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An Idiotic Response to Erich's Resignation

YYW
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4/9/2014 8:57:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
http://www.latimes.com...

Charlotte Allen, of The LA Times writes:

Hey, gay rights activists: Why are you doing your best to make everyone hate you? I'm talking about the forced resignation of Mozilla Corp. CEO Brendan Eich. Because six years ago as a private citizen -- I repeat, six years ago as a private citizen -- he contributed $1,000 -- I repeat, $1,000 -- to the campaign for Proposition 8, the approved ballot measure that changed the California Constitution to say that marriage between a man and a woman would be the only kind of marriage that the state would recognize as legal.

Who cares that Eich happened to be a co-founder of Mozilla and was also the inventor of ja<x>vascript, the most popular programming language on the Internet? Who cares that Eich, after assuming his new role as CEO in March (he was promoted from his position as chief technology officer), wrote a heartfelt statement on his personal blog affirming his commitment to "ensuring that Mozilla is, and will remain, a place that includes and supports everyone, regardless of sexual orientation, gender identity, age, race, ethnicity, economic status, or religion"?

Nope, the important thing was that Eich opposed, and may well continue to oppose, same-sex marriage. That means he must be publicly denounced, as others who hold views such as his are denounced, as a "homophobe" and "anti-gay." He also must be driven from his well-earned position as head of the successful company he started -- and indeed from the company itself -- and consigned to ignominy. Nearly 70,000 people signed a petition demanding that Eich be ousted; the online dating site OKCupid temporarily blocked users of Mozilla's Firefox browser; Mozilla employees tweeted their shock that Eich hadn't apologized for his 2008 position; and Mozilla board Chairman Mitchell Baker issued an Orwellian statement: "Mozilla believes both in equality [the code word for gay marriage] and freedom of speech. Equality is necessary for meaningful speech." That was the end of Eich.

It gets better:

If this reminds you of China's Cultural Revolution of the 1960s, except without the official involvement of any government entity, you're on target.

Yes, you read that correctly. A private executive's choice to resign to prevent his company's stock price from plummeting has now made the gay right's movement the contemporary equivalent of China's Cultural Revolution in the 1960s.

I am reminded of why I don't read the LA times... except when friends send me op-ed articles fer teh lulz ...because clearly Charlotte Allen is nutcase. But, it get's even better! Keep reading, seriously...

What's significant is that this isn't the first time that gay rights activists have tried, sometimes successfully, to destroy the careers and livelihoods of those who don't happen to believe in gay marriage. These activists have launched impressive anti-bullying campaigns to protect gays, lesbians and other LGBT types from physical and verbal abuse. But at the same time, they have made same-sex marriage a litmus test for deeming who is for gay rights and who is against them, and they have ruthlessly punished those who flunk the test.

And now, we're hypocrites. Oh, joy. I'll bet we're called Nazi's next...

You can oppose gay marriage on religious grounds; you can oppose it on grounds of tradition (no human society ever recognized marriage between two members of the same sex until quite recently); or you can oppose it on practical sociological grounds: that traditional marriage provides important legal recognition for the stable raising of children by their biological parents. You can wholeheartedly support -- as I do -- civil unions, domestic partnerships or any other arrangement that allows people who love each other to enjoy the same easy transfers of property and other rights as married people. You will still be brutally denounced and ostracized. The "anti-bullying" crowd turns out to be the biggest bullies of all.

No, just hypocrites... lol

The bullying of Proposition 8 supporters began nearly the day after the measure passed. Owners and managers of businesses and nonprofits who had donated to support Proposition 8 were threatened with boycotts and in, some cases, pressured to resign. Mormon Church places of worship were vandalized -- because the Latter-day Saints oppose same-sex marriage. More recently, the gay rights organization GLAAD threw its weight behind a 2012 boycott campaign against the fast-food chain Chick-fil-A just because its president, Dan Cathy, opposes "marriage equality" and has contributed to traditional marriage organizations. And most recently of all, A&E briefly suspended "Duck Dynasty" patriarch Phil Robertson for expressing his Christian belief that homosexual activity is sinful. The Chick-fil-A and Robertson campaigns proved unsuccessful only because their socially conservative customer bases aren't so susceptible to gay rights intimidation as liberal Silicon Valley.

lol... and you thought this lunatic was done. Nope!

The only good thing to come out of Eich's forced resignation is that a number of prominent liberals have been horrified that someone can be ousted from a job merely for expressing his views politically as a private citizen....Perhaps this is a sign that the current witch-hunt may be wearing itself out -- although too late for Brendan Eich.

roflmao

I'll post a response to this later.
Tsar of DDO
thett3
Posts: 14,336
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4/9/2014 9:22:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/9/2014 8:57:38 PM, YYW wrote:

It gets better:

If this reminds you of China's Cultural Revolution of the 1960s, except without the official involvement of any government entity, you're on target.

Lol. While I'm not exactly comfortable with forcing someone to resign over something like this, comparing it to the cultural revolution where millions died, millions more were persecuted, and large parts of Chinese culture were forever destroyed is just asinine.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
YYW
Posts: 36,263
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4/9/2014 9:25:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/9/2014 9:22:43 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 8:57:38 PM, YYW wrote:

It gets better:

If this reminds you of China's Cultural Revolution of the 1960s, except without the official involvement of any government entity, you're on target.

Lol. While I'm not exactly comfortable with forcing someone to resign over something like this,

He wasn't forced. He voluntarily resigned, presumably to preserve the value of his stock options -the dividends from which I assume vastly exceed his annual salary.

comparing it to the cultural revolution where millions died, millions more were persecuted, and large parts of Chinese culture were forever destroyed is just asinine.

It is. I mean, I knew the LA times was a rag... the west coast equivalent of the NY post... but even for them, this was trashy.
Tsar of DDO
thett3
Posts: 14,336
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4/9/2014 9:28:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/9/2014 9:25:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:22:43 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 8:57:38 PM, YYW wrote:

It gets better:

If this reminds you of China's Cultural Revolution of the 1960s, except without the official involvement of any government entity, you're on target.

Lol. While I'm not exactly comfortable with forcing someone to resign over something like this,

He wasn't forced. He voluntarily resigned, presumably to preserve the value of his stock options -the dividends from which I assume vastly exceed his annual salary.

comparing it to the cultural revolution where millions died, millions more were persecuted, and large parts of Chinese culture were forever destroyed is just asinine.

It is. I mean, I knew the LA times was a rag... the west coast equivalent of the NY post... but even for them, this was trashy.

While we're on the subject of sh!tty articles, I thought this one that I read today was pretty bad: http://www.realclearpolitics.com...

I mean, just the rhetoric alone really turned me off from it. Call me old fashioned, but I'm not a fan of calling the President and his feminist allies "Obama and his femme-a-gogue flock"...whatever that means
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
YYW
Posts: 36,263
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4/9/2014 9:31:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/9/2014 9:28:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:25:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:22:43 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 8:57:38 PM, YYW wrote:

It gets better:

If this reminds you of China's Cultural Revolution of the 1960s, except without the official involvement of any government entity, you're on target.

Lol. While I'm not exactly comfortable with forcing someone to resign over something like this,

He wasn't forced. He voluntarily resigned, presumably to preserve the value of his stock options -the dividends from which I assume vastly exceed his annual salary.

comparing it to the cultural revolution where millions died, millions more were persecuted, and large parts of Chinese culture were forever destroyed is just asinine.

It is. I mean, I knew the LA times was a rag... the west coast equivalent of the NY post... but even for them, this was trashy.

While we're on the subject of sh!tty articles, I thought this one that I read today was pretty bad: http://www.realclearpolitics.com...

I mean, just the rhetoric alone really turned me off from it. Call me old fashioned, but I'm not a fan of calling the President and his feminist allies "Obama and his femme-a-gogue flock"...whatever that means

I literally do not know why anyone reads RCP....
Tsar of DDO
thett3
Posts: 14,336
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4/9/2014 9:33:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/9/2014 9:31:53 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:28:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:25:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:22:43 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 8:57:38 PM, YYW wrote:

It gets better:

If this reminds you of China's Cultural Revolution of the 1960s, except without the official involvement of any government entity, you're on target.

Lol. While I'm not exactly comfortable with forcing someone to resign over something like this,

He wasn't forced. He voluntarily resigned, presumably to preserve the value of his stock options -the dividends from which I assume vastly exceed his annual salary.

comparing it to the cultural revolution where millions died, millions more were persecuted, and large parts of Chinese culture were forever destroyed is just asinine.

It is. I mean, I knew the LA times was a rag... the west coast equivalent of the NY post... but even for them, this was trashy.

While we're on the subject of sh!tty articles, I thought this one that I read today was pretty bad: http://www.realclearpolitics.com...

I mean, just the rhetoric alone really turned me off from it. Call me old fashioned, but I'm not a fan of calling the President and his feminist allies "Obama and his femme-a-gogue flock"...whatever that means

I literally do not know why anyone reads RCP....

Whaaaat? RCP is awesome! The article is actually from the New York Post which is pretty bad
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
YYW
Posts: 36,263
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4/9/2014 9:35:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/9/2014 9:33:55 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:31:53 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:28:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:25:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:22:43 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 8:57:38 PM, YYW wrote:

It gets better:

If this reminds you of China's Cultural Revolution of the 1960s, except without the official involvement of any government entity, you're on target.

Lol. While I'm not exactly comfortable with forcing someone to resign over something like this,

He wasn't forced. He voluntarily resigned, presumably to preserve the value of his stock options -the dividends from which I assume vastly exceed his annual salary.

comparing it to the cultural revolution where millions died, millions more were persecuted, and large parts of Chinese culture were forever destroyed is just asinine.

It is. I mean, I knew the LA times was a rag... the west coast equivalent of the NY post... but even for them, this was trashy.

While we're on the subject of sh!tty articles, I thought this one that I read today was pretty bad: http://www.realclearpolitics.com...

I mean, just the rhetoric alone really turned me off from it. Call me old fashioned, but I'm not a fan of calling the President and his feminist allies "Obama and his femme-a-gogue flock"...whatever that means

I literally do not know why anyone reads RCP....

Whaaaat? RCP is awesome!

It's useful during election season when I want to know what the people who couldn't get jobs at the NYT are saying, but I think awesome might be a stretch.

The article is actually from the New York Post which is pretty bad

Michelle Malkin is, whenever she talks about anything, an embarrassment to women, to Asians and to Republicans everywhere.
Tsar of DDO
thett3
Posts: 14,336
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4/9/2014 9:43:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/9/2014 9:35:59 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:33:55 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:31:53 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:28:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:25:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:22:43 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 8:57:38 PM, YYW wrote:

It gets better:

If this reminds you of China's Cultural Revolution of the 1960s, except without the official involvement of any government entity, you're on target.

Lol. While I'm not exactly comfortable with forcing someone to resign over something like this,

He wasn't forced. He voluntarily resigned, presumably to preserve the value of his stock options -the dividends from which I assume vastly exceed his annual salary.

comparing it to the cultural revolution where millions died, millions more were persecuted, and large parts of Chinese culture were forever destroyed is just asinine.

It is. I mean, I knew the LA times was a rag... the west coast equivalent of the NY post... but even for them, this was trashy.

While we're on the subject of sh!tty articles, I thought this one that I read today was pretty bad: http://www.realclearpolitics.com...

I mean, just the rhetoric alone really turned me off from it. Call me old fashioned, but I'm not a fan of calling the President and his feminist allies "Obama and his femme-a-gogue flock"...whatever that means

I literally do not know why anyone reads RCP....

Whaaaat? RCP is awesome!

It's useful during election season when I want to know what the people who couldn't get jobs at the NYT are saying, but I think awesome might be a stretch.

Haha well, I like it as a poll and article aggregate. Except they do sometimes pick some worthless articles...like the above. Or anything from Slate.

The article is actually from the New York Post which is pretty bad

Michelle Malkin is, whenever she talks about anything, an embarrassment to women, to Asians and to Republicans everywhere.

Pretty much, yeah
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
YYW
Posts: 36,263
Add as Friend
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Send a Message
4/9/2014 9:44:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/9/2014 9:43:28 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:35:59 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:33:55 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:31:53 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:28:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:25:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:22:43 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 8:57:38 PM, YYW wrote:

It gets better:

If this reminds you of China's Cultural Revolution of the 1960s, except without the official involvement of any government entity, you're on target.

Lol. While I'm not exactly comfortable with forcing someone to resign over something like this,

He wasn't forced. He voluntarily resigned, presumably to preserve the value of his stock options -the dividends from which I assume vastly exceed his annual salary.

comparing it to the cultural revolution where millions died, millions more were persecuted, and large parts of Chinese culture were forever destroyed is just asinine.

It is. I mean, I knew the LA times was a rag... the west coast equivalent of the NY post... but even for them, this was trashy.

While we're on the subject of sh!tty articles, I thought this one that I read today was pretty bad: http://www.realclearpolitics.com...

I mean, just the rhetoric alone really turned me off from it. Call me old fashioned, but I'm not a fan of calling the President and his feminist allies "Obama and his femme-a-gogue flock"...whatever that means

I literally do not know why anyone reads RCP....

Whaaaat? RCP is awesome!

It's useful during election season when I want to know what the people who couldn't get jobs at the NYT are saying, but I think awesome might be a stretch.

Haha well, I like it as a poll and article aggregate. Except they do sometimes pick some worthless articles...like the above. Or anything from Slate.

You like Slate?


The article is actually from the New York Post which is pretty bad

Michelle Malkin is, whenever she talks about anything, an embarrassment to women, to Asians and to Republicans everywhere.

Pretty much, yeah
Tsar of DDO
thett3
Posts: 14,336
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4/9/2014 9:46:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/9/2014 9:44:56 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:43:28 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:35:59 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:33:55 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:31:53 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:28:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:25:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:22:43 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 8:57:38 PM, YYW wrote:

It gets better:

If this reminds you of China's Cultural Revolution of the 1960s, except without the official involvement of any government entity, you're on target.

Lol. While I'm not exactly comfortable with forcing someone to resign over something like this,

He wasn't forced. He voluntarily resigned, presumably to preserve the value of his stock options -the dividends from which I assume vastly exceed his annual salary.

comparing it to the cultural revolution where millions died, millions more were persecuted, and large parts of Chinese culture were forever destroyed is just asinine.

It is. I mean, I knew the LA times was a rag... the west coast equivalent of the NY post... but even for them, this was trashy.

While we're on the subject of sh!tty articles, I thought this one that I read today was pretty bad: http://www.realclearpolitics.com...

I mean, just the rhetoric alone really turned me off from it. Call me old fashioned, but I'm not a fan of calling the President and his feminist allies "Obama and his femme-a-gogue flock"...whatever that means

I literally do not know why anyone reads RCP....

Whaaaat? RCP is awesome!

It's useful during election season when I want to know what the people who couldn't get jobs at the NYT are saying, but I think awesome might be a stretch.

Haha well, I like it as a poll and article aggregate. Except they do sometimes pick some worthless articles...like the above. Or anything from Slate.

You like Slate?

No, I'm not a complete tool


The article is actually from the New York Post which is pretty bad

Michelle Malkin is, whenever she talks about anything, an embarrassment to women, to Asians and to Republicans everywhere.

Pretty much, yeah
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
YYW
Posts: 36,263
Add as Friend
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4/9/2014 9:49:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/9/2014 9:46:05 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:44:56 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:43:28 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:35:59 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:33:55 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:31:53 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:28:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:25:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:22:43 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 8:57:38 PM, YYW wrote:

It gets better:

If this reminds you of China's Cultural Revolution of the 1960s, except without the official involvement of any government entity, you're on target.

Lol. While I'm not exactly comfortable with forcing someone to resign over something like this,

He wasn't forced. He voluntarily resigned, presumably to preserve the value of his stock options -the dividends from which I assume vastly exceed his annual salary.

comparing it to the cultural revolution where millions died, millions more were persecuted, and large parts of Chinese culture were forever destroyed is just asinine.

It is. I mean, I knew the LA times was a rag... the west coast equivalent of the NY post... but even for them, this was trashy.

While we're on the subject of sh!tty articles, I thought this one that I read today was pretty bad: http://www.realclearpolitics.com...

I mean, just the rhetoric alone really turned me off from it. Call me old fashioned, but I'm not a fan of calling the President and his feminist allies "Obama and his femme-a-gogue flock"...whatever that means

I literally do not know why anyone reads RCP....

Whaaaat? RCP is awesome!

It's useful during election season when I want to know what the people who couldn't get jobs at the NYT are saying, but I think awesome might be a stretch.

Haha well, I like it as a poll and article aggregate. Except they do sometimes pick some worthless articles...like the above. Or anything from Slate.

You like Slate?

No, I'm not a complete tool

Slate has worthwhile content, I think, about once a month or so. I'm a more of a New Yorker and Buzzfeed whore....



The article is actually from the New York Post which is pretty bad

Michelle Malkin is, whenever she talks about anything, an embarrassment to women, to Asians and to Republicans everywhere.

Pretty much, yeah
Tsar of DDO
thett3
Posts: 14,336
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4/9/2014 9:53:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/9/2014 9:49:41 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:46:05 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:44:56 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:43:28 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:35:59 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:33:55 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:31:53 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:28:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:25:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:22:43 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 8:57:38 PM, YYW wrote:

It gets better:

If this reminds you of China's Cultural Revolution of the 1960s, except without the official involvement of any government entity, you're on target.

Lol. While I'm not exactly comfortable with forcing someone to resign over something like this,

He wasn't forced. He voluntarily resigned, presumably to preserve the value of his stock options -the dividends from which I assume vastly exceed his annual salary.

comparing it to the cultural revolution where millions died, millions more were persecuted, and large parts of Chinese culture were forever destroyed is just asinine.

It is. I mean, I knew the LA times was a rag... the west coast equivalent of the NY post... but even for them, this was trashy.

While we're on the subject of sh!tty articles, I thought this one that I read today was pretty bad: http://www.realclearpolitics.com...

I mean, just the rhetoric alone really turned me off from it. Call me old fashioned, but I'm not a fan of calling the President and his feminist allies "Obama and his femme-a-gogue flock"...whatever that means

I literally do not know why anyone reads RCP....

Whaaaat? RCP is awesome!

It's useful during election season when I want to know what the people who couldn't get jobs at the NYT are saying, but I think awesome might be a stretch.

Haha well, I like it as a poll and article aggregate. Except they do sometimes pick some worthless articles...like the above. Or anything from Slate.

You like Slate?

No, I'm not a complete tool

Slate has worthwhile content, I think, about once a month or so. I'm a more of a New Yorker and Buzzfeed whore....

Oh man, don't get me started on Buzzfeed. Or any site with the crappy "list" articles, really. They're all trash the only exception is Cracked sometimes.



The article is actually from the New York Post which is pretty bad

Michelle Malkin is, whenever she talks about anything, an embarrassment to women, to Asians and to Republicans everywhere.

Pretty much, yeah
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
YYW
Posts: 36,263
Add as Friend
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4/9/2014 9:54:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/9/2014 9:53:03 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:49:41 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:46:05 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:44:56 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:43:28 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:35:59 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:33:55 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:31:53 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:28:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:25:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:22:43 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 8:57:38 PM, YYW wrote:

It gets better:

If this reminds you of China's Cultural Revolution of the 1960s, except without the official involvement of any government entity, you're on target.

Lol. While I'm not exactly comfortable with forcing someone to resign over something like this,

He wasn't forced. He voluntarily resigned, presumably to preserve the value of his stock options -the dividends from which I assume vastly exceed his annual salary.

comparing it to the cultural revolution where millions died, millions more were persecuted, and large parts of Chinese culture were forever destroyed is just asinine.

It is. I mean, I knew the LA times was a rag... the west coast equivalent of the NY post... but even for them, this was trashy.

While we're on the subject of sh!tty articles, I thought this one that I read today was pretty bad: http://www.realclearpolitics.com...

I mean, just the rhetoric alone really turned me off from it. Call me old fashioned, but I'm not a fan of calling the President and his feminist allies "Obama and his femme-a-gogue flock"...whatever that means

I literally do not know why anyone reads RCP....

Whaaaat? RCP is awesome!

It's useful during election season when I want to know what the people who couldn't get jobs at the NYT are saying, but I think awesome might be a stretch.

Haha well, I like it as a poll and article aggregate. Except they do sometimes pick some worthless articles...like the above. Or anything from Slate.

You like Slate?

No, I'm not a complete tool

Slate has worthwhile content, I think, about once a month or so. I'm a more of a New Yorker and Buzzfeed whore....

Oh man, don't get me started on Buzzfeed. Or any site with the crappy "list" articles, really. They're all trash the only exception is Cracked sometimes.

Right, but unlike Slate, Buzzfeed doesn't pretend to be something better than it is.




The article is actually from the New York Post which is pretty bad

Michelle Malkin is, whenever she talks about anything, an embarrassment to women, to Asians and to Republicans everywhere.

Pretty much, yeah
Tsar of DDO
Skepsikyma
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4/10/2014 4:54:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
My favorite quip for responding to this sort of argument is 'the market has spoken'. The look on the face of your average 'Glenn Beck libertarian' is usually priceless. Because that's exactly what happened here, and they can't legitimately criticize it without undermining the bedrock of their own political philosophy.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
TN05
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4/10/2014 5:09:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Hillary is unfit for office , she opposed gay marriage in 2008. We can't let bigots be in charge!
TN05
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4/10/2014 5:10:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/9/2014 9:35:59 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:33:55 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:31:53 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:28:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:25:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/9/2014 9:22:43 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/9/2014 8:57:38 PM, YYW wrote:

It gets better:

If this reminds you of China's Cultural Revolution of the 1960s, except without the official involvement of any government entity, you're on target.

Lol. While I'm not exactly comfortable with forcing someone to resign over something like this,

He wasn't forced. He voluntarily resigned, presumably to preserve the value of his stock options -the dividends from which I assume vastly exceed his annual salary.

comparing it to the cultural revolution where millions died, millions more were persecuted, and large parts of Chinese culture were forever destroyed is just asinine.

It is. I mean, I knew the LA times was a rag... the west coast equivalent of the NY post... but even for them, this was trashy.

While we're on the subject of sh!tty articles, I thought this one that I read today was pretty bad: http://www.realclearpolitics.com...

I mean, just the rhetoric alone really turned me off from it. Call me old fashioned, but I'm not a fan of calling the President and his feminist allies "Obama and his femme-a-gogue flock"...whatever that means

I literally do not know why anyone reads RCP....

Whaaaat? RCP is awesome!

It's useful during election season when I want to know what the people who couldn't get jobs at the NYT are saying, but I think awesome might be a stretch.

The article is actually from the New York Post which is pretty bad

Michelle Malkin is, whenever she talks about anything, an embarrassment to women, to Asians and to Republicans everywhere

I'm sure you, as a gay male, know exactly what is an embaressment to straight Asian women.
TN05
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4/10/2014 5:17:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/10/2014 4:54:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
My favorite quip for responding to this sort of argument is 'the market has spoken'. The look on the face of your average 'Glenn Beck libertarian' is usually priceless. Because that's exactly what happened here, and they can't legitimately criticize it without undermining the bedrock of their own political philosophy.

Great straw man! Mozilla has the legal right to fire him, yes, and no one is arguing that. What we are arguing is that it is hypocritical for the gay movement and allies to bully a company into firing someone because they oppose[d] gay marriage, given how the gay movement and allies claim to promote tolerance, respect, and diversity. It's not just conservatives - Andrew Sullivan, a gay Obama supporter who wrote the first mainstream US news article in support of gay marriage, found it disgraceful and intolerant, akin to the behavior of anti-gay bigots.

We all know the gay movement and allies would be screaming bloody murder if this was Hobby Lobby firing their CEO because he is gay or supports gay marriage.
Skepsikyma
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4/10/2014 5:50:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/10/2014 5:17:36 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 4/10/2014 4:54:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
My favorite quip for responding to this sort of argument is 'the market has spoken'. The look on the face of your average 'Glenn Beck libertarian' is usually priceless. Because that's exactly what happened here, and they can't legitimately criticize it without undermining the bedrock of their own political philosophy.

Great straw man!

No, considering the article in question compares it to the cultural revolution. Do you know what straw man means?

Mozilla has the legal right to fire him, yes, and no one is arguing that. What we are arguing is that it is hypocritical for the gay movement and allies to bully a company into firing someone because they oppose[d] gay marriage.

How did they bully him? When I'm choosing between browsers, and I am told that my support of one browser will support a man who actively fights to deny me my rights, I will choose another. Many people did this en masse, and notified Mozilla of it via petition. Eich resigned once his position began to harm his company, as a result of his own bigoted political choices. Nobody threatened to harm anyone at Mozilla, they just took their business elsewhere. Would you prefer that they be forced to do business with him against their conscience?

given how the gay movement and allies claim to promote tolerance, respect, and diversity.

I don't support tolerance and diversity. I support individual rights and freedom of association, and respect where it is warranted.

It's not just conservatives - Andrew Sullivan, a gay Obama supporter who wrote the first mainstream US news article in support of gay marriage, found it disgraceful and intolerant, akin to the behavior of anti-gay bigots.

And I care about Andrew Sullivan why?

We all know the gay movement and allies would be screaming bloody murder if this was Hobby Lobby firing their CEO because he is gay or supports gay marriage.

I wouldn't. If their state had a law prohibiting discrimination, and they were going for a religious exception I would object to the attempt to circumvent the rule of law. And I would object to religion being a protected class, but sexual orientation not being one. But I don't like anti-discrimination laws because I support freedom of association, and would rather we didn't have any at all.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
TN05
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4/10/2014 6:54:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/10/2014 5:50:09 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/10/2014 5:17:36 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 4/10/2014 4:54:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
My favorite quip for responding to this sort of argument is 'the market has spoken'. The look on the face of your average 'Glenn Beck libertarian' is usually priceless. Because that's exactly what happened here, and they can't legitimately criticize it without undermining the bedrock of their own political philosophy.

Great straw man!

No, considering the article in question compares it to the cultural revolution. Do you know what straw man means?

Yes. You are incorrectly defining the argument of the other side, and then attacking them over it.

Mozilla has the legal right to fire him, yes, and no one is arguing that. What we are arguing is that it is hypocritical for the gay movement and allies to bully a company into firing someone because they oppose[d] gay marriage.

How did they bully him? When I'm choosing between browsers, and I am told that my support of one browser will support a man who actively fights to deny me my rights, I will choose another. Many people did this en masse, and notified Mozilla of it via petition. Eich resigned once his position began to harm his company, as a result of his own bigoted political choices. Nobody threatened to harm anyone at Mozilla, they just took their business elsewhere. Would you prefer that they be forced to do business with him against their conscience?

They demanded he resign because of political beliefs he at one point hold. That is bullying. It is stooping to methods they gay movement once condemned.

given how the gay movement and allies claim to promote tolerance, respect, and diversity.

I don't support tolerance and diversity. I support individual rights and freedom of association, and respect where it is warranted.

I never singled you out. I used third-person. I believe all people are entitled to respect, and nobody should be fired solely because of views they held.

It's not just conservatives - Andrew Sullivan, a gay Obama supporter who wrote the first mainstream US news article in support of gay marriage, found it disgraceful and intolerant, akin to the behavior of anti-gay bigots.

And I care about Andrew Sullivan why?

He is one of the titans of the gay community. He stood for it when it wasn't popular and recognizes the similarity this has to how gay people used to be discriminated against.

We all know the gay movement and allies would be screaming bloody murder if this was Hobby Lobby firing their CEO because he is gay or supports gay marriage.

I wouldn't. If their state had a law prohibiting discrimination, and they were going for a religious exception I would object to the attempt to circumvent the rule of law. And I would object to religion being a protected class, but sexual orientation not being one. But I don't like anti-discrimination laws because I support freedom of association, and would rather we didn't have any at all.

I agree with you on anti-discrimination laws; unfortunately , the gay movement and allies do not. They want the freedom to fire dissidents, but also the ability to force people (cakemakers, florists, photographers, etc.) to associate with them.
bluesteel
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4/10/2014 7:58:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
It amazes me that people seem to conflate "freedom of speech" with a "right not to be held socially accountable for anything you say." The neo-Nazis had the "right" to march through Skokie, Illinois [a predominately Jewish town] chanting "kill the Jews." That doesn't mean the 1st Amendment shielded those participants from the *social* consequences of their participation. Racists remain free to assert that black people are inferior human beings. Again, the 1st Amendment does not protect them from the *fallout* from those comments if their community ostrasizes them for their choice to say those things.

The reason Erich resigned was primarily that no one at Mozilla would work with him anymore once this went public. It was due to the internal reaction at the company. It wasn't due to a big consumer boycott. And even if it were a boycott, a boycott is *free speech.* The 1st Amendment does not say: thou must buy products from people you don't like.

You can say whatever you *damn* please and the government can't stop you. That doesn't mean society can't react negatively to the things you say.

I'm sorry -- closet homophobes -- but we seem to have reached *that point*: where opposing gay marriage is viewed as equivalent to opposing interracial marriage. It's time to stop wearing your bigotry as a badge of honor. And stop crying that people don't like you because you're bigoted. The 1st Amendment says you can *say* what you want; it doesn't mean we have to *listen* to it, to *like* you, or to *buy* your products.

So stop whining that people exercising their 1st Amendment right to boycott a company is somehow a violation of a CEO's 1st Amendment rights.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Skepsikyma
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4/10/2014 9:58:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/10/2014 6:54:38 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 4/10/2014 5:50:09 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/10/2014 5:17:36 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 4/10/2014 4:54:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
My favorite quip for responding to this sort of argument is 'the market has spoken'. The look on the face of your average 'Glenn Beck libertarian' is usually priceless. Because that's exactly what happened here, and they can't legitimately criticize it without undermining the bedrock of their own political philosophy.

Great straw man!

No, considering the article in question compares it to the cultural revolution. Do you know what straw man means?

Yes. You are incorrectly defining the argument of the other side, and then attacking them over it.

How?

Mozilla has the legal right to fire him, yes, and no one is arguing that. What we are arguing is that it is hypocritical for the gay movement and allies to bully a company into firing someone because they oppose[d] gay marriage.

How did they bully him? When I'm choosing between browsers, and I am told that my support of one browser will support a man who actively fights to deny me my rights, I will choose another. Many people did this en masse, and notified Mozilla of it via petition. Eich resigned once his position began to harm his company, as a result of his own bigoted political choices. Nobody threatened to harm anyone at Mozilla, they just took their business elsewhere. Would you prefer that they be forced to do business with him against their conscience?

They demanded he resign because of political beliefs he at one point hold. That is bullying.

Actually, it isn't. Words have these things called definitions. You could say that he was intimidated by the reaction to his comments. But intimidation is just one facet of the definition of bullying, the rest of which don't fit this situation (forceful, brutish, strong targeting the weak, etc,) and using a less accurate word because of the connotative punch it carries is dishonest.

It is stooping to methods they gay movement once condemned.

When did the gay movement ever condemn boycotts or petitions? These are the methods employed.

given how the gay movement and allies claim to promote tolerance, respect, and diversity.

I don't support tolerance and diversity. I support individual rights and freedom of association, and respect where it is warranted.

I never singled you out. I used third-person. I believe all people are entitled to respect, and nobody should be fired solely because of views they held.

I'm gay. I advocate for gay rights. When you said 'the gay movement and allies claim to promote x', you were talking about me. This is why sweeping generalizations are considered logical fallacies.

It's not just conservatives - Andrew Sullivan, a gay Obama supporter who wrote the first mainstream US news article in support of gay marriage, found it disgraceful and intolerant, akin to the behavior of anti-gay bigots.

And I care about Andrew Sullivan why?

He is one of the titans of the gay community. He stood for it when it wasn't popular and recognizes the similarity this has to how gay people used to be discriminated against.

And this makes his word sacrament? Textbook argument from authority. There is nothing wrong with boycotts and petitions. They can be used in wrong ways, but I don't see how removing people who do not respect the rights of others from positions of power is wrong.

We all know the gay movement and allies would be screaming bloody murder if this was Hobby Lobby firing their CEO because he is gay or supports gay marriage.

I wouldn't. If their state had a law prohibiting discrimination, and they were going for a religious exception I would object to the attempt to circumvent the rule of law. And I would object to religion being a protected class, but sexual orientation not being one. But I don't like anti-discrimination laws because I support freedom of association, and would rather we didn't have any at all.

I agree with you on anti-discrimination laws; unfortunately , the gay movement and allies do not. They want the freedom to fire dissidents, but also the ability to force people (cakemakers, florists, photographers, etc.) to associate with them.

Once again: I am gay, and I advocate for gay rights. Sweeping generalization. Argue the points, not silly personal things. You can't project hypocrisy onto a loosely associated group of individuals, all with diverse views on many subjects, especially when the one you are actually arguing with doesn't hold the contradictory beliefs which you are projecting onto the group.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
TN05
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4/10/2014 10:09:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/10/2014 9:58:26 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/10/2014 6:54:38 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 4/10/2014 5:50:09 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/10/2014 5:17:36 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 4/10/2014 4:54:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
My favorite quip for responding to this sort of argument is 'the market has spoken'. The look on the face of your average 'Glenn Beck libertarian' is usually priceless. Because that's exactly what happened here, and they can't legitimately criticize it without undermining the bedrock of their own political philosophy.

Great straw man!

No, considering the article in question compares it to the cultural revolution. Do you know what straw man means?

Yes. You are incorrectly defining the argument of the other side, and then attacking them over it.

How?

I suggest you re-read your argument.

Mozilla has the legal right to fire him, yes, and no one is arguing that. What we are arguing is that it is hypocritical for the gay movement and allies to bully a company into firing someone because they oppose[d] gay marriage.

How did they bully him? When I'm choosing between browsers, and I am told that my support of one browser will support a man who actively fights to deny me my rights, I will choose another. Many people did this en masse, and notified Mozilla of it via petition. Eich resigned once his position began to harm his company, as a result of his own bigoted political choices. Nobody threatened to harm anyone at Mozilla, they just took their business elsewhere. Would you prefer that they be forced to do business with him against their conscience?

They demanded he resign because of political beliefs he at one point hold. That is bullying.

Actually, it isn't. Words have these things called definitions. You could say that he was intimidated by the reaction to his comments. But intimidation is just one facet of the definition of bullying, the rest of which don't fit this situation (forceful, brutish, strong targeting the weak, etc,) and using a less accurate word because of the connotative punch it carries is dishonest.

He didn't make any comments. He didn't say anything about it publicly - at all - in his entire tenure as CEO or CTO before that. This was public knowledge since 2012. Yes, he was being intimidated by pro-gay groups - they intended to force him to either be fired or retire, and they did so in numbers larger than his supporters. It is indeed bullying.

It is stooping to methods they gay movement once condemned.

When did the gay movement ever condemn boycotts or petitions? These are the methods employed.

given how the gay movement and allies claim to promote tolerance, respect, and diversity.

I don't support tolerance and diversity. I support individual rights and freedom of association, and respect where it is warranted.

I never singled you out. I used third-person. I believe all people are entitled to respect, and nobody should be fired solely because of views they held.

I'm gay. I advocate for gay rights. When you said 'the gay movement and allies claim to promote x', you were talking about me. This is why sweeping generalizations are considered logical fallacies.

Good for you, but it's not a logical fallacy if it is true. Gay advocates in general supported forcing him to resign, solely because of their perception of his political views.

It's not just conservatives - Andrew Sullivan, a gay Obama supporter who wrote the first mainstream US news article in support of gay marriage, found it disgraceful and intolerant, akin to the behavior of anti-gay bigots.

And I care about Andrew Sullivan why?

He is one of the titans of the gay community. He stood for it when it wasn't popular and recognizes the similarity this has to how gay people used to be discriminated against.

And this makes his word sacrament? Textbook argument from authority. There is nothing wrong with boycotts and petitions. They can be used in wrong ways, but I don't see how removing people who do not respect the rights of others from positions of power is wrong.

Yet another straw-man. When did I say it was sacrament? I was giving an example that some people who aren't inclined to support Eich's political views believed the treatment of gay advocates towards him was disgraceful.

We all know the gay movement and allies would be screaming bloody murder if this was Hobby Lobby firing their CEO because he is gay or supports gay marriage.

I wouldn't. If their state had a law prohibiting discrimination, and they were going for a religious exception I would object to the attempt to circumvent the rule of law. And I would object to religion being a protected class, but sexual orientation not being one. But I don't like anti-discrimination laws because I support freedom of association, and would rather we didn't have any at all.

I agree with you on anti-discrimination laws; unfortunately , the gay movement and allies do not. They want the freedom to fire dissidents, but also the ability to force people (cakemakers, florists, photographers, etc.) to associate with them.

Once again: I am gay, and I advocate for gay rights. Sweeping generalization. Argue the points, not silly personal things. You can't project hypocrisy onto a loosely associated group of individuals, all with diverse views on many subjects, especially when the one you are actually arguing with doesn't hold the contradictory beliefs which you are projecting onto the group.

Once again, good for you. You used a sweeping generalization to start ("Glenn Beck libertarians") so don't be yapping to me about that. My point stands, however - the gay movement came out in strong support of firing Eich. They also support banning workplace discrimination towards gays and have opposed bills (such as the Arizona bill) that would recognize that freedom of association extends to people who have moral issues with gay weddings, and do not want to participate in them. If these people truly support gay marriage as a freedom of association issue, and support allowing businesses to fire people who oppose gay marriage, it is inconsistent to force others to associate with gay marriages and to grant special workplace protections to gay people.
Skepsikyma
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4/10/2014 10:35:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/10/2014 10:09:49 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 4/10/2014 9:58:26 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/10/2014 6:54:38 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 4/10/2014 5:50:09 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/10/2014 5:17:36 PM, TN05 wrote:

Great straw man!

No, considering the article in question compares it to the cultural revolution. Do you know what straw man means?

Yes. You are incorrectly defining the argument of the other side, and then attacking them over it.

How?

I suggest you re-read your argument.

I suggest that you either defend your contention, or concede that it was contrived.

How did they bully him? When I'm choosing between browsers, and I am told that my support of one browser will support a man who actively fights to deny me my rights, I will choose another. Many people did this en masse, and notified Mozilla of it via petition. Eich resigned once his position began to harm his company, as a result of his own bigoted political choices. Nobody threatened to harm anyone at Mozilla, they just took their business elsewhere. Would you prefer that they be forced to do business with him against their conscience?

They demanded he resign because of political beliefs he at one point hold. That is bullying.

Actually, it isn't. Words have these things called definitions. You could say that he was intimidated by the reaction to his comments. But intimidation is just one facet of the definition of bullying, the rest of which don't fit this situation (forceful, brutish, strong targeting the weak, etc,) and using a less accurate word because of the connotative punch it carries is dishonest.

He didn't make any comments. He didn't say anything about it publicly - at all - in his entire tenure as CEO or CTO before that. This was public knowledge since 2012. Yes, he was being intimidated by pro-gay groups - they intended to force

Really? They came in with torches and pitchforks? To say that someone was forced to do something implies the use of force. In this situation, solely non-violent means were employed.

him to either be fired or retire, and they did so in numbers larger than his supporters. It is indeed bullying.

So any effective boycott is bullying, in your mind?How does that at all meet the definition? You're grasping at straws here in an attempt to portray a non-violent refusal to associate with someone as an unjust act of violence.

It is stooping to methods they gay movement once condemned.

When did the gay movement ever condemn boycotts or petitions? These are the methods employed.


I don't support tolerance and diversity. I support individual rights and freedom of association, and respect where it is warranted.

I never singled you out. I used third-person. I believe all people are entitled to respect, and nobody should be fired solely because of views they held.

I'm gay. I advocate for gay rights. When you said 'the gay movement and allies claim to promote x', you were talking about me. This is why sweeping generalizations are considered logical fallacies.

Good for you, but it's not a logical fallacy if it is true.

Lol, my point is that my beliefs render your sweeping statement false.

Gay advocates in general supported forcing him to resign, solely because of their perception of his political views.

Yes, but that's not the claim that you made which I pointed out as fallacious. That claim was: 'the gay movement and allies claim to promote tolerance, respect, and diversity.' Your charge of hypocrisy towards an entire group is predicated on the validity of this fallacious premise.


And I care about Andrew Sullivan why?

He is one of the titans of the gay community. He stood for it when it wasn't popular and recognizes the similarity this has to how gay people used to be discriminated against.

And this makes his word sacrament? Textbook argument from authority. There is nothing wrong with boycotts and petitions. They can be used in wrong ways, but I don't see how removing people who do not respect the rights of others from positions of power is wrong.

Yet another straw-man. When did I say it was sacrament?

You didn't, literally. That doesn't make it a straw man, it makes it a rephrasing. You stated that I should care about his opinion simply because he is 'one of the titans of the gay community'. That is an argument from authority.

I was giving an example that some people who aren't inclined to support Eich's political views believed the treatment of gay advocates towards him was disgraceful.

And my original question resurfaces: why should I care? It doesn't affect any of the arguments involved, it's just a useless side comment meant to garner sympathy for your cause.

I wouldn't. If their state had a law prohibiting discrimination, and they were going for a religious exception I would object to the attempt to circumvent the rule of law. And I would object to religion being a protected class, but sexual orientation not being one. But I don't like anti-discrimination laws because I support freedom of association, and would rather we didn't have any at all.

I agree with you on anti-discrimination laws; unfortunately , the gay movement and allies do not. They want the freedom to fire dissidents, but also the ability to force people (cakemakers, florists, photographers, etc.) to associate with them.

Once again: I am gay, and I advocate for gay rights. Sweeping generalization. Argue the points, not silly personal things. You can't project hypocrisy onto a loosely associated group of individuals, all with diverse views on many subjects, especially when the one you are actually arguing with doesn't hold the contradictory beliefs which you are projecting onto the group.

Once again, good for you. You used a sweeping generalization to start ("Glenn Beck libertarians") so don't be yapping to me about that.

That's not a sweeping generalization, because it wasn't an argument. In order to be a fallacious inductive argument, the thing in question must first be an argument. I was making a joke (which is not, to clarify, an argument). Your line of reasoning here, however, is a textbook example of the tu quoque logical fallacy.

My point stands, however - the gay movement came out in strong support of firing Eich. They also support banning workplace discrimination towards gays and have opposed bills (such as the Arizona bill) that would recognize that freedom of association extends to people who have moral issues with gay weddings, and do not want to participate in them. If these people truly support gay marriage as a freedom of association issue, and support allowing businesses to fire people who oppose gay marriage, it is inconsistent to force others to associate with gay marriages and to grant special workplace protections to gay people.

Your point stands - on a fallacious hasty generalization which assumes the ideological homogeneity of a huge political advocacy community, and then attempts to paint them as hypocrites with a second pass of your absurdly large brush. It does this without once addressing the actual moral and political arguments at play here.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
YYW
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4/10/2014 10:35:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/10/2014 7:58:17 PM, bluesteel wrote:
It amazes me that people seem to conflate "freedom of speech" with a "right not to be held socially accountable for anything you say."

Me too, but that's the point we're at now...

The neo-Nazis had the "right" to march through Skokie, Illinois [a predominately Jewish town] chanting "kill the Jews." That doesn't mean the 1st Amendment shielded those participants from the *social* consequences of their participation. Racists remain free to assert that black people are inferior human beings. Again, the 1st Amendment does not protect them from the *fallout* from those comments if their community ostrasizes them for their choice to say those things.

Exactly. There is always a cost to having a perspective, and this is hardly the first time that politics have hurt people's employment prospects.

The reason Erich resigned was primarily that no one at Mozilla would work with him anymore once this went public.

I mean, that may have been one reason -but I think it's equally as possible if not more so that he wanted to preserve the value of his stock options.

It was due to the internal reaction at the company.

And the popular backlash Mozilla suffered...

It wasn't due to a big consumer boycott.

Right.

And even if it were a boycott, a boycott is *free speech.* The 1st Amendment does not say: thou must buy products from people you don't like.

lol, I love it.

You can say whatever you *damn* please and the government can't stop you. That doesn't mean society can't react negatively to the things you say.

Preach it.

I'm sorry -- closet homophobes -- but we seem to have reached *that point*: where opposing gay marriage is viewed as equivalent to opposing interracial marriage. It's time to stop wearing your bigotry as a badge of honor. And stop crying that people don't like you because you're bigoted. The 1st Amendment says you can *say* what you want; it doesn't mean we have to *listen* to it, to *like* you, or to *buy* your products.

So stop whining that people exercising their 1st Amendment right to boycott a company is somehow a violation of a CEO's 1st Amendment rights.

Damn right.
Tsar of DDO
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4/10/2014 10:56:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/10/2014 5:09:25 PM, TN05 wrote:
Hillary is unfit for office , she opposed gay marriage in 2008. We can't let bigots be in charge!

Yeah, that argument's been used before...

Romney is unfit for office! He failed to support conservative principles by mandating health coverage in his state! We can't let socialists be in charge!
Tsar of DDO