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The Zeitgeist Movement

Threepercenter
Posts: 4
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5/3/2014 11:36:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Is this grass-roots organization the only plausible outcome for humanity?
We must become the change we wish to see in the world,"
-Gandhi
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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5/3/2014 11:59:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 11:36:45 PM, Threepercenter wrote:
Is this grass-roots organization the only plausible outcome for humanity?

no
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Threepercenter
Posts: 4
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5/4/2014 9:30:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 11:59:03 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 5/3/2014 11:36:45 PM, Threepercenter wrote:
Is this grass-roots organization the only plausible outcome for humanity?

no

What a well formed argument you've presented
We must become the change we wish to see in the world,"
-Gandhi
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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5/5/2014 12:04:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/4/2014 9:30:58 PM, Threepercenter wrote:
At 5/3/2014 11:59:03 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 5/3/2014 11:36:45 PM, Threepercenter wrote:
Is this grass-roots organization the only plausible outcome for humanity?

no

What a well formed argument you've presented

I answered a question you posted. We're not debating.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Threepercenter
Posts: 4
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5/5/2014 12:13:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/5/2014 12:04:10 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 5/4/2014 9:30:58 PM, Threepercenter wrote:
At 5/3/2014 11:59:03 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 5/3/2014 11:36:45 PM, Threepercenter wrote:
Is this grass-roots organization the only plausible outcome for humanity?

no

What a well formed argument you've presented

I answered a question you posted. We're not debating.
You posted an answer on a website called Debate.org and say we aren't debating. Do you have an argument for me or are u just responding with empty answers?
We must become the change we wish to see in the world,"
-Gandhi
airmax1227
Posts: 13,241
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5/5/2014 12:33:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/5/2014 12:13:53 AM, Threepercenter wrote:
At 5/5/2014 12:04:10 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 5/4/2014 9:30:58 PM, Threepercenter wrote:
At 5/3/2014 11:59:03 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 5/3/2014 11:36:45 PM, Threepercenter wrote:
Is this grass-roots organization the only plausible outcome for humanity?

no

What a well formed argument you've presented

I answered a question you posted. We're not debating.
You posted an answer on a website called Debate.org and say we aren't debating. Do you have an argument for me or are u just responding with empty answers?

Your question doesn't leave a lot of room for in-depth responses but I'll do so to the degree it deserves.

The answer is no, as others have said.

The reason for this is the following:

The Zeitgeist movement has existed for some time, and in that time hasn't gained a significant amount of traction. While it could be considered significant enough for some, it's hard to say if that will culminate as a grassroots movement necessary for the advancement of humanity. I'd posit that it isn't, nor can this movement be such a thing.

The second part of your question also implies that such a grassroots movement is the only plausible outcome for humanity, and I don't know why you'd assert such a thing. Perhaps if you provided some reason for believing this I could offer a rebuttal or even agree.

Finally, and on another topic (this is the only place I can respond to you since your comments and wall comments are blocked), you recently posted to my wall some things that I'm unsure why you think of me. If you'd like to discuss your perceptions of me though, I'm happy to engage you on that.
Debate.org Moderator
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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5/5/2014 1:05:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 11:36:45 PM, Threepercenter wrote:
Is this grass-roots organization the only plausible outcome for humanity?

I certainly hope not. That's awesome if the system of government they propose would work in the way they demonstrated, but I think it's more likely a serious step in that direction would lead to a dictatorship of experts.

These are people that would be more interested in sustainability then progress or social and economic freedoms. I'd definitely reccomend you debate this topic if you want to draw out some in depth criticism of The Venus Project mentioned in te Zeitgeist films.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,241
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5/5/2014 2:27:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/5/2014 1:05:14 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 5/3/2014 11:36:45 PM, Threepercenter wrote:
Is this grass-roots organization the only plausible outcome for humanity?

I certainly hope not. That's awesome if the system of government they propose would work in the way they demonstrated, but I think it's more likely a serious step in that direction would lead to a dictatorship of experts.

These are people that would be more interested in sustainability then progress or social and economic freedoms.

I tend to agree with this, and I think it's one of the biggest problems with the entire movement.

I'd definitely reccomend you debate this topic if you want to draw out some in depth criticism of The Venus Project mentioned in te Zeitgeist films.

I had actually been arguing with some friends about this awhile ago, so when I saw a debate about a "resource based economy" show up in the challenge period I jumped at the opportunity to take it and learn more about it (as my friends challenged me to) and to determine if my general thoughts on it were accurate. I didn't really do a lot of research (as I had hoped my opponent would clarify where my info was lacking) or learn much from it unfortunately, as my opponent mainly reasserted many of the problems I already had with it, and those went mostly unaddressed in the debate. In the end, my views on it were reinforced (though I'm willing to be convinced otherwise) and I haven't been motivated to debate it again.

But I agree with you, anyone asserting the value of this movement should be willing to debate each of its aspects, and I'd certainly be interested in reading such a debate.
Debate.org Moderator
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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5/5/2014 2:38:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/5/2014 2:27:00 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 5/5/2014 1:05:14 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 5/3/2014 11:36:45 PM, Threepercenter wrote:
Is this grass-roots organization the only plausible outcome for humanity?

I certainly hope not. That's awesome if the system of government they propose would work in the way they demonstrated, but I think it's more likely a serious step in that direction would lead to a dictatorship of experts.

These are people that would be more interested in sustainability then progress or social and economic freedoms.

I tend to agree with this, and I think it's one of the biggest problems with the entire movement.

I'd definitely reccomend you debate this topic if you want to draw out some in depth criticism of The Venus Project mentioned in te Zeitgeist films.

I had actually been arguing with some friends about this awhile ago, so when I saw a debate about a "resource based economy" show up in the challenge period I jumped at the opportunity to take it and learn more about it (as my friends challenged me to) and to determine if my general thoughts on it were accurate. I didn't really do a lot of research (as I had hoped my opponent would clarify where my info was lacking) or learn much from it unfortunately, as my opponent mainly reasserted many of the problems I already had with it, and those went mostly unaddressed in the debate. In the end, my views on it were reinforced (though I'm willing to be convinced otherwise) and I haven't been motivated to debate it again.

But I agree with you, anyone asserting the value of this movement should be willing to debate each of its aspects, and I'd certainly be interested in reading such a debate.

Me too, especially if somebody can do a great job defending that POV. I watched the documentaries like a lot of people I got amped up as I do when considering new ways to view things, but then I thought of too many obvious objections the film and even the Venus Project website simply ignores.

I seen Alex Jones interview the guy who filmed this and Alex Jones exposed a lot of it's problems. After seeing that, I'm like "damnn if Alex Jones can rip this thing to shreds, who can't?"
airmax1227
Posts: 13,241
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5/5/2014 2:51:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/5/2014 2:38:41 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 5/5/2014 2:27:00 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 5/5/2014 1:05:14 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 5/3/2014 11:36:45 PM, Threepercenter wrote:
Is this grass-roots organization the only plausible outcome for humanity?

I certainly hope not. That's awesome if the system of government they propose would work in the way they demonstrated, but I think it's more likely a serious step in that direction would lead to a dictatorship of experts.

These are people that would be more interested in sustainability then progress or social and economic freedoms.

I tend to agree with this, and I think it's one of the biggest problems with the entire movement.

I'd definitely reccomend you debate this topic if you want to draw out some in depth criticism of The Venus Project mentioned in te Zeitgeist films.

I had actually been arguing with some friends about this awhile ago, so when I saw a debate about a "resource based economy" show up in the challenge period I jumped at the opportunity to take it and learn more about it (as my friends challenged me to) and to determine if my general thoughts on it were accurate. I didn't really do a lot of research (as I had hoped my opponent would clarify where my info was lacking) or learn much from it unfortunately, as my opponent mainly reasserted many of the problems I already had with it, and those went mostly unaddressed in the debate. In the end, my views on it were reinforced (though I'm willing to be convinced otherwise) and I haven't been motivated to debate it again.

But I agree with you, anyone asserting the value of this movement should be willing to debate each of its aspects, and I'd certainly be interested in reading such a debate.

Me too, especially if somebody can do a great job defending that POV. I watched the documentaries like a lot of people I got amped up as I do when considering new ways to view things, but then I thought of too many obvious objections the film and even the Venus Project website simply ignores.


Yeah, I was initially very intrigued by the idea and so I brought it up with friends I knew were inclined to advocate for it. I found that they couldn't answer a lot of the issues with it, and those issues were too large to be ignored. I had hoped the guy who instigated the debate I had would address them, but he never did. Unfortunately, to date, I have yet to hear a way to address those issues (and I've watched and listened to a lot of the material). As much as I would like to believe there is a way to solve them, I am now quite skeptical.

I seen Alex Jones interview the guy who filmed this and Alex Jones exposed a lot of it's problems. After seeing that, I'm like "damnn if Alex Jones can rip this thing to shreds, who can't?"

I didn't know about that. I'll bet that was pretty interesting... I'll have to look that up. But yeah, I agree, if Alex Jones can tear it apart, it really can't be standing on a solid foundation.

As much as I like the idea of a restructured economic system that addresses the current models biggest problems, the ideas I've heard posited so far don't even seem in the realm of possibility. Fresco's designs and city development projects are fascinating, but they don't address the next steps in how the economy would actually be maintained and encourage society to be productive.
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Threepercenter
Posts: 4
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5/14/2014 11:09:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The Zeitgeist Movement's (TZM) proposed society would not feature any dictators, any police, any military, any monetary institutions, any money whatsoever, any governmental systems, not will it have a truly leading committee or counsel. TZM advocates for a society where machines, with Minuet amounts of human assistance, will manufacture all needed human resource and facilities, gather all materials required to conduct such mission, and maintain all life ground systems in place. Any notion of a communist system taking place are valid fears, as it appears that the objective of TZM are for that, but its obvious that TZM is operating under the auspice of sustainability and the total annihilation of human suffering. Any other concerns, PLEASE say them so that we can reach a mutual conclusion on said concerns
We must become the change we wish to see in the world,"
-Gandhi
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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5/16/2014 1:55:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 11:09:19 PM, Threepercenter wrote:
The Zeitgeist Movement's (TZM) proposed society would not feature any dictators, any police,

What happens to me if I kill my neighbor or wife?

any military, any monetary institutions, any money whatsoever, any governmental systems, not will it have a truly leading committee or counsel. TZM advocates for a society where machines, with Minuet amounts of human assistance, will manufacture all needed human resource and facilities, gather all materials required to conduct such mission, and maintain all life ground systems in place. Any notion of a communist system taking place are valid fears, as it appears that the objective of TZM are for that, but its obvious that TZM is operating under the auspice of sustainability and the total annihilation of human suffering. Any other concerns, PLEASE say them so that we can reach a mutual conclusion on said concerns