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Why do people buy into the bullying propagand

luvx
Posts: 53
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11/18/2013 7:56:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why do people buy into the bullying & suicide propaganda?

Bullying always existed and no one did not commit suicide as a result of bullying in the 20th century.
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
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11/18/2013 10:51:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 7:56:07 AM, luvx wrote:
Why do people buy into the bullying & suicide propaganda?

Bullying always existed and no one did not commit suicide as a result of bullying in the 20th century.

Mass media. They abuse the first amendment so much that they manipulate the stories to make the bullies seems like the sole issue, by asserting that correlation equals causation. Not to mention the fact that our culture views victim-blaming as if it should be a crime, so nobody dares look at the victim and wonder why they didn't bother to do anything.

Plus, you don't here about any bullying related suicides in the 20th century. Most suicides you here about from back then are political or military leaders that don't want to be tortured or embarrassed publicly.
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
YYW
Posts: 36,233
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11/18/2013 12:55:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think you meant to say something else in your OP, but I have a few thoughts about why bullying is a problem:

(1) Technology allows bullying to be a truly unrelenting life experience, such that it cannot be reasonably escaped without truly disengaging from all social media in some cases.

(2) The proposed "solutions" to bullying only makes kids more likely to bully each other and makes bullies feel powerless. This is part of an ongoing trend I think is describable as the "wussification" of Western youth. The fact that people don't give a sh!t about other people is an even bigger problem, but that is a result, not a cause of the problem we're discussing here.

(3) The fact that we are as a society afraid to admit that in some cases it's necessary to kick someone else's @ss.
Adam2
Posts: 1,024
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11/18/2013 3:09:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 10:51:00 AM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 11/18/2013 7:56:07 AM, luvx wrote:
Why do people buy into the bullying & suicide propaganda?

Bullying always existed and no one did not commit suicide as a result of bullying in the 20th century.

Mass media. They abuse the first amendment so much that they manipulate the stories to make the bullies seems like the sole issue, by asserting that correlation equals causation. Not to mention the fact that our culture views victim-blaming as if it should be a crime, so nobody dares look at the victim and wonder why they didn't bother to do anything.

Plus, you don't here about any bullying related suicides in the 20th century. Most suicides you here about from back then are political or military leaders that don't want to be tortured or embarrassed publicly.

Agreed.
Has anyone even given thought to the possibility that maybe there's a reason why bullies behave the way they behave? They're not evil.
Adam2
Posts: 1,024
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11/18/2013 3:10:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 10:51:00 AM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 11/18/2013 7:56:07 AM, luvx wrote:
Why do people buy into the bullying & suicide propaganda?

Bullying always existed and no one did not commit suicide as a result of bullying in the 20th century.

Mass media. They abuse the first amendment so much that they manipulate the stories to make the bullies seems like the sole issue, by asserting that correlation equals causation. Not to mention the fact that our culture views victim-blaming as if it should be a crime, so nobody dares look at the victim and wonder why they didn't bother to do anything.

Plus, you don't here about any bullying related suicides in the 20th century. Most suicides you here about from back then are political or military leaders that don't want to be tortured or embarrassed publicly.

Not condoning it, just making a suggestion.
Adam2
Posts: 1,024
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11/18/2013 3:10:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 10:51:00 AM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 11/18/2013 7:56:07 AM, luvx wrote:
Why do people buy into the bullying & suicide propaganda?

Bullying always existed and no one did not commit suicide as a result of bullying in the 20th century.

Mass media. They abuse the first amendment so much that they manipulate the stories to make the bullies seems like the sole issue, by asserting that correlation equals causation. Not to mention the fact that our culture views victim-blaming as if it should be a crime, so nobody dares look at the victim and wonder why they didn't bother to do anything.

Plus, you don't here about any bullying related suicides in the 20th century. Most suicides you here about from back then are political or military leaders that don't want to be tortured or embarrassed publicly.

Lack of a loving home.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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11/18/2013 3:23:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 12:55:06 PM, YYW wrote:

Seriously, you stole my thunder, (but you probably spoke better than I would have)
I think you meant to say something else in your OP, but I have a few thoughts about why bullying is a problem:


(1) Technology allows bullying to be a truly unrelenting life experience, such that it cannot be reasonably escaped without truly disengaging from all social media in some cases.

Precisely.
Facebook and text messages (even from throw away cells) are a constant barrage, where in the olden days, the bullying stopped once school was over.

Plus, the fact that, even if bullies were stopped at school, there is no one to monitor/protect/intervene the victim's social media.

(2) The proposed "solutions" to bullying only makes kids more likely to bully each other and makes bullies feel powerless. This is part of an ongoing trend I think is describable as the "wussification" of Western youth. The fact that people don't give a sh!t about other people is an even bigger problem, but that is a result, not a cause of the problem we're discussing here.

Agreed.
Kids are too thin-skinned, IMO. Victims are victims too readily.
Kids (and adults) are too entitled, IMO. Bullies are too eager to satisfy their own wants at the expense of others.

(3) The fact that we are as a society afraid to admit that in some cases it's necessary to kick someone else's @ss.

Just to be put in their place.
My work here is, finally, done.
YYW
Posts: 36,233
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11/18/2013 3:46:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 3:23:14 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 11/18/2013 12:55:06 PM, YYW wrote:

Seriously, you stole my thunder, (but you probably spoke better than I would have)
I think you meant to say something else in your OP, but I have a few thoughts about why bullying is a problem:


(1) Technology allows bullying to be a truly unrelenting life experience, such that it cannot be reasonably escaped without truly disengaging from all social media in some cases.

Precisely.
Facebook and text messages (even from throw away cells) are a constant barrage, where in the olden days, the bullying stopped once school was over.

Also, it used to be the case that if someone was bullying someone else, this could be settled behind the school house after the bell rang.

Plus, the fact that, even if bullies were stopped at school, there is no one to monitor/protect/intervene the victim's social media.

(2) The proposed "solutions" to bullying only makes kids more likely to bully each other and makes bullies feel powerless. This is part of an ongoing trend I think is describable as the "wussification" of Western youth. The fact that people don't give a sh!t about other people is an even bigger problem, but that is a result, not a cause of the problem we're discussing here.

Agreed.
Kids are too thin-skinned, IMO. Victims are victims too readily.

Damn right.

Kids (and adults) are too entitled, IMO. Bullies are too eager to satisfy their own wants at the expense of others.

DAMN right!


(3) The fact that we are as a society afraid to admit that in some cases it's necessary to kick someone else's @ss.

Just to be put in their place.

And people forget the social necessity of that taking place more often than they should.
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
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11/18/2013 4:05:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 3:09:54 PM, Adam2 wrote:
At 11/18/2013 10:51:00 AM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 11/18/2013 7:56:07 AM, luvx wrote:
Why do people buy into the bullying & suicide propaganda?

Bullying always existed and no one did not commit suicide as a result of bullying in the 20th century.

Mass media. They abuse the first amendment so much that they manipulate the stories to make the bullies seems like the sole issue, by asserting that correlation equals causation. Not to mention the fact that our culture views victim-blaming as if it should be a crime, so nobody dares look at the victim and wonder why they didn't bother to do anything.

Plus, you don't here about any bullying related suicides in the 20th century. Most suicides you here about from back then are political or military leaders that don't want to be tortured or embarrassed publicly.

Agreed.
Has anyone even given thought to the possibility that maybe there's a reason why bullies behave the way they behave? They're not evil.

Easy Humans, like animals, have a hierarchical social structure (amongst other structures). Like animals, we like to fight to be the alpha male (or in our unique case, sometimes alpha female. Bullies are one of those people that want to be the alpha male, and therefore a just part of the social structure.

Another viewpoint is that many bullies were abused as children, and therefore have gotten the mindset the violence is a good thing, and therefore see no harm in harming others, in which case they need to be shown otherwise.

Lastly, which is similar to the first viewpoint, is that kids just naturally like to pick on each other, and it's only when they pick on someone that doesn't like being picked on that they are branded a bully by society.

Either which way, it's very sad that they get the bad media that they do.
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
Adam2
Posts: 1,024
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11/18/2013 4:08:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 3:23:14 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 11/18/2013 12:55:06 PM, YYW wrote:

Seriously, you stole my thunder, (but you probably spoke better than I would have)
I think you meant to say something else in your OP, but I have a few thoughts about why bullying is a problem:


(1) Technology allows bullying to be a truly unrelenting life experience, such that it cannot be reasonably escaped without truly disengaging from all social media in some cases.

Precisely.
Facebook and text messages (even from throw away cells) are a constant barrage, where in the olden days, the bullying stopped once school was over.

Plus, the fact that, even if bullies were stopped at school, there is no one to monitor/protect/intervene the victim's social media.

(2) The proposed "solutions" to bullying only makes kids more likely to bully each other and makes bullies feel powerless. This is part of an ongoing trend I think is describable as the "wussification" of Western youth. The fact that people don't give a sh!t about other people is an even bigger problem, but that is a result, not a cause of the problem we're discussing here.

Agreed.
Kids are too thin-skinned, IMO. Victims are victims too readily.
Kids (and adults) are too entitled, IMO. Bullies are too eager to satisfy their own wants at the expense of others.

(3) The fact that we are as a society afraid to admit that in some cases it's necessary to kick someone else's @ss.

Just to be put in their place.

Kids are two thin-skinned these days, I agree.
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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11/18/2013 6:49:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 12:55:06 PM, YYW wrote:
I think you meant to say something else in your OP, but I have a few thoughts about why bullying is a problem:

(1) Technology allows bullying to be a truly unrelenting life experience, such that it cannot be reasonably escaped without truly disengaging from all social media in some cases.

This is a good point, and I would add on to this by saying that its probably very difficult to do the bolded. Some bullies do their work by creating purposely false stories/rumors about someone, in addition to the usual insults. If you exit social media, you become unable to respond to any of those things and would have to worry about the statements being posted being taken as true, since you're not there to disagree with them. I can just imagine someone posting "Jane pissed her pants in class today lololol" on Facebook and having people think its true. Additionally, if someone posts an insulting story about someone online, and they're not on social media to read it, they would wonder why everyone at the school is looking at them so strangely the following day, further encouraging them to log back on and see what happened.

(2) The proposed "solutions" to bullying only makes kids more likely to bully each other and makes bullies feel powerless. This is part of an ongoing trend I think is describable as the "wussification" of Western youth. The fact that people don't give a sh!t about other people is an even bigger problem, but that is a result, not a cause of the problem we're discussing here.

I'm confused. If the solutions are making bullies powerless, why would there be more bullying?

Regardless, you're right that there isn't enough consideration given for others. What would you do to fix this problem though?

(3) The fact that we are as a society afraid to admit that in some cases it's necessary to kick someone else's @ss.
YYW
Posts: 36,233
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11/18/2013 9:23:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 6:49:19 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 11/18/2013 12:55:06 PM, YYW wrote:
I think you meant to say something else in your OP, but I have a few thoughts about why bullying is a problem:

(1) Technology allows bullying to be a truly unrelenting life experience, such that it cannot be reasonably escaped without truly disengaging from all social media in some cases.

This is a good point, and I would add on to this by saying that its probably very difficult to do the bolded. Some bullies do their work by creating purposely false stories/rumors about someone, in addition to the usual insults. If you exit social media, you become unable to respond to any of those things and would have to worry about the statements being posted being taken as true, since you're not there to disagree with them. I can just imagine someone posting "Jane pissed her pants in class today lololol" on Facebook and having people think its true. Additionally, if someone posts an insulting story about someone online, and they're not on social media to read it, they would wonder why everyone at the school is looking at them so strangely the following day, further encouraging them to log back on and see what happened.

(2) The proposed "solutions" to bullying only makes kids more likely to bully each other and makes bullies feel powerless. This is part of an ongoing trend I think is describable as the "wussification" of Western youth. The fact that people don't give a sh!t about other people is an even bigger problem, but that is a result, not a cause of the problem we're discussing here.

I'm confused. If the solutions are making bullies powerless, why would there be more bullying?

Sorry, my typing isn't all that great. I blame it on the fact that I watch TV and type at the same time.

Proposed solutions to bullying only reaffirm bullies' power.

Again, mea culpa.

Regardless, you're right that there isn't enough consideration given for others. What would you do to fix this problem though?

(3) The fact that we are as a society afraid to admit that in some cases it's necessary to kick someone else's @ss.
Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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11/18/2013 10:52:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Bullying is - for the most part - something that ought to be dealt with by social dynamics and strong, honourable watchmen. Bullying is no real matter for the law - traditional honour codes are the solution. In this case there is a futility to the law. Be bold, confident and assertive - you won't be picked upon. Yes, I do come from an area without a great deal of bullying, and yes, there are times when something serious must be done. But, as research into behavioural science shows, stopping the first infraction is critical. That's not something the law can do - you need to build evidence etc. It's a place for a vigilante like group to act.

Of course, factors like the constant nature of social media, teenagers having more leisure time, children being 'thin-skinned' all play a role. At the end of the day though, if people live according to codes of honour things will resolve. You gain respect, you lose it etc. It works.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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11/19/2013 3:25:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 10:52:11 PM, Logic_on_rails wrote:
Bullying is - for the most part - something that ought to be dealt with by social dynamics and strong, honourable watchmen. Bullying is no real matter for the law - traditional honour codes are the solution. In this case there is a futility to the law. Be bold, confident and assertive - you won't be picked upon. Yes, I do come from an area without a great deal of bullying, and yes, there are times when something serious must be done. But, as research into behavioural science shows, stopping the first infraction is critical. That's not something the law can do - you need to build evidence etc. It's a place for a vigilante like group to act.

Of course, factors like the constant nature of social media, teenagers having more leisure time, children being 'thin-skinned' all play a role. At the end of the day though, if people live according to codes of honour things will resolve. You gain respect, you lose it etc. It works.

From where I sit, few people care about honor.
Most are hypocrites and self-serving selfish hedonists.
In America, there is no shame anymore, just look at our reality TV and sense of entitlement.
My work here is, finally, done.
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
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11/19/2013 4:19:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 3:25:15 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 11/18/2013 10:52:11 PM, Logic_on_rails wrote:
Bullying is - for the most part - something that ought to be dealt with by social dynamics and strong, honourable watchmen. Bullying is no real matter for the law - traditional honour codes are the solution. In this case there is a futility to the law. Be bold, confident and assertive - you won't be picked upon. Yes, I do come from an area without a great deal of bullying, and yes, there are times when something serious must be done. But, as research into behavioural science shows, stopping the first infraction is critical. That's not something the law can do - you need to build evidence etc. It's a place for a vigilante like group to act.

Of course, factors like the constant nature of social media, teenagers having more leisure time, children being 'thin-skinned' all play a role. At the end of the day though, if people live according to codes of honour things will resolve. You gain respect, you lose it etc. It works.

From where I sit, few people care about honor.
Most are hypocrites and self-serving selfish hedonists.
In America, there is no shame anymore, just look at our reality TV and sense of entitlement.

Don't judge a culture based off it's T.V. That's the 21st century equivalent of don't judge a book by it's cover.
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
YYW
Posts: 36,233
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11/19/2013 9:15:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 10:52:11 PM, Logic_on_rails wrote:
Bullying is - for the most part - something that ought to be dealt with by social dynamics and strong, honourable watchmen.

Indeed.

Bullying is no real matter for the law - traditional honour codes are the solution.

Indeed.

In this case there is a futility to the law. Be bold, confident and assertive - you won't be picked upon.

Indeed.

Yes, I do come from an area without a great deal of bullying, and yes, there are times when something serious must be done.

Sometimes some people just need a kick in the @ss. So, indeed.

But, as research into behavioural science shows, stopping the first infraction is critical.

That happens by teaching people to stand up for themselves, not to whine about being victims. The only way not to be a victim is to refuse to be victimized.

That's not something the law can do - you CAN NOT build evidence etc. It's a place for a vigilante like group to act.

Yes.

Of course, factors like the constant nature of social media, teenagers having more leisure time, children being 'thin-skinned' all play a role. At the end of the day though, if people live according to codes of honour things will resolve. You gain respect, you lose it etc. It works.
Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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11/20/2013 3:58:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 3:25:15 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

From where I sit, few people care about honor.
Most are hypocrites and self-serving selfish hedonists.
In America, there is no shame anymore, just look at our reality TV and sense of entitlement.

That few care about honour, that honour must begin to be created through the efforts of localised groups of civilians... is no reason that it shouldn't be done. There is something to be said for a well earned respect. Shame and dishonour go part in parcel with that. I'm not necessarily talking about actual aggression or violence, but social ostracisation - people walk out of a room when somebody enters, you avoid talking; they are not part of the group.

'Reality TV' is a modern malady. An insidious, utterly stupid invention to be sure. The modern era has advantages over the past. Reality TV is not one of them.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it