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Supporting the Troops

SkepticalStardust
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2/20/2014 9:45:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Why is "supporting the troops" so dogmatic in the U.S.? It's as if enlisting in the military suddenly grants service members a higher status. If I were to accept that the military is a heroic organization, then it still doesn't follow that any of the members of the military are heroic. I don't dislike service members for being service members, but I don't hold them on a pedestal. There are great and horrible people in the military. It's social suicide to say this kind of thing in the U.S., but I don't support the troops simply because they're in the military. I support people on an individual basis, not by their job.

How do you feel about this?
I'd like to know why you agree or disagree.
That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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2/21/2014 2:23:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/20/2014 9:45:19 PM, SkepticalStardust wrote:
Why is "supporting the troops" so dogmatic in the U.S.? It's as if enlisting in the military suddenly grants service members a higher status. If I were to accept that the military is a heroic organization, then it still doesn't follow that any of the members of the military are heroic. I don't dislike service members for being service members, but I don't hold them on a pedestal. There are great and horrible people in the military. It's social suicide to say this kind of thing in the U.S., but I don't support the troops simply because they're in the military. I support people on an individual basis, not by their job.

How do you feel about this?
I'd like to know why you agree or disagree.

I'm with you brother, a 100%. Check out these posts of mine, I think you'll rather enjoy them.

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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2/22/2014 1:03:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/20/2014 9:45:19 PM, SkepticalStardust wrote:
Why is "supporting the troops" so dogmatic in the U.S.? It's as if enlisting in the military suddenly grants service members a higher status. If I were to accept that the military is a heroic organization, then it still doesn't follow that any of the members of the military are heroic. I don't dislike service members for being service members, but I don't hold them on a pedestal. There are great and horrible people in the military. It's social suicide to say this kind of thing in the U.S., but I don't support the troops simply because they're in the military. I support people on an individual basis, not by their job.

How do you feel about this?
I'd like to know why you agree or disagree.

If you sign up for the military, you are brave beyond anyone else. Not just the whole fighting thing (which they know the consequences of, like PTSD, and still join) but also enduring the physical training... I could never endure Basic Training.

The difference between stupid and bravery, is intentions. Anyone who can endure that training without quitting deserves my respect.

A big reason for it is how hippies treated soldiers back then.
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charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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2/22/2014 2:16:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/22/2014 1:03:10 AM, donald.keller wrote:
At 2/20/2014 9:45:19 PM, SkepticalStardust wrote:
Why is "supporting the troops" so dogmatic in the U.S.? It's as if enlisting in the military suddenly grants service members a higher status. If I were to accept that the military is a heroic organization, then it still doesn't follow that any of the members of the military are heroic. I don't dislike service members for being service members, but I don't hold them on a pedestal. There are great and horrible people in the military. It's social suicide to say this kind of thing in the U.S., but I don't support the troops simply because they're in the military. I support people on an individual basis, not by their job.

How do you feel about this?
I'd like to know why you agree or disagree.

... but also enduring the physical training... I could never endure Basic Training.

...Anyone who can endure that training without quitting deserves my respect.

The process of earning a Hell's Angel patch is also pretty darn grueling, does becoming a motorcycle gang member therefore merit your respect?

A big reason for it is how hippies treated soldiers back then.

Yes, guilt about the insensitivity of 60s-era anti-war protesters to veterans traumatized by their participation in Viet Nam has been used quite effectively to program the American public with the current mindless and amoral Support-the-troops groupthink. A bit of putridly patriotic pro-military groupthink that is indeed very serviceable when the political and plutocratic powers that be decide to aggress against another Third-World people in pursuit of their own selfish special interests (i.e. whenever the members of America's military are reduced to functioning as killers for the elite).
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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2/22/2014 2:26:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/22/2014 2:16:07 AM, charleslb wrote:
At 2/22/2014 1:03:10 AM, donald.keller wrote:
At 2/20/2014 9:45:19 PM, SkepticalStardust wrote:
Why is "supporting the troops" so dogmatic in the U.S.? It's as if enlisting in the military suddenly grants service members a higher status. If I were to accept that the military is a heroic organization, then it still doesn't follow that any of the members of the military are heroic. I don't dislike service members for being service members, but I don't hold them on a pedestal. There are great and horrible people in the military. It's social suicide to say this kind of thing in the U.S., but I don't support the troops simply because they're in the military. I support people on an individual basis, not by their job.

How do you feel about this?
I'd like to know why you agree or disagree.

... but also enduring the physical training... I could never endure Basic Training.

...Anyone who can endure that training without quitting deserves my respect.

The process of earning a Hell's Angel patch is also pretty darn grueling, does becoming a motorcycle gang member therefore merit your respect?

No... Because 1) that's not bravery... That's stupidity. And 2) Having sh!t poured on you once isn't even in the ballpark in comparison to months of hard (and at times, dangerous) training and years are active service.

A big reason for it is how hippies treated soldiers back then.

Yes, guilt about the insensitivity of 60s-era anti-war protesters to veterans traumatized by their participation in Viet Nam has been used quite effectively to program the American public with the current mindless and amoral Support-the-troops groupthink. A bit of putridly patriotic pro-military groupthink that is indeed very serviceable when the political and plutocratic powers that be decide to aggress against another Third-World people in pursuit of their own selfish special interests (i.e. whenever the members of America's military are reduced to functioning as killers for the elite).

Amoral? I see... You're one of those hate-the-troops hippies... Well one of those "killers' is the current DDO President and one of our most respected and caring members. So you call him a "killer for the elite", you will be torn apart like the hippie crap you are.
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charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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2/22/2014 2:49:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/22/2014 2:26:12 AM, donald.keller wrote:
At 2/22/2014 2:16:07 AM, charleslb wrote:
At 2/22/2014 1:03:10 AM, donald.keller wrote:
At 2/20/2014 9:45:19 PM, SkepticalStardust wrote:
Why is "supporting the troops" so dogmatic in the U.S.? It's as if enlisting in the military suddenly grants service members a higher status. If I were to accept that the military is a heroic organization, then it still doesn't follow that any of the members of the military are heroic. I don't dislike service members for being service members, but I don't hold them on a pedestal. There are great and horrible people in the military. It's social suicide to say this kind of thing in the U.S., but I don't support the troops simply because they're in the military. I support people on an individual basis, not by their job.

How do you feel about this?
I'd like to know why you agree or disagree.

... but also enduring the physical training... I could never endure Basic Training.

...Anyone who can endure that training without quitting deserves my respect.

The process of earning a Hell's Angel patch is also pretty darn grueling, does becoming a motorcycle gang member therefore merit your respect?

No... Because 1) that's not bravery... That's stupidity.

And the decision to enlist in the military is not frequently made by naive and stupid kids for ill-advised and moronically macho reasons?

And 2) Having sh!t poured on you once isn't even in the ballpark in comparison to months of hard (and at times, dangerous) training and years are active service.

There's a bit more to the "prospecting" process, and it does in fact take some real toughness and stick-to-itiveness, so should we therefore admire Hell's Angels?

A big reason for it is how hippies treated soldiers back then.

Yes, guilt about the insensitivity of 60s-era anti-war protesters to veterans traumatized by their participation in Viet Nam has been used quite effectively to program the American public with the current mindless and amoral Support-the-troops groupthink. A bit of putridly patriotic pro-military groupthink that is indeed very serviceable when the political and plutocratic powers that be decide to aggress against another Third-World people in pursuit of their own selfish special interests (i.e. whenever the members of America's military are reduced to functioning as killers for the elite).

Amoral? I see... You're one of those hate-the-troops hippies... Well one of those "killers' is the current DDO President and one of our most respected and caring members. So you call him a "killer for the elite", you will be torn apart like the hippie crap you are.

I'll let the mentality expressed here speak for and condemn itself.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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2/22/2014 2:55:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/22/2014 2:49:14 AM, charleslb wrote:
At 2/22/2014 2:26:12 AM, donald.keller wrote:
At 2/22/2014 2:16:07 AM, charleslb wrote:
At 2/22/2014 1:03:10 AM, donald.keller wrote:
At 2/20/2014 9:45:19 PM, SkepticalStardust wrote:
Why is "supporting the troops" so dogmatic in the U.S.? It's as if enlisting in the military suddenly grants service members a higher status. If I were to accept that the military is a heroic organization, then it still doesn't follow that any of the members of the military are heroic. I don't dislike service members for being service members, but I don't hold them on a pedestal. There are great and horrible people in the military. It's social suicide to say this kind of thing in the U.S., but I don't support the troops simply because they're in the military. I support people on an individual basis, not by their job.

How do you feel about this?
I'd like to know why you agree or disagree.

... but also enduring the physical training... I could never endure Basic Training.

...Anyone who can endure that training without quitting deserves my respect.
"

The process of earning a Hell's Angel patch is also pretty darn grueling, does becoming a motorcycle gang member therefore merit your respect?

No... Because 1) that's not bravery... That's stupidity.

And the decision to enlist in the military is not frequently made by naive and stupid kids for ill-advised and moronically macho reasons?

No. It's not. It's usually made by people who know they need to get their life in order. Of course, only an idiot would generalize all soldiers as joining for (conveniently for you) stupid reasons without actually knowing why they sign up.

And 2) Having sh!t poured on you once isn't even in the ballpark in comparison to months of hard (and at times, dangerous) training and years are active service.

There's a bit more to the "prospecting" process, and it does in fact take some real toughness and stick-to-itiveness, so should we therefore admire Hell's Angels?

No. Having crap poured on you by your own decision is hardly as bad. It hardy even begins to compare to countless years of service and hard training, mixed with spending the rest of your life never getting hired and living with PTSD.

A big reason for it is how hippies treated soldiers back then.

Yes, guilt about the insensitivity of 60s-era anti-war protesters to veterans traumatized by their participation in Viet Nam has been used quite effectively to program the American public with the current mindless and amoral Support-the-troops groupthink. A bit of putridly patriotic pro-military groupthink that is indeed very serviceable when the political and plutocratic powers that be decide to aggress against another Third-World people in pursuit of their own selfish special interests (i.e. whenever the members of America's military are reduced to functioning as killers for the elite).

Amoral? I see... You're one of those hate-the-troops hippies... Well one of those "killers' is the current DDO President and one of our most respected and caring members. So you call him a "killer for the elite", you will be torn apart like the hippie crap you are.

I'll let the mentality expressed here speak for and condemn itself.

My mentality towards a$$holes like you represents nothing about how I will or should feel about other groups of people. Generalizing a person's mentality is moronic at best.
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Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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2/22/2014 3:49:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/22/2014 1:03:10 AM, donald.keller wrote:
If you sign up for the military, you are brave beyond anyone else.

How so? Even assuming that some of America's previous wars were necessary, it is readily apparent that the ones we're currently engaged in are wrong from most any standard you'd care to apply. Defending your country is brave. Oppressing people in foreign countries isn't.

Not just the whole fighting thing (which they know the consequences of, like PTSD, and still join) but also enduring the physical training... I could never endure Basic Training.

The difference between stupid and bravery, is intentions. Anyone who can endure that training without quitting deserves my respect.

You may not think Charles's Hell's Angels comparison is accurate, but that's likely because it seems you're unable to analyze this discussion in a rational manner. Being able to endure grueling trials is not something that should grant respect by default regardless of one's intentions.

I would even go as far as to say that being an active duty soldier in the US military is more evil than being a Hell's Angel.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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2/22/2014 4:08:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm glad that others feel the same way. It's like troops are viewed as elites, while many are just your average redneck.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
SkepticalStardust
Posts: 117
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2/22/2014 6:09:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/22/2014 1:03:10 AM, donald.keller wrote:
At 2/20/2014 9:45:19 PM, SkepticalStardust wrote:
Why is "supporting the troops" so dogmatic in the U.S.? It's as if enlisting in the military suddenly grants service members a higher status. If I were to accept that the military is a heroic organization, then it still doesn't follow that any of the members of the military are heroic. I don't dislike service members for being service members, but I don't hold them on a pedestal. There are great and horrible people in the military. It's social suicide to say this kind of thing in the U.S., but I don't support the troops simply because they're in the military. I support people on an individual basis, not by their job.

How do you feel about this?
I'd like to know why you agree or disagree.

If you sign up for the military, you are brave beyond anyone else. Not just the whole fighting thing (which they know the consequences of, like PTSD, and still join) but also enduring the physical training... I could never endure Basic Training.

The difference between stupid and bravery, is intentions. Anyone who can endure that training without quitting deserves my respect.


It's not as difficult as I'm assuming you think it is. Obviously there's incredibly tough physical training to become a Marine Corps sniper, Navy seal, Army ranger, etc., but the initial training for the branches is largely a mental challenge. Even with that, you can get by pretty easily if you stay unnoticed.

Either way, similar things could be said about the military of Nazi Germany. I'm not saying U.S. service members are like Nazi Germany service members, but they both seem to meet the qualifications for your respect.

A big reason for it is how hippies treated soldiers back then.

How they were treated is unacceptable. My opinion of support goes both ways. I won't support someone simply because they're in the military and I won't hate them simply because they're in the military.

Anyway, the way service members used to be treated has nothing to do with how we should treat people now. My ancestors owned slaves, but that doesn't mean I should carry the burden of their wrongdoings.
That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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2/22/2014 6:57:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/22/2014 3:49:12 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 2/22/2014 1:03:10 AM, donald.keller wrote:
If you sign up for the military, you are brave beyond anyone else.

How so? Even assuming that some of America's previous wars were necessary, it is readily apparent that the ones we're currently engaged in are wrong from most any standard you'd care to apply. Defending your country is brave. Oppressing people in foreign countries isn't.

Not just the whole fighting thing (which they know the consequences of, like PTSD, and still join) but also enduring the physical training... I could never endure Basic Training.

The difference between stupid and bravery, is intentions. Anyone who can endure that training without quitting deserves my respect.

You may not think Charles's Hell's Angels comparison is accurate, but that's likely because it seems you're unable to analyze this discussion in a rational manner. Being able to endure grueling trials is not something that should grant respect by default regardless of one's intentions.

Thank you.


I would even go as far as to say that being an active duty soldier in the US military is more evil than being a Hell's Angel.

I agree.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
SkepticalStardust
Posts: 117
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3/29/2014 5:28:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm bumping this thread to see if anyone has any new thoughts on the topic.
That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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3/30/2014 4:34:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/20/2014 9:45:19 PM, SkepticalStardust wrote:
Why is "supporting the troops" so dogmatic in the U.S.? It's as if enlisting in the military suddenly grants service members a higher status. If I were to accept that the military is a heroic organization, then it still doesn't follow that any of the members of the military are heroic. I don't dislike service members for being service members, but I don't hold them on a pedestal. There are great and horrible people in the military. It's social suicide to say this kind of thing in the U.S., but I don't support the troops simply because they're in the military. I support people on an individual basis, not by their job.

How do you feel about this?
I'd like to know why you agree or disagree.

As a member of the military, I will tell you plainly that there is a double edged sword to this.

First, there is the positive side. It true, signing up for the military is a hard choice. You will be separated from friends and family, you will be sent into places that dangerous and unfriendly. Its a life that can be sacrificial and selfless. Those who take this choice, and it is a difficult one, are to commended for the service.

Second, there is a massive danger to putting any organization, particularly one tied to power, on a pedestal. This has prevented, IMHO, America from holding it military leaders and the resulting policies accountable in MANY cases. Let me give you an example:

a. Stewardship. Do you know any organization that field and acquisition process that spend billions of dollars and a lost never produces at contract at cost? Actually, there is no exception, all major acquisition processes go billions of dollars over budget. This taken with a shrug be Americans when, in the days of dwindling public money, this should be an outrage.

Do we need six different geographic combatant commands? Do we need to divide up the globe into different managerial centers that suck up resources and manpower and then compete for the same, dwindling, amount of actual military hardware. We spent BILLIONS growing new forces for the ground wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the first thing cut after the war were the number of Brigades - not the management thereof.

I could get into some details, that the military's management system of rotating leaders every couple of years all but guarantees this result in both acquisition and management, but that is more in depth discussion. The point being that wasting billions of dollars ... is largely going unnoticed - for reasons I cannot fathom.

b. Lets face it, not everyone who joins the military is an idealist and prone to moral behavior. There are plenty of people drawn by the promise of hierarchal power (and the military's struggles with toxic leadership bear this out), and in some cases simple violence.

Rather than have a critical discussion, because the OP is correct, many communities simply establish policies that become hostile toward Soldiers who misbehave. The areas around military bases are often far less supportive of troops than are those further away. The military has begun cracking down on this behavior, but our recruitment and training programs lag well behind the ethical and moral desired in almost all cases.

The 19 year old who wishes to be he strong defending the weak rather than the 19 year old who just wants to be a machismo tough guy remains an elusive prospect. Our unquestioned pedestal prompting has prevented discussion about what the military should desire in its Service Members.

c. Military Justice. Its different. The recent cases of sexual assault have belatedly prompted Congressional review of the UCMJ processes. The system is rife with conflicts of interests, with the same guy that rates your future in the military as the guy that also determines guilt or innocence. Is there anyone who even remotely thinks that having your boss examine allegations of criminal conduct, even false ones, will not adversely impact your rating?

Worse, given that your boss also wants to be promoted, its ridiculous to even think that the commander's decisions are not influenced by a desire to please the boss rather than on the merits of the case.

It is exactly these shortcomings and conflict of interests that have allowed sexual assault to flourish, and we fool ourselves if we think that this process is failing with rape but doing a fine job with every other aspect of justice. The same conflicts of interest create many cases of injustice.

Yet there appears to be wide spread support to NOT change this system? Based on ... ???

d. Policy. The recent conduct of our services in 12 years of war is getting little or no attention in the press or in America writ large. There is a reason that so many of our boys are returning home with PTSD and other issues, and there appears to be a hand wave mentality to the reasoning. There have always ben psychological consequences to war and killing, but the amount of death in our current wars (we took as many dead in single battles in WWII) do not account for the sheer numbers of 'damaged' Soldiers returning home.

I will tell you bluntly, that Soldiers, in most cases, struggling with these issues do so because of questionable moral states they were put into. We have not always been good guys in the areas we occupied, sometimes breeding the very insurgency we were struggling to put down. And yet, rather than acknowledge these mistakes, and correct them, that same conflict of interest above prevents many of these issues from being disclosed. Its why the military has such an adversarial relationship with the Press.

They will come out, as Service Members deal with the realities of what they were exposed to, and it will be the Soldiers and Marine thrust into the middle of this that reminds America that it needs to question.

In the meantime, there is precious little talk about what our military is doing. Is it a good idea to be shooting missiles into Yemen? Can we brand anything a terrorist threat and justify killing now?

And yet I ask everyone this question, if a SWAT team came in an knocked over the wrong house, thinking it was drug dealers, and killed a bunch of innocent people, would we accept it? Would we accept merely blowing up a house full of drug dealers rather than the use of legally restrained police forces to arrest, try and convict them?

America in general seem to believe that simply committing troops makes the policy 'correct', and even if they disagree, it makes questioning the policy very difficult.

As someone who has participated in the events that we have been thrust into, I can tell you plainly that the decision to commit troops is something that should be done with the utmost care and consideration. The question SHOULD be asked, "Is this important enough to spill blood over."

Sometimes that is No.

Sometimes that is Yes.

It should be an informed, judicious process however.

With billions of resources and thousands of lives at stake, the discussion here should not be through the prism of perfection but hard realism.
Kanti
Posts: 115
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3/31/2014 6:24:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago

First, there is the positive side. It true, signing up for the military is a hard choice. You will be separated from friends and family, you will be sent into places that dangerous and unfriendly. Its a life that can be sacrificial and selfless. Those who take this choice, and it is a difficult one, are to commended for the service.

Second, there is a massive danger to putting any organization, particularly one tied to power, on a pedestal. This has prevented, IMHO, America from holding it military leaders and the resulting policies accountable in MANY cases. Let me give you an example:


Thank you for this response. It's thoughtful, and it's the first attempt to understand the complexity of this issue.

First, I'm going to put myself out there. My family is currently stationed in Europe. I've had to stay behind to continue my education. This also gives me a unique insight I think the poster is missing.

You can attempt to minimize the sacrifice of the military members, and their family, but you're going to experience a backlash. Why? Because as humans we empathize. You come off as cold, heartless, and willfully ignorant if you don't recognize the high degree of sacrifice these families make. This "support the troops" slogan may have some ulterior motive to get you to support military policies you don't agree with forcing you to become compliant with them them therefore never holding the policymakers leaders accountable.

That's a sharp deviation from the intended holistic interpretation of the slogan. Ultimately it's way of saying to the communities that during deployment the military family goes through a very tough period and need your support.
'
They have a son/daughter in South Korea, and there unit has had a lot suicides. They;re at a very low point in their deployment, and they needs some cheering up. So the community sends him/her a care package. Their high school friends call them to cheer them up, and give them company during the tough period.

They have a father/husband in Iraq. The kids are depressed and need a role model who can take them out to do some fun things because the mother is working, maintaining a household, and raising 3 kids and just doesn't have the energy or time. A local family picks them up on the way to the local pizza parlor, or a cousin takes to the park once a week.

The wife gets a flat tire, and she has to choose between food or getting a tire for her vehicle. If she doesn't get a tire she can't go to work. If she does get the tire her kids eat ramen noodles for breakfast, and dinner the next 4 days, but a local church member brings her 2 bags full of groceries.

Support your troops is simply an acknowledgement of the sacrifice the families make, and a call to help subsidize this sacrifice by sympathizing. You can try to diminish this sacrifice, but you can't deny the state of emotional and financial vulnerability of both the service member in a hostile environment, and the family who has flesh and blood in a combat zone.

It's not about money either. It's about opening up a small moment of your day for someone who is going through a tough time. Do you object to that?
Linkish1O2
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3/31/2014 8:28:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
dont care about it and i am in the military.
"I am a mystery and to unlock the mystery at my core, one must simply embrace slendermans hug with no fear."- me

"I hearby declare myself a phantom in the darkness."-me
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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3/31/2014 9:52:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/20/2014 9:45:19 PM, SkepticalStardust wrote:
Why is "supporting the troops" so dogmatic in the U.S.? It's as if enlisting in the military suddenly grants service members a higher status. If I were to accept that the military is a heroic organization, then it still doesn't follow that any of the members of the military are heroic. I don't dislike service members for being service members, but I don't hold them on a pedestal. There are great and horrible people in the military. It's social suicide to say this kind of thing in the U.S., but I don't support the troops simply because they're in the military. I support people on an individual basis, not by their job.

How do you feel about this?
I'd like to know why you agree or disagree.

Patriotism is cheaper and easier than sacrifice. Much of America are "PINOs", patriots in name only. Biggest PINO is George W Bush. This is a bi-partisan assessment.

Besides this, the US is currently in a state of quasi-martial law post 9/11. You don't challenge military authority during such a state.

Is this going to change? Doubtful. The more tenuous Pax Americana becomes, the more overtly militarized the US will become.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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3/31/2014 10:24:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 9:52:55 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/20/2014 9:45:19 PM, SkepticalStardust wrote:
Why is "supporting the troops" so dogmatic in the U.S.? It's as if enlisting in the military suddenly grants service members a higher status. If I were to accept that the military is a heroic organization, then it still doesn't follow that any of the members of the military are heroic. I don't dislike service members for being service members, but I don't hold them on a pedestal. There are great and horrible people in the military. It's social suicide to say this kind of thing in the U.S., but I don't support the troops simply because they're in the military. I support people on an individual basis, not by their job.

How do you feel about this?
I'd like to know why you agree or disagree.

Patriotism is cheaper and easier than sacrifice. Much of America are "PINOs", patriots in name only. Biggest PINO is George W Bush. This is a bi-partisan assessment.

Just to make it clear why I think this way, slide #3:

http://www.newamerica.net...

Three words - profligate debt boom. This, in the middle of a war.

Besides this, the US is currently in a state of quasi-martial law post 9/11. You don't challenge military authority during such a state.

Is this going to change? Doubtful. The more tenuous Pax Americana becomes, the more overtly militarized the US will become.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
OliveJuice
Posts: 23
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4/13/2014 8:00:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/20/2014 9:45:19 PM, SkepticalStardust wrote:
Why is "supporting the troops" so dogmatic in the U.S.? It's as if enlisting in the military suddenly grants service members a higher status. If I were to accept that the military is a heroic organization, then it still doesn't follow that any of the members of the military are heroic. I don't dislike service members for being service members, but I don't hold them on a pedestal. There are great and horrible people in the military. It's social suicide to say this kind of thing in the U.S., but I don't support the troops simply because they're in the military. I support people on an individual basis, not by their job.

How do you feel about this?
I'd like to know why you agree or disagree.

Agreed, and my brother is a US Marine. If I were to openly state that I don't support the troops or think that they are better than other people, it really would be social suicide.
.Innocence is news to me.