic.

Perhaps your family's homophobia arises from their own homosexual leanings, i.e. the American Beauty effect (the Marine colonel in that movie).

Just a theory.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
bsh1
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11/17/2013 10:42:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 10:37:01 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 11/17/2013 9:35:52 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 9:33:48 PM, WowYummy wrote:
At 11/17/2013 8:59:44 PM, bsh1 wrote:
For me personally, I was just never attracted to women. I never "became" gay; I always was. I'm only out on DDO, and that's because my family strongly disapproves of homosexuality, despite being mostly left-of-center politically.

I was born gay, I realized I was gay late in the 5th grade, and it took me awhile to admit it. Once I did, I found it hard to accept myself as valuable, given my family's feelings. No one chooses to be gay--why would they? There is so much ridicule and vitriol against "homo's" out there that no one in their right mind would choose that path. Moreover, there is strong evidence to show that genetics play a strong role in orientation. In light of all this, I am forced to concluded that I was, in the immortal words of Lady Gaga, "Born this way." There's nothing more to it.

Thank you for sharing your personal experience! May I just ask, how are you so sure that you were born gay? What if you became gay before you were old enough to have the mental capacity to realize what sexual orientation is? Also, I'm sorry to hear about your family situation and the trouble of acceptance. I hope life is better for you now, and if it is not, I hope it will get better in the near future!

Thanks for your concern.

My surety arises from the fact that my family is so homophobic. It's unlikely that in a heavily heterosexualized atmosphere that I would have become gay due to environmental factors. This seems to imply something genetic.

Perhaps your family's homophobia arises from their own homosexual leanings, i.e. the American Beauty effect (the Marine colonel in that movie).

Just a theory.

No--I think that they're probably straight. I mean, my dad thinks homosexuality is disgusting, but he voted to legalize it in the MD referendum because he wants government out of people's bedrooms. My mom is a bit religious, and her beliefs stem from the papacy's dislike of "gay acts." she voted to keep gay marriage illegal...but she has gay friends and doesn't pester them about their sexuality.

I mean, they're homophobic insofar as they believe having gay relationships is wrong, immoral, and gross, but they don't preach the homophobic gospel. they don't hate people just for being gay, though they would both really be creeped out if I ever came home with a boyfriend or came out to them.
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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11/17/2013 10:46:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 10:42:24 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 10:37:01 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 11/17/2013 9:35:52 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 9:33:48 PM, WowYummy wrote:

My surety arises from the fact that my family is so homophobic. It's unlikely that in a heavily heterosexualized atmosphere that I would have become gay due to environmental factors. This seems to imply something genetic.

Perhaps your family's homophobia arises from their own homosexual leanings, i.e. the American Beauty effect (the Marine colonel in that movie).

Just a theory.

No--I think that they're probably straight. I mean, my dad thinks homosexuality is disgusting, but he voted to legalize it in the MD referendum because he wants government out of people's bedrooms. My mom is a bit religious, and her beliefs stem from the papacy's dislike of "gay acts." she voted to keep gay marriage illegal...but she has gay friends and doesn't pester them about their sexuality.

I mean, they're homophobic insofar as they believe having gay relationships is wrong, immoral, and gross, but they don't preach the homophobic gospel. they don't hate people just for being gay, though they would both really be creeped out if I ever came home with a boyfriend or came out to them.

lol, sorry for finding this funny, I'm sure this isn't exactly funny to you...this last paragraph seemed a bit contradictory. Your family believes being gay is "wrong, immoral, and gross" but "they don't hate people just for being gay"? It sounds like they DO hate people just for being gay...
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
bsh1
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11/17/2013 10:50:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 10:46:44 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 11/17/2013 10:42:24 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 10:37:01 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 11/17/2013 9:35:52 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 9:33:48 PM, WowYummy wrote:

My surety arises from the fact that my family is so homophobic. It's unlikely that in a heavily heterosexualized atmosphere that I would have become gay due to environmental factors. This seems to imply something genetic.

Perhaps your family's homophobia arises from their own homosexual leanings, i.e. the American Beauty effect (the Marine colonel in that movie).

Just a theory.

No--I think that they're probably straight. I mean, my dad thinks homosexuality is disgusting, but he voted to legalize it in the MD referendum because he wants government out of people's bedrooms. My mom is a bit religious, and her beliefs stem from the papacy's dislike of "gay acts." she voted to keep gay marriage illegal...but she has gay friends and doesn't pester them about their sexuality.

I mean, they're homophobic insofar as they believe having gay relationships is wrong, immoral, and gross, but they don't preach the homophobic gospel. they don't hate people just for being gay, though they would both really be creeped out if I ever came home with a boyfriend or came out to them.

lol, sorry for finding this funny, I'm sure this isn't exactly funny to you...this last paragraph seemed a bit contradictory. Your family believes being gay is "wrong, immoral, and gross" but "they don't hate people just for being gay"? It sounds like they DO hate people just for being gay...

Okay, I guess it's like this. I think cats are horrible pets. I don't hate you for being a cat owner. I simply strongly disapprove of your cat ownership. My parents don't hate you for being gay. My Dad just strongly disapproves of it, and my mom prays for you because she thinks your a good person who is being lead astray. But they don't hate you for it. Does that make sense? Now, if they knew I were gay, that might be a different case altogether...
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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11/17/2013 10:52:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 10:50:57 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 10:46:44 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 11/17/2013 10:42:24 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 10:37:01 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 11/17/2013 9:35:52 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 9:33:48 PM, WowYummy wrote:

My surety arises from the fact that my family is so homophobic. It's unlikely that in a heavily heterosexualized atmosphere that I would have become gay due to environmental factors. This seems to imply something genetic.

Perhaps your family's homophobia arises from their own homosexual leanings, i.e. the American Beauty effect (the Marine colonel in that movie).

Just a theory.

No--I think that they're probably straight. I mean, my dad thinks homosexuality is disgusting, but he voted to legalize it in the MD referendum because he wants government out of people's bedrooms. My mom is a bit religious, and her beliefs stem from the papacy's dislike of "gay acts." she voted to keep gay marriage illegal...but she has gay friends and doesn't pester them about their sexuality.

I mean, they're homophobic insofar as they believe having gay relationships is wrong, immoral, and gross, but they don't preach the homophobic gospel. they don't hate people just for being gay, though they would both really be creeped out if I ever came home with a boyfriend or came out to them.

lol, sorry for finding this funny, I'm sure this isn't exactly funny to you...this last paragraph seemed a bit contradictory. Your family believes being gay is "wrong, immoral, and gross" but "they don't hate people just for being gay"? It sounds like they DO hate people just for being gay...

Okay, I guess it's like this. I think cats are horrible pets. I don't hate you for being a cat owner. I simply strongly disapprove of your cat ownership. My parents don't hate you for being gay. My Dad just strongly disapproves of it, and my mom prays for you because she thinks your a good person who is being lead astray. But they don't hate you for it. Does that make sense? Now, if they knew I were gay, that might be a different case altogether...

That's kind of my point, lol. You can avoid cat owners, your parents can avoid gay people and pray for their souls, but if YOU were gay, OMFG (sorry for hyperbole)...
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Mikal
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11/18/2013 1:11:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
there is a conference Obama has set up that you must attend to be considered gay. It is help annually and if you cannot attend , you can send in a letter. It is federal recognition and by doing so, you are granting the government the right to allow same sex marriage as a possibility.
ADreamOfLiberty
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11/18/2013 10:15:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
This implied dichotomy between genetics and environment should be placed in it's proper context.

Since genetics controls every aspect of biology, even the parts that appear to react to the environment saying that something is not ultimately caused by genes is universally incorrect.

The real question here is whether a sexual orientation is 'hard-coded' mental structure or whether it is 'built' on the fly.

It is misleading when people say "I didn't choose it" and then inferring that they must be "born that way."

It is completely possible that the mental structure (and that's really the most precise term we have any right to use at this point in history) was built before or during puberty and cannot be voluntarily changed.

If there was a gene which hard coded homosexuality or any other deviant sexual attractions it would have been easily identifiable because it would follow Mendelian inheritance patterns more or less.

What we got here is possible genetic factors. You could have a gene that affects the construction of that mental structure during puberty. A control mechanism to limit the scope of the target or an control mechanism that is overreacting to stimuli.

It is conceivable and plausible that as little as one gene is 'responsible' for all sexual orientations and that environmental factors are what decide the final state of that orientation.

This easily explains why no direct correlation to genes can be established.
LOL, yeah, it's pretty amazing how they think they can "reason" with you. - Sidewalker, speaking of advocates for sexual deviancy.

So, my advice, Liberty, is to go somewhere else. Leave, and never come back. - YYW

And that's what I did. Contact me at http://www.edeb8.com... by the same user name if you have anything you'd like to say.
YYW
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11/18/2013 12:25:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I've been reluctant to speak up on this thread, because of how utterly insignificant it is that people properly understand the "roots" -and I use that word loosely- of homosexuality. But, let me just say a few words: the idea that social/post-natal environmental factors play into one's likelihood of being a homosexual is as stupid as it is ill founded. This is one of those instances where it is irrelevant what individual people think/believe/posit/proclaim/decry, because where empirical evidence is at odds with what you "personally" believe to be true, either you are ignorant (insofar as you are unaware of what science says), an idiot (if you know what science says, and you reject it) or full of sh!t (if either you don't have the cognitive ability to process and understand what science has to say about this matter or you accept what science says but refuse to admit it because your politics are at odds with objective reality). And before anyone who disagrees with me has the gaul to say "SHOW ME THE EVIDINCE, YYW! SHOW ME THE EVIDINCE!" ...have enough personal dignity to realize that at this point, what I just said is something called common knowledge while realizing that I don't give a sh!t if you accept what I've just said or not. Why? Popular belief does not make something the case or not the case.
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
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11/18/2013 2:36:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 12:25:11 PM, YYW wrote:
I've been reluctant to speak up on this thread, because of how utterly insignificant it is that people properly understand the "roots" -and I use that word loosely- of homosexuality. But, let me just say a few words: the idea that social/post-natal environmental factors play into one's likelihood of being a homosexual is as stupid as it is ill founded. This is one of those instances where it is irrelevant what individual people think/believe/posit/proclaim/decry, because where empirical evidence is at odds with what you "personally" believe to be true, either you are ignorant (insofar as you are unaware of what science says), an idiot (if you know what science says, and you reject it) or full of sh!t (if either you don't have the cognitive ability to process and understand what science has to say about this matter or you accept what science says but refuse to admit it because your politics are at odds with objective reality). And before anyone who disagrees with me has the gaul to say "SHOW ME THE EVIDINCE, YYW! SHOW ME THE EVIDINCE!" ...have enough personal dignity to realize that at this point, what I just said is something called common knowledge while realizing that I don't give a sh!t if you accept what I've just said or not. Why? Popular belief does not make something the case or not the case.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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11/18/2013 2:37:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Being gay is not a morally relevant distinction between human beings--that's the bottom line.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
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Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...