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Global Solutions to Current Economic System

Daxden
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3/3/2014 4:12:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Today we live in a society where a few people at the top print money supplies for nations which then charge interest to people who actually have to work for a living. No matter what the monopoly banks will always have more than someone who actually works. Money is just a means of exchange but currently is fiat (fake) and is continually being devalued. We have a limited amount of resources and a limited amount of needs as well. How does it make sense to then have an unlimited money supply? How can we effectively fix this parasitic system? Ideas?
Dax.
nummi
Posts: 294
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3/3/2014 7:04:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Remove money, remove idiots from rule. Put people with an objective and capable mind to leadership (none of the present "leaders" meet this fundamental requirement). Stop teaching idiotic values to people, begin teaching the right values to people.
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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3/3/2014 8:52:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/3/2014 7:04:48 AM, nummi wrote:
Remove money, remove idiots from rule. Put people with an objective and capable mind to leadership (none of the present "leaders" meet this fundamental requirement). Stop teaching idiotic values to people, begin teaching the right values to people.

Who decides what "idiotic values" are? Who decides who is objective and capable?
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nummi
Posts: 294
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3/3/2014 10:27:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/3/2014 8:52:19 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 3/3/2014 7:04:48 AM, nummi wrote:
Remove money, remove idiots from rule. Put people with an objective and capable mind to leadership (none of the present "leaders" meet this fundamental requirement). Stop teaching idiotic values to people, begin teaching the right values to people.

Who decides what "idiotic values" are? Who decides who is objective and capable?
With absolute certainty, not you. Nor most of humanity.
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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3/3/2014 7:10:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/3/2014 10:27:32 AM, nummi wrote:
At 3/3/2014 8:52:19 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 3/3/2014 7:04:48 AM, nummi wrote:
Remove money, remove idiots from rule. Put people with an objective and capable mind to leadership (none of the present "leaders" meet this fundamental requirement). Stop teaching idiotic values to people, begin teaching the right values to people.

Who decides what "idiotic values" are? Who decides who is objective and capable?
With absolute certainty, not you. Nor most of humanity.

Then who?
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nummi
Posts: 294
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3/3/2014 8:38:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/3/2014 7:10:01 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 3/3/2014 10:27:32 AM, nummi wrote:
At 3/3/2014 8:52:19 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 3/3/2014 7:04:48 AM, nummi wrote:
Remove money, remove idiots from rule. Put people with an objective and capable mind to leadership (none of the present "leaders" meet this fundamental requirement). Stop teaching idiotic values to people, begin teaching the right values to people.

Who decides what "idiotic values" are? Who decides who is objective and capable?
With absolute certainty, not you. Nor most of humanity.

Then who?
Humans smart enough, like me for one.
ben2974
Posts: 767
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3/4/2014 12:41:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/3/2014 8:38:07 PM, nummi wrote:
At 3/3/2014 7:10:01 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 3/3/2014 10:27:32 AM, nummi wrote:
At 3/3/2014 8:52:19 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 3/3/2014 7:04:48 AM, nummi wrote:
Remove money, remove idiots from rule. Put people with an objective and capable mind to leadership (none of the present "leaders" meet this fundamental requirement). Stop teaching idiotic values to people, begin teaching the right values to people.

Who decides what "idiotic values" are? Who decides who is objective and capable?
With absolute certainty, not you. Nor most of humanity.

Then who?
Humans smart enough, like me for one.

this guy... (or kid?)
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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3/4/2014 8:07:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/3/2014 8:38:07 PM, nummi wrote:
At 3/3/2014 7:10:01 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 3/3/2014 10:27:32 AM, nummi wrote:
At 3/3/2014 8:52:19 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 3/3/2014 7:04:48 AM, nummi wrote:
Remove money, remove idiots from rule. Put people with an objective and capable mind to leadership (none of the present "leaders" meet this fundamental requirement). Stop teaching idiotic values to people, begin teaching the right values to people.

Who decides what "idiotic values" are? Who decides who is objective and capable?
With absolute certainty, not you. Nor most of humanity.

Then who?
Humans smart enough, like me for one.

And who decides the criteria for "smart enough"?

And once these "smart enough" people are ruling the world, what is to guarantee that they will not become tyrants?

And since you are so smart, let's start hammering out solutions for the war in Syria and the crisis in Ukraine. Tell us, how do we fix these problems?
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nummi
Posts: 294
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3/4/2014 12:02:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 8:07:02 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 3/3/2014 8:38:07 PM, nummi wrote:
At 3/3/2014 7:10:01 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 3/3/2014 10:27:32 AM, nummi wrote:
At 3/3/2014 8:52:19 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 3/3/2014 7:04:48 AM, nummi wrote:
Remove money, remove idiots from rule. Put people with an objective and capable mind to leadership (none of the present "leaders" meet this fundamental requirement). Stop teaching idiotic values to people, begin teaching the right values to people.

Who decides what "idiotic values" are? Who decides who is objective and capable?
With absolute certainty, not you. Nor most of humanity.

Then who?
Humans smart enough, like me for one.

And who decides the criteria for "smart enough"?
Those who lack it by simply being who they are, where they are. Plenty of examples, just look at present "leaders". People with such characteristics don't meet the requirements.
Those who meet the requirements intrinsically tend to not want "leadership". Funny how that is...

And once these "smart enough" people are ruling the world, what is to guarantee that they will not become tyrants?
"Smart enough" already rules out being a tyrant...

And since you are so smart, let's start hammering out solutions for the war in Syria and the crisis in Ukraine. Tell us, how do we fix these problems?
Syria and Ukraine, same causes as everywhere. Money and the values it teaches people, religion and the not thinking it teaches people. As well teaching people to follow since birth without teaching critical thinking, as a result they know to follow and condemn everything that goes against that following mentality. Then leaders who live for money, hoard it, and enforce their idiotic laws that make them even "richer". Etc. Simple really, to see what is wrong, and why.
To fixing them. Have to teach people the right things, make them aware of the true situation, would take decades probably - this would have to be rather aggressive, as governments are corrupted and opted to living for money, just like corporations; they would oppose teaching people with even physical force. People aware enough, then a revolution, impossible without bloodshed or an enforcing factor. Morons would simply have to be forced out of the way by whatever means necessary. Then for a time it would/should probably be a dictatorship like state - the transition period where matters are fixed, rules are set, true leaders are chosen, when a new course is set.

To put it shortly and roughly.
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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3/4/2014 12:41:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 12:02:16 PM, nummi wrote:
At 3/4/2014 8:07:02 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 3/3/2014 8:38:07 PM, nummi wrote:
At 3/3/2014 7:10:01 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 3/3/2014 10:27:32 AM, nummi wrote:
At 3/3/2014 8:52:19 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 3/3/2014 7:04:48 AM, nummi wrote:
Remove money, remove idiots from rule. Put people with an objective and capable mind to leadership (none of the present "leaders" meet this fundamental requirement). Stop teaching idiotic values to people, begin teaching the right values to people.

Who decides what "idiotic values" are? Who decides who is objective and capable?
With absolute certainty, not you. Nor most of humanity.

Then who?
Humans smart enough, like me for one.

And who decides the criteria for "smart enough"?
Those who lack it by simply being who they are, where they are. Plenty of examples, just look at present "leaders". People with such characteristics don't meet the requirements.
Those who meet the requirements intrinsically tend to not want "leadership". Funny how that is...

So then, what are the requirements? And what happens when, as you say, most of humanity are too dumb to recognize them and they disagree?


And once these "smart enough" people are ruling the world, what is to guarantee that they will not become tyrants?
"Smart enough" already rules out being a tyrant...

One can be perfectly intelligent and yet evil. Remember this point, as I will point out a perfect example of later,


And since you are so smart, let's start hammering out solutions for the war in Syria and the crisis in Ukraine. Tell us, how do we fix these problems?
Syria and Ukraine, same causes as everywhere. Money and the values it teaches people, religion and the not thinking it teaches people.

What are the values that are taught to people by money? Second, have you ever been to Syria? Have you ever spoken to Syrians? Are you aware of the occurrences there? If so, how do you get your information?

As well teaching people to follow since birth without teaching critical thinking, as a result they know to follow and condemn everything that goes against that following mentality.

Can you illustrate an example of this "following mentality"? Can you illustrate how you do not have this "following mentality", and are instead a "critical thinker"?

Then leaders who live for money, hoard it, and enforce their idiotic laws that make them even "richer". Etc. Simple really, to see what is wrong, and why.
To fixing them. Have to teach people the right things, make them aware of the true situation, would take decades probably

What is the true situation that these people would be taught? Who would do the teaching? Would they go decades in this situation while they are being taught?

- this would have to be rather aggressive, as governments are corrupted and opted to living for money, just like corporations; they would oppose teaching people with even physical force. People aware enough, then a revolution, impossible without bloodshed or an enforcing factor.

Are you stating that the only way to stop this killing is with more killing? Is this mentality not the problem to begin with?

Morons would simply have to be forced out of the way by whatever means necessary.

Do you propose to oppress and suppress people because they disagree with you, and are hence designated morons? This explicitly goes against your assertion earlier, that these people will be too smart to commit tyranny.

Then for a time it would/should probably be a dictatorship like state - the transition period where matters are fixed, rules are set, true leaders are chosen, when a new course is set.

How long would this transition period be? What rules will be set? Who will choose the leaders, and who will be chosen? What is the new course that will be set?


To put it shortly and roughly.
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charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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3/5/2014 2:12:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/3/2014 4:12:36 AM, Daxden wrote:
Today we live in a society where a few people at the top print money supplies for nations which then charge interest to people who actually have to work for a living. No matter what the monopoly banks will always have more than someone who actually works. Money is just a means of exchange but currently is fiat (fake) and is continually being devalued. We have a limited amount of resources and a limited amount of needs as well. How does it make sense to then have an unlimited money supply? How can we effectively fix this parasitic system? Ideas?

Good post, good points, good question. I won't attempt to hijack your thread, I'll merely refer you to my recent post in the economics section, here's the link, http://www.debate.org...
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
nummi
Posts: 294
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3/5/2014 11:57:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 12:41:28 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
So then, what are the requirements?
That you even have to ask...

And what happens when, as you say, most of humanity are too dumb to recognize them and they disagree?
If things got done right most humans would be for the change, not against.

"Smart enough" already rules out being a tyrant...
One can be perfectly intelligent and yet evil. Remember this point, as I will point out a perfect example of later,
Then that one is not intelligent/smart enough. I'm not talking about some ability to solve puzzles as games, or solve some mathematical equations.

What are the values that are taught to people by money?
Really? You can't see it on your own?
Second, have you ever been to Syria?
Irrelevant.
Have you ever spoken to Syrians?
Irrelevant.
Are you aware of the occurrences there?
Irrelevant.
If so, how do you get your information?
Fundamentally, it's all the same everywhere. In some places more emphasis on one quality, other places more emphasis on another. Otherwise the same values dominate everywhere. You really cannot miss, only by the emphasis.

Can you illustrate an example of this "following mentality"?
Easy. In fact, just look at yourself. The best example for you.
You ever heard of people parroting money is good and a moneyless society can never work. Even though a moneyless society has never even been tried. And then those same parroting morons say they value evidence, facts, empiricism...

Have you ever been to school? Sure you have. By the book, grades by the book. If you want to do something your way, to find your way, you get a bad grade, no matter how well it was done, because it wasn't done by the book. If not by the book then you "fail". I sure do remember this from school, from beginning to finish. I bet you have no idea what this kind of brainwashing does to a person. You are taught to follow, not think independently or critically.
All these rules and texts they make you learn word for word, not realizing its not the words that matter, it's the concept behind them, the unworded one.

Ever heard people say "law says so, that's why", or any equivalent? Do I have to explain this too?

And so so so many more.

That you even ask... shows you are a "follower". But you should answer these questions yourself. Followers don't question what they follow, they only question when their "following" allows it, and condemn or ignore or avoid everything that goes against their "following". I bet you will condemn and ignore what I've said, without giving absolutely any true justification.

Can you illustrate how you do not have this "following mentality", and are instead a "critical thinker"?
How many have you encountered with views/mentality similar to mine? Not many, right?
How many have you encountered with views/mentality similar to yours? Take a pick, it's really hard to miss.

I say money is bad, that it should be removed. I've said things about health. About religion. Etc. Why would I oppose what is generally regarded as true while all those conventional "truths" are never questioned by the people who hold them as true? Because I question them, I see the flaws, the lies, and I see that most people do not question anything - they just follow. I see the lies, the contradictions with reality. You merely have to compare objectively.

Isn't it funny how those who have questioned and still question and criticize established ways are always condemned without investigating why they question and criticize in the first place? It's like people are brainwashed, indoctrinated to smother critical thinking. And you ask how I know? It's dead obvious! Just stop avoiding and ignoring, it's all it takes to see.

Why don't you ask yourself why are things the way they are? Doesn't matter how they are, just ask yourself, and answer to yourself. Do not refer to any previously made up concepts and ideas and such, because they will bias your questions and answers.

What is the true situation that these people would be taught?
How can you be so blind? (Indoctrination... in full effect.) You have eyes, look for yourself.

Who would do the teaching? Would they go decades in this situation while they are being taught?
This is pathetic, you aren't even trying to exert your mind toward the answers yourself. Sorry, but I do not do all the thinking for you. You have a brain, you have a mind, then use it!
You are specifically avoiding thinking about things, thinking in directions, that go against your indoctrination!

Are you stating that the only way to stop this killing is with more killing? Is this mentality not the problem to begin with?
Really? This dumb?
Will the present corrupt leaders go away voluntarily? No! They have money, they have indoctrinated and brainwashed people who live for money, they have weapons... Do I have to explain further? There are no alternatives to get them out of the way!

Reasons matter, not actions.

You do realize there is a transition period from fvcked-up to not-fvcked-up? You do realize when dealing with something of such significance, any means are good means as long as in the long run everything will be fixed and better?
If you still have trouble understanding something so simple. Think of two groups, one a thousand large, the other a billion large. The big group is all sick and will eventually die, taking with the smaller. All out extinction. Unless. The small group destroys, kills, the big group, and in the long run the species survives. If killing is the only way, the only safe way, without risking everyone, then that's what must be done.

Do you propose to oppress and suppress people because they disagree with you, and are hence designated morons?
This has nothing to do with disagreement, it has everything to do with actual reality.

This explicitly goes against your assertion earlier, that these people will be too smart to commit tyranny.
No, it's you who is incapable of understanding.
Anyway, why are you bringing tyranny into this? It has nothing to do with any of it. I am not talking about morons ruling people, as it as well presently is. I am not talking about tyranny, never was.

How long would this transition period be?
Decades. First several years to a few decades the hardest.

What rules will be set?
That you even have to ask...
What determines right and wrong, what is right and wrong? Are present rules in accordance with these?

Who will choose the leaders, and who will be chosen?
When it is made obvious that current ways are not working, and why they are not working, choosing leaders would be easy. Just have to avoid morons who talk round and round without addressing what really matters.
Easiest would be looking toward those who criticize present established ways. Even better if those who are suffering under present established ways, because they know firsthand what is wrong and why. They have motivation to think and fix, to make it all better and ensure it will remain so for as long as possible.

What is the new course that will be set?
Dictated by the new values and rules. These would be the new course.
What is wrong with present ways? Do you see? And why are matters wrong? Do you see?
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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3/6/2014 8:12:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/5/2014 11:57:41 AM, nummi wrote:
At 3/4/2014 12:41:28 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
So then, what are the requirements?
That you even have to ask...

This is a legitimate question. What are the requirements for leadership under your worldview?

If things got done right most humans would be for the change, not against.

But you just said that most of humanity are not smart enough to recognize the truth.

Then that one is not intelligent/smart enough. I'm not talking about some ability to solve puzzles as games, or solve some mathematical equations.

Here you are contradicting yourself. First you say that morons must be suppressed by whatever means necessary, now you say that whoever does that isn't smart enough. Which is it?

Really? You can't see it on your own?

You just said that I am a "follower" and that I am too blind to see any of this. Why do you expect me to see it then?

Second, have you ever been to Syria?
Irrelevant.

Relevant.

Irrelevant.

Relevant

Irrelevant.

Relevant.

Fundamentally, it's all the same everywhere. In some places more emphasis on one quality, other places more emphasis on another. Otherwise the same values dominate everywhere. You really cannot miss, only by the emphasis.

I am literally laughing at you right now. The same everywhere? Is there no end to your ignorance?


Can you illustrate an example of this "following mentality"?
Easy. In fact, just look at yourself. The best example for you.

Have you ever been to school? Sure you have. By the book, grades by the book. If you want to do something your way, to find your way, you get a bad grade, no matter how well it was done, because it wasn't done by the book. If not by the book then you "fail". I sure do remember this from school, from beginning to finish. I bet you have no idea what this kind of brainwashing does to a person. You are taught to follow, not think independently or critically.

Your mistake here, my friend, is that you assume. Let me tell you a little about myself, so that you fall into this again.
I have never been to elementary, middle, or highschool. Public or otherwise. I am entirely self educated, I grew up studying things my own way, on my own time, solving my own problems. To say that I am brainwashed by the system is incredibly ignorant, as I have never been in the system to begin with. Between the two of us then, by your own words, who has been exposed to more brainwashing?

Second, you my say that in this case I have no claim to education. Au contrair, by demonstrating superior problem solving skills and intuition, I was accepted into a college honors program at age 14, and one month later I had a degree from Cambridge University, thanks to my ability to simply take a final exam and get a course credit without even studying. My officially ranked IQ is 180. Now, I am only twenty years old, yet a professional biologist and I am working on my third college degree.

And by the way, college? No such thing as "by the book" answers, not the courses I took. We were forced to come up with our own solutions, our own ways, by working with The experts, not under Them.

Tell me, who is more likely to have been indoctrinated by the public school system, me or you?

Who is more likely to be informed and knowledgeable of the world around us, me or you?

Bu the way, the whole "solving crisis" thing? I was in the Middle East during the Arab spring. I was there. I saw what happened. I saw why it happened. Don't you dare say that all these conflicts are the same.


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PotBelliedGeek
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3/6/2014 8:30:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Can you illustrate how you do not have this "following mentality", and are instead a "critical thinker"?
How many have you encountered with views/mentality similar to mine? Not many, right?

A huge amount, and all of you are the same.

How many have you encountered with views/mentality similar to yours? Take a pick, it's really hard to miss.

Very few. You do not know what I think about these issues. All I have done is ask questions, I never offered commentary or my own view. Don't assume.

I say money is bad, that it should be removed. I've said things about health. About religion. Etc. Why would I oppose what is generally regarded as true while all those conventional "truths" are never questioned by the people who hold them as true? Because I question them, I see the flaws, the lies, and I see that most people do not question anything - they just follow. I see the lies, the contradictions with reality. You merely have to compare objectively.

There are flaws, no doubt. There will always be flaws. But for you, it has gone overboard. The system you propose has already been tried repeatedly, and it failed.

Isn't it funny how those who have questioned and still question and criticize established ways are always condemned without investigating why they question and criticize in the first place? It's like people are brainwashed, indoctrinated to smother critical thinking. And you ask how I know? It's dead obvious! Just stop avoiding and ignoring, it's all it takes to see.

No my friend, those who question are not condemned. To question the established norm and seek better methods is the redeeming quality of mankind, and I despise the "follower" as much as you do. The reason you are condemned is not because of your questions, it is because of your assertions. You have no reliable evidence to back up anything you say. Present evidence, and you will be hailed Asa hero, otherwise, you are just another mentally challenged loudmouth.

Why don't you ask yourself why are things the way they are? Doesn't matter how they are, just ask yourself, and answer to yourself. Do not refer to any previously made up concepts and ideas and such, because they will bias your questions and answers.

In case you have yet to realize this, I ask myself these questions for a living. I have been doing it a lot longer than you have.


What is the true situation that these people would be taught?
How can you be so blind? (Indoctrination... in full effect.) You have eyes, look for yourself.

You have already made the assertion that most people are too dumb to see. Therefore we must be taught.

Who would do the teaching? Would they go decades in this situation while they are being taught?
This is pathetic, you aren't even trying to exert your mind toward the answers yourself. Sorry, but I do not do all the thinking for you. You have a brain, you have a mind, then use it!
You are specifically avoiding thinking about things, thinking in directions, that go against your indoctrination!

I have already answered these questions for myself. I just want to know what your answers are.

Are you stating that the only way to stop this killing is with more killing? Is this mentality not the problem to begin with?
Really? This dumb?
Will the present corrupt leaders go away voluntarily? No! They have money, they have indoctrinated and brainwashed people who live for money, they have weapons... Do I have to explain further? There are no alternatives to get them out of the way!

You obviously have no concept of current events. That mentality is why people started these wars in the first place.

Reasons matter, not actions.

Ah, an objective nihilist. Possibly a relative egotist. My contempt for you has just turned into hate.



Do you propose to oppress and suppress people because they disagree with you, and are hence designated morons?
This has nothing to do with disagreement, it has everything to do with actual reality.

And what is reality? How do you know that it is reality and not deception?


This explicitly goes against your assertion earlier, that these people will be too smart to commit tyranny.
No, it's you who is incapable of understanding.
Anyway, why are you bringing tyranny into this? It has nothing to do with any of it. I a talking about morons ruling people, as it as well presently is. I am not talking about tyranny, never was.

The system you propose leads to tyranny, it always will and it always has.


How long would this transition period be?
Decades. First several years to a few decades the hardest.

That you even have to ask...
What determines right and wrong, what is right and wrong? Are present rules in accordance with these?

Good question. I recommend that you do some reading in philosophical ethics. This might help you answer the question.


Who will choose the leaders, and who will be chosen?
When it is made obvious that current ways are not working, and why they are not working, choosing leaders would be easy. Just have to avoid morons who talk round and round without addressing what really matters.
Easiest would be looking toward those who criticize present established ways. Even better if those who are suffering under present established ways, because they know firsthand what is wrong and why. They have motivation to think and fix, to make it all better and ensure it will remain so for as long as possible.

Anyone can criticize the established ways. Who decides if they are right or not?

Dictated by the new values and rules. These would be the new course.
What is wrong with present ways? Do you see? And why are matters wrong?

The is plenty wrong, we are not discussing that. We are discussing methods of solving these issues.
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nummi
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3/7/2014 4:33:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This is a legitimate question. What are the requirements for leadership under your worldview?
I said what I said for the obvious reason that if you even have to ask it means you are shutting your eye to everything that's wrong. That you are condoning all the unnecessary wrongs done by leaders themselves, dictated by their greed and obsessions and stupidity. And/or you are blaming something that's not the real cause.

I could tell you the requirements. But they are so obvious... the reason I will leave it to your own mind to come up with - something you so persistently don't seem to want to do.

But you just said that most of humanity are not smart enough to recognize the truth.
Concentrate on "If things got done right<" real hard. You don't get it? first you "educate" people, enough people, then they'll see for themselves. Truth is, most people around me, just average "normal" people, do see that things are wrong, just wrong, and they don't know what to do and they are too afraid to do anything, laws are threatening them, as are the values they are used to living with, and so they don't even think in the right direction, they just let it continue because it is seems to them easier than fighting and fixing it all for good. All they need is the right kind of motivation.
It's all about making them look and see for themselves - the real causes and reasons - and take responsibility. It's their inaction against morons living by greed and obsessions that keeps matters fvcked up.

Then that one is not intelligent/smart enough. I'm not talking about some ability to solve puzzles as games, or solve some mathematical equations.
Here you are contradicting yourself.
I am not contradicting myself. You are not understanding. Put it into perspective. This is far too simple to not understand.

First you say that morons must be suppressed by whatever means necessary, now you say that whoever does that isn't smart enough. Which is it?
I have never said this. You can't make a connection like this between what I've said that would as well be valid, because I haven't given grounds for this connection.

You just said that I am a "follower" and that I am too blind to see any of this. Why do you expect me to see it then?
One should hope you're not a blockhead, but well, guess you are...

Second, have you ever been to Syria?
Irrelevant.
Relevant.
Irrelevant.

Since you brought it in in the first place, why do you think it is relevant? Are you really not comprehending the scope here?

I am literally laughing at you right now. The same everywhere? Is there no end to your ignorance?
Wow... you really are a blockhead and really are a follower. You're blind to reality.
What values and mentalities are presently the basis of human civilization, everywhere? Compare them!

Your mistake here, my friend, is that you assume. Let me tell you a little about myself, so that you fall into this again.
I've told you before that I am not your friend. You claim to be smarter than me yet you don't even know what a friend is... Check a dictionary if you know what a dictionary is.

I have never been to elementary, middle, or highschool. Public or otherwise. I am entirely self educated, I grew up studying things my own way, on my own time, solving my own problems. To say that I am brainwashed by the system is incredibly ignorant, as I have never been in the system to begin with. Between the two of us then, by your own words, who has been exposed to more brainwashing?
Perhaps that's the problem, perhaps you indeed needed school. To be right in the middle of the BS, to notice what is going on. But seems you surrounded yourself with it anyway... with no positive outcome. Speaks of your intrinsical mental abilities... severely lacking.

Even your parents didn't help you learn anything? Self-educated since birth onward? This could as well explain your incomprehension. Humans are dependent on sociality, they need others, to various extents, especially during certain periods of life, like while growing up. Sure, that same sociality can mess everything up as well, given most people are, well...

What you read you just immediately believed? The first material readily available is always funded by governments and corporations and traditions and such... And my my, that just so happens to be "money is good", "eat your cooked food", "sugars are good, fat is bad, protein is bad", "all hail god(s)", "respect your elders (no matter how stupid they are...)", etc. You have fallen for all this propaganda.

Brainwashing doesn't have to be done by someone specific. Evidently people can manage it all on their own...
For example, if the material available to you is of that nature and you aren't aware of it you will be brainwashed "indirectly". Indirect indoctrination. But still, that you managed this level of brainwashing on your own devices... epic fail...

People sure are already inherently, dictated by genetics, of various intelligences. Seems like blockhead was the right word, definitively and pictorially. Though you can still change this... I am fairly certain you can... but then again... you did indoctrinate yourself. Damn this is funny...

Second, you my say that in this case I have no claim to education. Au contrair, by demonstrating superior problem solving skills and intuition, I was accepted into a college honors program at age 14, and one month later I had a degree from Cambridge University, thanks to my ability to simply take a final exam and get a course credit without even studying.
Wait... you say you've never been to school, yet now you say you've been to college? Um... that's a school as well...

Problem solving skills according the already established rules. Sure.
Degrees mean nothing. I've seen people with "degrees". Degrees do not determine who the person is, whether the person has the necessary experience, or the necessary knowledge, or anything. A degree is meaningless. You do not judge a person by the "degree".
You look at the degree " must be a very very very smart person. Then he opens his mouth...

I've seen those who "pass an exam without even studying". They are so consumed in everything but finding out who they truly are, what life best should be in general and for them, etc. They are all over the place, except themselves - which matters first, which should determine all the rest. Sure, some exceptions might be but that's rare.

Have you noticed that when you are interested in something, and when it is interesting, and you want to do it also, it is instantly much more easy to manage, to understand? As if you don't even have to study to understand it. Couple this with already learnt rules and ways, and your mind will simply fill the blanks.
You say you didn't study for the exam. But you had covered the material to some extent and in some form before, right? Of course you had.

I know about "little to no studying" as well to pass tests and exams... Been there, done that. I wasn't even interested in them, I was "supposed to" do the tests. What matters is that which you actually know, what experience you possess, your true abilities. Exams and tests and degrees stand for exams and tests and degrees, and nothing else. Evaluating someone's abilities and knowledge and experience by these and then evaluating people by the results of those is idiotic. Exams and tests do not reflect real life.

You say as if taking that exam "with no studying" was an achievement. It wasn't, it was meaningless. Perhaps just some mere confirmation to some "superiors" that you can do something. I know perfectly well about taking tests and exams " in reality, in life, they mean nothing. Knowledgeable experience matters, you can't get this from exams or tests. To get this you need practice, training.
nummi
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3/7/2014 4:33:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
My officially ranked IQ is 180. Now, I am only twenty years old, yet a professional biologist and I am working on my third college degree.
You aren't even aware that this "IQ" is meaningless. You pretend to talk with such authority/superiority, yet miss reality. You are wrong about diet and human health, you are religious (which god(s), eh? the one(s) not even made up yet?), obviously you are wrong about human society and economy. You have already proved "IQ" means nothing!
Also, that someone is good at some specific kind of thinking does not immediately make that person good at every other.
As well, those tests are biased. The outcomes are largely dependent on experience and previous knowledge. Yeah... I've done them. If I had known then who I am and had incorporated caring for established ways to my being and had "sucked up" to my "superiors", I would've hit 200 easily.

I've seen people hold others as authority and in reverence merely because they did well in some specific field, or because they were "learned people", but otherwise were total morons. You have this same inferior mentality.

And by the way, college? No such thing as "by the book" answers, not the courses I took. We were forced to come up with our own solutions, our own ways, by working with The experts, not under Them.
Your own solutions, own ways. Sure. But all those based on the rules "in the books".
I was in a university... though shortly, as I noticed this very same "by the book" there. 12 years was enough of that BS, then I noticed it went on the same in university where it was supposed to be different. Sure, it was different, but not according to the core values.
You are allowed "your own", as long as you accord "the books/rules".
That someone is claimed to be an "expert" means in reality nothing. They are not experts. They just know the book very well, but not actual reality. I've seen them myself, the only difference is I notice.
You are in so deep this charade you are blinded by it.

Tell me, who is more likely to have been indoctrinated by the public school system, me or you?
You said you haven't been to school, yet you went to college, and still are in school. Lying hypocrite.
So what, you weren't in school, and so wanted there, but wanted to "show" people what you can do and worked toward getting to a college as soon as possible? Or you saw some "famed" figures and the "glory" and wanted the same? You certainly do exhibit a tone reminiscent of this.
You haven't even "found yourself".

Who is more likely to be informed and knowledgeable of the world around us, me or you?
Just take a look at all our "discussions" in this entire forum and you'll have your answer. Keep in mind - take an objective look.

Bu the way, the whole "solving crisis" thing? I was in the Middle East during the Arab spring. I was there. I saw what happened. I saw why it happened. Don't you dare say that all these conflicts are the same.
Don't I dare, oh bad me... I say it because it is so! The underlying causes and reasons are all the same. More emphasis on one or another but all the same! If you fail to notice this fact, of reality, then you are extremely naive in the least.

How many have you encountered with views/mentality similar to mine? Not many, right?
A huge amount, and all of you are the same.
How many have you encountered with views/mentality similar to yours? Take a pick, it's really hard to miss.
Very few.
Down to blatant lying now?
The same? There's a reason I used the word "similar".
How many are there those who are for money, for religion, are mentally stuck in established ways that make them and so many suffer? Most of humanity, fact of reality, you are one of them.

You do not know what I think about these issues. All I have done is ask questions, I never offered commentary or my own view. Don't assume.
It is obvious what you think. You have given enough indication to know your general direction of mentality. If I assume I say so, otherwise I infer.

There are flaws, no doubt. There will always be flaws. But for you, it has gone overboard. The system you propose has already been tried repeatedly, and it failed.
The system I propose has never, ever in the whole existence of humanity been at least tried! Fact of absolute reality! Hammer it into your brain if you are incapable of seeing something so obvious with own senses.
You are a denier and a liar.
You, not me, are going overboard trying to defend something that goes against reality. You were dead wrong about diet and health, and you are religious, now this too. Funny how these all tend to go together, usually.

No my friend, those who question are not condemned. To question the established norm and seek better methods is the redeeming quality of mankind, and I despise the "follower" as much as you do.
I'm not your friend. You're deluding yourself.
You are despising something you are? Putting a picture of you together in my head is horrible - so many contradictions and blindness, avoidance, ignoring, ignorance, delusions, etc. You are a real mess.

The reason you are condemned is not because of your questions, it is because of your assertions. You have no reliable evidence to back up anything you say. Present evidence, and you will be hailed Asa hero, otherwise, you are just another mentally challenged loudmouth.
My evidence is simple objective logic and simple observation. You don't even have this much. Unlike you I don't claim to have something I don't - "scientific facts". Although if you cared to search you'd find some.

In case you have yet to realize this, I ask myself these questions for a living. I have been doing it a lot longer than you have.
Evidently in vain. Or rather, evidently ever farther away from reality. Whatever it is you are doing, you are doing wrong.
It's not the length that matters, it's the potency. How long have you been doing this? I've seen old people say this and that, should know by their age, yet miss reality.
If you don't find the cause you'll never get it right. And even if you do, without the true cause you'll never know nor see.

You have already made the assertion that most people are too dumb to see. Therefore we must be taught.
Yes?
You are here, in a debate forum... indicating a critical mind, yes? You should be capable of seeing the true situation on your own. Talks about the extent of intellectual "damage" among people in general. Or are you a "special" case?

You are specifically avoiding thinking about things, thinking in directions, that go against your indoctrination!
I have already answered these questions for myself. I just want to know what your answers are.
You have answered them for yourself "by the book"! Those aren't real answers.

You obviously have no concept of current events. That mentality is why people started these wars in the first place.
What mentality? Killing those who oppose? For fvck's sake, so naive! Try to think realistically! It is so obvious!
This what you here are referring to is exactly one reason why things are still so messed up!

The corrupt kill the opponents - the good people. Then the corrupt spread that if the remaining good ones kill the corrupt they will be exactly the same as the corrupt (doesn't matter who it originates from). Are you really so fvkcing stupid to actually believe such BS?!?! Then the good people never kill the corrupt. The corrupt always grow, always become more and more powerful, and there is no one to end their rein, because by then generations are brainwashed with the same mentality you are exhibiting! And all the while the corrupt kill/remove those who do rise up against them!
nummi
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3/7/2014 4:33:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Reasons matter, not actions.
Ah, an objective nihilist. Possibly a relative egotist. My contempt for you has just turned into hate.
Lol... thanks for the laugh. As if what you said here is supposed to change reality!
Also, I'm not a nihilist, neither an egotist. I'm a realist who sees and knows himself.
I don't hate... for I know it's not your fault you turned up so fvcked up. But only you are who can un-fvck-up yourself.

So, an example. You take one person. Then there's also two groups, a thousand, and a thousand. In order to save one group the person has to kill the entire other. Or everyone dies, even that one person. Killing someone, anyone, is considered punishable by death, by "law/tradition", because killing in general after killings for pleasure and such was branded "evil". So the person kills a group. And after is executed for doing something that had to be done to ensure survival?
Are you saying executing that one person is the right thing to do? Neglecting "true right and wrong"? Are you joking?

"Laws" are supposed to be based on "true right and wrong". "Laws" should be disregarded and thrown aside, even obliterated, when they get in the way of "true right and wrong". So, what is "true right and wrong"? And why?

And what is reality? How do you know that it is reality and not deception?
I see people, I see what the "leaders" say. I see how what is promised never gets done or gets done with a catch. I see how that which people don't want done gets done immediately with negative effects to the people and "positive" personal gains for the "leaders". I see how "leaders" lie. I see people struggling because they aren't "paid enough money". I see how people live for money. How they are taught to "follow" every step of their life, etc. I see people who don't do anything productive toward the betterment of the people but only to themselves, expending immense amounts of money, both of which they don't even need. I see people lie about products so other people would simply buy them. I see price increments and then soon after "discounts". I see that people are the ones who produce goods and provide services, not money. I see people need those goods, but don't have enough money for them, yet goods are there and people who produced and still produce them are also still there. I see how people believe the experts, yet I see that the experts are actually wrong most of the times. I see how religious people are denying reality for the sake of some fantastical creature that has and never can be proved for a very obvious reason. And much much more.
This is how matters are. Are you denying this?

The system you propose leads to tyranny, it always will and it always has.
Nice "by the book" response you got. What a retard you are...
What I propose has never in existence of humanity been tried! Fact of reality!

You... I'm speechless... You are so clueless about everything. And you talk with such "authority", as if you know, as if you see. You see absolutely nothing but "by the book" fantasies, and... just wow...

Good question. I recommend that you do some reading in philosophical ethics. This might help you answer the question.
Does the world we live in base on some "laws" and "ethics" that are made up by humans in the first place? Or are those "laws" and "ethics" based on the world we live in? What came first, those "laws", or our world and us?
Those "philosophical ethics" you are referring to are nothing more but mere opinions of other people. Why would I want to learn and follow the opinions of someone else's? I have my own mind.

You do realize that those "ethics" are just the opinions of some other people? Are you capable of understanding this and what it signifies?

Anyone can criticize the established ways. Who decides if they are right or not?
To such stupidity there really is not much that can be said... even calling you a retard is pointless, it would be insulting to true retards...
The state then would be choosing the leaders... meaning the previous steps are already fulfilled... Are you capable of comprehending what this means, what had to be first done to get to this state?

Damn how blind and stuck in delusions and lunacies you are...

The is plenty wrong, we are not discussing that. We are discussing methods of solving these issues.
Really? To know how to solve and what to solve you must first know what is wrong and why!
I've "discussed" with people of a mentality similar to yours. There's nothing to discuss, all you do is ignore and deny reality, then lie, and hide behind "facts" that aren't actually facts. Then there's bias, prejudice, delusions, etc.

Good luck finding reality!