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China's one child policy

klkl47
Posts: 92
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6/1/2014 12:07:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Good or Bad?

I could probably argue either side and I lean to saying it was good and potentially pretty brave even though it clearly curtailed liberty.

Thoughts?
Haroush
Posts: 1,329
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6/1/2014 12:39:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/1/2014 12:07:30 PM, klkl47 wrote:
Good or Bad?

I could probably argue either side and I lean to saying it was good and potentially pretty brave even though it clearly curtailed liberty.

Thoughts?

Well, I don't feel like saying much right now, but I will say this, the one child policy would help out a lot in the ghettos of America. I guess I am a racist now... lol
klkl47
Posts: 92
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6/1/2014 2:40:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/1/2014 2:14:55 PM, nicraM wrote:
http://www.usatoday.com...


They lifted it.

It also allows two children for parents who themselves are each an only child. The new policy will allow two children for families where only one parent was an only child.

Yes because they are now having trouble taking care of their elderly. Part of discussion....
nicraM
Posts: 21
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6/1/2014 2:44:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I figured they would do with the elderly what they did with the secondary children.

Float them up a stream to a toxic waste site.

In all seriousness though, Asian cultures take care of their elderly but they can also partake in a thing called "wandering spirit" which is predominate in India.

It is where the elder relinquishes all possession and just floats around the country as a bum. Basically bumming food and shelter.
Defro
Posts: 847
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6/1/2014 3:03:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/1/2014 12:07:30 PM, klkl47 wrote:
Good or Bad?

I could probably argue either side and I lean to saying it was good and potentially pretty brave even though it clearly curtailed liberty.

Thoughts?

It's intentions are good, but it is being enforced horribly. My mom knew a Chinese nurse, who told her this:

A married couple were foing to have their second child. To evade the government, they hid in a rural village the last week of the wife's pregnancy. When the time came, she couldn't deliver no matter how hard she took, so the husband had to take her to the hospital where the nurse worked. They got the baby out and the head nurse told the nurse (who told this story to my mom) to inject alcohol into the baby's head and dump it in the trash bin. The nurse was too,scared to do it, so the head nurse did it herself, and went into the mother's room, explaining that there was a problem during delivery and they either had to save her or save the baby and they saved her. She was lied to.

This is such a cruel thing to do.
Crescendo
Posts: 470
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6/1/2014 3:24:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/1/2014 3:03:28 PM, Defro wrote:
At 6/1/2014 12:07:30 PM, klkl47 wrote:
Good or Bad?

I could probably argue either side and I lean to saying it was good and potentially pretty brave even though it clearly curtailed liberty.

Thoughts?

It's intentions are good, but it is being enforced horribly. My mom knew a Chinese nurse, who told her this:

A married couple were foing to have their second child. To evade the government, they hid in a rural village the last week of the wife's pregnancy. When the time came, she couldn't deliver no matter how hard she took, so the husband had to take her to the hospital where the nurse worked. They got the baby out and the head nurse told the nurse (who told this story to my mom) to inject alcohol into the baby's head and dump it in the trash bin. The nurse was too,scared to do it, so the head nurse did it herself, and went into the mother's room, explaining that there was a problem during delivery and they either had to save her or save the baby and they saved her. She was lied to.

This is such a cruel thing to do.

What a wonderful thing abortion is, isn't it?
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Defro
Posts: 847
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6/1/2014 3:26:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/1/2014 3:24:55 PM, Crescendo wrote:
At 6/1/2014 3:03:28 PM, Defro wrote:
At 6/1/2014 12:07:30 PM, klkl47 wrote:
Good or Bad?

I could probably argue either side and I lean to saying it was good and potentially pretty brave even though it clearly curtailed liberty.

Thoughts?

It's intentions are good, but it is being enforced horribly. My mom knew a Chinese nurse, who told her this:

A married couple were foing to have their second child. To evade the government, they hid in a rural village the last week of the wife's pregnancy. When the time came, she couldn't deliver no matter how hard she took, so the husband had to take her to the hospital where the nurse worked. They got the baby out and the head nurse told the nurse (who told this story to my mom) to inject alcohol into the baby's head and dump it in the trash bin. The nurse was too,scared to do it, so the head nurse did it herself, and went into the mother's room, explaining that there was a problem during delivery and they either had to save her or save the baby and they saved her. She was lied to.

This is such a cruel thing to do.

What a wonderful thing abortion is, isn't it?

That's not even an abortion, they just straight up killed it after it was born. What bugs me most is that they lied.
Crescendo
Posts: 470
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6/1/2014 3:37:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/1/2014 3:26:12 PM, Defro wrote:
At 6/1/2014 3:24:55 PM, Crescendo wrote:
At 6/1/2014 3:03:28 PM, Defro wrote:
At 6/1/2014 12:07:30 PM, klkl47 wrote:
Good or Bad?

I could probably argue either side and I lean to saying it was good and potentially pretty brave even though it clearly curtailed liberty.

Thoughts?

It's intentions are good, but it is being enforced horribly. My mom knew a Chinese nurse, who told her this:

A married couple were foing to have their second child. To evade the government, they hid in a rural village the last week of the wife's pregnancy. When the time came, she couldn't deliver no matter how hard she took, so the husband had to take her to the hospital where the nurse worked. They got the baby out and the head nurse told the nurse (who told this story to my mom) to inject alcohol into the baby's head and dump it in the trash bin. The nurse was too,scared to do it, so the head nurse did it herself, and went into the mother's room, explaining that there was a problem during delivery and they either had to save her or save the baby and they saved her. She was lied to.

This is such a cruel thing to do.

What a wonderful thing abortion is, isn't it?

That's not even an abortion, they just straight up killed it after it was born. What bugs me most is that they lied.

What a wonderful thing infanticide is, isn't it?
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klkl47
Posts: 92
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6/1/2014 7:04:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/1/2014 3:37:11 PM, Crescendo wrote:
At 6/1/2014 3:26:12 PM, Defro wrote:
At 6/1/2014 3:24:55 PM, Crescendo wrote:
At 6/1/2014 3:03:28 PM, Defro wrote:
At 6/1/2014 12:07:30 PM, klkl47 wrote:
Good or Bad?

I could probably argue either side and I lean to saying it was good and potentially pretty brave even though it clearly curtailed liberty.

Thoughts?

It's intentions are good, but it is being enforced horribly. My mom knew a Chinese nurse, who told her this:

A married couple were foing to have their second child. To evade the government, they hid in a rural village the last week of the wife's pregnancy. When the time came, she couldn't deliver no matter how hard she took, so the husband had to take her to the hospital where the nurse worked. They got the baby out and the head nurse told the nurse (who told this story to my mom) to inject alcohol into the baby's head and dump it in the trash bin. The nurse was too,scared to do it, so the head nurse did it herself, and went into the mother's room, explaining that there was a problem during delivery and they either had to save her or save the baby and they saved her. She was lied to.

This is such a cruel thing to do.

What a wonderful thing abortion is, isn't it?

That's not even an abortion, they just straight up killed it after it was born. What bugs me most is that they lied.

What a wonderful thing infanticide is, isn't it?

That is a horrible story. So sorry to hear it. Maybe the answer would be incentives to keep people from choosing to have more kids before they do. But oh lord we must be humane...
debateuser
Posts: 1,094
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6/1/2014 7:19:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/1/2014 12:07:30 PM, klkl47 wrote:
Good or Bad?

I could probably argue either side and I lean to saying it was good and potentially pretty brave even though it clearly curtailed liberty.

Thoughts?

Actually it is according to China's needs. You must realize that China has the largest population in the world and their cities are becoming overcrowded. If they did not have this policy, then the next generation of Chinese will probably have to live in the sea.

Secondly you know that for an economy to run, you need natural resources. For such a large population, you need an equally large resources. So the one child policy ensures that the Chinese continue to live according to their resources.
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nikidavis
Posts: 43
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6/1/2014 7:29:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I don't like it at all. I think a more reasonable option is having at least a 2 or 3 child limit. At the same time, it is helping stop overpopulation.
One day I saw a man walking down the street, and he walked up to me and said, "Did you know that humans are the only species who tear down trees to make paper, and then write 'save the trees!' on them." I was amazed, then everyone else looked at him and glared with annoyance. I was the only one that actually cared, about the trees, about the man, about the world.
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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6/1/2014 8:39:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The family planning policy has led to a plethora of socioeconomic problems in China:

-The problem of abandoned babies. Male babies are preferred to female, so families often abort or abandon female babies so they can 'try again' to give birth to a male. Also, disabled children are usually abandoned, too, so they can try to give birth to a 'normal' baby. Abandoned babies need care and attention, and this has imposed a huge stress on the state - they must pay adopters to keep the babies. (Some adopters do that only for the money...) This also breaks traditional family values and violates the principle of commiseration.
-The consequences of 'chaosheng' (giving birth to more than one child) are harsh. If they cannot pay the compensation (which is several times the average income of the area), the child in the womb is usually aborted. Since 2000, the abortion rate has been around SEVEN MILLION annually. It peaked in 2008 with 9.17 million. If the baby is born, and the parents cannot pay compensation, there are reports of government officials taking the children from their mothers and selling them to American adopters. This has intensified conflicts in society, hurt China's international image, and led to the breakdown of traditional family values.
-The ageing population is another problem. The birth rate has been at an all-time low (only 1.5 per thousand, like developed countries) because of the policy, and the death rate has also been on the decline because of improvements in public health. Thus the proportion of the dependent population has been rising, and the labour force has been shrinking. It is estimated that the elderly population will take up 28% of the whole population in 2040. Thus the state's spending on social security and welfare has been increasing constantly. The working population, which provides both labour to stimulate the Chinese economy, is shrinking. In the past, China's economic development was supported by a seemingly endless supply of rural migrant workers - Time once featured rural migrant workers as person of the year. However, the supply is diminishing, and thanks to the family planning policy, few young and innovative minds have joined the labour force. Also, as the working population is diminishing and a larger proportion of their income goes to transfers to their elderly parents (or even grandparents), the domestic demand is decreasing and this has an unfavourable effect on private consumption.
-The problems caused by only children. As China's economy is developing rapidly, with a middle class of 250 million, parents have more resources to spend on their child. Because of the family planning policy, the only child can receive most of the attention from his or her parents or grandparents, leading to the 'Little Emperor Syndrome'. That has cultivated egocentrism and, in turn, the children are lacking communication skills, have low adaptability and little AQ. This has led to more problems like drug abuse, bullying and 'hikikomori' (no, it's not just a Japanese problem any more). Also, as parents have extremely high expectations of their children, they do all they can for their studies - and sometimes, that includes extreme measures to discipline the children. There are many reports of children being beaten to death by their parents.
-The problem of 4-2-1 families. The two parents have to support the child and their four elderly parents financially, so their financial burden is enormous. Sometimes, the parents are unable to support their parents, who will thus have to rely on social security. This led to the breakdown of family values, include filial piety and the concept of 'yang er fang lao' (raise children so you will be fed when you age). 'There are three degrees of filial piety. The highest is the honouring of our parents; the second is the not disgracing them; and the lowest is the being able to support them.' (Book of Rites 24.25)
-The problem of 'shidu laoren' (old people who have lost their only children). From 1975 to 2010, 10 million only children have died before the age of 25. The parents lose their sole financial support, not to mention the psychological support from their children. Then again, they rely on welfare and social security, creating a heavier burden on the state.

Phew... If you still supported the policy and thought the (partial) lift was a mistake, I hope I've convinced you. :)
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klkl47
Posts: 92
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6/2/2014 7:19:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/1/2014 7:19:07 PM, debateuser wrote:
At 6/1/2014 12:07:30 PM, klkl47 wrote:
Good or Bad?

I could probably argue either side and I lean to saying it was good and potentially pretty brave even though it clearly curtailed liberty.

Thoughts?

Actually it is according to China's needs. You must realize that China has the largest population in the world and their cities are becoming overcrowded. If they did not have this policy, then the next generation of Chinese will probably have to live in the sea.

Secondly you know that for an economy to run, you need natural resources. For such a large population, you need an equally large resources. So the one child policy ensures that the Chinese continue to live according to their resources.

Yes that is why they did it. We know they have the largest population. Let's stretch the question a bit. How would it go over in the US were a similar resource situation present?
klkl47
Posts: 92
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6/2/2014 7:23:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/1/2014 8:39:17 PM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
The family planning policy has led to a plethora of socioeconomic problems in China:

-The problem of abandoned babies. Male babies are preferred to female, so families often abort or abandon female babies so they can 'try again' to give birth to a male. Also, disabled children are usually abandoned, too, so they can try to give birth to a 'normal' baby. Abandoned babies need care and attention, and this has imposed a huge stress on the state - they must pay adopters to keep the babies. (Some adopters do that only for the money...) This also breaks traditional family values and violates the principle of commiseration.
-The consequences of 'chaosheng' (giving birth to more than one child) are harsh. If they cannot pay the compensation (which is several times the average income of the area), the child in the womb is usually aborted. Since 2000, the abortion rate has been around SEVEN MILLION annually. It peaked in 2008 with 9.17 million. If the baby is born, and the parents cannot pay compensation, there are reports of government officials taking the children from their mothers and selling them to American adopters. This has intensified conflicts in society, hurt China's international image, and led to the breakdown of traditional family values.
-The ageing population is another problem. The birth rate has been at an all-time low (only 1.5 per thousand, like developed countries) because of the policy, and the death rate has also been on the decline because of improvements in public health. Thus the proportion of the dependent population has been rising, and the labour force has been shrinking. It is estimated that the elderly population will take up 28% of the whole population in 2040. Thus the state's spending on social security and welfare has been increasing constantly. The working population, which provides both labour to stimulate the Chinese economy, is shrinking. In the past, China's economic development was supported by a seemingly endless supply of rural migrant workers - Time once featured rural migrant workers as person of the year. However, the supply is diminishing, and thanks to the family planning policy, few young and innovative minds have joined the labour force. Also, as the working population is diminishing and a larger proportion of their income goes to transfers to their elderly parents (or even grandparents), the domestic demand is decreasing and this has an unfavourable effect on private consumption.
-The problems caused by only children. As China's economy is developing rapidly, with a middle class of 250 million, parents have more resources to spend on their child. Because of the family planning policy, the only child can receive most of the attention from his or her parents or grandparents, leading to the 'Little Emperor Syndrome'. That has cultivated egocentrism and, in turn, the children are lacking communication skills, have low adaptability and little AQ. This has led to more problems like drug abuse, bullying and 'hikikomori' (no, it's not just a Japanese problem any more). Also, as parents have extremely high expectations of their children, they do all they can for their studies - and sometimes, that includes extreme measures to discipline the children. There are many reports of children being beaten to death by their parents.
-The problem of 4-2-1 families. The two parents have to support the child and their four elderly parents financially, so their financial burden is enormous. Sometimes, the parents are unable to support their parents, who will thus have to rely on social security. This led to the breakdown of family values, include filial piety and the concept of 'yang er fang lao' (raise children so you will be fed when you age). 'There are three degrees of filial piety. The highest is the honouring of our parents; the second is the not disgracing them; and the lowest is the being able to support them.' (Book of Rites 24.25)
-The problem of 'shidu laoren' (old people who have lost their only children). From 1975 to 2010, 10 million only children have died before the age of 25. The parents lose their sole financial support, not to mention the psychological support from their children. Then again, they rely on welfare and social security, creating a heavier burden on the state.

Phew... If you still supported the policy and thought the (partial) lift was a mistake, I hope I've convinced you. :)

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. No I am trying to form an opinion that doesn't waffle back and forth. Because I am not sure what the alternative was? If starvation was part of the issue though, it would have called for extreme preventative measures.
debateuser
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6/2/2014 7:39:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/2/2014 7:19:57 AM, klkl47 wrote:
At 6/1/2014 7:19:07 PM, debateuser wrote:
At 6/1/2014 12:07:30 PM, klkl47 wrote:
Good or Bad?

I could probably argue either side and I lean to saying it was good and potentially pretty brave even though it clearly curtailed liberty.

Thoughts?

Actually it is according to China's needs. You must realize that China has the largest population in the world and their cities are becoming overcrowded. If they did not have this policy, then the next generation of Chinese will probably have to live in the sea.

Secondly you know that for an economy to run, you need natural resources. For such a large population, you need an equally large resources. So the one child policy ensures that the Chinese continue to live according to their resources.

Yes that is why they did it. We know they have the largest population. Let's stretch the question a bit. How would it go over in the US were a similar resource situation present?

In a similar situation , it might help if it were implemented in USA. But it has to be implemented along side other solutions too.
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klkl47
Posts: 92
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6/2/2014 6:19:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/2/2014 11:15:30 AM, BasicLogic wrote:
I wonder what would happen if china didn't have the one child law

me too
Varrack
Posts: 2,410
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3/6/2015 5:55:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/1/2014 12:07:30 PM, klkl47 wrote:
Good or Bad?

I could probably argue either side and I lean to saying it was good and potentially pretty brave even though it clearly curtailed liberty.

Thoughts?

Is China really that overpopulated? I think it should maybe be a three-child policy, and that babies that are born after that should stay with their parents, even if it's a violation of the policy. Taking away babies from a family against their will is pretty cruel.