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Should Girls Make the First Move?

R0b1Billion
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4/26/2014 6:50:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I've found that, despite gender correctness, it seems to make more sense that women make "the first move" on guys instead of the other way around (or instead of it being equal). For one thing, guys are more attracted to looks while girls are able to put physical attraction aside and concentrate on things that are more important. As a guy, I'm "attracted" to just about every cute girl I see, whether or not they are actually a good fit for me.

How often do attractive females hit on guys? It almost never happens. Attractive guys, on the other hand, become "players" and hit on girls who are essentially below their price range simply in the interests of having a short-term physical relationship. So, as a girl, you need to be extremely skeptical about any guy that hits on you. They may not be serious about long-term (lowering standards for one-night stand) or else they may just be enamored by your physical appearance.

If a girl makes the first move, you can bet she has exercised some patience and considered more than looks. Girls are overwhelmingly more likely looking to make a family as opposed to just having fun (assuming she didn't pick you up in a bar of course!) and it seems to me to be the gentlemanly-thing to do to resist the temptation a guy has to try and get his hands on those irresistible curves!

What do you guys think? There is a certain woman in my life that I want to hit on that I don't, and I find myself very confused as to whether or not I should break the ice with her. I'm physically-attracted to her, and as for all the other stuff, how can I be sure I'm not just fooling myself because I am lusting after her? If she never makes an attempt at me, then perhaps that's a sign that she understands we are incompatible. Of course, there's that seed of doubt in there that eats at me, as I wonder whether she just wants me to make a move on her. Our culture is strong regarding guys having confidence and exercising that confidence by chasing the girl we want.

My best-friend and wingman has schooled me of the wisdom that girls will always give you a clear opening if they want you. It is often subtle, and if you aren't looking for it you might not be ready. Is this the way one finds the "right" girl? That is, by controlling lust (i.e., the urge to be flirty) and waiting for that legitimate opening? In the movies, it's always about the guy chasing and winning over the girl against her will but perhaps that's not the natural way we should go about it.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
AlbinoBunny
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4/27/2014 4:47:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Natural way or best way? Do you want monogamy? Should everyone? Is waiting for the right thing the best policy? Or is going out and finding the right thing the best policy?
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R0b1Billion
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4/27/2014 9:55:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/27/2014 4:47:39 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
Natural way or best way?

Natural is the best way, no matter what the subject is!

Do you want monogamy?

Yep.

Should everyone?

Well of course there are those that don't, but I think that yes, everyone "should" want monogamy. Those who don't are probably damaged by bad upbringing, bad cultural more`s, and exposure to bad examples of family units (e.g., one-parent families). So while you and others will say their values are just different ("different strokes for different folks"), I would argue that this difference is a result of damage, not an expression of unique identity. Also, our wealth severely damages even the best of us because of how luxurious our lifestyles are. It's sort of like being on an IV your whole life and never realizing the importance of food. Any person that is raised in a natural environment, that is, where the importance of working to create food/clothing/shelter, cooperating as a family unit, and experiencing the freedom of the natural world (as opposed to these concrete prisons we now live in) will naturally develop the values that are most important. The damage Americans sustain in this culture is incredible... I teach kids where I work about such things every day and I have to first break them of these assumptions that their products just appear on the shelves of Wal-Mart. Even the most educated of us in this society don't truly understand the cradle-to-grave life-cycle of the resources and products we use. How can we possibly develop proper values without knowing such things?

We lack
1) Knowledge of how our sustenance is achieved,
2) Freedom to experience (and therefore appreciate) the natural world, and
3) Moral guidance from our families who themselves were never taught proper values.

Having a family is a natural need that all organisms must strive for to continue the species. It isn't a life choice, as some Americans like to make it. Procreation is perhaps our main goal in life, and that is only possible using the BEST genes you can find, and on top of that you need HELP to raise the children. That means you have to secure the best mate possible and work with him/her to teach those kids how to become productive and stay safe. All other prerogatives you might have are inefficiencies in your personality created by damage through one of the three mechanisms I just listed.

Is waiting for the right thing the best policy? Or is going out and finding the right thing the best policy?

I've observed in nature that many species include males that will have sex with everything in sight, while females are charged with the task of selection. Unfortunately humans are not much different! Does not a man's ability to control his sex drive say something about his quality of character? I understand your point about going out and getting what you want as opposed to siting on your hands and waiting for it to fall into your lap, but I would argue that this principle applies to productivity, not love. If I want a career, lots of wealth, etc. then I need ambition. But love is not a product of ambition, is it? How would I apply ambition to love? The only real way to find love is to wait for the right person, which takes time - not effort!
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
GodChoosesLife
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4/27/2014 10:02:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Idk if you want a females perspective on this, but I don't think a female should be the one making the first move. Nor should she just accept any guy either.
Better than deserved, as ALWAYS.
"The strongest principle of growth lies in human choices."
"The Lord doesn't promise us a perfect life that is free of problems, but he does promise that He'll get us through anything." ~SweeTea
"Good Times" ~ Max
"If Jesus isn't in heaven, then it's not heaven; instead, it's hell." ~anonymous
"Suffering is unimaginably confusing, but it's a way to be drawn closer to God" ~Me
"Tell me what consumes your heart most, and I'll tell you who your God is." ~Dad
R0b1Billion
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4/27/2014 10:51:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/27/2014 10:02:35 AM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
Idk if you want a females perspective on this, but I don't think a female should be the one making the first move. Nor should she just accept any guy either.

So let's say you really liked a guy, but he didn't make a pass at you. Would you simply wait for another guy that you perhaps didn't like as much to make that effort?

What if a guy makes a pass at you but he made passes at lots of other girls behind your back? How do you know he isn't just good at flirting?
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
GodChoosesLife
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4/27/2014 11:06:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/27/2014 10:51:01 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 4/27/2014 10:02:35 AM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
Idk if you want a females perspective on this, but I don't think a female should be the one making the first move. Nor should she just accept any guy either.

So let's say you really liked a guy, but he didn't make a pass at you. Would you simply wait for another guy that you perhaps didn't like as much to make that effort?
If he didn't make a move I would observe why and come to the conclusion he is not meant for me and move on (meaning get over him; I've had to do this before). At this point id rather not let my feelings get in the way to allow myself to like another unless they are promising for me.

What if a guy makes a pass at you but he made passes at lots of other girls behind your back? How do you know he isn't just good at flirting?

Currently there is a guy that is actually doing that to me now at my college campus. He's very good at flirting, but from deep analysis he's not a good liar either. He might think he has me fooled, but I'm not dumb. I have no interest in him whatsoever, sure he's a good looking guy, but his looks don't even catch my attention just cause I see what type of guy he is inside. Yes he has good in him and I do my best to make notice of that, but I have no interest.
Better than deserved, as ALWAYS.
"The strongest principle of growth lies in human choices."
"The Lord doesn't promise us a perfect life that is free of problems, but he does promise that He'll get us through anything." ~SweeTea
"Good Times" ~ Max
"If Jesus isn't in heaven, then it's not heaven; instead, it's hell." ~anonymous
"Suffering is unimaginably confusing, but it's a way to be drawn closer to God" ~Me
"Tell me what consumes your heart most, and I'll tell you who your God is." ~Dad
R0b1Billion
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4/27/2014 12:09:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/27/2014 11:06:13 AM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
At 4/27/2014 10:51:01 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 4/27/2014 10:02:35 AM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
Idk if you want a females perspective on this, but I don't think a female should be the one making the first move. Nor should she just accept any guy either.

So let's say you really liked a guy, but he didn't make a pass at you. Would you simply wait for another guy that you perhaps didn't like as much to make that effort?
If he didn't make a move I would observe why and come to the conclusion he is not meant for me and move on (meaning get over him; I've had to do this before). At this point id rather not let my feelings get in the way to allow myself to like another unless they are promising for me.

What if a guy makes a pass at you but he made passes at lots of other girls behind your back? How do you know he isn't just good at flirting?

Currently there is a guy that is actually doing that to me now at my college campus. He's very good at flirting, but from deep analysis he's not a good liar either. He might think he has me fooled, but I'm not dumb. I have no interest in him whatsoever, sure he's a good looking guy, but his looks don't even catch my attention just cause I see what type of guy he is inside. Yes he has good in him and I do my best to make notice of that, but I have no interest.

You know, we are probably just arguing semantics here. You say the guy should make the first move, and by that you probably mean that he should proposition the girl. I don't disagree on that at all. But the first "move," to me, isn't a formal proposition, it is very subtle. For instance, one of the teachers that came to camp a few months ago was conversing with me about something and she somehow worked into the conversation a way to find out if I was single. When I told her I was, a few sentences later she mentioned she was "not married yet." Ironically, even though she was cute I didn't pursue it further because teachers are our clients and I feel like I will lose the respect of my colleagues if I start hitting on them. Anyway, girls can make the first move without really doing it officially. Starting a conversation, batting their eyes, smiling, etc. can be first moves without it being something that is clearly and obviously sexually-related. If I am going to flirt with a girl, I'm not just going to approach a girl who has not made some sort of sign to give me an opening. Otherwise I could possibly be hitting on a girl who has a boyfriend (not married yet/no ring), who is not interested in me, or maybe not even heterosexual. But more than that, I feel like my best chances of finding the perfect girl for me is not through ambitiously trying to court cute girls around me, but instead to wait for the signs that God/nature are sending me. When it is my time I will know it, I won't have to force it. Wanting to end this period of being alone and lonely pushes me to want to find love RIGHT NOW, which seems imprudent.

Experience has also played a major part in this. I've had four major relationships in my life. The first one started when I was rollerblading down the street and I saw a girl from my high school (I was 20 at the time) and we passed each other on the street and just stopped and talked. That was it, we were dating for years after that. My next two relationships were started by the girl, and my last one (my daughter's mother, who I dated for 7 years) was sort of like the first one where we just knew each other and it happened without any sort of initiative on either side. So I look back on my life and see that never have I ever accomplished anything by hitting on girls. The times I have have resulted in horrible situations where I decided to be courageous, went out and used wit and confidence to woo them, then ended up realizing I had just got myself a gold-digger or worse. I don't know, perhaps others will have different anecdotes to the contrary but the pattern in my life seems to be to just sit back and wait and don't screw up in the interim trying to chase them!
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
ESocialBookworm
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4/27/2014 12:13:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/27/2014 10:02:35 AM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
Idk if you want a females perspective on this, but I don't think a female should be the one making the first move. Nor should she just accept any guy either.

I don't see the problem in us making the first move. But I agree with your second statement.
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magiofthewest
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4/27/2014 12:54:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/27/2014 4:
I believe that in a society with true equality then it's okay for either gender to make the first move. Men can be just as emotional as women, while women can be just as bold as men. Your idea about players is a misconception. There are some good looking males that are players, but at the sane time there are some that just plain ol' nice guys and gentleman. Same can go with females. Some women just prefer that lifestyle of getting laid very often, whether it be a friends with benefits situation or a random Guy she picks up. Women want sex just as bad as men, they are just better at hiding it. Also, you should see if that girl is into you. You'll never know unless you ask, and if your just physically attracted to her then it's not that bad if she rejects you.
WheezySquash8
Posts: 130
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4/28/2014 3:30:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/26/2014 6:50:07 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I've found that, despite gender correctness, it seems to make more sense that women make "the first move" on guys instead of the other way around (or instead of it being equal). For one thing, guys are more attracted to looks while girls are able to put physical attraction aside and concentrate on things that are more important. As a guy, I'm "attracted" to just about every cute girl I see, whether or not they are actually a good fit for me.

How often do attractive females hit on guys? It almost never happens. Attractive guys, on the other hand, become "players" and hit on girls who are essentially below their price range simply in the interests of having a short-term physical relationship. So, as a girl, you need to be extremely skeptical about any guy that hits on you. They may not be serious about long-term (lowering standards for one-night stand) or else they may just be enamored by your physical appearance.

If a girl makes the first move, you can bet she has exercised some patience and considered more than looks. Girls are overwhelmingly more likely looking to make a family as opposed to just having fun (assuming she didn't pick you up in a bar of course!) and it seems to me to be the gentlemanly-thing to do to resist the temptation a guy has to try and get his hands on those irresistible curves!

What do you guys think? There is a certain woman in my life that I want to hit on that I don't, and I find myself very confused as to whether or not I should break the ice with her. I'm physically-attracted to her, and as for all the other stuff, how can I be sure I'm not just fooling myself because I am lusting after her? If she never makes an attempt at me, then perhaps that's a sign that she understands we are incompatible. Of course, there's that seed of doubt in there that eats at me, as I wonder whether she just wants me to make a move on her. Our culture is strong regarding guys having confidence and exercising that confidence by chasing the girl we want.

My best-friend and wingman has schooled me of the wisdom that girls will always give you a clear opening if they want you. It is often subtle, and if you aren't looking for it you might not be ready. Is this the way one finds the "right" girl? That is, by controlling lust (i.e., the urge to be flirty) and waiting for that legitimate opening? In the movies, it's always about the guy chasing and winning over the girl against her will but perhaps that's not the natural way we should go about it.

I believe that the guy should make the first move. Girls in my opinion deserve to be treated well by men. Even though I am shy, I plan on making the first move on the girl I like soon. :-)
Pacifist Since 3/12/14
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R0b1Billion
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5/1/2014 9:00:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I've thought about it, and I've come to the conclusion that it's neither the man's nor the woman's obligation to make the first move. I see my original wordings are insufficient, so I will restate my ideas here below.

The "first move" implies one person deciding they want the other, and deciding to act on that impetus. Now I believe that appropriateness depends on the signs you get from the other person that they are, in fact, also interested. Do they try to make the effort to get to know you? Do they make excuses to be near you or to talk to you?

I'm not exactly sure what you guys mean when you think the guy should make the first move, but I can say that if a guy approaches a girl without any signs that she is actually interested, that it's not a good thing at all! While some of you insist that it's somehow honoring the woman by doing this, I have found through experience that those people (people as in men AND women) who have ideas of special honor for women actually do so because they think LESS of women, not more. For instance, I've known men that would never hit a woman no matter what, and while they insist it is out of honor for them, they actually say that because they don't think women are as GOOD as men - hence, not honorable ENOUGH to be worth hitting, and needing to be handled with care sort of like you'd handle a pet. If women are indeed just as good as men, then they carry the full weight and responsibilities of men. The only truly honorable position to have is to refuse to attack ANY person, not just people of a particular gender. You can either be gender equal or gender unequal. There is no exceptions, and how we flirt is no different.

If a PERSON gives you signs that they are interested, and you proceed to he next level, that is natural and good. But if you simply decide you are going to try your luck without any sign that you are being invited, I think that is devaluing that person. You are not honoring their wants, you are imposing your wants upon them because you don't care whether they really want you or not, all you know is that you want them and you are going to take them if you can. People who devalue women usually have no problem with this because women are property, and having some special place for women in this regard is completely negative in my opinion.

My conclusion on the subject is that flirting should be a mix of signs from both parties involved, and which person actually breaks the ice is not that important, provided both are actively making the effort to seem interested. I might see somebody who I want, but if they don't make some small effort to show me that they are inviting me in, I'm not going to pursue them based on my own agenda alone.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.