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A Scenario, and a Moral Question

YYW
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1/31/2014 12:43:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I would like to offer the following idea up for your consideration... It's really, quite simple, but more controversial than I expected it would be when I asked this in another setting:

Suppose that one person, let's call him Jack, is a fairly strong guy. He's relatively tall, not extremely muscular, but fit and more than considerably stronger than Danny, who is smaller, and whom without doubt would loose considerably in a fight between Jack and Danny.

Jack and Danny are in a bar, and Jack makes an off color, but accurate, comment to Danny which was not meant maliciously but which deeply offended Danny, who consequently punches Jack in the chest. Jack, being relatively unscathed by Danny's aggression shrugs of Danny's hit and makes it clear that while he was willing to let this one go, if Danny did it again, there would be very real consequences.

Danny, having not hit Jack as hard as he believed he could, is even more offended by Jack's ultimatum and proceeds to punch Jack in the jaw, which causes Jack's lip to bleed. Jack punches Danny back, and Danny falls off his bar stool onto the ground. Jack looks at the ground, and turns to take another sip of his drink.

His pride hurt, Danny hits Jack with the bar stool in what would become a failed attempt to knock Jack unconscious. Danny, at this point, is acting without regard to his probability of winning an potential fight and is in this moment demonstrating that hurting Jack is at that point of more value to Danny than Danny's own personal safety. Realizing the extent of the escalation, and that Danny intends to continue attacking him until he incapacitates Danny, Jack hits Danny with enough force to knock Danny unconscious.

There are observers who attempted to break the fight up, but given Danny's actions, intervention of any meaningful sort would have come at great personal risk for both the bar-tender and other patrons. There are no other parties which could reasonably stop Danny from attacking Jack once Danny decided to hit Jack with the chair.

So, the question: Was Jack justified? To what extent? Did he handle the situation correctly or not? What would you have done?
Tsar of DDO
Caploxion
Posts: 454
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1/31/2014 12:51:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/31/2014 12:43:09 AM, YYW wrote:
I would like to offer the following idea up for your consideration... It's really, quite simple, but more controversial than I expected it would be when I asked this in another setting:

Suppose that one person, let's call him Jack, is a fairly strong guy. He's relatively tall, not extremely muscular, but fit and more than considerably stronger than Danny, who is smaller, and whom without doubt would loose considerably in a fight between Jack and Danny.

Jack and Danny are in a bar, and Jack makes an off color, but accurate, comment to Danny which was not meant maliciously but which deeply offended Danny, who consequently punches Jack in the chest. Jack, being relatively unscathed by Danny's aggression shrugs of Danny's hit and makes it clear that while he was willing to let this one go, if Danny did it again, there would be very real consequences.

Danny, having not hit Jack as hard as he believed he could, is even more offended by Jack's ultimatum and proceeds to punch Jack in the jaw, which causes Jack's lip to bleed. Jack punches Danny back, and Danny falls off his bar stool onto the ground. Jack looks at the ground, and turns to take another sip of his drink.

His pride hurt, Danny hits Jack with the bar stool in what would become a failed attempt to knock Jack unconscious. Danny, at this point, is acting without regard to his probability of winning an potential fight and is in this moment demonstrating that hurting Jack is at that point of more value to Danny than Danny's own personal safety. Realizing the extent of the escalation, and that Danny intends to continue attacking him until he incapacitates Danny, Jack hits Danny with enough force to knock Danny unconscious.

There are observers who attempted to break the fight up, but given Danny's actions, intervention of any meaningful sort would have come at great personal risk for both the bar-tender and other patrons. There are no other parties which could reasonably stop Danny from attacking Jack once Danny decided to hit Jack with the chair.

So, the question: Was Jack justified? To what extent? Did he handle the situation correctly or not? What would you have done?

It's fun watching you cry about things, YYW.
"That's what people do. They breed, and then their children breed, and then their children do it, and their children do it. But, have you ever asked why we do it?" - Jim 'Metamorphhh' Crawford

"There is no doubt that life is given us, not to be enjoyed, but to be overcome; to be got over." - Arthur Schopenhauer

"It's like building a broken building, repairing it and then saying that now I have value in doing so...but it didn't need to be broken in the first place." -Gary 'Inmendham' Mosher
YYW
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1/31/2014 12:56:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/31/2014 12:51:39 AM, Caploxion wrote:
It's fun watching you cry about things, YYW.

You know, I've left you alone since you've been back. But I can modify that approach, if you would like. This situation above has nothing to do with you, but if you want to make your life more unpleasant for the sake of making it unpleasant -I will be more than happy to oblige.

So, realize that this is me, telling you to walk away. But if you don't walk away, you know fully well what that choice will mean for you.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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1/31/2014 1:01:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Realize that you've got exactly one opportunity not to screw up on this site. But if you haven't learned your lesson from Airmax's more than generous decision to only ban you for a week, by all means do continue.
Tsar of DDO
Caploxion
Posts: 454
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1/31/2014 1:14:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/31/2014 12:56:23 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/31/2014 12:51:39 AM, Caploxion wrote:
It's fun watching you cry about things, YYW.

You know, I've left you alone since you've been back. But I can modify that approach, if you would like. This situation above has nothing to do with you, but if you want to make your life more unpleasant for the sake of making it unpleasant -I will be more than happy to oblige.

I think you're forgetting who made who ultimately cry last time. It was amusing to see you so flustered, writing paragraph after paragraph in whimpering anger, lol! Besides, I'm far more ready for your written assaults this time, so you're going to have to do better than, "rancorous b!tch".


So, realize that this is me, telling you to walk away. But if you don't walk away, you know fully well what that choice will mean for you.

What? What are you going to do to me? Please don't tell me that there's going to be trouble! I thought by taking a cheap-shot at you, in response to another long-winded semi-thesis of yours, we would be reconciling.
"That's what people do. They breed, and then their children breed, and then their children do it, and their children do it. But, have you ever asked why we do it?" - Jim 'Metamorphhh' Crawford

"There is no doubt that life is given us, not to be enjoyed, but to be overcome; to be got over." - Arthur Schopenhauer

"It's like building a broken building, repairing it and then saying that now I have value in doing so...but it didn't need to be broken in the first place." -Gary 'Inmendham' Mosher
Caploxion
Posts: 454
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1/31/2014 1:17:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/31/2014 1:01:02 AM, YYW wrote:
Realize that you've got exactly one opportunity not to screw up on this site. But if you haven't learned your lesson from Airmax's more than generous decision to only ban you for a week, by all means do continue.

You were very fortunate not to receive any punishment yourself, especially after you attempted to eviscerate my character, with slurs involving my mental health and general demeanor.
"That's what people do. They breed, and then their children breed, and then their children do it, and their children do it. But, have you ever asked why we do it?" - Jim 'Metamorphhh' Crawford

"There is no doubt that life is given us, not to be enjoyed, but to be overcome; to be got over." - Arthur Schopenhauer

"It's like building a broken building, repairing it and then saying that now I have value in doing so...but it didn't need to be broken in the first place." -Gary 'Inmendham' Mosher
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/31/2014 1:32:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think in that scenario they are all justified. They both now know that they can't mess with the other without facing physical damage. They have both been taught a lesson in respect.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/31/2014 1:36:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
On another note they were both given opportunities to deescalate the situation. So they are both responsible for the damage caused to them.
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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1/31/2014 2:38:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/31/2014 1:17:17 AM, Caploxion wrote:
At 1/31/2014 1:01:02 AM, YYW wrote:
Realize that you've got exactly one opportunity not to screw up on this site. But if you haven't learned your lesson from Airmax's more than generous decision to only ban you for a week, by all means do continue.

You were very fortunate not to receive any punishment yourself, especially after you attempted to eviscerate my character, with slurs involving my mental health and general demeanor.

It's always interesting who decides to keep talking to me. I'm actually a pretty friendly guy, for the most part.

I want you to know that what you saw from me before, isn't really all that significant. After all, most of it was via PM anyway. But hey, I guess it's not reasonable for me to expect you to know how I operate. Not yet, anyway.

We'll work on that.

I notice Infinite Jest is gone from your list of favorite books, and what's there instead is a more plausibly honest list.

But you can talk to me as long as you like, about you, about me, about DDO. I've even got some questions for you, Caploxion. Maybe you'll be willing to answer them. Or not. But I'll ask just in case you're wanting to.

Are you happy with the way you make decisions?

Why did you come back, after all that happened?

What do you want to gain from being here?

What impact do you predict interacting with me will have on you?

How would you describe your relationship with your parents?

What, if any, lessons did you learn from interacting with me in the past?

If you were able, how would you change the way you introduced yourself to this site?

What is more important to you: having the last word or being right?

How would your describe your ability to exercise good self control?

How do you draw the line between right and wrong?

What principles matter to you? What do you really care about?

Is there anything else you'd like to tell me, that I haven't asked about?
Tsar of DDO
Caploxion
Posts: 454
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1/31/2014 3:16:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/31/2014 2:38:21 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/31/2014 1:17:17 AM, Caploxion wrote:
At 1/31/2014 1:01:02 AM, YYW wrote:
Realize that you've got exactly one opportunity not to screw up on this site. But if you haven't learned your lesson from Airmax's more than generous decision to only ban you for a week, by all means do continue.

You were very fortunate not to receive any punishment yourself, especially after you attempted to eviscerate my character, with slurs involving my mental health and general demeanor.

It's always interesting who decides to keep talking to me. I'm actually a pretty friendly guy, for the most part.

I like how you work into your insults. You make it seem as if you're not insulting anyone.


I want you to know that what you saw from me before, isn't really all that significant. After all, most of it was via PM anyway. But hey, I guess it's not reasonable for me to expect you to know how I operate. Not yet, anyway.


We'll work on that.

Get to it already.


I notice Infinite Jest is gone from your list of favorite books, and what's there instead is a more plausibly honest list.

Honestly, I tried to read it, but I found it too hard and boring, so I skimmed through it very quickly. You could say that I've finished reading it, just not very closely.


But you can talk to me as long as you like, about you, about me, about DDO. I've even got some questions for you, Caploxion. Maybe you'll be willing to answer them. Or not. But I'll ask just in case you're wanting to.

Are you happy with the way you make decisions?

Very.


Why did you come back, after all that happened?

I have some unfinished business to take care of.


What do you want to gain from being here?

Many things, of which one involves you.


What impact do you predict interacting with me will have on you?

A highly entertaining one for anyone watching.


How would you describe your relationship with your parents?

Without love, I've done things that have disappointed them so much that they have literally told me that they do not love me anymore. Honestly, I'm ashamed that I've done some of those things too. Is that enough for you to sink your teeth into?


What, if any, lessons did you learn from interacting with me in the past?

Not to use a certain 'f' word.


If you were able, how would you change the way you introduced yourself to this site?

I wouldn't change a thing.


What is more important to you: having the last word or being right?

You think that I like having the last word, don't you? Being right is more important, but I do enjoy having the last word.


How would your describe your ability to exercise good self control?

It's pretty poor, as we both know. I'm getting better at not becoming angry, but when I do, I basically have no control over what I do/say.


How do you draw the line between right and wrong?

With my "dim" intelligence.


What principles matter to you? What do you really care about?

I have to be honest, as you can see with my answers.

I also think that I must defend myself when I am attacked. If I walk away from any kind of fight, I despise myself for quite awhile afterwards.


Is there anything else you'd like to tell me, that I haven't asked about?

No, the psychiatrist YYW is doing a fantastic job. Go on now, unload on me; let's see what happens this time.
"That's what people do. They breed, and then their children breed, and then their children do it, and their children do it. But, have you ever asked why we do it?" - Jim 'Metamorphhh' Crawford

"There is no doubt that life is given us, not to be enjoyed, but to be overcome; to be got over." - Arthur Schopenhauer

"It's like building a broken building, repairing it and then saying that now I have value in doing so...but it didn't need to be broken in the first place." -Gary 'Inmendham' Mosher
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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1/31/2014 3:34:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/31/2014 3:16:54 AM, Caploxion wrote:
At 1/31/2014 2:38:21 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/31/2014 1:17:17 AM, Caploxion wrote:
At 1/31/2014 1:01:02 AM, YYW wrote:
Realize that you've got exactly one opportunity not to screw up on this site. But if you haven't learned your lesson from Airmax's more than generous decision to only ban you for a week, by all means do continue.

You were very fortunate not to receive any punishment yourself, especially after you attempted to eviscerate my character, with slurs involving my mental health and general demeanor.

It's always interesting who decides to keep talking to me. I'm actually a pretty friendly guy, for the most part.

I like how you work into your insults. You make it seem as if you're not insulting anyone.

There wasn't any insult there, actually.


I want you to know that what you saw from me before, isn't really all that significant. After all, most of it was via PM anyway. But hey, I guess it's not reasonable for me to expect you to know how I operate. Not yet, anyway.


We'll work on that.

Get to it already.


I notice Infinite Jest is gone from your list of favorite books, and what's there instead is a more plausibly honest list.

Honestly, I tried to read it, but I found it too hard and boring, so I skimmed through it very quickly. You could say that I've finished reading it, just not very closely.

Of course.



But you can talk to me as long as you like, about you, about me, about DDO. I've even got some questions for you, Caploxion. Maybe you'll be willing to answer them. Or not. But I'll ask just in case you're wanting to.

Are you happy with the way you make decisions?

Very.

Even despite the fact that you recognize that you don't have much self control?



Why did you come back, after all that happened?

I have some unfinished business to take care of.

Oh, don't leve us in the dark! Do tell!



What do you want to gain from being here?

Many things, of which one involves you.

Only one? What do you want to accomplish with me? Vendetta? If that's what you want, might as well be candid about it.



What impact do you predict interacting with me will have on you?

A highly entertaining one for anyone watching.

I asked about the impact interacting with me would have on you, not others...



How would you describe your relationship with your parents?

Without love, I've done things that have disappointed them so much that they have literally told me that they do not love me anymore. Honestly, I'm ashamed that I've done some of those things too. Is that enough for you to sink your teeth into?

Sink my teeth? No. Not at all. We're just talking, Caploxion. Nothing more.



What, if any, lessons did you learn from interacting with me in the past?

Not to use a certain 'f' word.

Anything else?



If you were able, how would you change the way you introduced yourself to this site?

I wouldn't change a thing.

Because you're satisfied with the way people see you?



What is more important to you: having the last word or being right?

You think that I like having the last word, don't you? Being right is more important, but I do enjoy having the last word.

If I already knew the answer to the question, there would be very little point in asking the question.



How would your describe your ability to exercise good self control?

It's pretty poor, as we both know. I'm getting better at not becoming angry, but when I do, I basically have no control over what I do/say.

Do you think that's healthy for you? In the best interest of your wellbeing?



How do you draw the line between right and wrong?

With my "dim" intelligence.

That's not much of an answer, but that wasn't an easy question, either.


What principles matter to you? What do you really care about?

I have to be honest, as you can see with my answers.

I also think that I must defend myself when I am attacked. If I walk away from any kind of fight, I despise myself for quite awhile afterwards.

Under what circumstances do you feel like you're under attack?

Is there anything else you'd like to tell me, that I haven't asked about?

No, the psychiatrist YYW is doing a fantastic job. Go on now, unload on me; let's see what happens this time.

Unload? I think I have an idea of what you're saying, but I'm not interested in that. Not here, not now. No reason for that at all. I just want to get to know you. This is me, actively giving you a second chance, asking you questions and talking.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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1/31/2014 3:38:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The bar fight was a real situation, btw. I picked a friend of mine up tonight. The friend was the "Danny" in this situation. Jack, another friend of mine, explained what happened while Danny waited in the car with a possibly broken nose.

I've seen enough violence for the night, Caploxion. But I wouldn't have punched Danny, though.
Tsar of DDO
Caploxion
Posts: 454
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1/31/2014 3:59:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/31/2014 3:34:56 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/31/2014 3:16:54 AM, Caploxion wrote:
At 1/31/2014 2:38:21 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/31/2014 1:17:17 AM, Caploxion wrote:
At 1/31/2014 1:01:02 AM, YYW wrote:
Realize that you've got exactly one opportunity not to screw up on this site. But if you haven't learned your lesson from Airmax's more than generous decision to only ban you for a week, by all means do continue.

You were very fortunate not to receive any punishment yourself, especially after you attempted to eviscerate my character, with slurs involving my mental health and general demeanor.

It's always interesting who decides to keep talking to me. I'm actually a pretty friendly guy, for the most part.

I like how you work into your insults. You make it seem as if you're not insulting anyone.

There wasn't any insult there, actually.

Not there, but you were working into one.



I want you to know that what you saw from me before, isn't really all that significant. After all, most of it was via PM anyway. But hey, I guess it's not reasonable for me to expect you to know how I operate. Not yet, anyway.


We'll work on that.

Get to it already.


I notice Infinite Jest is gone from your list of favorite books, and what's there instead is a more plausibly honest list.

Honestly, I tried to read it, but I found it too hard and boring, so I skimmed through it very quickly. You could say that I've finished reading it, just not very closely.

Of course.



But you can talk to me as long as you like, about you, about me, about DDO. I've even got some questions for you, Caploxion. Maybe you'll be willing to answer them. Or not. But I'll ask just in case you're wanting to.

Are you happy with the way you make decisions?

Very.

Even despite the fact that you recognize that you don't have much self control?

They're my decisions in the end; they are an expression of who I am. I wish I had more self-control, sure, but most certainly not at the expense of losing my identity; and before you mention it, I am fully aware that I can have both, but that isn't the case at the moment.




Why did you come back, after all that happened?

I have some unfinished business to take care of.

Oh, don't leve us in the dark! Do tell!

I really fvcking hate that you got the better of me before I got banned. There wasn't a day during my ban that I didn't think about things you said to me. One way or another, I'm going to even the score.




What do you want to gain from being here?

Many things, of which one involves you.

Only one? What do you want to accomplish with me? Vendetta? If that's what you want, might as well be candid about it.

Yes, you could call it that. At the moment, you're easily the person that I hate the most.




What impact do you predict interacting with me will have on you?

A highly entertaining one for anyone watching.

I asked about the impact interacting with me would have on you, not others...

Yes, and I said a highly entertaining one; my impact would be highly entertaining. For me personally, in the future, I'm not sure.




How would you describe your relationship with your parents?

Without love, I've done things that have disappointed them so much that they have literally told me that they do not love me anymore. Honestly, I'm ashamed that I've done some of those things too. Is that enough for you to sink your teeth into?

Sink my teeth? No. Not at all. We're just talking, Caploxion. Nothing more.

C'mon, YYW. I'm ready for it.




What, if any, lessons did you learn from interacting with me in the past?

Not to use a certain 'f' word.

Anything else?

Nup.




If you were able, how would you change the way you introduced yourself to this site?

I wouldn't change a thing.

Because you're satisfied with the way people see you?

Not entirely, but this is who I am and what I do. I would prefer that people liked me, but I'm not going to compromise my identity.




What is more important to you: having the last word or being right?

You think that I like having the last word, don't you? Being right is more important, but I do enjoy having the last word.

If I already knew the answer to the question, there would be very little point in asking the question.

You've commented on this habit before, implying that you think I do enjoy having the last word at all costs. Anyway, I answered the question.




How would your describe your ability to exercise good self control?

It's pretty poor, as we both know. I'm getting better at not becoming angry, but when I do, I basically have no control over what I do/say.

Do you think that's healthy for you? In the best interest of your wellbeing?

Not really, but it's not the worst thing. I can't help it, not at the moment at least.




How do you draw the line between right and wrong?

With my "dim" intelligence.

That's not much of an answer, but that wasn't an easy question, either.

In my opinion, things can be seen as right/wrong via analysing the intent and action simultaneously.



What principles matter to you? What do you really care about?

I have to be honest, as you can see with my answers.

I also think that I must defend myself when I am attacked. If I walk away from any kind of fight, I despise myself for quite awhile afterwards.

Under what circumstances do you feel like you're under attack?

When you call me nasty things with the obvious intent to defame me, like "rancorous b!tch".


Is there anything else you'd like to tell me, that I haven't asked about?

No, the psychiatrist YYW is doing a fantastic job. Go on now, unload on me; let's see what happens this time.

Unload? I think I have an idea of what you're saying, but I'm not interested in that. Not here, not now. No reason for that at all. I just want to get to know you. This is me, actively giving you a second chance, asking you questions and talking.

Second chance? I don't want one. I want to get back at you without resorting to calling you that word, which I admit was the wrong thing to do. I'm ready for your personal attacks, so have at it when you're ready.
"That's what people do. They breed, and then their children breed, and then their children do it, and their children do it. But, have you ever asked why we do it?" - Jim 'Metamorphhh' Crawford

"There is no doubt that life is given us, not to be enjoyed, but to be overcome; to be got over." - Arthur Schopenhauer

"It's like building a broken building, repairing it and then saying that now I have value in doing so...but it didn't need to be broken in the first place." -Gary 'Inmendham' Mosher
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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1/31/2014 9:21:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/31/2014 12:51:39 AM, Caploxion wrote:

It's fun watching you cry about things, YYW.

What is the point of this comment?
To me, this is you bullying him, which is hypocritical given your stance on bullying.

There is no need to address him, especially given your two's history.
This thread is clearly not about you in any way, unless you tried to hack YYW's computer or something.

Stop derailing threads with your presence, please.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
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1/31/2014 9:27:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/31/2014 12:43:09 AM, YYW wrote:
I would like to offer the following idea up for your consideration... It's really, quite simple, but more controversial than I expected it would be when I asked this in another setting:

Suppose that one person, let's call him Jack, is a fairly strong guy. He's relatively tall, not extremely muscular, but fit and more than considerably stronger than Danny, who is smaller, and whom without doubt would loose considerably in a fight between Jack and Danny.

Jack and Danny are in a bar, and Jack makes an off color, but accurate, comment to Danny which was not meant maliciously but which deeply offended Danny, who consequently punches Jack in the chest. Jack, being relatively unscathed by Danny's aggression shrugs of Danny's hit and makes it clear that while he was willing to let this one go, if Danny did it again, there would be very real consequences.

Danny, having not hit Jack as hard as he believed he could, is even more offended by Jack's ultimatum and proceeds to punch Jack in the jaw, which causes Jack's lip to bleed. Jack punches Danny back, and Danny falls off his bar stool onto the ground. Jack looks at the ground, and turns to take another sip of his drink.

His pride hurt, Danny hits Jack with the bar stool in what would become a failed attempt to knock Jack unconscious. Danny, at this point, is acting without regard to his probability of winning an potential fight and is in this moment demonstrating that hurting Jack is at that point of more value to Danny than Danny's own personal safety. Realizing the extent of the escalation, and that Danny intends to continue attacking him until he incapacitates Danny, Jack hits Danny with enough force to knock Danny unconscious.

There are observers who attempted to break the fight up, but given Danny's actions, intervention of any meaningful sort would have come at great personal risk for both the bar-tender and other patrons. There are no other parties which could reasonably stop Danny from attacking Jack once Danny decided to hit Jack with the chair.

So, the question: Was Jack justified? To what extent? Did he handle the situation correctly or not? What would you have done?

As you describe it, Jack was justified. He made a comment between friends, tried to de-escalate the situation (perhaps poor choices of words he made), then ended it. At no point did he use more force than was necessary to accomplish the desired effect.

Danny, I think may have been justified a bit, given this hurtful (off color might not mean what I think it means) comment, since as friends, it may have been unexpected (depends on the context of the comment). However, Danny's pride being hurt is no excuse to escalate to punching in the face.

I may have walked away, but since I wasn't at fault (and will likely never be Jack in a Jack vs. Danny situation) I may have stayed.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
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1/31/2014 9:31:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/31/2014 1:36:35 AM, Wylted wrote:
On another note they were both given opportunities to deescalate the situation. So they are both responsible for the damage caused to them.

Interesting. It seems only one caused any real damage (broken lip, broken bar stool).
Why should Jack be responsible for it?

Also, why do you think Danny was justified in throwing the first two punches?
If I say you are a womanizing cheater, and it is true, is that grounds to attack me?
My work here is, finally, done.
EndarkenedRationalist
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1/31/2014 9:34:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Caploxion, you're not descending down a pretty road. You're trying to instigate a fight with YYW. You two should just end this feud already. It reflects poorly on the DDO community. Just forgive each other, or at least treat each other civilly/ignore each other.
YYW
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1/31/2014 10:42:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/31/2014 3:59:29 AM, Caploxion wrote:
At 1/31/2014 3:34:56 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/31/2014 3:16:54 AM, Caploxion wrote:
At 1/31/2014 2:38:21 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/31/2014 1:17:17 AM, Caploxion wrote:
At 1/31/2014 1:01:02 AM, YYW wrote:
Realize that you've got exactly one opportunity not to screw up on this site. But if you haven't learned your lesson from Airmax's more than generous decision to only ban you for a week, by all means do continue.

You were very fortunate not to receive any punishment yourself, especially after you attempted to eviscerate my character, with slurs involving my mental health and general demeanor.

It's always interesting who decides to keep talking to me. I'm actually a pretty friendly guy, for the most part.

I like how you work into your insults. You make it seem as if you're not insulting anyone.

There wasn't any insult there, actually.

Not there, but you were working into one.

Not really. Caploxion, you should know by now that if I want to insult someone, I do it directly.

Even despite the fact that you recognize that you don't have much self control?

They're my decisions in the end; they are an expression of who I am. I wish I had more self-control, sure, but most certainly not at the expense of losing my identity; and before you mention it, I am fully aware that I can have both, but that isn't the case at the moment.

And why us that?

Why did you come back, after all that happened?

I have some unfinished business to take care of.

Oh, don't leve us in the dark! Do tell!

I really fvcking hate that you got the better of me before I got banned. There wasn't a day during my ban that I didn't think about things you said to me. One way or another, I'm going to even the score.

Interesting.

What do you want to gain from being here?

Many things, of which one involves you.

Only one? What do you want to accomplish with me? Vendetta? If that's what you want, might as well be candid about it.

Yes, you could call it that. At the moment, you're easily the person that I hate the most.

What does "vendetta" look like, in your mind? Having me banned?

What impact do you predict interacting with me will have on you?

A highly entertaining one for anyone watching.

I asked about the impact interacting with me would have on you, not others...

Yes, and I said a highly entertaining one; my impact would be highly entertaining. For me personally, in the future, I'm not sure.

Do you think you will personally benefit from talking to me?

C'mon, YYW. I'm ready for it.

I don't know why you think I would do that here and now. This is just a conversation. Nothing hostile here, from my end, at least.

If you were able, how would you change the way you introduced yourself to this site?

I wouldn't change a thing.

Because you're satisfied with the way people see you?

Not entirely, but this is who I am and what I do. I would prefer that people liked me, but I'm not going to compromise my identity.

You've suggested that twice now. What does "compromising your identity" mean, to you?

How would your describe your ability to exercise good self control?

It's pretty poor, as we both know. I'm getting better at not becoming angry, but when I do, I basically have no control over what I do/say.

Do you think that's healthy for you? In the best interest of your wellbeing?

Not really, but it's not the worst thing. I can't help it, not at the moment at least.

Would you say that on balance, you have more problems in your life than good things?

How do you draw the line between right and wrong?

With my "dim" intelligence.

That's not much of an answer, but that wasn't an easy question, either.

In my opinion, things can be seen as right/wrong via analysing the intent and action simultaneously.

Do you think you know my intent here? What is it?

Under what circumstances do you feel like you're under attack?

When you call me nasty things with the obvious intent to defame me, like "rancorous b!tch".

I actually never explicitly called you a "rancorous b!tch" in the open forums. I said you were acting like a rancorous b!tch, and in doing so describing your behavior. If people are more than their actions, then it likewise could not be implied that I meant that you were a "rancorous b!tch" either. The distinction is significant.

Is there anything else you'd like to tell me, that I haven't asked about?

No, the psychiatrist YYW is doing a fantastic job. Go on now, unload on me; let's see what happens this time.

Unload? I think I have an idea of what you're saying, but I'm not interested in that. Not here, not now. No reason for that at all. I just want to get to know you. This is me, actively giving you a second chance, asking you questions and talking.

Second chance? I don't want one. I want to get back at you without resorting to calling you that word, which I admit was the wrong thing to do. I'm ready for your personal attacks, so have at it when you're ready.

I'm not going to attack you, Caploxion. Whether you just want to fight with me or not, I'm not going to attack you. The reason is because to do so would be wrong, and it would achieve no good -much in the same way that your seeking "revenge" against me will do you no good.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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1/31/2014 10:44:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/31/2014 9:34:43 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Caploxion, you're not descending down a pretty road. You're trying to instigate a fight with YYW. You two should just end this feud already. It reflects poorly on the DDO community. Just forgive each other, or at least treat each other civilly/ignore each other.

It's not a feud, because there is only one party who is out to fight.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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1/31/2014 10:46:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/31/2014 9:21:37 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 1/31/2014 12:51:39 AM, Caploxion wrote:

It's fun watching you cry about things, YYW.

What is the point of this comment?
To me, this is you bullying him, which is hypocritical given your stance on bullying.

Yeah, that's her, trying to do just that.

Stop derailing threads with your presence, please.

This is the sort of thing that we'll have to deal with. I'm not concerned about it.
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Such
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1/31/2014 11:51:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Jack is an @sshole and Danny is a b!tch, obviously. It's a collision between two immature people with problems dealing with their emotions.
bsh1
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1/31/2014 12:07:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
From a self-defense perspective, and perhaps a utilitarian one, Jack was justified in his actions.
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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Such
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1/31/2014 12:16:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/31/2014 12:07:24 PM, bsh1 wrote:
From a self-defense perspective, and perhaps a utilitarian one, Jack was justified in his actions.

How can you think that? Jack clearly instigated a confrontation in the first place, with no regard to the insecurities he clearly knew he incited in Danny.
Mirza
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1/31/2014 12:57:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/31/2014 12:16:52 PM, Such wrote:
How can you think that? Jack clearly instigated a confrontation in the first place, with no regard to the insecurities he clearly knew he incited in Danny.
He has NO right to use physical force as a response. Plenty of things can offend someone, and none of it should warrant a physical response.
Mirza
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1/31/2014 1:05:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/31/2014 1:32:42 AM, Wylted wrote:
I think in that scenario they are all justified.
No, explain why offending someone justifies a physical response. Where do you draw the line to what is offensive enough to justify a physical attack? Offending someone's religion? Commenting on his bad fashion?

They both now know that they can't mess with the other without facing physical damage.
That doesn't explain why Danny is justified in hitting Jack.

They have both been taught a lesson in respect.
Oh well, maybe your next post will be more interesting.
bsh1
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1/31/2014 1:27:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/31/2014 12:16:52 PM, Such wrote:
At 1/31/2014 12:07:24 PM, bsh1 wrote:
From a self-defense perspective, and perhaps a utilitarian one, Jack was justified in his actions.

How can you think that? Jack clearly instigated a confrontation in the first place, with no regard to the insecurities he clearly knew he incited in Danny.

1. You're falsely assuming that the Jack meant to insult Danny.
2. No verbal insult can justify a physical attack as a response.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/31/2014 1:43:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/31/2014 1:05:09 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 1/31/2014 1:32:42 AM, Wylted wrote:
I think in that scenario they are all justified.
No, explain why offending someone justifies a physical response. Where do you draw the line to what is offensive enough to justify a physical attack? Offending someone's religion? Commenting on his bad fashion?


I perceived the original hit to be just an immature physical response to the off color remark. If that's the case then Jack should make it clear, that sort of behavior won't be tolerated. Jack instead of making that point instead chooses to challenge Danny. Danny's next attack was justified because the challange was a direct invitation for violence. Sure Danny's initial response was probably over the line, but the next response was certainly justified, even if excessive. At each point somebody did something wrong.

They both now know that they can't mess with the other without facing physical damage.
That doesn't explain why Danny is justified in hitting Jack.


The attack teaches Jack to show Danny some respect. You can argue his method was extreme or wrong, but the fact is if Danny wants respect then he should address every situation where he is disrespected. Allowing himself to be the butt of all his friend's jokes isn't a good way to gain respect.

They have both been taught a lesson in respect.
Oh well, maybe your next post will be more interesting.

Jack was wrong for making the offensive remark. ( mild wrong )

Then Danny was wrong for the mild punch to Jack's chest. ( mild wrong )

Then Jack was wrong for the direct challenge. ( big wrong )

Then every resulting action is justified. Danny is right to accept a challenge, and Jack is right to defend himself. ( all right)

I'm sure alcohal was a big influence on both of their actions, and both took steps that escalated the situation uneccesarily. It seems like nobody was majorly hurt by this altercation, so my guess is they will both permanently learn to respect each other a lot more. So ultimately it's probably a good thing for their friendship

Once Danny buys Jack a beer and gives him a hug and they both apologize, like is typical after these types of things with friends, then their friendship will be even stronger.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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1/31/2014 1:46:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/31/2014 1:43:07 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2014 1:05:09 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 1/31/2014 1:32:42 AM, Wylted wrote:
I think in that scenario they are all justified.
No, explain why offending someone justifies a physical response. Where do you draw the line to what is offensive enough to justify a physical attack? Offending someone's religion? Commenting on his bad fashion?


I perceived the original hit to be just an immature physical response to the off color remark. If that's the case then Jack should make it clear, that sort of behavior won't be tolerated. Jack instead of making that point instead chooses to challenge Danny. Danny's next attack was justified because the challange was a direct invitation for violence. Sure Danny's initial response was probably over the line, but the next response was certainly justified, even if excessive. At each point somebody did something wrong.

So, what you're saying is, you are justified if punching me because you took offense to something I said?
I am saying you are wrong now, are you going to punch me in the stomach?
My work here is, finally, done.