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The "Nice Guy"

BigDave80
Posts: 105
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2/8/2014 4:54:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I've been researching the idea of the "Nice Guy". Basically, the theory goes, girls don't like guys who are nice (for dating). Because of this, they "friendzone" nice guys and date guys who are "jerks".

This seemed like a vast oversimplification to me that didn't really describe the dating world very well. So, I researched the opposing side. Feminists argued quite vehemently against the "Nice Guy" theory. They argued that, in fact, the "Nice Guy" theory is a misogynistic concept that posits that girls owe any guy who is nice to them sex. Contrary to being nice, the argument goes, "Nice Guys" are misogynists.

This theory also struck me as vastly oversimplified and not representative of reality. My own thoughts on the matter see the "Nice Guy" conundrum (or the related "Friendzoning)") as a combination of naivete on the part of the "Nice Guy" and lack of understanding of a guy's emotions on the part of the girl.

Girls, it seems, are often genuinely oblivious to the fact that the males they are friends with are attracted to them. These nice guys, on the other hand, have an unrealistic view of dating. Yes, girls often say they want to date the nicest guy, but they instead go for good looking and high status guys.

Nice guys misinterpret this as meaning girls like jerks. That is not correct. Instead, niceness doesn't matter that much when it comes to mate selection. Guys (nice guys included) tend to pick girls based on attractiveness and it is truly sexist to expect girls to be less "shallow".

Before you start hating on the nice guys, though, you need to put yourself in their shoes. When a girl that thinks they are nice rejects them, the girl is essentially saying that she doesn't think you are good enough for her (unless she has a boyfriend or something). Even if she doesn't mean this, guys, understandibly, interpret this that way.

It's not misogynistic to be upset that somebody who you thought you had a connection with actually finds you to be inadequate in some way.

Of course, girls have no obligation to date guys they don't find to be good enough. But, it is undeniably true that there are cases of girls "leading guys on" for emotional support without physical connection.

In summary, this situation really needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis instead of generalizations.
Jack212
Posts: 572
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2/10/2014 4:20:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 4:54:47 PM, BigDave80 wrote:


Girls do like nice guys, they just don't like wussies. If a "nice guy" is consistently getting rejected, it's because he needs to grow a pair.

The "friend zone" is when one person wants a romantic relationship and the other just wants a platonic one. This can happen to either gender. Being in the friend zone can be rough, which is why it often screws up friendships.

Feminists don't understand any of this, and conclude that "getting friend zoned" means "I only wanted sex and don't value them as a person". If being the object of somebody's unrequited love is really that repulsive to you, you should friend zone them as early as possible. If they're really nice guys/girls, they'll accept this and not let feelings form. If they're jerks, they won't be friends with you in the first place and you'll have saved yourself the hassle.
BigDave80
Posts: 105
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2/10/2014 7:27:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/10/2014 4:20:11 PM, Jack212 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 4:54:47 PM, BigDave80 wrote:


Girls do like nice guys, they just don't like wussies. If a "nice guy" is consistently getting rejected, it's because he needs to grow a pair.

I agree, but "niceness" is low on most women's list of priorities in men.


The "friend zone" is when one person wants a romantic relationship and the other just wants a platonic one. This can happen to either gender. Being in the friend zone can be rough, which is why it often screws up friendships.

Agreed.


Feminists don't understand any of this, and conclude that "getting friend zoned" means "I only wanted sex and don't value them as a person". If being the object of somebody's unrequited love is really that repulsive to you, you should friend zone them as early as possible. If they're really nice guys/girls, they'll accept this and not let feelings form. If they're jerks, they won't be friends with you in the first place and you'll have saved yourself the hassle.

Ya, feminists really don't get the whole "friendzoning" thing. They need to realize that not every social phenom falls neatly into their worldview of sexism being behind everything.

The friendzone is much more humiliating and degrading for the person being friendzoned than the person friendzoning. Not that the friendzoner has any obligation to date anyone... they don't. But, they should at least have some symphony instead of getting mad at a person for having feelings for them.
Jack212
Posts: 572
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2/11/2014 4:58:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/10/2014 7:27:00 PM, BigDave80 wrote:
At 2/10/2014 4:20:11 PM, Jack212 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 4:54:47 PM, BigDave80 wrote:


Girls do like nice guys, they just don't like wussies. If a "nice guy" is consistently getting rejected, it's because he needs to grow a pair.



I agree, but "niceness" is low on most women's list of priorities in men.

Actually, it's pretty high on the list for both genders, according to the majority of surveys. It's usually referred to by a more descriptive synonym, though. Like I said, women want strong men. If it's a choice between a strong jerk and a weak "nice guy", the jerk will often win. Considering that humanity has spent most of its history living a hunter-gatherer lifestyle, it's not surprising that this preference occurs (a strong jerk can protect and provide better than a weak "nice guy"). However, a strong "nice guy" is usually preferable to a strong jerk, because who wants to date a jerk?
BigDave80
Posts: 105
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2/11/2014 8:33:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/11/2014 4:58:37 PM, Jack212 wrote:
At 2/10/2014 7:27:00 PM, BigDave80 wrote:
At 2/10/2014 4:20:11 PM, Jack212 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 4:54:47 PM, BigDave80 wrote:


Girls do like nice guys, they just don't like wussies. If a "nice guy" is consistently getting rejected, it's because he needs to grow a pair.



I agree, but "niceness" is low on most women's list of priorities in men.

Actually, it's pretty high on the list for both genders, according to the majority of surveys. It's usually referred to by a more descriptive synonym, though. Like I said, women want strong men. If it's a choice between a strong jerk and a weak "nice guy", the jerk will often win. Considering that humanity has spent most of its history living a hunter-gatherer lifestyle, it's not surprising that this preference occurs (a strong jerk can protect and provide better than a weak "nice guy"). However, a strong "nice guy" is usually preferable to a strong jerk, because who wants to date a jerk?

On surveys, nice does rank high. But, in the dating world, what women say they want and what they actually go for seem to be different.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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2/12/2014 10:19:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
It really depends on the girl and what she is looking for.
If she is looking for a wild, no strings attached time, a nice guy is not ideal.
If she is looking for a blossoming friendship and a true relationship with security and marriage and kids, then a nice guy is likely more ideal.

So, in other words, yeah, nice guys are friends in the dating years, but jerks don't often keep relationships. So, nice guys come out ahead after college years.
My work here is, finally, done.
GodChoosesLife
Posts: 3,461
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2/12/2014 10:30:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Guys that are too nice are suspicious to me. Guys that are not nice don't even have my attention. But I don't date either way. Rather just choose to whom I make my friend and who not to make my friend. But I'm friendly to everyone either way.
Better than deserved, as ALWAYS.
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"Suffering is unimaginably confusing, but it's a way to be drawn closer to God" ~Me
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BigDave80
Posts: 105
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2/19/2014 10:20:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 10:19:35 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
It really depends on the girl and what she is looking for.
If she is looking for a wild, no strings attached time, a nice guy is not ideal.
If she is looking for a blossoming friendship and a true relationship with security and marriage and kids, then a nice guy is likely more ideal.

So, in other words, yeah, nice guys are friends in the dating years, but jerks don't often keep relationships. So, nice guys come out ahead after college years.

Maybe, but girls should just admit that they like jerks up until college is over.
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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2/19/2014 11:08:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The friendzone was invented by a$$holes who couldn't handle that a girl won't do him in return for his kindness. Or to make her look bad for having preferences he doesn't fall into.
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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2/20/2014 7:27:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/19/2014 11:08:24 PM, donald.keller wrote:
The friendzone was invented by a$$holes who couldn't handle that a girl won't do him in return for his kindness. Or to make her look bad for having preferences he doesn't fall into.

No, that's not true one bit.
I worked as a cook at a cafe in a pool hall, and there was this overweight "nice" supervisor. All the waitresses were friends with him, told him gossip, inviting him over. Why? Because he was a teddy bear. Fat people are usually nice, after all.

However, a funny thing happened. He lost weight, a LOT of weight, and his demeanor didn't seem to appear much; however, the ladies didn't want to hang out with him anymore. Why? Because he was a threat.

Women can box men into the friend zone that they perceive as not a threat, for whatever reason (nerd, weight, age, etc.). However, once that threat is neutralized, the friend zone goes away, and you are left in the dust.
The threat being either: threat of becoming attracted to, or threat of them losing interest in you (i.e. finding another girl to pine over).
My work here is, finally, done.