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Mind Blown: Canada vs. US

Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/5/2014 3:22:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Given the sources, it appears that Canadians are victims of crimes twice as often as Americans. Also, when crimes occur, America has a nearly 40% higher conviction rate (65% vs. 90%)

Given all the news and the stereotypes of the nice/push-over Canadians and the gun-toting murder capital of America, along with all of our news stories about crime, I am quite surprised by this.
It appears we like to kill more often, but they like to steal cars and rape more. Burglaries and assaults are about equal.

Do you believe this is true, or is the information too outdated?
Why do you suppose this was the case when it was true?

Iceland is #1 victimized country. (the five Scandinavian countries are all in the top 12)
Canada is #10.
USA is #22.

http://www.nationmaster.com...
http://www.unodc.org...
http://www.unodc.org...
My work here is, finally, done.
Citrakayah
Posts: 1,500
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3/5/2014 3:37:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/5/2014 3:22:06 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Given the sources, it appears that Canadians are victims of crimes twice as often as Americans. Also, when crimes occur, America has a nearly 40% higher conviction rate (65% vs. 90%)

Given all the news and the stereotypes of the nice/push-over Canadians and the gun-toting murder capital of America, along with all of our news stories about crime, I am quite surprised by this.
It appears we like to kill more often, but they like to steal cars and rape more. Burglaries and assaults are about equal.

Do you believe this is true, or is the information too outdated?
Why do you suppose this was the case when it was true?

Iceland is #1 victimized country. (the five Scandinavian countries are all in the top 12)
Canada is #10.
USA is #22.

http://www.nationmaster.com...
http://www.unodc.org...
http://www.unodc.org...

It's worth noting that, as the first link pointed out, just going by reported crimes can lead to errors.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/5/2014 3:47:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/5/2014 3:37:25 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
At 3/5/2014 3:22:06 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Given the sources, it appears that Canadians are victims of crimes twice as often as Americans. Also, when crimes occur, America has a nearly 40% higher conviction rate (65% vs. 90%)

Given all the news and the stereotypes of the nice/push-over Canadians and the gun-toting murder capital of America, along with all of our news stories about crime, I am quite surprised by this.
It appears we like to kill more often, but they like to steal cars and rape more. Burglaries and assaults are about equal.

Do you believe this is true, or is the information too outdated?
Why do you suppose this was the case when it was true?

Iceland is #1 victimized country. (the five Scandinavian countries are all in the top 12)
Canada is #10.
USA is #22.

http://www.nationmaster.com...
http://www.unodc.org...
http://www.unodc.org...

It's worth noting that, as the first link pointed out, just going by reported crimes can lead to errors.

I am aware of that, but I think the first source states somewhere that the US has about a 89% (the highest) confidence in police survey. So, to me, if anything, that numbers would be skewed in other, less confident places. I am not sure where Canada lands on that survey.

And, given the stats as they are, that means that almost 50% of crimes in America go unreported, and 100% in Canada, for the victimization rates to be equal. And, obviously, being victim of some crimes are vastly worse than others, and these stats do not reflect any hierarchy.
My work here is, finally, done.
tulle
Posts: 4,445
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3/5/2014 3:57:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/5/2014 3:47:54 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

I am aware of that, but I think the first source states somewhere that the US has about a 89% (the highest) confidence in police survey. So, to me, if anything, that numbers would be skewed in other, less confident places. I am not sure where Canada lands on that survey.

Where does it say that? And who's to say the 11% don't live where there are tons of crime?

And, given the stats as they are, that means that almost 50% of crimes in America go unreported, and 100% in Canada, for the victimization rates to be equal.

How do you get that?

And, obviously, being victim of some crimes are vastly worse than others, and these stats do not reflect any hierarchy.
yang.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/5/2014 4:08:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/5/2014 3:57:26 PM, tulle wrote:
At 3/5/2014 3:47:54 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

I am aware of that, but I think the first source states somewhere that the US has about a 89% (the highest) confidence in police survey. So, to me, if anything, that numbers would be skewed in other, less confident places. I am not sure where Canada lands on that survey.

Where does it say that?
I can't find it. Maybe it was somewhere else. I just remember that USA was #1 in police confidence.
And who's to say the 11% don't live where there are tons of crime?
That is entirely possible, but isn't it just as likely that the unreported crimes would balance out over the comparison?

And, given the stats as they are, that means that almost 50% of crimes in America go unreported, and 100% in Canada, for the victimization rates to be equal.

How do you get that?
Math.
If Canada has 2x the amount of victims (i.e. crimes) per capita, then the amount of unreported crimes would have to double in the USA to equal Canada's reported crimes.

And, obviously, being victim of some crimes are vastly worse than others, and these stats do not reflect any hierarchy.
My work here is, finally, done.
tulle
Posts: 4,445
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3/5/2014 4:21:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/5/2014 4:08:11 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

That is entirely possible, but isn't it just as likely that the unreported crimes would balance out over the comparison?

I don't think so... Even if 100 crimes are reported in a safe area, and Canada is twice that, if 1000 crimes go unreported in an unsafe area, I'm not sure that would balance out.

Math.
If Canada has 2x the amount of victims (i.e. crimes) per capita,

That's a pretty big distinction too. Crimes vs. victims. If I live in an unsafe area and my house is burglared 5 times and I'm personally robbed twice, that only counts as one victim.

then the amount of unreported crimes would have to double in the USA to equal Canada's reported crimes.

And, obviously, being victim of some crimes are vastly worse than others, and these stats do not reflect any hierarchy.
yang.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/5/2014 4:27:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/5/2014 4:21:01 PM, tulle wrote:
At 3/5/2014 4:08:11 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

That is entirely possible, but isn't it just as likely that the unreported crimes would balance out over the comparison?

I don't think so... Even if 100 crimes are reported in a safe area, and Canada is twice that, if 1000 crimes go unreported in an unsafe area, I'm not sure that would balance out.
Keeping in mind this is per capita, and we have like 10x the people, 100 crimes to you would be the same as 1000 for us.
I am saying between countries, don't you think it would balance out? Both countries having the same number (equivalent) of unreported crimes.

Math.
If Canada has 2x the amount of victims (i.e. crimes) per capita,

That's a pretty big distinction too. Crimes vs. victims. If I live in an unsafe area and my house is burglared 5 times and I'm personally robbed twice, that only counts as one victim.
The stat is total crimes/population. The number of actual victims is irrelevant for this purpose. I am assuming 1 victim per crime, so I am stating there are 40 victims for every 1,000 people in the USA.

But, yes, the stat is actually that there are 40 crimes for every 1,000 people.

then the amount of unreported crimes would have to double in the USA to equal Canada's reported crimes.

And, obviously, being victim of some crimes are vastly worse than others, and these stats do not reflect any hierarchy.
My work here is, finally, done.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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3/5/2014 4:32:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
In a f*cked up world, the people are obviously going to be f*cked up. Perhaps America's being "murder capital" acts as a deterrent in one sense - in the locality, as regards other crimes - but that doesn't absolve it of overarching culpability. Death is the bane of our existence.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/5/2014 6:15:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/5/2014 4:32:28 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
In a f*cked up world, the people are obviously going to be f*cked up. Perhaps America's being "murder capital" acts as a deterrent in one sense - in the locality, as regards other crimes - but that doesn't absolve it of overarching culpability. Death is the bane of our existence.

The thought did occur to me that the number of guns do deter lessor crimes.
However, I don't see why we are the murder capital. Russia has almost as many murders, but at twice the rate, yet their gun ownership is about 10% of ours.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
My work here is, finally, done.
Citrakayah
Posts: 1,500
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3/5/2014 6:41:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/5/2014 6:15:19 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/5/2014 4:32:28 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
In a f*cked up world, the people are obviously going to be f*cked up. Perhaps America's being "murder capital" acts as a deterrent in one sense - in the locality, as regards other crimes - but that doesn't absolve it of overarching culpability. Death is the bane of our existence.

The thought did occur to me that the number of guns do deter lessor crimes.
However, I don't see why we are the murder capital. Russia has almost as many murders, but at twice the rate, yet their gun ownership is about 10% of ours.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Probably has to do with their recent emergence from the Soviet Union and economic factors.
ADreamOfLiberty
Posts: 1,570
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3/5/2014 11:23:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/5/2014 3:22:06 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Given the sources, it appears that Canadians are victims of crimes twice as often as Americans. Also, when crimes occur, America has a nearly 40% higher conviction rate (65% vs. 90%)

Given all the news and the stereotypes of the nice/push-over Canadians and the gun-toting murder capital of America, along with all of our news stories about crime, I am quite surprised by this.
It appears we like to kill more often, but they like to steal cars and rape more. Burglaries and assaults are about equal.

Do you believe this is true, or is the information too outdated?
Why do you suppose this was the case when it was true?

Iceland is #1 victimized country. (the five Scandinavian countries are all in the top 12)
Canada is #10.
USA is #22.

http://www.nationmaster.com...
http://www.unodc.org...
http://www.unodc.org...

I believe it is possible, I am highly skeptical of attempts to draw concrete conclusions from statistics involving so many factors.

At 3/5/2014 3:37:25 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
It's worth noting that, as the first link pointed out, just going by reported crimes can lead to errors.

That is indeed true, but I am once again struck with the notion that you aren't being epistemologically consistent in your beliefs. When I pointed out that going by reported bestiality (which has a significant bias towards animal abuse and rape) can lead to errors you ignored it despite it being critical to any chance of supporting your assertions about relative utility.
LOL, yeah, it's pretty amazing how they think they can "reason" with you. - Sidewalker, speaking of advocates for sexual deviancy.

So, my advice, Liberty, is to go somewhere else. Leave, and never come back. - YYW

And that's what I did. Contact me at http://www.edeb8.com... by the same user name if you have anything you'd like to say.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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3/6/2014 3:38:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/5/2014 6:15:19 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/5/2014 4:32:28 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
In a f*cked up world, the people are obviously going to be f*cked up. Perhaps America's being "murder capital" acts as a deterrent in one sense - in the locality, as regards other crimes - but that doesn't absolve it of overarching culpability. Death is the bane of our existence.

The thought did occur to me that the number of guns do deter lessor crimes.
However, I don't see why we are the murder capital. Russia has almost as many murders, but at twice the rate, yet their gun ownership is about 10% of ours.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

It's more likely that someone will commit suicide in cold climates than warm climates, which then brings it back to valuation of life, and then there are some obvious extras you could throw in as regards Russia to explain their greater propensity to murder in comparison to Americans, though they might elude statistical analysis.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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3/6/2014 3:48:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
America is the land of bullsh*t, basically, as charleslb so often points out, where Russians are not afforded such delusion.

I'm sorry, but America is such a cesspool, lol.