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Our society is too stereotypical

MysticEgg
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5/29/2014 9:46:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
...towards men. Think about it; now think some more. Do you agree? I don't know.

You see, there can be no doubt that the stereotyping of women in the media is far too common, and (consequently), the media benefits from itself by storming that issue and blowing it out of proportion.

However, consider men in the media, who are idealistically portrayed as toned guys with a pout and muscles with muscles. Preferably, shirtless in jeans and instagram filters.

The media doesn't seem too eager to pick up on that, though, even though it's more or less the same thing (perhaps slightly more subtle).

Thoughts? Feelings? Do we even care? Should we care?
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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5/30/2014 8:39:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/29/2014 9:46:33 AM, MysticEgg wrote:
...towards men. Think about it; now think some more. Do you agree? I don't know.

You see, there can be no doubt that the stereotyping of women in the media is far too common, and (consequently), the media benefits from itself by storming that issue and blowing it out of proportion.

However, consider men in the media, who are idealistically portrayed as toned guys with a pout and muscles with muscles. Preferably, shirtless in jeans and instagram filters.

The media doesn't seem too eager to pick up on that, though, even though it's more or less the same thing (perhaps slightly more subtle).

Thoughts? Feelings? Do we even care? Should we care?

No, we shouldn't care.
We should ask why women are affected by their portrayal in media but men aren't.
Men are either "manly men" or a giant doofus. Where are the 250 lb men crying they need to be represented fairly and appropriately in media?
My work here is, finally, done.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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5/30/2014 7:43:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Men generally don't care because our self esteem isn't so low that we are affected by how the media portrays men. Because we don't allow it to affect us, well then the media really has no power. After all the media only has power for as long as we are under it.
Nolite Timere
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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5/30/2014 9:34:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Why can't we wear dresses without being ridiculed in most parts of the world?
0x5f3759df
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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5/30/2014 9:47:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/30/2014 8:39:01 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/29/2014 9:46:33 AM, MysticEgg wrote:
...towards men. Think about it; now think some more. Do you agree? I don't know.

You see, there can be no doubt that the stereotyping of women in the media is far too common, and (consequently), the media benefits from itself by storming that issue and blowing it out of proportion.

However, consider men in the media, who are idealistically portrayed as toned guys with a pout and muscles with muscles. Preferably, shirtless in jeans and instagram filters.

The media doesn't seem too eager to pick up on that, though, even though it's more or less the same thing (perhaps slightly more subtle).

Thoughts? Feelings? Do we even care? Should we care?

No, we shouldn't care.
We should ask why women are affected by their portrayal in media but men aren't.
Men are either "manly men" or a giant doofus. Where are the 250 lb men crying they need to be represented fairly and appropriately in media?

Aren't those both harmful perceptions? You seem to be supporting the continuation of the dangerous idea that men are supposed to conform to some arbitrary set of notions in order to be men or manly.
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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5/30/2014 10:17:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
There are different types of stereotypes.

One is the type where you assume that a certain group of people are more likely to be a certain way, but if they are not who you assume they are, you simply acknowledge that he isn't and modify you assumptions slightly.

The second type is where you assume that a certain group of people should be a certain way because everyone else around you is, but when they are not, instead of modifying the assumptions, you resort to potentially damaging methods to avoid or change it.

The second type is distinctly different from the first. The first is useful while the second one is only useful if that "certain way" is good. The second type is irrational and the stereotype part should simply be skipped, directly for the "what should be" part.

It is the fault of the idiots that they subscribe to the second part, but it's easier for the media to fix it.
0x5f3759df
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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5/30/2014 10:34:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/30/2014 9:47:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 5/30/2014 8:39:01 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/29/2014 9:46:33 AM, MysticEgg wrote:
...towards men. Think about it; now think some more. Do you agree? I don't know.

You see, there can be no doubt that the stereotyping of women in the media is far too common, and (consequently), the media benefits from itself by storming that issue and blowing it out of proportion.

However, consider men in the media, who are idealistically portrayed as toned guys with a pout and muscles with muscles. Preferably, shirtless in jeans and instagram filters.

The media doesn't seem too eager to pick up on that, though, even though it's more or less the same thing (perhaps slightly more subtle).

Thoughts? Feelings? Do we even care? Should we care?

No, we shouldn't care.
We should ask why women are affected by their portrayal in media but men aren't.
Men are either "manly men" or a giant doofus. Where are the 250 lb men crying they need to be represented fairly and appropriately in media?

Aren't those both harmful perceptions? You seem to be supporting the continuation of the dangerous idea that men are supposed to conform to some arbitrary set of notions in order to be men or manly.

Perception =/= conformity
Why is media to blame for your desire to be like others, when they are merely portraying the common perception?

Imagine a scrawny 90-lb nerdy looking guy beating his wife for an ad about domestic violence. How does that image grab ya? It doesn't, it's almost comical.
So, use the perception of the blue collar, lean on the muscular side drunk.
My work here is, finally, done.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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5/30/2014 11:05:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/30/2014 10:34:32 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/30/2014 9:47:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 5/30/2014 8:39:01 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/29/2014 9:46:33 AM, MysticEgg wrote:
...towards men. Think about it; now think some more. Do you agree? I don't know.

You see, there can be no doubt that the stereotyping of women in the media is far too common, and (consequently), the media benefits from itself by storming that issue and blowing it out of proportion.

However, consider men in the media, who are idealistically portrayed as toned guys with a pout and muscles with muscles. Preferably, shirtless in jeans and instagram filters.

The media doesn't seem too eager to pick up on that, though, even though it's more or less the same thing (perhaps slightly more subtle).

Thoughts? Feelings? Do we even care? Should we care?

No, we shouldn't care.
We should ask why women are affected by their portrayal in media but men aren't.
Men are either "manly men" or a giant doofus. Where are the 250 lb men crying they need to be represented fairly and appropriately in media?

Aren't those both harmful perceptions? You seem to be supporting the continuation of the dangerous idea that men are supposed to conform to some arbitrary set of notions in order to be men or manly.

Perception =/= conformity
Why is media to blame for your desire to be like others, when they are merely portraying the common perception?

Then all we have is a cycle with no way to break it.

Imagine a scrawny 90-lb nerdy looking guy beating his wife for an ad about domestic violence. How does that image grab ya? It doesn't, it's almost comical.
So, use the perception of the blue collar, lean on the muscular side drunk.

It's still domestic abuse either way, and it's just as serious. It's attitudes like that that make people dismiss women raping men as if that's not an actual issue.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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5/30/2014 11:11:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/30/2014 11:05:22 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:


Perception =/= conformity
Why is media to blame for your desire to be like others, when they are merely portraying the common perception?

Then all we have is a cycle with no way to break it.
It's broken when people realize that stereotypes are not bad be they are untrue, but because they generalize and treat people as a group.
It's also broken when people stop following media and actually think for themselves.
It's also broken when people realize that TV is not real.

Imagine a scrawny 90-lb nerdy looking guy beating his wife for an ad about domestic violence. How does that image grab ya? It doesn't, it's almost comical.
So, use the perception of the blue collar, lean on the muscular side drunk.

It's still domestic abuse either way, and it's just as serious. It's attitudes like that that make people dismiss women raping men as if that's not an actual issue.

So, if you were planning a billboard to create awareness for domestic violence, would you go with the model that looks like he couldn't even open a jar of pickles? Is that prudent?
My work here is, finally, done.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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5/30/2014 11:18:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/30/2014 11:11:35 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/30/2014 11:05:22 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:


Perception =/= conformity
Why is media to blame for your desire to be like others, when they are merely portraying the common perception?

Then all we have is a cycle with no way to break it.
It's broken when people realize that stereotypes are not bad be they are untrue, but because they generalize and treat people as a group.
It's also broken when people stop following media and actually think for themselves.
It's also broken when people realize that TV is not real.

The responsibility of the media is to inform people, not deceive them, comfortably or not.

Imagine a scrawny 90-lb nerdy looking guy beating his wife for an ad about domestic violence. How does that image grab ya? It doesn't, it's almost comical.
So, use the perception of the blue collar, lean on the muscular side drunk.

It's still domestic abuse either way, and it's just as serious. It's attitudes like that that make people dismiss women raping men as if that's not an actual issue.

So, if you were planning a billboard to create awareness for domestic violence, would you go with the model that looks like he couldn't even open a jar of pickles? Is that prudent?

Educational outreach. Burly men have feelings too; scrawny men are just as capable of violence. So yes.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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5/30/2014 11:31:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/30/2014 11:18:40 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 5/30/2014 11:11:35 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

The responsibility of the media is to inform people, not deceive them, comfortably or not.
How is a stereotype deception?
Also, why is it the responsibility of the media?
Why does advertising and minor one-dimensional in TV, or any entertainment at all, have any responsibility to inform?

Taking this step further, should news forgo reporting stories that fit stereotypes?

Educational outreach. Burly men have feelings too; scrawny men are just as capable of violence. So yes.

Are you serious?
You would put up a billboard for the sole purpose of breaking a stereotype?
Instead of getting your message across (assuming the ad was the guy and the line "it's your fault I hit you" No it's not. Get help), you are going to make people think?
My work here is, finally, done.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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5/30/2014 11:39:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/30/2014 11:31:14 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/30/2014 11:18:40 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 5/30/2014 11:11:35 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

The responsibility of the media is to inform people, not deceive them, comfortably or not.
How is a stereotype deception?

You know what they say. Over-generalisation is a fallacy.

Also, why is it the responsibility of the media?
Why does advertising and minor one-dimensional in TV, or any entertainment at all, have any responsibility to inform?

Entertainment is a separate matter from news and information, though ideally, the best entertainment should still evoke thought.

Taking this step further, should news forgo reporting stories that fit stereotypes?

Depends on the facts.


Educational outreach. Burly men have feelings too; scrawny men are just as capable of violence. So yes.

Are you serious?
You would put up a billboard for the sole purpose of breaking a stereotype?
Instead of getting your message across (assuming the ad was the guy and the line "it's your fault I hit you" No it's not. Get help), you are going to make people think?

If that's the message I want to get across, yes.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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5/30/2014 11:47:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/30/2014 11:39:20 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 5/30/2014 11:31:14 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/30/2014 11:18:40 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 5/30/2014 11:11:35 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

The responsibility of the media is to inform people, not deceive them, comfortably or not.
How is a stereotype deception?

You know what they say. Over-generalisation is a fallacy.
Fallacy is an error in logic, it is not deception. Try again.

Also, why is it the responsibility of the media?
Why does advertising and minor one-dimensional in TV, or any entertainment at all, have any responsibility to inform?

Entertainment is a separate matter from news and information, though ideally, the best entertainment should still evoke thought.
For every character. Really.
So, in a historical piece, should their be black slave owners depicted in the Confederacy? Is that necessary?

Taking this step further, should news forgo reporting stories that fit stereotypes?

Depends on the facts.
Why?
If the story fits a stereotype, let's bury it.
If it challenges it, let's lead with it.

What facts are relevant?
Of course, the fact that facts (or other criteria) are relevant, is exactly why media is not to be faulted for using stereotypes.


Educational outreach. Burly men have feelings too; scrawny men are just as capable of violence. So yes.

Are you serious?
You would put up a billboard for the sole purpose of breaking a stereotype?
Instead of getting your message across (assuming the ad was the guy and the line "it's your fault I hit you" No it's not. Get help), you are going to make people think?

If that's the message I want to get across, yes.

So, you would sacrifice having a maximum effect so you could instill thought?
Think of all the stereotypes out there, and how they are represented.
If you goal is to fight stereotypes, then by all means, go for it.
But, if it is to stop domestic violence, why wouldn't you use a model that envokes fear to the most people (burly man vs. Steven Hawking)?

Let's create homelessness awareness, and have a guy wearing a nice suit and be clean shaven. That'll help.
My work here is, finally, done.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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5/31/2014 12:09:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/30/2014 11:47:53 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/30/2014 11:39:20 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 5/30/2014 11:31:14 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/30/2014 11:18:40 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 5/30/2014 11:11:35 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

The responsibility of the media is to inform people, not deceive them, comfortably or not.
How is a stereotype deception?

You know what they say. Over-generalisation is a fallacy.
Fallacy is an error in logic, it is not deception. Try again.

I clearly said over-generalisation is a fallacy, which it is. A reliance on stereotypes is comfortable, lazy, and limiting to thought. It's a pattern people fall into and, once there, becomes extraordinarily difficult to shake off.

Also, why is it the responsibility of the media?
Why does advertising and minor one-dimensional in TV, or any entertainment at all, have any responsibility to inform?

Entertainment is a separate matter from news and information, though ideally, the best entertainment should still evoke thought.
For every character. Really.
So, in a historical piece, should their be black slave owners depicted in the Confederacy? Is that necessary?

Should every white Southerner be depicted as a vicious slave owner? No. But that's the stereotype.
Additionally, as with some Jews in the concentration camps, there were some blacks afforded a position of power over the others.

Taking this step further, should news forgo reporting stories that fit stereotypes?

Depends on the facts.
Why?
If the story fits a stereotype, let's bury it.
If it challenges it, let's lead with it.

Why not take it on it's own merits rather than categorise it into a stereotype?

What facts are relevant?
Of course, the fact that facts (or other criteria) are relevant, is exactly why media is not to be faulted for using stereotypes.


Educational outreach. Burly men have feelings too; scrawny men are just as capable of violence. So yes.

Are you serious?
You would put up a billboard for the sole purpose of breaking a stereotype?
Instead of getting your message across (assuming the ad was the guy and the line "it's your fault I hit you" No it's not. Get help), you are going to make people think?

If that's the message I want to get across, yes.

So, you would sacrifice having a maximum effect so you could instill thought?
Think of all the stereotypes out there, and how they are represented.
If you goal is to fight stereotypes, then by all means, go for it.
But, if it is to stop domestic violence, why wouldn't you use a model that envokes fear to the most people (burly man vs. Steven Hawking)?

Why manipulate people's emotions when I can try to actually get them to improve by thinking logically?

Let's create homelessness awareness, and have a guy wearing a nice suit and be clean shaven. That'll help.

If it helps people break out of the ridiculous stereotypes they have concerning the homeless today, then sure.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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5/31/2014 9:47:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/31/2014 12:09:29 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 5/30/2014 11:47:53 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/30/2014 11:39:20 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 5/30/2014 11:31:14 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/30/2014 11:18:40 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 5/30/2014 11:11:35 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

The responsibility of the media is to inform people, not deceive them, comfortably or not.
How is a stereotype deception?

You know what they say. Over-generalisation is a fallacy.
Fallacy is an error in logic, it is not deception. Try again.

I clearly said over-generalisation is a fallacy, which it is. A reliance on stereotypes is comfortable, lazy, and limiting to thought. It's a pattern people fall into and, once there, becomes extraordinarily difficult to shake off.

You said the media's responsibility is to not deceive. How is relying on stereotypes deceiving?
Lazy in entertainment or marketing. Maybe. But also effective.

Also, why is it the responsibility of the media?
Why does advertising and minor one-dimensional in TV, or any entertainment at all, have any responsibility to inform?

Entertainment is a separate matter from news and information, though ideally, the best entertainment should still evoke thought.
For every character. Really.
So, in a historical piece, should their be black slave owners depicted in the Confederacy? Is that necessary?

Should every white Southerner be depicted as a vicious slave owner? No. But that's the stereotype.
That's not what I said, nor what I meant.
If a political cartoon were to refer to the Confederacy for some reason, you can bet the character would be white.

Additionally, as with some Jews in the concentration camps, there were some blacks afforded a position of power over the others.
Not my point at all.

Taking this step further, should news forgo reporting stories that fit stereotypes?

Depends on the facts.
Why?
If the story fits a stereotype, let's bury it.
If it challenges it, let's lead with it.

Why not take it on it's own merits rather than categorise it into a stereotype?
You said it is the media's responsibility to inform.
So, if by informing, it feeds a stereotype, is that not bad?


But, if it is to stop domestic violence, why wouldn't you use a model that envokes fear to the most people (burly man vs. Steven Hawking)?

Why manipulate people's emotions when I can try to actually get them to improve by thinking logically?
Because you only have 2 seconds to get your point across?
By this token, why not have a woman saying these things. Men are abused, too.
Hell, let's depict men as rape victims more often in advertising, too.
And obese children as starving.
And men as single parents.
And the guy in the wheelchair as a bully.
And a guy driving a Lexus and wearing an Armani suit living in a mansion on welfare.


Let's create homelessness awareness, and have a guy wearing a nice suit and be clean shaven. That'll help.

If it helps people break out of the ridiculous stereotypes they have concerning the homeless today, then sure.

Stereotypes are nothing more than categorizing, which is human nature.
Relying on stereotypes for everyday interaction is foolish, but is the media to blame for this?
No, stupid people are.
My work here is, finally, done.
MysticEgg
Posts: 524
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6/1/2014 3:37:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/30/2014 8:39:01 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/29/2014 9:46:33 AM, MysticEgg wrote:
...towards men. Think about it; now think some more. Do you agree? I don't know.

You see, there can be no doubt that the stereotyping of women in the media is far too common, and (consequently), the media benefits from itself by storming that issue and blowing it out of proportion.

However, consider men in the media, who are idealistically portrayed as toned guys with a pout and muscles with muscles. Preferably, shirtless in jeans and instagram filters.

The media doesn't seem too eager to pick up on that, though, even though it's more or less the same thing (perhaps slightly more subtle).

Thoughts? Feelings? Do we even care? Should we care?

No, we shouldn't care.
We should ask why women are affected by their portrayal in media but men aren't.
Men are either "manly men" or a giant doofus. Where are the 250 lb men crying they need to be represented fairly and appropriately in media?

I think we should care, although not necessarily in a "boo-hoo" manner.
Men are, but not as much as women. Indeed, if this weren't the case, advertising towards men would stop, as it wouldn't sell. But, advertising does work, because the way men are portrayed affects genuine men. I don't think it affects me, but everyone thinks that. This is called the "Third-person effect" - it does affect us, just to varying degrees.
On your third point: Bravo! I agree. Good point.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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6/1/2014 3:58:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/1/2014 3:37:39 PM, MysticEgg wrote:
At 5/30/2014 8:39:01 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/29/2014 9:46:33 AM, MysticEgg wrote:
...towards men. Think about it; now think some more. Do you agree? I don't know.

You see, there can be no doubt that the stereotyping of women in the media is far too common, and (consequently), the media benefits from itself by storming that issue and blowing it out of proportion.

However, consider men in the media, who are idealistically portrayed as toned guys with a pout and muscles with muscles. Preferably, shirtless in jeans and instagram filters.

The media doesn't seem too eager to pick up on that, though, even though it's more or less the same thing (perhaps slightly more subtle).

Thoughts? Feelings? Do we even care? Should we care?

No, we shouldn't care.
We should ask why women are affected by their portrayal in media but men aren't.
Men are either "manly men" or a giant doofus. Where are the 250 lb men crying they need to be represented fairly and appropriately in media?

I think we should care, although not necessarily in a "boo-hoo" manner.
Men are, but not as much as women. Indeed, if this weren't the case, advertising towards men would stop, as it wouldn't sell. But, advertising does work, because the way men are portrayed affects genuine men. I don't think it affects me, but everyone thinks that. This is called the "Third-person effect" - it does affect us, just to varying degrees.
On your third point: Bravo! I agree. Good point.

But why is media to blame?
If people didn't think X, media wouldn't reflect that, would they?
It's our fault, and we need to stop blaming the media for everything.
My work here is, finally, done.
YYW
Posts: 36,314
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6/1/2014 5:39:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/29/2014 9:46:33 AM, MysticEgg wrote:
...towards men. Think about it; now think some more. Do you agree? I don't know.

You see, there can be no doubt that the stereotyping of women in the media is far too common, and (consequently), the media benefits from itself by storming that issue and blowing it out of proportion.

The media portrays some women in certain ways, sure.

However, consider men in the media, who are idealistically portrayed as toned guys with a pout and muscles with muscles. Preferably, shirtless in jeans and instagram filters.

Woof.

The media doesn't seem too eager to pick up on that, though, even though it's more or less the same thing (perhaps slightly more subtle).

Thoughts? Feelings? Do we even care? Should we care?

This is only an issue to the extent that we make it an issue, and it is not an issue if we do not treat it as one because the media is one aspect of society and it's not the whole of society. The male and female archetypes media offer us do, for some, serve as baselines against which individuals measure themselves -but the choice to use that archetype as a baseline is not something that is forced upon us. It's an individual choice, and I think probably not a very good one: (1) those archetypes being used as standards against which we measure ourselves will lead to fatalistic self images, and (2) the relationship between the individual and media which individual's employment of those standards as metrics for themselves results in an insidiously precarious and generally unhealthy relationship between the individual and media. But on another level, I object to even discussing what impact "media" has on individuals because even that discussion itself lays the foundation for an individual-media relationship that exists as one of the latter's predation on the former and the former's loss of agency on behalf of the latter. Far better a use of time would be this: teach individuals to take responsibility for their own lives, to define their own standards for how they ought to be and build individual's character rather than rehashing dubious narratives victimhood.
Tsar of DDO
MysticEgg
Posts: 524
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6/5/2014 12:09:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/1/2014 5:39:50 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/29/2014 9:46:33 AM, MysticEgg wrote:
...towards men. Think about it; now think some more. Do you agree? I don't know.

You see, there can be no doubt that the stereotyping of women in the media is far too common, and (consequently), the media benefits from itself by storming that issue and blowing it out of proportion.

The media portrays some women in certain ways, sure.

However, consider men in the media, who are idealistically portrayed as toned guys with a pout and muscles with muscles. Preferably, shirtless in jeans and instagram filters.

Woof.

I just burst out laughing; I've no idea why. O.o


The media doesn't seem too eager to pick up on that, though, even though it's more or less the same thing (perhaps slightly more subtle).

Thoughts? Feelings? Do we even care? Should we care?

This is only an issue to the extent that we make it an issue, and it is not an issue if we do not treat it as one because the media is one aspect of society and it's not the whole of society. The male and female archetypes media offer us do, for some, serve as baselines against which individuals measure themselves -but the choice to use that archetype as a baseline is not something that is forced upon us. It's an individual choice, and I think probably not a very good one: (1) those archetypes being used as standards against which we measure ourselves will lead to fatalistic self images, and (2) the relationship between the individual and media which individual's employment of those standards as metrics for themselves results in an insidiously precarious and generally unhealthy relationship between the individual and media. But on another level, I object to even discussing what impact "media" has on individuals because even that discussion itself lays the foundation for an individual-media relationship that exists as one of the latter's predation on the former and the former's loss of agency on behalf of the latter. Far better a use of time would be this: teach individuals to take responsibility for their own lives, to define their own standards for how they ought to be and build individual's character rather than rehashing dubious narratives victimhood.

Thanks for that. An interesting approach, to be sure.
MysticEgg
Posts: 524
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6/5/2014 12:12:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/1/2014 3:58:06 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/1/2014 3:37:39 PM, MysticEgg wrote:
At 5/30/2014 8:39:01 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/29/2014 9:46:33 AM, MysticEgg wrote:
...towards men. Think about it; now think some more. Do you agree? I don't know.

You see, there can be no doubt that the stereotyping of women in the media is far too common, and (consequently), the media benefits from itself by storming that issue and blowing it out of proportion.

However, consider men in the media, who are idealistically portrayed as toned guys with a pout and muscles with muscles. Preferably, shirtless in jeans and instagram filters.

The media doesn't seem too eager to pick up on that, though, even though it's more or less the same thing (perhaps slightly more subtle).

Thoughts? Feelings? Do we even care? Should we care?

No, we shouldn't care.
We should ask why women are affected by their portrayal in media but men aren't.
Men are either "manly men" or a giant doofus. Where are the 250 lb men crying they need to be represented fairly and appropriately in media?

I think we should care, although not necessarily in a "boo-hoo" manner.
Men are, but not as much as women. Indeed, if this weren't the case, advertising towards men would stop, as it wouldn't sell. But, advertising does work, because the way men are portrayed affects genuine men. I don't think it affects me, but everyone thinks that. This is called the "Third-person effect" - it does affect us, just to varying degrees.
On your third point: Bravo! I agree. Good point.

But why is media to blame?
If people didn't think X, media wouldn't reflect that, would they?
It's our fault, and we need to stop blaming the media for everything.

I think you're partially correct. We do over-react with "boo-hoo media ruined my life" angle, they do tend to work off truth. However, all it takes is one lie or one misinterpretation in the right place - and everything's changed. It's interesting to think about, certainly.

((On a side note, do you know how to turn on notifications? I never get any ones for the forums.))
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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6/14/2014 3:19:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I believe men are stereotyped. Not all men like playing sports, working out, being dominant, etc. I personally think workingout takes too much work. I like being built, but not to extremes.